Alec Pierce

[JediXMan]

I wonder what his stats would be at this point with AR instead of Minshew. Let’s see what he can do when he gets back next season.

[w87r]

17 minutes ago, JediXMan said:

I wonder what his stats would be at this point with AR instead of Minshew. Let’s see what he can do when he gets back next season.

This is what I was getting ready to post.

 

 

Let's see what he can do when we are focusing on getting the ball a little more vertical.

 

 

He is clearly explosive. 22nd in league in yards per catch. 14.7.

 

 

That's more than:

Waddle

Nacua

AJ Brown

DJ Moore

CeeDee Lamb

 

to name a few.

 

 

Just needs some more targets. He needs to step up his game a little too though.

[JediXMan]

6 minutes ago, w87r said:

This is what I was getting ready to post.

 

 

Let's see what he can do when we are focusing on getting the ball a little more vertical.

 

 

He is clearly explosive. 22nd in league in yards per catch. 14.7.

 

 

That's more than:

Waddle

Nacua

AJ Brown

DJ Moore

CeeDee Lamb

 

to name a few.

 

 

Just needs some more targets. He needs to step up his game a little too though.

He also has to be near top of the NFL in DPIs drawn.

[w87r]

1 hour ago, JediXMan said:

He also has to be near top of the NFL in DPIs drawn.

Great point, I've been looking for a stat/ranking on them but empty so far, but he definitely draws a few.

[DiogoSales]

4 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

I am writing him off.  I’d be pleasantly surprised if he figures it out next year but I’ve seen this movie before.  He’s shown little to nothing to give you hope.  I know Reggie didn’t do a lot his first two years but a lot of that was playing time, especially his second year when he was behind Ismil.  When he got to play he showed signs to the point the Colts felt conformable rolling with him as the starter his third year.  I am not seeing that at all with Pierce.  He reminds me a lot of Dorrsett in terms of waiting for it to click but it’s not.  

And even this situation is not comparable (Reggie). That was another era, things change faster now, you need to produce at your rookie contract, year 3 is too late even if we don't like to admit.

 

Pittman showed more in year 1 and a lot more in year 2 and we still don't have a unanimous opinion of him being a true WR1, he's also a 2nd rounder.

[GoColts8818]

9 minutes ago, DiogoSales said:

And even this situation is not comparable (Reggie). That was another era, things change faster now, you need to produce at your rookie contract, year 3 is too late even if we don't like to admit.

 

Pittman showed more in year 1 and a lot more in year 2 and we still don't have a unanimous opinion of him being a true WR1, he's also a 2nd rounder.

Yeah normally by now you see signs if a guy can or can’t play in the league.  However you feel about Pittman there was denying after his rookie season that he could play in the NFL.  I feel like that is still a legit question about Pierce.  Yes like any player he makes a play here or there, that’s going to happen when you get starter reps in the NFL, he doesn’t do it enough though.  You go chunks of games at a time without noticing him.

[Superman]

9 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

You go chunks of games at a time without noticing him.

 

So does Gardner Minshew...

[husker61]

If he is running deep routs most of the time and you have a qb that doesn’t have the arm to make I lot of those throws, it that his fault? The colts qb can make a long pass that is lofted up, but most long pass routs need that strong arm to complete. How many times have the colts completed or thrown a deep out? That should tell you everything!

[husker61]

6 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

So does Gardner Minshew...

or colt linebackers.

[GoColts8818]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

So does Gardner Minshew...

Difference is I expect Minshew to be a backup level player, also it’s not like Pierce was performing well when Richardson was in there if anything he’s been more productive when Minshew was in there so I don’t buy it’s a QB problem especially when Pittman and Downs have both produced with both Richardson and Minshew.

[holeymoley99]

Thing that concerns me honestly is how many time he has his hands on the ball but fails to bring it in, doesnt matter who is throwing it in that situation he has not brought it in like I had hoped he would by now. Hope it improves but think we need to bring in serious competition for the spot. 

[Superman]

1 hour ago, GoColts8818 said:

Difference is I expect Minshew to be a backup level player, also it’s not like Pierce was performing well when Richardson was in there if anything he’s been more productive when Minshew was in there so I don’t buy it’s a QB problem especially when Pittman and Downs have both produced with both Richardson and Minshew.

 

I'm not attempting to absolve Pierce of any responsibility, or lay all blame at Minshew's feet. Pierce needs to play better, he needs to run routes better, etc. But I watch the games, and I watch some all 22, and anyone who says that Pierce doesn't get open is flat out wrong, bottom line. I have screenshots to prove it. Between the scheme, and Minshew's limitations, there are a lot of missed opportunities to get Pierce the ball. So while he needs to play better, it's also not all on him.

[GoColts8818]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I'm not attempting to absolve Pierce of any responsibility, or lay all blame at Minshew's feet. Pierce needs to play better, he needs to run routes better, etc. But I watch the games, and I watch some all 22, and anyone who says that Pierce doesn't get open is flat out wrong, bottom line. I have screenshots to prove it. Between the scheme, and Minshew's limitations, there are a lot of missed opportunities to get Pierce the ball. So while he needs to play better, it's also not all on him.

Yet other WRs have put up numbers with whoever the QB is and he’s not.  There is a common problem here.  He’s not producing however people try to spin it.  This isn’t last year where all the WRs struggled because of the QB play.  I will agree Minshew is never going to be confused with Peyton Manning or Andrew Luck but he’s still able to get the ball to Pittman and Downs, heck even Montgomery has produced more since Pittman went down than Pierce, when the Colts need him the most.  
 

Even when Pierce does get chances he has issues with drops.  You could tell on Sunday there was a clear effort to get Pierce the ball and yet he ended up with three catches on seven targets for 30 yards.  

 

There is no way around it.  He’s been a disappointment.  I am not here to burry Alec Pierce or be right about my opinion of him.  I hope he turns it around, I really do.  I just don’t expect it.  I want to be wrong about him and have him turn into the second WR the Colts desperately need.  Like I said he reminds me a lot Dorrsett in terms of you are just waiting for him to put it together and sometimes, like with Dorrsett that just doesn’t happen.  

[smittywerb]

Idk man, even when minshew threw to Pierce last game and the ball was catchable, he just don’t come down with it.

 

the most egregious one was when minshew threw a dime to him, one on one coverage, has separation, and it goes right through his hands.

 

its a curious case for him.  It’s either:

- he’s shown flashes and that he can become what we need him to be

- he’s not being utilized and thrown to

- he flat out fails.  Whether not getting open or dropping the ball.

 

 

[Zoltan]

13 hours ago, JediXMan said:

I wonder what his stats would be at this point with AR instead of Minshew. Let’s see what he can do when he gets back next season.

AR isn't gonna give him better hands, if anything AR throws the ball faster which can make it harder to catch.

[runthepost]

He’s not good enough, if we have a top 20 pick during the draft we need a WR

[2006Coltsbestever]

WR - Rome Odzune should be our pick. He is projected to go mid to late 1st round. 6'3 210 pounds, 4.4 speed. He is strong and fast, good hands, and can even run on trick running plays. He reminds me of DJ Metcalf. That would be a hell of weapon to add.

[chad72]

3 hours ago, runthepost said:

He’s not good enough, if we have a top 20 pick during the draft we need a WR

 

Yeah, since the WR depth is deep in this draft, even if we move back to the top of the 2nd, we should still get a quality outside one because I doubt that either Nabers or Odunze will get past the Top 12, where we will be picking, in the late teens.

[Superman]

11 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

Yet other WRs have put up numbers with whoever the QB is and he’s not.

 

Minshew throws them the ball. First thing to acknowledge is that our entire passing game is schemed to feed Pittman. When we're not forcing the ball to Pittman, it's Downs working against zones. And everything else is leftover crumbs.

 

Quote

You could tell on Sunday there was a clear effort to get Pierce the ball

 

No there wasn't. Aside from his drop, he mostly got trash targets late in the down, including overthrown balls, and plays on which he drew flags.

 

Quote

He’s been a disappointment.  

 

I'm not arguing that. What I'm arguing is this myth that he doesn't get open. He does, and Minshew doesn't throw him the ball. 

[NewColtsFan]

I find all the Pierce talk interesting.   
 

I think we’re all about to find out two things….    One, how much input Steichen has, and two, how much Ballard tries to cater to what his head coach wants.   
 

And if Steichen and Ballard decide to move on from Pierce I believe it’ll happen in one of two ways….    
 

Either it’ll be a straight trade one disappointing player is swapped for another where both teams think maybe a change will do both players some good. 
 

OR…..

 

Pierce will get packaged….   Pierce and a pick will be traded for a better pick.   So perhaps Pierce and a 6 for a 5 or possibly a 4 if the Colts get lucky.   But either trade might not happen until March at the earliest or perhaps as late as the draft.   
 

 

 

[Superman]

17 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I find all the Pierce talk interesting.   
 

I think we’re all about to find out two things….    One, how much input Steichen has, and two, how much Ballard tries to cater to what his head coach wants.   
 

And if Steichen and Ballard decide to move on from Pierce I believe it’ll happen in one of two ways….    
 

Either it’ll be a straight trade one disappointing player is swapped for another where both teams think maybe a change will do both players some good. 
 

OR…..

 

Pierce will get packaged….   Pierce and a pick will be traded for a better pick.   So perhaps Pierce and a 6 for a 5 or possibly a 4 if the Colts get lucky.   But either trade might not happen until March at the earliest or perhaps as late as the draft.   

 

I'd be surprised if they move on from him, but I fully expect them to add to the WR room in a meaningful way.

[NewColtsFan]

12 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I'd be surprised if they move on from him, but I fully expect them to add to the WR room in a meaningful way.

Well….   If the Colts spend a one to draft a top WR, or trade their one for an established WR like the Eagles did with Brown then I think that will tell us what Steichen thinks of our WR room and that Ballard is trying to give Steichen what he wants.   
 

For years, I think many thought all these tall WR’s the Colts drafted or signed were a Ballard thing.   I believe they were a Reich thing.   I think the selection of the 5’9” Downs supports that.  
 

If he had his way, I think Ballard would go after more pass rush in the first.  So if he doesn’t I think that shows how CB tries to give his HC what he wants.  
 

Just an observation….  

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Well….   If the Colts spend a one to draft a top WR, or trade their one for an established WR like the Eagles did with Brown then I think that will tell us what Steichen thinks of our WR room and that Ballard is trying to give Steichen what he wants.   
 

For years, I think many thought all these tall WR’s the Colts drafted or signed were a Ballard thing.   I believe they were a Reich thing.   I think the selection of the 5’9” Downs supports that.  
 

If he had his way, I think Ballard would go after more pass rush in the first.  So if he doesn’t I think that shows how CB tries to give his HC what he wants.  
 

Just an observation….  

 

I agree with the bolded to an extent. I just think anyone with eyes should be aware that our WR room needs to be upgraded, so I would expect both Steichen and Ballard to be interested in adding better players there. But I'm not expecting our 2024 first rounder to be spent on a WR...

 

Regarding tall WRs, I do think that's a Ballard thing to a large extent. Not that Reich wasn't on board, but Ballard and Co. are obviously heavily influenced by RAS, and height/length play a significant role in RAS scores. If not for Downs having special traits outside of size, we probably don't draft him, and even then it took Reggie Wayne pounding the table for him.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I think we keep Pierce and draft another WR, more the merrier. It is a WR league after all right?

[Superman]

7 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think we keep Pierce and draft another WR, more the merrier. It is a WR league after all right?

 

It's arguably the thinnest position on the roster. At cut down day we had three WRs -- Pittman, Pierce, and Downs. Most of the year, Pittman and Pierce have played > 95% of snaps. I thought McKenzie should get more reps, but now he's not even with the team; no one else has a legit case for even being active on game day.

 

Even if we loved our top three, we need more guys who can play WR on Sundays.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

It's arguably the thinnest position on the roster. At cut down day we had three WRs -- Pittman, Pierce, and Downs. Most of the year, Pittman and Pierce have played > 95% of snaps. I thought McKenzie should get more reps, but now he's not even with the team; no one else has a legit case for even being active on game day.

 

Even if we loved our top three, we need more guys who can play WR on Sundays.

I agree 100%. I love that kid Odzune out of Washington. Harrison and Nabors will be gone IMO before we pick. Odzune might be gone but if he is there, that would be a nice pick. 

[Superman]

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I agree 100%. I love that kid Odzune out of Washington. Harrison and Nabors will be gone IMO before we pick. Odzune might be gone but if he is there, that would be a nice pick. 

 

I like him too, he could easily be a top ten pick, IMO. I think he's primed for a big game against Texas. We'll see how the board looks in March but he's really good.

[shasta519]

Before the season, it was likely that this offense was going to run through MPJ and Downs. When Steichen was in PHI, there really wasn't a WR3, aside from occasional deep ball. AJB and Smith were often the top two reads in the RPO. 

 

Whether it was a rookie QB or Minshew, we should have expected this to continue. And MPJ and Downs are far better fits for that type of offense.

 

Hopefully AP gets a chance next year. I have been critical enough of AP and not much has changed for me. He will be on the roster next year, but the Colts are going to add a WR to pair with MPJ. 

 

 

[GoColts8818]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

Minshew throws them the ball. First thing to acknowledge is that our entire passing game is schemed to feed Pittman. When we're not forcing the ball to Pittman, it's Downs working against zones. And everything else is leftover crumbs.

 

 

No there wasn't. Aside from his drop, he mostly got trash targets late in the down, including overthrown balls, and plays on which he drew flags.

 

 

I'm not arguing that. What I'm arguing is this myth that he doesn't get open. He does, and Minshew doesn't throw him the ball. 

My point has been he’s a disappointment because the production isn’t there.  If you agree with that then I am not sure what we are debating.  I’ll also agree Minshew isn’t the best QB in the NFL and that might cause his number to dip a little bit but I don’t think it’s the core issue.  He’s never been a big target for five QBs now,  that tells me the problem isn’t just the QB.  Like I said before if anything he’s been more productive with Minshew than other QBs he’s had in the NFL.  
 

id agree he’s probably better at getting separation than most give him credit for.  I’d still argue he doesn’t do it enough.  Maybe we just disagree on that and that’s fine.  Still my overall issue with him is the production just isn’t there and I don’t think it’s all on the QB.  
 

With that said I still want him to work out, I am not calling for him to be released.  I do think the Colts will have to acknowledge the production isn’t there with him this off-season and add another body to the room to try to get that production.  I think you agree with that.  

[GoColts8818]

29 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

It's arguably the thinnest position on the roster. At cut down day we had three WRs -- Pittman, Pierce, and Downs. Most of the year, Pittman and Pierce have played > 95% of snaps. I thought McKenzie should get more reps, but now he's not even with the team; no one else has a legit case for even being active on game day.

 

Even if we loved our top three, we need more guys who can play WR on Sundays.

100%.  I was disappointed they didn’t do more this off-season to have more than the three they do have.  We are also assuming (and I’ll say I think there is no chance they let Pittman walk) that all three of those guys will be back next season.  Pittman is a free agent and nothing is ever 100% when a player is a free agent.  Still I’d say it’s a safe assumption that all three will be back.  Even so you are right they have to add another WR or two to that room and I’d like to see a higher level player than just getting Dulin back.  

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

My point has been he’s a disappointment because the production isn’t there.  If you agree with that then I am not sure what we are debating.  I’ll also agree Minshew isn’t the best QB in the NFL and that might cause his number to dip a little bit but I don’t think it’s the core issue.  He’s never been a big target for five QBs now,  that tells me the problem isn’t just the QB.  Like I said before if anything he’s been more productive with Minshew than other QBs he’s had in the NFL.  
 

id agree he’s probably better at getting separation than most give him credit for.  I’d still argue he doesn’t do it enough.  Maybe we just disagree on that and that’s fine.  Still my overall issue with him is the production just isn’t there and I don’t think it’s all on the QB.  
 

With that said I still want him to work out, I am not calling for him to be released.  I do think the Colts will have to acknowledge the production isn’t there with him this off-season and add another body to the room to try to get that production.  I think you agree with that.  

 

What I said is there are a lot of missed opportunities to get Pierce the ball. And that was partly in response to you (and others) saying that he doesn't get separation and can't get open.

 

He needs to run routes better, he should be more reliable catching the ball (that's kind of a new thing this year though), the production isn't there, we gotta add to the WR room... we're on the same page on all of that. I'm pushing back on the idea that he doesn't get the ball because he can't get open, and that's because I see him getting open and still not getting the ball. My point is pretty much what you said in bold. 

[Superman]

13 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

100%.  I was disappointed they didn’t do more this off-season to have more than the three they do have.  We are also assuming (and I’ll say I think there is no chance they let Pittman walk) that all three of those guys will be back next season.  Pittman is a free agent and nothing is ever 100% when a player is a free agent.  Still I’d say it’s a safe assumption that all three will be back.  Even so you are right they have to add another WR or two to that room and I’d like to see a higher level player than just getting Dulin back.  

 

I think between all the TEs and intending to really work the QB run game, they felt like they had enough at WR. But cutting almost all of them at the end of the preseason was kind of eye opening. 

 

(By the way, I just looked, McKenzie made the final 53, but was released shortly after that. He was resigned almost immediately, just a roster machination.) 

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

For years, I think many thought all these tall WR’s the Colts drafted or signed were a Ballard thing.   I believe they were a Reich thing.   I think the selection of the 5’9” Downs supports that.  
 

IMO, Downs was a Reggie/Steichen assertion, not a Ballard top-down force-on.  I think Ballard has gotten his hat handed to him a bit by Irsay (despite public expression), and Steichen has more say into personnel than Reich did...or Steichen is being more assertive because he's the new hire and has got a longer contract than Ballard's remaining years.  Contractually speaking, Steichen will be here longer than Ballard will, and probably has strong input into the team.

[husker61]

I don’t understand why the colts have so many te’s when they don’t use them blocking or passing to them. If they can’t block, cut them and get some that can. You watch San Francisco and they have two te’s on the line and that’s a big reason they are so successful running the ball and it’s the same with other teams. That doesn’t meant they can’t throw to them also. The colts are just wasting money spent on what they wanted to be a top rb.

[DougDew]

36 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

Before the season, it was likely that this offense was going to run through MPJ and Downs. When Steichen was in PHI, there really wasn't a WR3, aside from occasional deep ball. AJB and Smith were often the top two reads in the RPO. 

 

Then that is a bad omen for this team.  Because the reason Philly can run the O through only 2 outside WRs is because those two guys are both high first round picks.  Smith and Brown (traded for a first).   Pitt and Downs aren't good enough to simulate that passing game, IMO.

[husker61]

5 minutes ago, DougDew said:

IMO, Downs was a Reggie/Steichen assertion, not a Ballard top-down force-on.  I think Ballard has gotten his hat handed to him a bit by Irsay (despite public expression), and Steichen has more say into personnel than Reich did...or Steichen is being more assertive because he's the new hire and has got a longer contract than Ballard's remaining years.  Contractually speaking, Steichen will be here longer than Ballard will, and probably has strong input into the team.

we will see how is there longer. I think Ballard gets too much hate and steichen gets too much praise. Time will tell!

[DougDew]

7 minutes ago, husker61 said:

I don’t understand why the colts have so many te’s when they don’t use them blocking or passing to them. If they can’t block, cut them and get some that can. You watch San Francisco and they have two te’s on the line and that’s a big reason they are so successful running the ball and it’s the same with other teams. That doesn’t meant they can’t throw to them also. The colts are just wasting money spent on what they wanted to be a top rb.

Because Mallory and Granson are limited, and Ogletree is only a 5th round pick talent coming off of a knee.  Cox and Woods have been pretty one dimensional/useless.   Ogletree is the only TE of the 5 that resembles a TE that can be effective both blocking and receiving, so he is the only TE that has any real versatility.  The other guys are pretty much role players.

 

Its why I said near the beginning of the season that our TE room is not as good as many believe.  JMO.

[husker61]

Maybe a te is more important than a wr that so many here want the colts to get! That will help with the passing and running game.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, shasta519 said:

Before the season, it was likely that this offense was going to run through MPJ and Downs. When Steichen was in PHI, there really wasn't a WR3, aside from occasional deep ball. AJB and Smith were often the top two reads in the RPO. 

 

Whether it was a rookie QB or Minshew, we should have expected this to continue. And MPJ and Downs are far better fits for that type of offense.

 

Hopefully AP gets a chance next year. I have been critical enough of AP and not much has changed for me. He will be on the roster next year, but the Colts are going to add a WR to pair with MPJ. 

 

 

Good to see you post.   If I had a new year’s wish, I’d hope you’d post more often in 2024.   The website is better when you post more. 
 

Im sure you have good reasons why you don’t post more,  but I think the community here benefits from your viewpoints.   They lead to better discussions.   
 

Hope to see you more in 24! 

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

36 minutes ago, DougDew said:

IMO, Downs was a Reggie/Steichen assertion, not a Ballard top-down force-on.  I think Ballard has gotten his hat handed to him a bit by Irsay (despite public expression), and Steichen has more say into personnel than Reich did...or Steichen is being more assertive because he's the new hire and has got a longer contract than Ballard's remaining years.  Contractually speaking, Steichen will be here longer than Ballard will, and probably has strong input into the team.

Not a surprise, but I agree with almost none of this.   But that’s not important.  So let me cut to the chase….   What is the proof for your claim that Ballard has had his hat handed to him?   (Whatever that means?)  what has happened for you to believe that other than the fact that Moose believes it’s true?