Colts suspend Tony Brown and McKenzie

[RollerColt]

17 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Of course the HC is responsible for in-game situations.   But if Reich wasn’t doing the right thing on any given issue, inside or out of the game, then it was up to him to talk with Frank.  To tell him he needed to handle things differently, especially Monday thru Saturday.   That’s what Ballard had to do.  If Frank had problems, Ballard was there to help him.  

For all we know, Ballard may have been talking with him and he was just not changing his ways. It could be why Ballard was okay and in lock step with Irsay on the mid season firing. 

[NewColtsFan]

13 minutes ago, stitches said:

There were rumors floating around that Frank didn't hold players accountable and that was especially true about the best players and leaders of the team. And this was shared/hinted/alluded to by some serious people in Colts media(Bowen, JMV, etc)... 

 

Of course no way to know for sure, but it tracks with how player friendly Frank seemed to be. 

All of those rumors poured out last year in a season where the Colts went 4-12-1.   That’s to be expected.   
 

My point is that the problem wasn’t so bad that we heard about this in 2018, 19, 20 or 21.    Only in 22, one of the worst seasons in history.    
 

Also, when the HC isn’t much of a disciplinarian, typically he has his coordinators and position coaches do that.   They can be the bad cop to Franks good cop.   
 

Either way, it all happened on Ballard’s watch.   He has to make sure there is accountability being handled.   And if not, it’s as much his fault as Frank.  The buck stops with him.  

[NewColtsFan]

4 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

For all we know, Ballard may have been talking with him and he was just not changing his ways. It could be why Ballard was okay and in lock step with Irsay on the mid season firing. 

I don’t know what Ballard was happy and neither does anyone else.  Even if CB opposed the firing, he’s not going to say so unless he’s prepared to be fired as well.   
But at that kind of press conference, the Owner and GM put up a united front,  even if they’re not united.   

[RollerColt]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

I don’t know what Ballard was happy and neither does anyone else.  Even if CB opposed the firing, he’s not going to say so unless he’s prepared to be fired as well.   
But at that kind of press conference, the Owner and GM put up a united front,  even if they’re not united.   

Thats my point, we really don’t know. 
 

I fully agree the buck stops with the GM. It’s their job to steer the team in the right direction. For all we know, Ballard and Irsay both made the executive decision to relieve Reich of his duties because the locker room was so bad. 
 

For the Colts, it didn’t matter what Frank did years prior. Last season couldn’t be ignored. And even Ballard expected to be fired at the end of it. 
 

I think what we’re seeing now is a zero tolerance policy because this is the last chance. It’s why he let Leonard go. He simply can’t afford to deal with locker room problem players this year and I don’t think Steichen cares to deal with it either. 
 

This is the type of Patriot Way the Belichick disciples should’ve been following: either do your job or you’ll be let go. 

[ColtStrong2013]

20 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

All of those rumors poured out last year in a season where the Colts went 4-12-1.   That’s to be expected.   
 

My point is that the problem wasn’t so bad that we heard about this in 2018, 19, 20 or 21.    Only in 22, one of the worst seasons in history.    
 

Also, when the HC isn’t much of a disciplinarian, typically he has his coordinators and position coaches do that.   They can be the bad cop to Franks good cop.   
 

Either way, it all happened on Ballard’s watch.   He has to make sure there is accountability being handled.   And if not, it’s as much his fault as Frank.  The buck stops with him.  

Losing changes a lot. Last year was obvious that Frank lost the locker room. He was also fired and Ballard wasn’t. He was also fired mid season this year, although the Panthers are a total disaster so no one can really use that as a reason to believe he had already showed signs of dysfunction. Ballard never shied away from accepting responsibility for last year’s results. He also is solely responsible for the hiring of the current front runner of COTY and things have obviously changed from an accountability standpoint… and a winning one. and to expand on that point, maybe it’s a sign that Ballard learned what was necessary for the growth of the team, which is all we can hope for regarding Ballard. Learning and growing from prior mistakes. 

[GoColts8818]

Well now we know why they were scratched Saturday 

[NewColtsFan]

23 minutes ago, twfish said:

So same logic, it’s irall Irsay's fault. I get Reich shouldn't be the catch all for every issue, but there is no way some of these issues would have made it back to Ballard. Ballard's job is not to micro manage a coach. If Reich never saw an issue with things then he wouldn't have went to Ballard. It clearly shows after this season that Reich was a massive problem

Apologies… 

 

But, for whatever reason, I’m not following you.  
 

It’s all Irsay’s fault?   Not following at all?  And all issues should reach Ballard.  No, you don’t want Ballard to second guess key play calls, but if he has concerns over accountability or how Frank is using personnel, the two of them should talk.  More communication is better, though you don’t want cheap second guessing. 
 

The GM and HC should talk multiple times every day.  The more the better.  I always got the sense Frank and Chris did just that.   But, for example, when Philly fired Doug Peterson, it was reported Peterson and Roseman hadn’t talked in months.  That was stunning to learn.  That shouldn’t happen.  
 

If Frank didn’t see an issue, but Ballard did, then Ballard should’ve gone to Frank.  And as I just wrote to another poster, if Frank wasn’t comfortable being the disciplinarian, then his coordinators and position coaches should handle that.   Accountability has to be handled by someone.  And if it wasn’t, Ballard should’ve been aware of that and spoken with Frank about that.  Ultimately the buck stops with the GM. 
 

Hope I’ve clarified.  If not, reach out, and I’ll try to respond again, though it may take time later tonight.  Things are going to get a little busy at my end.  

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

#leadership

 

And since it feels like there is lack of leadership on the roster, it's nice to see the coach taking the lead here and hopefully building on it for the future. 

Goodness gracious! 
 

If I read you correctly, you’re saying there is CURRENTLY a lack of leadership on the roster.    Based on what?   
 

On defense, you don’t think Buckner and Franklin and before his release, Leonard too provided leadership?  
 

On offense, you don’t think Kelly, Nelson, Smith, Minshew and Pittman provide leadership?   
 

 

 

[John Hammonds]

8 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Goodness gracious! 
 

If I read you correctly, you’re saying there is CURRENTLY a lack of leadership on the roster.    Based on what?   
 

On defense, you don’t think Buckner and Franklin and before his release, Leonard too provided leadership?  
 

On offense, you don’t think Kelly, Nelson, Smith, Minshew and Pittman provide leadership?   
 

 

 

Actually, I would say that the multiple suspensions this year suggest that there is a sense of leadership.  At least, if the players did something and the team didn't hold them accountable, I would take that as a sign of lack of leadership.  The fact that they're being held accountable is a sign of leadership.

[stitches]

10 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

Actually, I would say that the multiple suspensions this year suggest that there is a sense of leadership.  At least, if the players did something and the team didn't hold them accountable, I would take that as a sign of lack of leadership.  The fact that they're being held accountable is a sign of leadership.

I would half agree with this. The sense of leadership is emerging from the new coaching staff. And the myriad of suspensions to me is a sign that such leadership has been lacking in the last few years. 

[John Waylon]

I’m surprised the crowd who heralded Brian Decker’s departure as dark clouds on the horizon aren’t wringing their hands again connecting that to this. 
 

[John Hammonds]

1 minute ago, stitches said:

I would half agree with this. The sense of leadership is emerging from the new coaching staff. And the myriad of suspensions to me is a sign that such leadership has been lacking in the last few years. 

That could very well be.  At least, Saturday's interview with McAfee suggested as much -- that there was a culture issue with the team.  And after Reich's ouster with the Panthers, there were rumors of something similar there.

Do we know definitively?  Not yet.

What I do know is that I am glad that we are holding them accountable today.

[stitches]

1 minute ago, John Waylon said:

I’m surprised the crowd who heralded Brian Decker’s departure as dark clouds on the horizon aren’t wringing their hands again connecting that to this. 
 

I mean... most of the players we are talking about were taken with Brian Decker's approval. 

[John Waylon]

12 minutes ago, stitches said:

I mean... most of the players we are talking about were taken with Brian Decker's approval. 

I didn’t make the stink. I just witnessed it. In all of it’s deleted embarrassment. 

[jvan1973]

2 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

 

Shane don’t put up Ruth the same stuff Reich does. It’s been evident this year with all the accountability moves he has made.

If that's the case,  why did it take until mid December to handle?  This isn't a Reich issue 

[GoColts8818]

I am guessing the second move will be a corner who can play the slot.  Brown was Moore’s backup.

[JediXMan]

Most of the players think he’s the most annoying 😂 

[chad72]

Is it me or is this us caught with our pants down with not enough viable backup quality WRs for the outside once 1 of Pittman or Pierce get injured? Is this on Ballard? It is not like McKenzie played outside anyways. 

[throwing BBZ]

6 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Nothing is clear, Chloe, nothing.   
 

You're commenting from the outside looking in.   We only know a small fraction of what’s going on inside the team.  
 

If there was a Reich problem, then Ballard is just as much to blame.   He's the GM.  He’s responsible for everything. 

 

 Ballard the employee. Irsay has a voice in his business. 

Who could possibly doubt this?

 Irsay did say he was reluctant giving Frank a new contract. It All fell on him to make that decision.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Ballard the employee. Irsay has a voice in his business. 

Who could possibly doubt this?

 Irsay did say he was reluctant giving Frank a new contract. It All fell on him to make that decision.

Irsay gets seriously involved when it’s time to hire and fire.   But on a day to day level, the show is run by Ballard.  
 

Irsay is not likely talking to Frank about day to day issues.   Only when there are serious problems.   On a day to day level, the key conversations were between Ballard and Frank.   
 

Irsay’s comment about being reluctant to give Frank an extension is one of my least favorite comments he’s made in my 12+ years here.   It’s kicking the man in the rear after you’ve fired him.   It’s not only unnecessary, it also felt like Irsay was covering his own backside for why he extended him and then fired him.    It also felt to me like Irsay was making Frank the scapegoat for the disastrous 2022 season.   I think Irsay would’ve been better off not saying it.   It was very unhelpful IMO. 

 

[cbear]

Amazing how Riech is still getting dumped on. Based on what? Rumor, innuendo, internet chatter and still being angry about last year? He's been fired from Carolina mid-season. That should be enough to calm you people down. 

[NewColtsFan]

8 hours ago, John Waylon said:

I’m surprised the crowd who heralded Brian Decker’s departure as dark clouds on the horizon aren’t wringing their hands again connecting that to this. 
 

My issue with Decker leaving wasn’t that he left.   He wanted to go with Frank.   
 

My issue was after he left, the Colts didn’t seem in a hurry to replace him.  That caught me off guard.   I wouldn’t have predicted it.  
 

But the Colts seem to be very comfortable with how business is being done.   I’ve often said I’m wrong all the time, well, this is just the latest time.   I’ve had a couple of brain cramp moments the last few days, this is just the latest.  I’m sure there will be plenty more.   

[Painterman]

I'd say that their play could be considered "conduct detrimental to the team".

[Creekside]

 

 

Are the Colts obligated to make public the reason(s) for the suspensions?...Or are inquiring minds allowed to aquire that information via some NFL version of the Freedom of Information Act?

[holeymoley99]

I would guess they promote Chris lammons who is a slot corner who is more a special teams ace much like Brown.  No idea why Darren Hall hasnt been elevated all season even for a quick look.  If we have to elevate a WR for a week for Pittman would guess Tyrie Cleveland gets the nod over Ehan Fernea, bigger size and actual game experience. Montgomery settled down after his td drop.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

This change is so refreshing.

 

 

[John Waylon]

The team is probably rounding up a posse this afternoon to run these guys out of town before sundown… 

 

Whatever it is they did, it got them nuclear heat. 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

5 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

The team is probably rounding up a posse this afternoon to run these guys out of town before sundown… 

 

Whatever it is they did, it got them nuclear heat. 

 

It must of been bad. Wonder if it had to do with gambling. Maybe colts did something in the building after the Rodgers thing to catch anyone.

[stitches]

As much as my curiosity makes me want to know what exactly they did, ultimately this is probably the better way to handle it. Everybody who needs to know knows what they did, no point to add extra drama if it's not needed. 

[John Waylon]

11 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

My issue with Decker leaving wasn’t that he left.   He wanted to go with Frank.   
 

My issue was after he left, the Colts didn’t seem in a hurry to replace him.  That caught me off guard.   I wouldn’t have predicted it.  
 

But the Colts seem to be very comfortable with how business is being done.   I’ve often said I’m wrong all the time, well, this is just the latest time.   I’ve had a couple of brain cramp moments the last few days, this is just the latest.  I’m sure there will be plenty more.   

I wasn’t singling anyone out, and you were not definitely not alone in raising the alarm. It was an all-time oddball of a thread (it didn’t even get a pruning from the mods, it was one those that went sideways enough that it just culled from the herd entirely.)

 

If Decker wanted to go with frank that just raises a red flag. Frank himself shouldn’t have wanted to go with frank. Now I assume he’s out there in Charlotte still, sans frank, and now finds himself under the care of tepper. That clown show went to general expectations even if it was just a truncated version. 
 

But my original thought was not all pith, however. There’s legs to it. McKenzie and Brown are both new additions this year. They didn’t go through whatever process Baker was involved with here, and they’ve done something to the level that they have been ostracized this way… I won’t go as far as to say that Baker could have prevented this sort of thing, but it was indeed his job to attempt it…

 

It’s also troubling to me in another sense. 
 

There’s been a Ballard comment all season that has echoed in the back of my mind about Tony Brown. It was very early on in the season or even in the preseason. Ballard was talking about Brown and said “I want a team full of Tony Browns”. It had to have been at some point after we saw how truly bad Brown could be out there, because as soon as he uttered the words I stopped what I was doing and looked on in horror at the thought. The point, however, was not that he wanted a team full of that talent, he wanted more of the mentality and whatever else it was that Brown brought to the table. 
 

Which turns out to include… whatever this situation is. 
 

Hopefully our GM doesn’t realize his dream of having a team full of guys like that…

[John Waylon]

16 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

It must of been bad. Wonder if it had to do with gambling. Maybe colts did something in the building after the Rodgers thing to catch anyone.

I tend to think not at this point. The league would need to be notified and involved. If a team tried to keep such an infraction from the league and letting the league handle it there would be major problems. It would look like the team was trying to cover for the players and keep it from becoming a(nother) national story, and that’s gonna make the team look worse in the end than simply saying “we got a couple more * here, drop the hammer on them”. 
 

Whatever they did was localized enough to the facility that the league didn’t have the authority to act. 

[cdgacoltsfan]

Not sure if true but I've read they shot and killed exotic birds including bald eagles on some hunting trip....... I read this online so it has to be true.

[smittywerb]

Whatever they did, must’ve been bad. But at least it’s being handled.

[RollerColt]

My guess, and again it’s a guess: they decided to dabble in a substance that is now legal in Ohio but definitely not legal in Indiana. 
 

Let me tell ya, you can smell that stuff everywhere in Cincinnati now. 

[Solid84]

Eh, they're backups...

[John Waylon]

17 minutes ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Not sure if true but I've read they shot and killed exotic birds including bald eagles on some hunting trip....... I read this online so it has to be true.

That seems sus. That would be a felony and prompt an investigation from local government agencies, and their punishment would be reliant on the findings of that investigation. 
 

Whatever has gone on does not seem to be something involving legal reprimand of any sort and that leads me to believe this is something entirely internal.
 

The punishment does not fit the crime of being late to practice/meetings, or even skipping one entirely. With the lack of any outside involvement whatever went on it had to be egregious within the football setting. 

[Superman]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

As much as my curiosity makes me want to know what exactly they did, ultimately this is probably the better way to handle it. Everybody who needs to know knows what they did, no point to add extra drama if it's not needed. 

 

I think it will come out in time.

[Superman]

52 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

It’s also troubling to me in another sense. 
 

There’s been a Ballard comment all season that has echoed in the back of my mind about Tony Brown. It was very early on in the season or even in the preseason. Ballard was talking about Brown and said “I want a team full of Tony Browns”. It had to have been at some point after we saw how truly bad Brown could be out there, because as soon as he uttered the words I stopped what I was doing and looked on in horror at the thought. The point, however, was not that he wanted a team full of that talent, he wanted more of the mentality and whatever else it was that Brown brought to the table. 
 

Which turns out to include… whatever this situation is. 
 

Hopefully our GM doesn’t realize his dream of having a team full of guys like that…

 

Does this mean how bad Brown could be as a player on the field? Or are you talking about other rumors about Brown's personality?

[John Waylon]

Just now, Superman said:

 

Does this mean how bad Brown could be as a player on the field? Or are you talking about other rumors about Brown's personality?

Player on the field. I can’t remember exactly when Ballard said it, but it caught my ear. It may have been early in the season after he’d started one of those games and got absolutely rolled out there. It was an impassioned defense from Ballard of Brown. 

 

It speaks to what Ballard appears to want in his players. He definitely was not talking about Brown as a player. He was making the point of how he was a dog (that may have even been the exact verbiage,) and he wished everyone on the team had his mentality. Brown has very much been a Ballard guy. 
 

Other than whatever has gone on here I haven’t heard any rumors about Brown’s personality, so I cannot speak to any of that. I had honestly just hoped that he was a good teammate and good for the team with the way Ballard stood up for him, even if he was a complete liability once he entered a game. But there’s definitely something else going on as well. It makes me look at the video where the players repeatedly said he was one they wouldn’t want to sit next to on a long flight differently as well. Even as tongue-in-cheek as that was, his name coming up repeatedly in those answers is curious. 

[John Waylon]

Here’s Ballard gushing about Brown prior to the season. Though this is not the exact comment I am referencing, it still clearly establishes Ballard’s love of Tony Brown. 
 

https://www.colts.com/news/general-manager-chris-ballard-cornerbacks-kenny-moore-regular-season

 

I’m trying to find the exact quote, but I can’t seem to right this moment. It had to have been after one of those really bad games from Brown because the answer stood out. In the worst way.