Colts released Shaq Leonard

[w87r]

Just now, richard pallo said:

If you’re a definite contender and you’re all in this year it might be worth the risk depending on your linebacker situation.  

Definitely.

 

$12.5m gamble he doesn't get hurt.

 

 

Browns? They got the cap?

 

Probably the eagles after he clears waivers, perhaps Cardinals put a claim in thinking he wouldn't sign there?

[w87r]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

What a rotten dude. Definitely had to get him out of the locker room... /s

 

I don't think the Colts played this the right way. If you don't like how he's playing, or you don't want to risk his injury guarantee, bench him. That's apparently what they told him they were doing yesterday. Explain it ot the media, and let the rest work itself out. 

I liked the sarcasm.

 

 

As to the other point, like I mentioned above, I actually think the team did him a solid.

 

Now he can go somewhere now and maybe get some PT. Rather than sit and be inactive for the next 7 weeks plus, hopefully.

 

I don't know about the communications between the time of telling him he would be inactive and the release, but hopefully there was some dialogue.

[Zoltan]

Not gonna lie I feel we may end up regretting this. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

6 minutes ago, w87r said:

I liked the sarcasm.

 

 

As to the other point, like I mentioned above, I actually think the team did him a solid.

 

Now he can go somewhere now and maybe get some PT. Rather than sit and be inactive for the next 7 weeks plus, hopefully.

 

I don't know about the communications between the time of telling him he would be inactive and the release, but hopefully there was some dialogue.

I’m the video above he said he asked for another meeting I think he said Monday. He said he didn’t hear what he wanted. Then he was released today. Sounds like just one day.

[w87r]

thoughts on that?

 

3 minutes ago, Zoltan said:

Not gonna lie I feel we may end up regretting this. 

Have a little uneasy feel about it.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, w87r said:

thoughts on that?

 

Have a little uneasy feel about it.

I don’t think so.

[Superman]

3 minutes ago, w87r said:

I liked the sarcasm.

 

 

As to the other point, like I mentioned above, I actually think the team did him a solid.

 

Now he can go somewhere now and maybe get some PT. Rather than sit and be inactive for the next 7 weeks plus, hopefully.

 

I don't know about the communications between the time of telling him he would be inactive and the release, but hopefully there was some dialogue.

 

I'd be right there with you if Leonard's response to being benched was 'I'd like to be released so I can go somewhere else and play.' Reportedly, he did not make that request.

 

Or if at any time during his benching he started making noise and challenging the decision publicly, yeah, get him out of here. But what if he was the team's biggest cheerleader on the sideline? We don't know what he would have done. (And if it comes out that he was disruptive over the last day, then I get it, and I withdraw my criticism.)

 

But I think that video above speaks volumes about his character, and makes me think that he deserved a chance to be a good teammate and finish the year as a Colt. 

 

I think the Colts rightfully have a reputation of being an organization that treats its members well, and they didn't earn that reputation by doing stuff like this.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

If colts  go on and win playoff games without him I don’t think it will matter if he goes somewhere else and plays well.

[Zoltan]

2 minutes ago, w87r said:

thoughts on that?

 

Have a little uneasy feel about it.

I think he will definitely be better next year with an offseason not focused on rehabbing, of course I think he also didn’t fit in Bradley’s system. Which if he moves to a team that lets him go off instincts he will have a better year. I also think Olubi is a complete liability on defense. 

[csmopar]

5 minutes ago, w87r said:

thoughts on that?

 

Have a little uneasy feel about it.

Ehhhhh I cant remember, is Bob Sanders in the RoH? If not, then, definitely no to Shaq

[Solid84]

3 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Assuming he doesn't get claimed on waivers -- and I think that's a long shot -- I don't see what the point could be. Are they tired of him complaining? I'm really shocked, I don't get it.

 

The other thing that makes me concerned is this seems like a battle between him and Gus Bradley, and maybe this means Bradley won. And that probably means Bradley stays next season, which doesn't excite me at all. 

Gotta be honest, I’m disappointed they booted Leonard without even trying him at Mike for a stretch of games. He was our biggest defensive playmaker when healthy and without blockers in his face constantly - the Mike position would give him that freedom. 
 

I REALLY hope we don’t keep Bradley. 
 

Guess we’re looking at linebackers this offseason…

[csmopar]

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I'd be right there with you if Leonard's response to being benched was 'I'd like to be released so I can go somewhere else and play.' Reportedly, he did not make that request.

 

Or if at any time during his benching he started making noise and challenging the decision publicly, yeah, get him out of here. But what if he was the team's biggest cheerleader on the sideline? We don't know what he would have done. (And if it comes out that he was disruptive over the last day, then I get it, and I withdraw my criticism.)

 

But I think that video above speaks volumes about his character, and makes me think that he deserved a chance to be a good teammate and finish the year as a Colt. 

 

I think the Colts rightfully have a reputation of being an organization that treats its members well, and they didn't earn that reputation by doing stuff like this.

You’re right, it is out of character for not only Ballard but the Colts under Jim Irsay . That’s why I think there’s more to this than we know and way more than just a personnel decision. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

The Bradley presser was weird today. He talked about getting Leonard around the ball more. He knew he was going to be inactive or cut. 

[w87r]

10 minutes ago, Superman said:

But I think that video above speaks volumes about his character, and makes me think that he deserved a chance to be a good teammate and finish the year as a Colt. 

 

I think the Colts rightfully have a reputation of being an organization that treats its members well, and they didn't earn that reputation by doing stuff like this.

Solid point.

 

I'm not questioning his character at all, I wouldn't think less of him if he asked to be released so he could be active.

 

 

And I know he is bummed out, AT THE MOMENT, but I think once the dust settles he is in another uniform and playing this year, he will be happy we let him have a chance to do so.

 

 

I do wish there was more dialogue between them between benching and release.

 

 

 

Side bar:

I also don't think the contract signed is too bad at this point. It's not great, don't get me wrong, but it didn't hinder anything really.

 

Yes it worked out to about 2yr $40m, but we are out from under it going forward($8m dead cap, $12.1m savings), and we still set a good example to current players, by rewarding our own.

 

Just didn't work out in the end.

[masterlock]

3 hours ago, tikyle said:

This.

 

Where's the loyalty?

It's not about loyalty. It's about business and winning. 

[EasyE]

This is sad, but it's business. I wish him the best. Someone will get him off the waiver. Probably the Bears 

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

Gotta be honest, I’m disappointed they booted Leonard without even trying him at Mike for a stretch of games. He was our biggest defensive playmaker when healthy and without blockers in his face constantly - the Mike position would give him that freedom. 
 

I REALLY hope we don’t keep Bradley. 
 

Guess we’re looking at linebackers this offseason…

 

Should have done it when Franklin was out. Looking back, the writing might have been on the wall. 

 

I'm absolutely not a Bradley fan. And this decision seems heavily influenced by him, and it's a big decision -- on field, off field, business-wise -- to let be influenced by someone who won't be here in three months. I'm thinking Bradley is back next year.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Should have done it when Franklin was out. Looking back, the writing might have been on the wall. 

 

I'm absolutely not a Bradley fan. And this decision seems heavily influenced by him, and it's a big decision -- on field, off field, business-wise -- to let be influenced by someone who won't be here in three months. I'm thinking Bradley is back next year.

I wonder if this would have happened if colts were not 5-5 trying to make the playoffs. They are trying to win and make the playoffs. Maybe if they were not on the playoff race they wait until the season is over.

[Zoltan]

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Should have done it when Franklin was out. Looking back, the writing might have been on the wall. 

 

I'm absolutely not a Bradley fan. And this decision seems heavily influenced by him, and it's a big decision -- on field, off field, business-wise -- to let be influenced by someone who won't be here in three months. I'm thinking Bradley is back next year.

I’m really hoping Bradley isn’t back. 

[csmopar]

Just now, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I wonder if this would have happened if colts were not 5-5 trying to make the playoffs. They are trying to win and make the playoffs. Maybe if they were not on the playoff race they wait until the season is over.

After watching Shaq’s interview, I think something occurred in that meeting to go from being told he’s gonna be inactive to him being released in a matter of basically a couple hours. What that was, we likely will never know. But I picked up on the facial expressions when Shaq said he didn’t like what he was being told, could tell there was still some burn there. Did he have a blow up in that meeting ? Did he threaten to run to the media? I just feel deep down there’s more here. 

[husker61]

21 minutes ago, w87r said:

thoughts on that?

 

Have a little uneasy feel about it.

no!!!

[csmopar]

3 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I wonder if this would have happened if colts were not 5-5 trying to make the playoffs. They are trying to win and make the playoffs. Maybe if they were not on the playoff race they wait until the season is over.

No I think it’s more they didn’t like what he was doing on the field, they confronted him on it, he didn’t like what he was told, something happened in that meeting and boom, released. 
 

we all wanted accountability, maybe this is part of it

[Happy2BeHere]

I’m pretty dang shocked by this. His play sucked for the most part but I figure he’d be hear the rest of the year at least…mind blown 😳 🤯

[John Waylon]

45 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

You're incorrect on a few of these things.

 

First, the obligation of trading for Leonard vs claiming him through waivers is pretty much exactly the same. The only material difference is that the trade deadline was two weeks ago, so trading for him would have cost an additional two weeks of game checks, the new team would have paid him $7.9m instead of the $6.1m they would pay if they claim him now. (There's also some technical provisions with a waived veteran; if claimed, Leonard could declare his free agency after 2024.)

 

Second, if traded, the Colts would still bear the cap penalties related to his previously paid signing bonus. Just like they do after waiving him.

 

And a third thing I'd like to point out is that $6.5m of Leonard's 2024 salary is guaranteed for injury. So if he has any injury that compromises his ability to play in 2024, that money is paid by the team that either trades for or claims him on waivers. That's a significant risk for a player who was compromised by injuries for the last two seasons, and it makes taking on Leonard's contract more than just a seven game rental; the investment could easily triple if something goes wrong.

 

Those are the facts. What's a matter of opinion is whether Leonard had any trade value before the deadline, and whether he has any value as a waiver claim. We might never know about the former, but the way the waiver process plays out might give us some clues. If he's not claimed, it probably means he had no trade value. If multiple teams put in claims, it might mean there was some trade value, although there's no way to tell whether that value was meaningful; I don't know if anyone needs to spend any time thinking about a conditional 7th round pick.

 

I also don't see why Leonard would be motivated to renegotiate his contract in this scenario, with any team. Either keep him and pay him his guaranteed money, or drop him and pay him his guaranteed money, plus he can go to free agency.

 

I don't really like how this played out for the Colts, but I also don't think these other options really existed.

I thought a team claiming him had to take the contract as it was, my bad. 
 

I didn’t mind bearing the cap penalties to get something (i.e anything,) in return and just try to save any small amount of face. But paying the penalties to end up with nothing but peen in hand and a “thanks we’ll be seeing ya” is kind of a tough pill to swallow at the end of this journey. 
 

That still doesn’t change my opinion that he will go unclaimed, however, and I don’t relate that to any trade value. He will go unclaimed by teams who would have interest in him because would you rather bring a guy in and say “we’d like to renegotiate your deal” and force his hand or wait until his old contract is junk in just 24 hours and he has no choice other than to renegotiate a new one? Why willingly make your side seem like the new bad guy with him early on in the relationship? 
 

But he’s not going to remain unsigned and just disappear from the league forever in the wake of this, so it’s not like there’s no value here. He’s going to get a shot somewhere else. 
 

I just don’t see the reasoning behind not trying to get anything in return for a former all-pro 2nd round pick we gave a 6 figure contract to after 5 and a half years. Now Ballard is finding a way to turn his hits into long-term misses and he doesn’t have enough hits to play that game with.
 

If they tried to trade him and everyone balked at the contract, why wouldn’t we try to fix the contract then? The team has been clear this was their decision and Shaq had not done anything to spur it. That doesn’t sound like they asked him to re-negotiate and he said no. It sounds like we just waved the white flag of surrender meekly and shuffled off with less than we had a minute ago. 
 

I don’t think it would have been unfair to ask him about a re-negotiation after the season. There’s no one who could say that his deal was justified moving forward including Shaq himself, but I’m sure he and Ballard could have come up with something that would keep everyone happy while still being beneficial to the team. And that, in turn, would likely make him more attractive to other teams in the event that a split was still unavoidable. 
 

Even if it was a long-term process that ran through the draft or after there was a way to do this that could have helped us out even just a tiny bit as opposed to what we’ve got to show for it now. 

[Indeee]

3 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

 

Yay!! With that type of cash, the Colts can sign like 5 has-beens and like 85 6th rounders to one year, 1-million-dollar deals. 

 

[#12.]

I'll always remember the Washington game his rookie year - the first time he flashed.  He looked like something new and different.

 

Dude had 7 sacks his rookie year.  Polian thought he could be a combination of Derrick Brooks and Mathis.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I hope this helps the run  defense. He had been really bad with stopping the run.

[Dobbinblitz]

This situation has been building for quite sometime now.

Leonard played in 3 games in 2022. After having surgery in June he came back week 4 and suffered a concussion. Came back week 8 played 2 games before Saturday shut him down after it was discovered he had a nerve issue in his back.

 

In addition to the physical recovery, It has to be a monumental struggle to regain form once you mentally check out  and/or question your own commitment for a period of time.

 

After the devastating loss to the Jags at the end of 2021 season.

“Had to work on me as a person,” he said. “For me, it was more mental. Last year, I wasn’t in the right mental space to hold everyone accountable, and I felt like I let the team down in that aspect the last two games. I felt like we got comfortable with winning.”

 

And then in May of 2022.

"In this profession, sometimes you feel like you don't have a say so in your personal life just because it's all football, all football," Leonard said, via the Indianapolis Star. "When you feel like you have to hold a shade up on your personal life because of your football life, it eats you up.

"I fell out of love with the game".

Finally, It became both a production and distraction issue the team was no longer willing to ignore.

[#12.]

Leonard has kept the microscope off of Nelson.  I guess people will move on to Quenton.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Players will be back in the locker room tomorrow. Will be interesting to see what they say.

[coming on strong]

3 hours ago, Superman said:

 

What's the difference between Tee Higgins and Michael Pittman? I'd be looking in a different direction...

agreed we need more speed outside because pierce is not looking great .   pittman is a very good wr , but we need a new ty hilton who can use speed to take the top off a defense .  

[w87r]

2 minutes ago, Dobbinblitz said:

at the end of 2921 season

[Superman]

7 minutes ago, w87r said:

Side bar:

I also don't think the contract signed is too bad at this point. It's not great, don't get me wrong, but it didn't hinder anything really.

 

Yes it worked out to about 2yr $40m, but we are out from under it going forward($8m dead cap, $12.1m savings), and we still set a good example to current players, by rewarding our own.

 

Just didn't work out in the end.

 

About $43m, with little returned. But no one knew he was going to be significantly compromised by injury for two years in a row. And he was a perfect fit for the defense we were running at the time. I don't think the contract was a mistake. But the circumstances changed dramatically in the two years after the contract was done.

 

I think the bolded is slightly undermined by cutting a five time (and current) team captain, a guy who has a banner on the side of the stadium, two days before Thanksgiving. I'm not saying players won't come to Indy, but I don't think they deserve a pat on the back right now.

[Solid84]

3 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

 

True, but only like half the team is signed through '24 I believe? And, some of the guys who need signing are going to want big contracts.

[GoColts8818]

3 hours ago, tikyle said:

This.

 

Where's the loyalty?

This franchise cut Peyton Manning.  That should tell you everything you need to know about the NFL and loyalty.

[coming on strong]

2 hours ago, w87r said:

It would of cost the Colts $34m to release him last year. Only cost $11m to keep him.

why not let him finish the season to see if he improves over time?   i just dont get the timing of this move , if he is still bad at the end of the year i would agree to cut him .  are we really saving that much cap space to cut him now ?  it bothers me to treat a star player like this and could hurt the locker room .

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, Solid84 said:

True, but only like half the team is signed through '24 I believe? And, some of the guys who need signing are going to want big contracts.

But the cap will be going up. We have a handful that we should extend after this season. 
Blackmon

Grover

Moore

Pittman

might be missing one or two 

[holeymoley99]

Chance f0r 0lubi t0 sh0w us what he has the rest 0f the seas0n

[richard pallo]

One thing is practically certain.  Gus will be back.  This move sealed it for me.

[husker61]

He wasn’t playing well and got released. That’s what happens in all sports. He is financially set for life, probably better than almost everyone here and has his health(maybe not previous football health). He will be fine and continue to do community work if he chooses. 
 

I have a feeling the owner will continue to make mistakes with big contracts to colts players. That’s just who he is. Manning and luck were no brainers, but so many others were bad and I have said it for years.