Jim Irsay “we’ll see” on Shaq Leonard (MERGE)

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

12 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Past history now, but at the time of his retirement, I was not impressed with the offensive pieces Luck would have had to work with.  A declining TY, a revolving door at X (was it Inman then Funchess for one year?), and who was the slot?, a malcontent at the Move TE spot with one year left; and while Mack was okay, he didn't scare anybody enough to take the focus off of Luck.

 

When Luck said it seemed like there was this "continuing pattern of injury then rehab", a part of me felt like he looked around the locker room right before the season started and told himself he was going to have to go right back to putting himself at high risk by carrying the team again.  Albeit with a better oline than what he had before Ballard.

Ballard was only in year 2 of bring a GM with the colts. Had Luck not retired we really don’t know what would of happened. He might of went after better weapons after that 2018 playoffs had Luck not retired.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

I don’t think Ballard seat is hot. I really don’t. No way he takes a 3-4 year project player at QB if he doesn’t have Irsays by in. No, Ballard is here and safe for 3 years minimum

He is at least good through 23 and 24. Irsay is going to have to see colts are going in the right direction for him to last until his contract ends in 26.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

54 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

The roster lacks playmakers. No elite wide receivers, pass rushers, lock down corner, quarterback. 

Fans tend to forget in order to get those top tier playmakers you have to suck to be high in the draft.  Having a rookie QB may actually position us to get one in 24. Kind of like the Bengals getting burrow and chase back to back. Also getting a young QB hopefully we will have a consistent QB now and the guys we have will show what they really have. The QB rotation since Luck retire has not helped Pittman at all. Pierce can now grow with Richardson. Hopefully Downs will be that slot we always needed.

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, Blueblood23 said:

The roster lacks playmakers. No elite wide receivers, pass rushers, lock down corner, quarterback. 

I agree with this except on the pass rusher front. We may not have a super star but we have some solid ones . Just need more consistency and we need an offense that will get a lead on someone and allow us to pin our ears back on D

[Peter Nova]

12 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Fans tend to forget in order to get those top tier playmakers you have to suck to be high in the draft.  

 

At this point in Ballard's career, the Colts shouldn't be at this point. It shoulda coulda been avoided, if he'd drafted more wisely. 

[jvan1973]

4 minutes ago, Peter Nova said:

 

At this point in Ballard's career, the Colts shouldn't be at this point. It shoulda coulda been avoided, if he'd drafted more wisely. 

Why don't we wait and see how AR plays and SS calls games.   I think our skill positions are better than they have shown. 

[Peter Nova]

Just now, jvan1973 said:

Why don't we wait and see how AR plays and SS calls games.   I think our skill positions are better than they have shown. 

 

Colts fan for life! 

[Blueblood23]

32 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Fans tend to forget in order to get those top tier playmakers you have to suck to be high in the draft.  Having a rookie QB may actually position us to get one in 24. Kind of like the Bengals getting burrow and chase back to back. Also getting a young QB hopefully we will have a consistent QB now and the guys we have will show what they really have. The QB rotation since Luck retire has not helped Pittman at all. Pierce can now grow with Richardson. Hopefully Downs will be that slot we always needed.

Some playmakers could be had through free agency. The Colts have chosen not to acquire them through this process. 

[Peter Nova]

2 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

Some playmakers could be had through free agency. The Colts have chosen not to acquire them through this process. 

It's never been in the cards with Ballard. Which makes knocking every draft out of the park, a must. 

[MikeCurtis]

3 hours ago, csmopar said:

Only one player comes to mind… Peyton Manning

Yep...... Peyton had several neck surguries

 

From the article, it looks like a 50/50 thing

 

Lets hope it turns up HEADs

[LJpalmbeacher2]

He's right.

[BlackTiger]

3 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

 No one knows for a fact his career is over so saying it as a fact is little over the top.

I read he has a similar condition to what Peyton had, its hard to come back from and theres a very real chance he wont be the same physically.  That could be an issue for a under sized line backer

 

To justify his contract he needs to do more than just come back and be ok too, he needs to be great to earn that

 

Yeah i wouldnt say its a "fact" that his career is over but he could be nearing the end

[GoColts8818]

6 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

I read he has a similar condition to what Peyton had, its hard to come back from and theres a very real chance he wont be the same physically.  That could be an issue for a under sized line backer

 

To justify his contract he needs to do more than just come back and be ok too, he needs to be great to earn that

 

Yeah i wouldnt say its a "fact" that his career is over but he could be nearing the end

If you quoted my whole post rather than cherry picking one line you’ll see I said it’s possible his career is over or he’s never the same player he was.  

[csmopar]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I especially don't think the roster was bad in 2019 and 2020. The timeline that Ballard was working on was obliterated by Luck's retirement.

 

And then, rather than resetting around a young QB, they tried to patchwork their roster together and transition to some of the younger players, many of whom didn't develop as hoped. And we didn't have a transcendent QB to raise the floor, so some of the average position groups started to look even worse.

 

Ballard deserves plenty of blame IMO, but I think the 'this is a six year build' narrative requires ignoring a pretty significant development along the way.

I for sure agree with all that

[jvan1973]

1 hour ago, Blueblood23 said:

Some playmakers could be had through free agency. The Colts have chosen not to acquire them through this process. 

Signing players is a two way street.   Hopkins is out there,  do you think he wants to come here with a rookie qb and coach?

[jvan1973]

49 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

I read he has a similar condition to what Peyton had, its hard to come back from and theres a very real chance he wont be the same physically.  That could be an issue for a under sized line backer

 

To justify his contract he needs to do more than just come back and be ok too, he needs to be great to earn that

 

Yeah i wouldnt say its a "fact" that his career is over but he could be nearing the end

He doesn't have to justify his contract.   That isn't how it works.   The team offered him a contract based on past performance.   They offered him a contract in hopes that performance would continue.   Well,  it's football.  Injuries happen. 

[Ratking]

I said it last year... Darius is washed. Plain and simple. But the old heads on this forum told me I was overreacting. Lol. Cause nerve damage in an elite NFL player is no big deal... Right? Lol 

[jvan1973]

15 minutes ago, Ratking said:

I said it last year... Darius is washed. Plain and simple. But the old heads on this forum told me I was overreacting. Lol. Cause nerve damage in an elite NFL player is no big deal... Right? Lol 

Thanks doc.  Please tell us all about his injury troll 

[Blueblood23]

1 hour ago, jvan1973 said:

Signing players is a two way street.   Hopkins is out there,  do you think he wants to come here with a rookie qb and coach?

These guys can be had with the right amount of money. Almost all of them are that way with a few exceptions.

[cdgacoltsfan]

7 hours ago, BlackTiger said:

His contract has him in a position where it doesnt make any sense to retire.  He will make a ton of money by doing little if he doesnt retire

 

the team will cut him before 2024 if he still isnt playing though.  the cap hit is too high to cut him now

The original contract was with Darius Leonard. Can we just cut this guy Shaq Leonard with no cap ramifications?

[Peter Nova]

19 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

These guys can be had with the right amount of money. Almost all of them are that way with a few exceptions.

It's all about the money in most cases. Jax is a perfect example in having signed several high priced FAs over the years when they were terrible. In Indy's case under Ballard, it's just never been in the cards, because he thinks he can out draft everyone, and dabble in free agency. Slow learner I guess. 

[jvan1973]

49 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

These guys can be had with the right amount of money. Almost all of them are that way with a few exceptions.

Please tell me how many high priced free agents you have dealt with

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Peter Nova said:

It's all about the money in most cases. Jax is a perfect example in having signed several high priced FAs over the years when they were terrible. In Indy's case under Ballard, it's just never been in the cards, because he thinks he can out draft everyone, and dabble in free agency. Slow learner I guess. 

(Long post ahead…)

Not sure if you’re aware….   
 

Prior to the 2022 FA period, (Jan, Feb of 22) there was a graphic posted on the draft/free agent page on this website….  It showed that in the 10 prior years, Jax had spent more money in free agency than any other team in the NFL — $1.4 Billion.   That’s billion with a B.   And they had nothing to show for it.   A bad decade even though they spent a fortune in FA.  So pointing to Jacksonville as a franchise that knows what it’s doing because they did well in 2022 will not hold up for those of us who are long time posters.   We’ve been talking about this for years. 
 

Ballard said when he arrived here….  Indy is NOT a destination location for free agents.  The only way to sign the top free agents is to over-pay for them.   And Ballard has the data that shows over-paying in FA just doesn’t pay off in the long run.   And remember, whatever Ballard does, Irsay has signed off on.   So the owner approves. 
 

The lack of success during the Ballard era has little to do with the Colts approach in free agency.   It has everything to do with the quarterback position.   No Andrew Luck has been the Colts biggest issue.  Not getting the QB position right has been the biggest issue.   A great quarterback covers many issues on the roster. 
 

Chris Ballard is not a slow learner.  This is an analytics driven organization.  He’s got the data to back up his decisions.   He’s not always right, he’s made plenty of mistakes.  The 2022 season proves that.  But on balance, he’s an above average GM.  And until Irsay changes his mind,  Ballard continues to run the franchise. 

[Moosejawcolt]

4 hours ago, Ratking said:

I said it last year... Darius is washed. Plain and simple. But the old heads on this forum told me I was overreacting. Lol. Cause nerve damage in an elite NFL player is no big deal... Right? Lol 

I called it as well and said he was done. That is why I was in never in favor of signing him long term. I don't value the postion. You can slot in lbs in this defence with low draft capital and they flourish ala Franklin. I predicted injuries for Shaq as he is to light to play postion long term and rack ip all those tackles. 

[BlackTiger]

18 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

If you quoted my whole post rather than cherry picking one line you’ll see I said it’s possible his career is over or he’s never the same player he was.

 Personally i dont think there was anything wrong with my post.  I said more than its possible his career is over too

[BlackTiger]

18 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

That isn't how it works. 

Man you just love to fight with me dont you?  The team wont keep him if he cant live up to his contract, that was the point that i didn't think needed to be spelled out so explicitly.

 

Should't be hard to understand.  He needs to do more than just come back and be ok due to what he makes.

 

Putting you on ignore, you try too hard to argue with me.  That is how it works if he cant live up to a huge contract

[cdgacoltsfan]

28 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

Man you just love to fight with me dont you?  The team wont keep him if he cant live up to his contract, that was the point that i didn't think needed to be spelled out so explicitly.

 

Should't be hard to understand.  He needs to do more than just come back and be ok due to what he makes.

 

Putting you on ignore, you try too hard to argue with me.  That is how it works if he cant live up to a huge contract

That's his MO

[cdgacoltsfan]

18 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Signing players is a two way street.   Hopkins is out there,  do you think he wants to come here with a rookie qb and coach?

If the Colts paid him the money he wants or more than what he wants....he would 100% be a Colt.

[BlackTiger]

6 minutes ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

That's his MO

I guess we cant ignore anymore but a quick look at his post history shows a long list of ultra pedantic one line comments just fighting with people.  Dude tires too hard to police other posters into not posting things that he simply doesn't want to see.

 

A quick scroll up in this very thread shows several examples of this lol

 

[Moosejawcolt]

9 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

I guess we cant ignore anymore but a quick look at his post history shows a long list of ultra pedantic one line comments just fighting with people.  Dude tires too hard to police other posters into not posting things that he simply doesn't want to see.

 

A quick scroll up in this very thread shows several examples of this lol

 

Do u know what are the financial ramifications if the Colts were to cut him?

[DougDew]

21 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Ballard was only in year 2 of bring a GM with the colts. Had Luck not retired we really don’t know what would of happened. He might of went after better weapons after that 2018 playoffs had Luck not retired.

Ok, I'm not commenting on Ballard.  I was just saying that I think part of Luck's decision to retire was based upon him looking at the offensive assets he had to work with that season and contracted beyond that, and the thought of carrying the offense again......which would inherently require to put himself at risk....... contributed to his idea of recurring injury and rehab.  He saw the present and the near future and that made his leg hurt that much more, LOL.

 

I don't think that's what's going on with Leonard.

[Moosejawcolt]

Quote

6 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Ok, I'm not commenting on Ballard.  I was just saying that I think part of Luck's decision to retire was based upon him looking at the offensive assets he had to work with that season and contracted beyond that, and the thought of carrying the offense again......which would inherently require to put himself at risk....... contributed to his idea of recurring injury and rehab.  He saw the present and the near future and that made his leg hurt that much more, LOL.

 

I don't think that's what's going on with Leonard.

Agreed. I think Leonard is just done. I cannot think of a football player that has gone thru what he had and come back to play at an elite level. We r dealing with nerve damage and an occupation that is violent. I don't see a positive end to this other than retirement. 

 

[cdgacoltsfan]

27 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

I guess we cant ignore anymore but a quick look at his post history shows a long list of ultra pedantic one line comments just fighting with people.  Dude tires too hard to police other posters into not posting things that he simply doesn't want to see.

 

A quick scroll up in this very thread shows several examples of this lol

 

Yep

 I've been suspended several times myself for far far less . 

[BlackTiger]

24 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Do u know what are the financial ramifications if the Colts were to cut him?

according to spotrac the penalty for cutting him now would be about a 28 million$ cap hit, and if we keep him the cap hit is about 20. So if i read that right the penalty is bigger than just keeping him for now

 

Next year the penalty drops to 8 and the team would save money by cutting him if they want to at that time.

[throwing BBZ]

19 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

He doesn't have to justify his contract.   That isn't how it works.   The team offered him a contract based on past performance.   They offered him a contract in hopes that performance would continue.   Well,  it's football.  Injuries happen. 

 

 Your slant is argumentative, missing the proper take.

 If Leonard isn't worth a roster spot, you cut him. But, unfortunately, the dead cap hit would be astronomical. 

 If he comes back just as fast as before good for him. 

 If he has a slight hitch in his giddy up, I hope he does not pass a physical for the season. lol

 

[Moosejawcolt]

13 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

according to spotrac the penalty for cutting him now would be about a 28 million$ cap hit, and if we keep him the cap hit is about 20. So if i read that right the penalty is bigger than just keeping him for now

 

Next year the penalty drops to 8 and the team would save money by cutting him if they want to at that time.

Wow....that sucks but we r in semi building mode so carrying him won't affect us. 

[Peter Nova]

1 minute ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Wow....that sucks but we r in semi building mode so carrying him won't affect us. 

Things gonna get worse before they get better. Hail Ballard. 

[Moosejawcolt]

Just now, Peter Nova said:

Things gonna get worse before they get better. Hail Ballard. 

Actually I have been critical of him but his contract is really not that much or a hit at this time considering the teams status at this time. We r not in playoff mode , so he can just sit on the bench and cut  him  next year. I guess we could use that money to sign a guard or wr but I am not expecting much this year. That money will come in handy next year to add some tools to help out Richardson 

[John Waylon]

8 minutes ago, Peter Nova said:

Things gonna get worse before they get better. Hail Ballard. 

 

[Peter Nova]

1 minute ago, John Waylon said:

 

 

Out of curiosity what is the longest stretch for a GM not linked to ownership, who has maintained their job without a division title? Anyone..