Venturi tells the truth

[indyagent17]

It’s sad on defense it’s a scheme issue and how we make opposing wide receivers hall of famers. Check out the podcast on the fan. He lights into the issues and I didn’t like Bradley before but when you see the numbers I detest Gus’s philosophy! 

[Smonroe]

I like listening to Rick, very insightful.  But we have to remember what Gus had to work with and how well he’s done.  Yes, I’d love a more modern attacking D.  Not sure if the team is there yet.  
 

And Rick doesn’t exactly have a stellar career as a coach either.  Glass houses.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Can’t tell anything with this defense until the secondary is fixed

[jskinnz]

7 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

I like listening to Rick, very insightful.  But we have to remember what Gus had to work with and how well he’s done.  Yes, I’d love a more modern attacking D.  Not sure if the team is there yet.  
 

And Rick doesn’t exactly have a stellar career as a coach either.  Glass houses.  

I am going to try to disagree without being disagreeable because we’ve been on this site together for a long time and have always gotten along. 
 

But I really just disagree. I mentioned in another thread that I have a very distinct memory of Venturi talking about Bradley’s D when he was the Head Coach in Jacksonville as a high school scheme. It is not just a personnel issue. How many times did you see a tight end go 5 yards down field turn around and catch 3rd down conversion pass?  The short answer is too damn many. And that is at the heart of the defense against their starting LBs. The ease of which offenses convert 3rd and forever this year is remarkable. That is not simply personnel. 
 

And I think minimizing Venturi’s thought because his poor record is short sighted as well. He spent 40 years in the league - he has credibility.  And when making the case against Bradley’s D, he has stats on his side as well. 

 

13 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Can’t tell anything with this defense until the secondary is fixed

Complete nonsense. 

[1959Colts]

I cant find the podcast. Can someone please post a link?

[jvan1973]

3 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

I am going to try to disagree without being disagreeable because we’ve been on this site together for a long time and have always gotten along. 
 

But I really just disagree. I mentioned in another thread that I have a very distinct memory of Venturi talking about Bradley’s D when he was the Head Coach in Jacksonville as a high school scheme. It is not just a personnel issue. How many times did you see a tight end go 5 yards down field turn around and catch 3rd down conversion pass?  The short answer is too damn many. And that is at the heart of the defense against their starting LBs. The ease of which offenses convert 3rd and forever this year is remarkable. That is not simply personnel. 
 

And I think minimizing Venturi’s thought because his poor record is short sighted as well. He spent 40 years in the league - he has credibility.  And when making the case against Bradley’s D, he has stats on his side as well. 

 

Complete nonsense. 

I will also say to you,  you are one of my favorite posters here.   However. Venturi critiquing Bradley's defense is comical.   Bradley has had far more success than Rick as a DC.  Rick, should probably chill on calling his scheme as high school level. Rick was never considered a great defensive mind.   As bad as Bradley was as a head coach,  Bradley had more success..  

[chad72]

Just like it took a Bob Sutton playoff loss after playoff loss (big comeback for Luck vs Chiefs plus AFCCG where they let Brady convert 3rd down after 3rd down and then never got the ball in 2018 AFCCG OT), Andy Reid finally dumped loyalty in favor of Spags and the result has been 2 SBs.

 

I hope the leash isn’t too long for Gus Bradley for Steichen to realize it too late. Once Gus left Seattle, Dan Quinn led them to 2 SBs in a row as a DC. I guess we haven’t knocked on the division winner door yet for playoff games/losses to matter but the time will come.

[indyagent17]

We have quick db’s and we play 5 yards off. When do you get tired of seeing players catch passes underneath every game we play somebody look at the good teams. They get up on the line and make it hard for the receiver to get into his route. I’m sick and tired as well of being complacent to this BRADLEY has always been a very conservative coordinator. Quit blaming the players start blaming the philosophy. 

[indyagent17]

here it is 
 

https://omny.fm/shows/the-ride-with-jmv-podcast/former-colts-coach-and-current-colts-radio-analyst

[coltsfeva]

I like listening to Rick although I don’t like his self-promotion. 
  That being said, he’s correct in pointing out that there’s a pattern where top receivers burn the secondary. I think back to NE and how Belichick shut down Marvin by double teams and putting their top guy on Marvin.

   Last Saturday was a good example of one guy (Collins) beating you. That first touchdown was not a scheme issue but Cross not executing the defense. So, you’ve got to wonder how many issues were due to inexperience.

[Superman]

I stopped listening to Venturi a while back. It's just a hard listen for me, a lot of repeating, a lot of personal opinion passed off as absolute fact, etc. I don't even like listening to him on the preseason broadcasts. Just not my cup of tea.

 

But I don't care about his record as a coach, it doesn't mean he doesn't know the game. It was also a long time ago, people can learn and get better over the course of 30+ years. 

 

I happen to fully agree with him on Bradley's defense. People keep suggesting that it's all about personnel. It's a given that if you have a better defensive roster, we can expect better defensive output. Give Bradley Pro Bowl talent at DL, and LB, and CB, and safety, then yeah, we'll have much better results on defense. That's true of every team, though.

 

Within the structure of Bradley's defensive scheme, defensive output will always be limited by his predictability and stubbornness in calling the game. I don't care how good your secondary is, if you give 8 yard cushions and only play two coverages, good QBs are going to take you apart. Above average QBs will hurt you. My favorite game from Bradley was the Ravens game, because it was proof that Bradley can put together a different gameplan, based on the opponent. I don't need that gameplan every week. When we play Mac Jones and the Patriots' piecemeal OL, do whatever you want. But when we're getting worked by Derek Carr or Jake Browning, and we can't run a disguise or contest a pass, and we're giving up big plays? 

 

My point is that if your only rebuttal to criticism of Gus Bradley is that we need better players, then I guess that means it doesn't matter who the DC is or what scheme we run. The only answer is personnel. And I strongly disagree with that argument. 

[Smonroe]

1 hour ago, jskinnz said:

I am going to try to disagree without being disagreeable because we’ve been on this site together for a long time and have always gotten along. 
 

But I really just disagree. I mentioned in another thread that I have a very distinct memory of Venturi talking about Bradley’s D when he was the Head Coach in Jacksonville as a high school scheme. It is not just a personnel issue. How many times did you see a tight end go 5 yards down field turn around and catch 3rd down conversion pass?  The short answer is too damn many. And that is at the heart of the defense against their starting LBs. The ease of which offenses convert 3rd and forever this year is remarkable. That is not simply personnel. 
 

And I think minimizing Venturi’s thought because his poor record is short sighted as well. He spent 40 years in the league - he has credibility.  And when making the case against Bradley’s D, he has stats on his side as well. 

 

Complete nonsense. 

@jskinnz your posts always make sense, but I’m having trouble with this one.  I totally agree that the  Bradley D gives up waaaay too many 3rd and longs. 
 

But I don’t see how you can take his personnel out of the equation.  To me, it’s a matter of trust in balancing the aggressiveness of  the D.  
 

Was Flus any better?  IMHO, he was worse.   

[k9copinmd]

Rick has been blasting the Gus defense for a while. He makes a lot of good points about it that I tend to agree with.

 

[1959Colts]

Venturi really does make a good case against the scheme being very flawed.

[SOMDColtsfan]

Feels like DB's playing 5-8 yards off the LOS is a prerequisite for a Colts defense, no matter the coordinator. Tim Jennings come to mind? Was a whipping bag on here. Then goes to Chicago and is a pro bowler. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

He talks to much about his way is right. Saying Pittman should get paid TE money is funny. Saying that though I do enjoy the weekly segments breaking down keys to the game. Those are usually really insightful.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Listening to this now. JMV saying Richardson plays reckless like Luck was off the wall. That can’t be further from the truth.

[jskinnz]

3 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

I will also say to you,  you are one of my favorite posters here.   However. Venturi critiquing Bradley's defense is comical.   Bradley has had far more success than Rick as a DC.  Rick, should probably chill on calling his scheme as high school level. Rick was never considered a great defensive mind.   As bad as Bradley was as a head coach,  Bradley had more success..  

 

Likewise. 
 

I just think that Venturi is credible and his opinions on Bradley are 1) not new and 2) spot on. I know his record as a coach / coordinator is not great but doesn’t mean he does not know the game. 
 

I am a casual fan and can see the Colts D is easy to play against. Look at how bad the stats are and how mediocre the QBs they played against were. 
 

[MikeCurtis]

3 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Can’t tell anything with this defense until the secondary is fixed

Or a LB is added

Or a stud DE is added

[Goatface Killah]

The funny thing about this is if Rick Venturi was the coach right now instead of Gus, and his track record was anywhere near as poor as it was when he was here back in the 80s and early 90s, these same fans would certainly be calling him a * and demanding he be fired. And defense was nowhere near as hard to play back in those days.

 

I think people just call the guy who agrees with them a genius and everyone who doesnt is an *. 

 

The teams Rick coached for had like a 30% winning percentage when he was on the staff. And I believe he was like 1-15 as a head coach.

 

But he agrees with me so hes brilliant!

[Goatface Killah]

24 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

 

Likewise. 
 

I just think that Venturi is credible and his opinions on Bradley are 1) not new and 2) spot on. I know his record as a coach / coordinator is not great but doesn’t mean he does not know the game. 
 

I am a casual fan and can see the Colts D is easy to play against. Look at how bad the stats are and how mediocre the QBs they played against were. 
 

Not great? Its actually very bad

 

Hes never coached in the modern NFL. How would he know what works and doesnt work?

[superrep1967]

4 hours ago, Smonroe said:

I like listening to Rick, very insightful.  But we have to remember what Gus had to work with and how well he’s done.  Yes, I’d love a more modern attacking D.  Not sure if the team is there yet.  
 

And Rick doesn’t exactly have a stellar career as a coach either.  Glass houses.  

No, But he was an awesome coordinator.

[throwing BBZ]

28 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

 

Likewise. 
 

I just think that Venturi is credible and his opinions on Bradley are 1) not new and 2) spot on. I know his record as a coach / coordinator is not great but doesn’t mean he does not know the game. 
 

I am a casual fan and can see the Colts D is easy to play against. Look at how bad the stats are and how mediocre the QBs they played against were. 
 

 

 Where is the coaching?

 Rush 4, play deep, give them plenty of pitch and catches and blown coverages, and wait for them to overthrow some passes that hit us in the numbers. We had a couple all-time record defensive collapses last year. Ballard provided bad personnel this season, shows NO GIFT for Drafting DB's among other positions. Listen to the discussions going on regarding Belicheks genius dividing defensive game plans week to week, making changes at halftime and during the game. Bradley is a Ballard guy. He thinks he knows how to draft for this brainless D sitting at his desk chanting Ras, Ras, I gotta have Ras. We need Football Players that can run with their opponents. 

 Juju just got destroyed. His change of direction and long speed are big problems. Years wasted developing so many big receivers, de's, CB's, Ballard guys. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Rick Venturi’s view on Pittman is so silly. I hope he has a ton of explosive plays next year and proves him wrong. It’s  no wonder this guy failed as a coach.

[GoColts8818]

I see Rick Venturi as more of a reminder of how much more anyone who coached in football knows than fans do no matter how smart the fan is than I do some great and wise football mind.

 

Also normally when I title of insert name here tells the truth my first thought is that really means insert name here said what that person wanted to be said.  
 

Still I’ve made it clear I think the Colts should have moved on from Gus so I guess in these two cases I agree Venturi spoke the truth.  
 

The only two excuses you can give Gus is how young the secondary is and that he doesn’t have an elite pass rusher.  I can’t speak to how an elite pass rusher would change Gus’s defense except to say it would help.  However when it comes to the secondary I have no faith in Gus to change even if he didn’t have a young secondary because we saw the exact same defense the year before when he had a more experienced secondary.

[indyagent17]

2 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

Or a LB is added

Or a stud DE is added

We had Gilmore last year. How was the defense? Correct horrible we have fast and quick, defensive backs just like most the league does but look how they play man on man with us and look how we just have the after you approach if you can’t see that I don’t know what to tell you and you have been watching Colts football for long

[MikeCurtis]

6 hours ago, indyagent17 said:

We had Gilmore last year. How was the defense? Correct horrible we have fast and quick, defensive backs just like most the league does but look how they play man on man with us and look how we just have the after you approach if you can’t see that I don’t know what to tell you and you have been watching Colts football for long

I have been watching the Colts about 55 years, I am old an over the hill.....

 

I'm trying to understand what you are actually saying, which reading again, I still have no idea what you are saying

 

This defense is short a playmaking free safety

This defense is short a LB

This defense is short a stud DE

This defense is short another solid CB (I hope they use the first rounder on Dejean)

This offense very much needs a separation type, WR

 

I am not a fan of the current DC, 

I think we could do better, but we do need some better players especially on defense

 

What's your point again?

 

 

 

 

[VikingsFanInChennai]

3 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

I have been watching the Colts about 55 years, I am old an over the hill.....

 

I'm trying to understand what you are actually saying, which reading again, I still have no idea what you are saying

 

This defense is short a playmaking free safety

This defense is short a LB

This defense is short a stud DE

This defense is short another solid CB (I hope they use the first rounder on Dejean)

This offense very much needs a separation type, WR

 

I am not a fan of the current DC, 

I think we could do better, but we do need some better players especially on defense

 

What's your point again?

 

 

 

 

He says even when Colts had Gilmore last year and have quick and fast defensive backs this year like most of the league, DC's style of providing the cushion to receivers (after you approach) makes it easier for opponents to get yards and scores.

 

He thinks Gus Bradley defense would rarely work with this approach, even if you get a strong roster on the defensive side. 

[MikeCurtis]

Just now, VikingsFanInChennai said:

He says even when Colts had Gilmore last year and have quick and fast defensive backs this year like most of the league, DC's style of providing the cushion to receivers (after you approach) makes it easier for opponents to get yards and scores.

 

He thinks Gus Bradley defense would rarely work with this approach, even if you get a strong roster on the defensive side. 

OK....I can understand what you wrote

 

Again, not in love with Gus Bradley

 

We do need some added players

 

[SOMDColtsfan]

2 hours ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

He says even when Colts had Gilmore last year and have quick and fast defensive backs this year like most of the league, DC's style of providing the cushion to receivers (after you approach) makes it easier for opponents to get yards and scores.

 

He thinks Gus Bradley defense would rarely work with this approach, even if you get a strong roster on the defensive side. 

Why's this remind me of the scene on the movie Airplane where Beaver Cleavers mom interprets some "jive" 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

8 hours ago, indyagent17 said:

We had Gilmore last year. How was the defense? Correct horrible we have fast and quick, defensive backs just like most the league does but look how they play man on man with us and look how we just have the after you approach if you can’t see that I don’t know what to tell you and you have been watching Colts football for long

Until this team totally fell apart all we needed was 20 pts from the offense and we would have won the majority of the games first half of season. Then things fell apart.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

8 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

I see Rick Venturi as more of a reminder of how much more anyone who coached in football knows than fans do no matter how smart the fan is than I do some great and wise football mind.

 

Also normally when I title of insert name here tells the truth my first thought is that really means insert name here said what that person wanted to be said.  
 

Still I’ve made it clear I think the Colts should have moved on from Gus so I guess in these two cases I agree Venturi spoke the truth.  
 

The only two excuses you can give Gus is how young the secondary is and that he doesn’t have an elite pass rusher.  I can’t speak to how an elite pass rusher would change Gus’s defense except to say it would help.  However when it comes to the secondary I have no faith in Gus to change even if he didn’t have a young secondary because we saw the exact same defense the year before when he had a more experienced secondary.

Everyone always talk about a elite pass rusher and jags have one but yet they are close to the bottom in sacks.

 

Venturi is always says I told you or I have the experience. He is so annoying.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Rick can be insightful at times. He knows a lot about football but every time I hear him being critical of another DC or Head Coach, you know what I think of?

 

This:

1-31-1 = at Northwestern

2-17-0 = as Colts Head coach

 

He has 3 more wins than any of us on the College and Pro level combined. I would take someone like Chuck Pagano much more seriously when talking defense because at least he even had a respectable record as a Head Coach for the Colts as well. Chuck knows defense. 

 

[MikeCurtis]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Rick can be insightful at times. He knows a lot about football but every time I hear him being critical of another DC or Head Coach, you know what I think of?

 

This:

1-31-1 = at Northwestern

2-17-0 = as Colts Head coach

 

He has 3 more wins than any of us on the College and Pro level combined. I would take someone like Chuck Pagano much more seriously when talking defense because at least he even had a respectable record as a Head Coach for the Colts as well. Chuck knows defense. 

 

He brings an opinion to the conversation

 

Sometimes right

Sometimes wrong

 

Wait... that sounds like ME 

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

13 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

He talks to much about his way is right. Saying Pittman should get paid TE money is funny. Saying that though I do enjoy the weekly segments breaking down keys to the game. Those are usually really insightful.

he didn’t say he should get paid TE money. He said his production was similar to the top slot guys and TEs in the league and that the league valued that at around 17 million. He went on to say Pittman will probably make between top WR money and top TE/slot money. Which is around 21 million when you look at the math. 
 

I think he’s right when it comes to Pitt. He’s a really good possession WR but he’s not going to break the game wide open. I’d like to see him back. 

[Moosejawcolt]

16 hours ago, jskinnz said:

I am going to try to disagree without being disagreeable because we’ve been on this site together for a long time and have always gotten along. 
 

But I really just disagree. I mentioned in another thread that I have a very distinct memory of Venturi talking about Bradley’s D when he was the Head Coach in Jacksonville as a high school scheme. It is not just a personnel issue. How many times did you see a tight end go 5 yards down field turn around and catch 3rd down conversion pass?  The short answer is too damn many. And that is at the heart of the defense against their starting LBs. The ease of which offenses convert 3rd and forever this year is remarkable. That is not simply personnel. 
 

And I think minimizing Venturi’s thought because his poor record is short sighted as well. He spent 40 years in the league - he has credibility.  And when making the case against Bradley’s D, he has stats on his side as well. 

 

Complete nonsense. 

You can be a great foot ball mind and a bad coach. Being a bad coach does not take away from someone's football acumen.

[Shive]

14 hours ago, Superman said:

I stopped listening to Venturi a while back. It's just a hard listen for me, a lot of repeating, a lot of personal opinion passed off as absolute fact, etc. I don't even like listening to him on the preseason broadcasts. Just not my cup of tea.

 

But I don't care about his record as a coach, it doesn't mean he doesn't know the game. It was also a long time ago, people can learn and get better over the course of 30+ years. 

 

I happen to fully agree with him on Bradley's defense. People keep suggesting that it's all about personnel. It's a given that if you have a better defensive roster, we can expect better defensive output. Give Bradley Pro Bowl talent at DL, and LB, and CB, and safety, then yeah, we'll have much better results on defense. That's true of every team, though.

 

Within the structure of Bradley's defensive scheme, defensive output will always be limited by his predictability and stubbornness in calling the game. I don't care how good your secondary is, if you give 8 yard cushions and only play two coverages, good QBs are going to take you apart. Above average QBs will hurt you. My favorite game from Bradley was the Ravens game, because it was proof that Bradley can put together a different gameplan, based on the opponent. I don't need that gameplan every week. When we play Mac Jones and the Patriots' piecemeal OL, do whatever you want. But when we're getting worked by Derek Carr or Jake Browning, and we can't run a disguise or contest a pass, and we're giving up big plays? 

 

My point is that if your only rebuttal to criticism of Gus Bradley is that we need better players, then I guess that means it doesn't matter who the DC is or what scheme we run. The only answer is personnel. And I strongly disagree with that argument. 

I absolutely agree and I think the antithesis of Gus Bradley is Brian Flores. If you look at what that defense was last year, then look at what Flores was able to do with largely no-name players this year, it's mind blowing. Flores is a DC that is able to mold his defense around the players he has and accentuate their strengths.

 

While adding premium defensive players can always help a defense, the ceiling of ours with Bradley will always be limited by his stubbornness and lack of innovation.

 

The Raven's game actually makes me more mad than anything else, because it shows that he's capable of adapting and being creative, but chooses not to be 95% of the time.

[Moosejawcolt]

11 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Rick Venturi’s view on Pittman is so silly. I hope he has a ton of explosive plays next year and proves him wrong. It’s  no wonder this guy failed as a coach.

i totally agree with him about Pittman. I think he is a good receiver. I don't see any elite traits and there is no way I open the vault for him. Ask yourself this. When the D coordinator for the opposing team devises his game plan,, do you think he has on his board "need to shut down Pittman"? and I am asking that question with a fully healthy Richardson. I think Ballard maybe forced to sign Pittman because of his poor drafting in being unable to draft wr talent. I think resigning Pittman is more because o we have to rather than we would like to. Just saying. Let us say that Pierce had elevated himself , and I think his development has been stunted by qb play because of the style of game he plays, do you think they would be  resign Pittman? If we had a legit receiver in Pierce and Downs is show promise, I think they would eagerly let him test the free agent market. I think resigning Pittman is similar to resigning Taylor. I think they were in a corner because they really lack any playmakers on offence

[Smonroe]

I’m not trying to defend Bradley.  I would love a more modern and aggressive D.

 

But here’s what I wonder - if you’re the DC for the Colts and you see your defense get lit up in practice by Gardner Minshew and our WRs when you go press (or any non conservative variation), would you chance that in a real game?

 

None of us knows if that’s the case or not, but it kind of rings true to me.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 hours ago, Indianapolis-Colts-Fan said:

he didn’t say he should get paid TE money. He said his production was similar to the top slot guys and TEs in the league and that the league valued that at around 17 million. He went on to say Pittman will probably make between top WR money and top TE/slot money. Which is around 21 million when you look at the math. 
 

I think he’s right when it comes to Pitt. He’s a really good possession WR but he’s not going to break the game wide open. I’d like to see him back. 

Yeah and it’s a dumb take.