Colts select QB Anthony Richardson Florida (merge)

[NFLfan]

8 hours ago, stitches said:

Here's a story about Richardson Ballard shared at the Indiana Sports corp luncheon. 

 

 

We got a good one, guys and gals. No idea if he pans out, but he seems like a genuine good person with a  sense of responsibility.

 

It is easy to see when he he speaks. When he is interviewed, he speaks in a humble manner and without affectation. He seems like a genuine guy.  It is easy to root for someone like him. 

[NFLfan]

I think I'm the one who brought up Ryan Grigson. I never expected it to balloon and take over this thread. Sorry.

 

Let's move on from that and celebrate your new QB.

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

I think I'm the one who brought up Ryan Grigson. I never expected to balloon and take over this thread. Sorry.

 

Let's move on from that and celebrate your new QB.

 

[coming on strong]

On 5/10/2023 at 10:53 AM, Blueblazes said:

Yes, I'm sure we are all hoping he brings his 17 TDs passing and 9 INTs to the Colts and his 2,549 yards to the Colts. That will make us become a Super Bowl contender. 

If you add rushing tds and yards Richardson had 26 touchdowns and 3200 yards . That is in 13 games with another 4 he would probably be over 30 touchdowns and 4000 yards . That is good for a first year starter 

[Blueblazes]

On 5/12/2023 at 12:30 PM, coming on strong said:

If you add rushing tds and yards Richardson had 26 touchdowns and 3200 yards . That is in 13 games with another 4 he would probably be over 30 touchdowns and 4000 yards . That is good for a first year starter 

Hope  you're right, but I'm thinking more like 15  TDs passing, 18 INTs  and 8 rushing TDs. This gets most benched, but we'll keep this and see who's closer to right.  Hope you are.

[Stephen]

2 minutes ago, Blueblazes said:

Hope  you're right, but I'm thinking more like 15  TDs passing, 18 INTs  and 8 rushing TDs. This gets most benched, but we'll keep this and see who's closer to right.  Hope you are.

At worst I can see 18 td and 15 int, but I dont believe richardson is the throw more ints than tds type

[stitches]

1 hour ago, Blueblazes said:

Hope  you're right, but I'm thinking more like 15  TDs passing, 18 INTs  and 8 rushing TDs. This gets most benched, but we'll keep this and see who's closer to right.  Hope you are.

The thing with Richardson is... he's not accurate, but... he doesn't throw many interceptible balls. Even in college while throwing 54% completion his turnover worthy throws were relatively low. For example, both Levis... AND STROUD had higher turnover worthy plays % last year. 

 

Plus, if the offense is designed the way I imagine it designed, he will not be throwing as many balls to begin with so this will additionally lower the INT number. That's why I don't expect high teens or 20s INTs  next season... 

[DiogoSales]

5 hours ago, stitches said:

The thing with Richardson is... he's not accurate, but... he doesn't throw many interceptible balls. Even in college while throwing 54% completion his turnover worthy throws were relatively low. For example, both Levis... AND STROUD had higher turnover worthy plays % last year. 

 

Plus, if the offense is designed the way I imagine it designed, he will not be throwing as many balls to begin with so this will additionally lower the INT number. That's why I don't expect high teens or 20s INTs  next season... 

Agree on that, but the point is:

 

The NFL will take your best shot away, and thats running, of course he and JT are too talent so they will eventually move the ball, but everybody will dare him to thrown, just like it is with Lamar..

 

Can our OL be better to a point that we will run even when everybody knows it?

 

Can our scheme/design of plays be so simple that will allow all those freak athletes to just react and play?

 

If we yes for those, it will be a fun year, if not, we will a lot growing pains and that's ok to be honest.

 

Being really cold and calculated, I like the Staff choices and the draft choices, so I'm here for the ride, good or bad.

[Stephen]

38 minutes ago, DiogoSales said:

Agree on that, but the point is:

 

The NFL will take your best shot away, and thats running, of course he and JT are too talent so they will eventually move the ball, but everybody will dare him to thrown, just like it is with Lamar..

 

Can our OL be better to a point that we will run even when everybody knows it?

 

Can our scheme/design of plays be so simple that will allow all those freak athletes to just react and play?

 

If we yes for those, it will be a fun year, if not, we will a lot growing pains and that's ok to be honest.

 

Being really cold and calculated, I like the Staff choices and the draft choices, so I'm here for the ride, good or bad.

Considering his strengths are running and throwing deep there isnt a team on our schedule that can take away both. If they put an extra man in the box to stop the run there are one on one shots deep and I like his chances

[stitches]

Another article from Zach Hicks on what we are likely to see from our offense built around Richardson:

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/colts/news/empty-theory-splitting-field-anthony-richardson

 

 

[Nevbot]

12 minutes ago, stitches said:

Another article from Zach Hicks on what we are likely to see from our offense built around Richardson:

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/colts/news/empty-theory-splitting-field-anthony-richardson

 

 

Good stuff! I really hope we are getting AR mentally up to speed with every waking hour of the day.

I also hope we have throwing mechanic specialists like House or Simms working with him on footwork, launch angles and touch. 

AR is so moldable at this point, I hope we get the best in the business working with him early and often on top of our coach staff.  When the break occurs before training camp, I love that Minshew will likely be working with AR in Florida and I hope the aforementioned specials are working with him a ton too. 

You never know how quickly AR may come on.  The first time in his life where all he has to focus on in football.  No school, everything is now in behind him. And he seems like the type of kid that breathes ball and wants to give his life to it.  

Only time will tell! The ride should be fun!

[stitches]

 

 

 

[DougDew]

You know, if anybody wants to pettishly carry that AR vs Levis pre-draft cat fight to the regular season and beyond, know that it won't really be a fair fight.  The Colts drafted AR, so even the Levis supporters will be rooting for AR, while at the same time hoping that Levis does badly because he's playing for TEN.  Meanwhile, the AR supporters can root for the guy they wanted because he actually is playing for the Colts. 

 

The fact that the Colts picked AR and TEN picked Levis kind of makes it hard for any Levis pre-draft supporters to be enthusiastic about their opinions. 

[Btown_Colt]

16 minutes ago, DougDew said:

You know, if anybody wants to pettishly carry that AR vs Levis pre-draft cat fight to the regular season and beyond, know that it won't really be a fair fight.  The Colts drafted AR, so even the Levis supporters will be rooting for AR, while at the same time hoping that Levis does badly because he's playing for TEN.  Meanwhile, the AR supporters can root for the guy they wanted because he actually is playing for the Colts. 

 

The fact that the Colts picked AR and TEN picked Levis kind of makes it hard for any Levis pre-draft supporters to be enthusiastic about their opinions. 

[DougDew]

59 minutes ago, Btown_Colt said:

Actually, I said it to tamp down any arguments, not to start one.   Hopefully, people here won't focus on TENs backup quarterback when they talk about AR.  If they did, it would be very revealing.

 

But, to offer another comment.  If the Colts didn't draft AR at 4, he probably also would have fallen out of the first round.  While we know that Irsay said he would have taken Levis if AR wasn't there, we haven't heard any other GM say that they would have taken AR if the guy they took wasn't there.  So the idea that AR was thought of as first round talent by the rest of the league is pure speculation.

 

We took a QB because we needed one to start soon.  No other team needs a QB to start soon, and starting soon is a criteria by which teams use first round draft picks.  I'll guarantee you that each team in the NFL is expecting the player they took in the first round to start sometime early in the season.   And that's why those players were considered first round talent at those respective positions by the teams who selected them.

[Nate!]

24 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Actually, I said it to tamp down any arguments, not to start one.   Hopefully, people here won't focus on TENs backup quarterback when they talk about AR.  If they did, it would be very revealing.

 

But, to offer another comment.  If the Colts didn't draft AR at 4, he probably also would have fallen out of the first round.  While we know that Irsay said he would have taken Levis if AR wasn't there, we haven't heard any other GM say that they would have taken AR if the guy they took wasn't there.  So the idea that AR was thought of as first round talent by the rest of the league is pure speculation.

 

We took a QB because we needed one to start soon.  No other team needs a QB to start soon, and starting soon is a criteria by which teams use first round draft picks.  I'll guarantee you that each team in the NFL is expecting the player they took in the first round to start sometime early in the season.   And that's why those players were considered first round talent at those respective positions by the teams who selected them.

NFL teams have no benefit to share they would’ve drafted someone picked before them.  They have to worry about the guys they did draft.

 

I feel confident Richardson would’ve went in the first but no way to know.  Word on the street is Seahawks already prepped Geno they could draft a QB, and it’s believed that QB was Richardson

[DougDew]

38 minutes ago, Nate! said:

NFL teams have no benefit to share they would’ve drafted someone picked before them.  They have to worry about the guys they did draft.

 

I feel confident Richardson would’ve went in the first but no way to know.  Word on the street is Seahawks already prepped Geno they could draft a QB, and it’s believed that QB was Richardson

Sure, but who knows if they meant at 5 or 15, or round 2.   That's the point.  It doesn't mean that any player that wasn't drafted was not a first round talent, or was a first round talent.  It just means that the guy they drafted was a better prospect/need for them.  

 

The Colts picked AR because the Colts had him rated as at least the 3rd best QB prospect.  That's all we know.  And we know that they must have had Levis rated higher than any other player....probably heavily influenced by need....which influences every team's first round pick.

 

And as @Restinpeacesweetchloe astutely pointed out, after the Colts...other teams needed a QB a lot less than the teams in the top 5 did.  So the 4th guy in the eyes of the Colts fell.

[cjwhiskers]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Actually, I said it to tamp down any arguments, not to start one.   Hopefully, people here won't focus on TENs backup quarterback when they talk about AR.  If they did, it would be very revealing.

 

But, to offer another comment.  If the Colts didn't draft AR at 4, he probably also would have fallen out of the first round.  While we know that Irsay said he would have taken Levis if AR wasn't there, we haven't heard any other GM say that they would have taken AR if the guy they took wasn't there.  So the idea that AR was thought of as first round talent by the rest of the league is pure speculation.

 

We took a QB because we needed one to start soon.  No other team needs a QB to start soon, and starting soon is a criteria by which teams use first round draft picks.  I'll guarantee you that each team in the NFL is expecting the player they took in the first round to start sometime early in the season.   And that's why those players were considered first round talent at those respective positions by the teams who selected them.

 

While it can't be proven, I feel strongly that a team would have taken Richardson in the first had we not. His potential ceiling at the most important position is too high for 32 teams to pass on him completely, especially with the added hype of his combine and measurables. 

 

I actually don't think he would have made it out of the top 10 honestly. Seahawks would have grabbed him or a team would have traded up. I don't think the noise about him strongly being considered by the Panthers as a #1 pick was inaccurate.

[DougDew]

3 minutes ago, cjrulli said:

 

While it can't be proven, I feel strongly that a team would have taken Richardson in the first had we not. His potential ceiling at the most important position is too high for 32 teams to pass on him completely, especially with the added hype of his combine and measurables. 

 

I actually don't think he would have made it out of the top 10 honestly. Seahawks would have grabbed him or a team would have traded up. I don't think the noise about him strongly being considered by the Panthers as a #1 pick was inaccurate.

QBs become potentially the top pick because the teams at the top need a QB.  Not necessarily because they are BPA.

 

If teams don't need one, they fall.  Its sort of a unique position compared to positional players, because drafting BPA works as building a roster and churning FAs.  QBs are franchise guys, so you either have a QB for the time being or you don't.

 

GB seems to be the team that takes QBs in the first round to let them sit for a number of years.  It would be tough for SEA to use a high first round pick on AR after committing to Geno for a few years.  JMO.  And then there is the idea that since they had two first rounders, they could have taken a flyer on a project....so even if SEA took AR at 5 or 15, you could still see that maybe he truly wasn't first round talent because SEA took him with "excess" capital.  Again, teams make the picks for reasons specific to their teams and its tough to extrapolate it into something more than that, IMO.

[stitches]

I mean there are reports that the Panthers were seriously considering Richardson for the no. 1 pick. The Seahawks have said he was in serious consideration for their no. 5 pick. The Colts took him at 4. I have no idea what else people want to consider Richardson as a talent worthy of that selection. 

 

Whatever... at this point it doesn't matter. Richardson is our QB ... hopefully he becomes a franchise QB. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

From today.

 

 

[shasta519]

On 5/15/2023 at 1:37 AM, stitches said:

The thing with Richardson is... he's not accurate, but... he doesn't throw many interceptible balls. Even in college while throwing 54% completion his turnover worthy throws were relatively low. For example, both Levis... AND STROUD had higher turnover worthy plays % last year. 

 

Plus, if the offense is designed the way I imagine it designed, he will not be throwing as many balls to begin with so this will additionally lower the INT number. That's why I don't expect high teens or 20s INTs  next season... 

 

 

I mean...if you have a 2.8% INT rate in college, you are still throwing plenty of interceptable balls. 

 

If that transfers over to the NFL, that is 2022 Matt Ryan and Zach Wilson territory.

 

I don't think a TO worthy play in college is equal to one in college. How many times do we see a college QB (even a guy like Stroud) make a throw and think..."that was awesome, but that's probably going the other way in the NFL." 

 

It's just such a different game at the NFL level from a passing standpoint. And that's what is going to make the next couple of seasons in the AFCS really interesting, with 3 young QBs.

 

But I do agree that IND will simplify the offense to try to prevent those types of plays. I think people expecting this explosive deep-passing offense need to temper their expectations.

[VikingsFanInChennai]

4 hours ago, DougDew said:

Sure, but who knows if they meant at 5 or 15, or round 2.   That's the point.  It doesn't mean that any player that wasn't drafted was not a first round talent, or was a first round talent.  It just means that the guy they drafted was a better prospect/need for them.  

 

The Colts picked AR because the Colts had him rated as at least the 3rd best QB prospect.  That's all we know.  And we know that they must have had Levis rated higher than any other player....probably heavily influenced by need....which influences every team's first round pick.

 

And as @Restinpeacesweetchloe astutely pointed out, after the Colts...other teams needed a QB a lot less than the teams in the top 5 did.  So the 4th guy in the eyes of the Colts fell.

Can we then say If Titans had not drafted Levis, he could have dropped to round 3 or day 3?

 

After all, all other teams didn't need a QB that much, so who knows? 

 

And, where do we stop? 

 

Anyway, Bryce Young shouldn't have been drafted at #1 overall pick while Stetson Bennett got drafted much lower in 150s, so who knows.... 

[shasta519]

4 hours ago, Nate! said:

NFL teams have no benefit to share they would’ve drafted someone picked before them.  They have to worry about the guys they did draft.

 

I feel confident Richardson would’ve went in the first but no way to know.  Word on the street is Seahawks already prepped Geno they could draft a QB, and it’s believed that QB was Richardson

 

But it could have been any one of a half dozen QBs. All Carroll said is that they gave AR consideration and then spoke about the pre-draft process. That seemed to get morphed into the idea that SEA was definitely going to take him.

 

But I don't buy it. Not with how they are set up the next couple of seasons and with Carroll's age.

 

I do think AR could have gone later in R1 though.

[stitches]

7 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

 

I mean...if you have a 2.8% INT rate in college, you are still throwing plenty of interceptable balls. 

 

If that transfers over to the NFL, that is Matt Ryan and Zach Wilson territory.

 

I don't think a TO worthy play in college is equal to one in college. How many times do we see a college QB (even a guy like Stroud) make a throw and think..."that was awesome, but that's probably going the other way in the NFL." 

That's the thing, I didn't watch Richardson and think "there are many passes that are not intercepted here but will be intercepted in the league". He's inacurrate in different ways. His turnover worthy plays % were 3.3%... this includes everything - both interceptible passes, fumbles, etc. That would be about average mark for the league. Again... it's not exceptional or something... but it's not horrible. 

7 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

It's just such a different game at the NFL level from a passing standpoint. And that's what is going to make the next couple of seasons in the AFCS really interesting.

 

But I do agree that IND will simplify the offense to try to prevent those types of plays. I think people expecting this explosive deep-passing offense need to temper their expectations.

Yeah... we don't really know how ready he will be and how comfortable he will be to sit in the pocket and deliver balls downfield. It might take some time before he's ready AND before Steichen actually lets him play that game. We will see. One thing is for sure though. IMO he will punish defenses that don't respect his athleticism. 

[shasta519]

4 hours ago, DougDew said:

Sure, but who knows if they meant at 5 or 15, or round 2.   That's the point.  It doesn't mean that any player that wasn't drafted was not a first round talent, or was a first round talent.  It just means that the guy they drafted was a better prospect/need for them.  

 

The Colts picked AR because the Colts had him rated as at least the 3rd best QB prospect.  That's all we know.  And we know that they must have had Levis rated higher than any other player....probably heavily influenced by need....which influences every team's first round pick.

 

And as @Restinpeacesweetchloe astutely pointed out, after the Colts...other teams needed a QB a lot less than the teams in the top 5 did.  So the 4th guy in the eyes of the Colts fell.

 

Yeah...I think Levis falling out of R1 gives some insight into a lack of QB needy teams and how this QB class might have been viewed, especially Levis.

 

It's also true that ARI shopped the #3 pick very hard. And ultimately, when they did trade back, it wasn't to a team who was moving up to get a QB that was left...it was a team who wanted an ER.

 

IND was even willing to risk losing AR instead of trading up one spot, but it worked out for them...likely because of how those QBs were viewed. Because of the lack of interest for trading up for a QB or just the lack of a desperate QB-needy team to do it, Ballard was able to still get AR at #4.

 

But the media loves to talk about QBs, so it seemed like QBs would go 1-4...or maybe even Hooker would be a R1 pick.

 

If you think this draft season was hyped at QB...just wait until next draft season, especially when a couple teams who already have a QB somehow end up with the #1 and #2 picks. It's going to be bonkers.

 

 

 

[stitches]

I disagree there was a lack of QB needy teams. There were PLENTY of them after the Colts. None of them bit on Levis. That's not to say they wouldn't have bit on Richardson. The Seahawks are on the record about seriously considering Richardson. Atlanta has no franchise QB, Washington, Pats, Bucs were all teams that need a QB. There was a ton of smoke about the Vikings wanting to move up for Richardson... 

 

I think there was a reason Levis fell and Richardson didn't. One is just a better prospect and/or there are some concerns with Levis ourside of his play. Just my 

[VikingsFanInChennai]

On 5/15/2023 at 4:23 PM, DiogoSales said:

Agree on that, but the point is:

 

The NFL will take your best shot away, and thats running, of course he and JT are too talent so they will eventually move the ball, but everybody will dare him to thrown, just like it is with Lamar..

 

Can our OL be better to a point that we will run even when everybody knows it?

 

Can our scheme/design of plays be so simple that will allow all those freak athletes to just react and play?

 

If we yes for those, it will be a fun year, if not, we will a lot growing pains and that's ok to be honest.

 

Being really cold and calculated, I like the Staff choices and the draft choices, so I'm here for the ride, good or bad.

This is the real concern.. that many want to overlook now. 

 

Everyone is optimistic about QB and HC, but it is important to what has been done to make the OL better next year. 

 

The hope is that the best players on the line get back to their health and form, and the weak links don't ruin the cohesiveness, and the young players like Raimann progress from the promise shown so far. And, Steichen can make them do better. 

 

But, HC had it easy on Philadelphia with the best offensive line there for last few years. How will he handle a couple of misfits and other misfiring greats? 

 

That will play a vital role in how well Richardson and Steichen can progress in their rookie roles and their career. 

[VikingsFanInChennai]

55 minutes ago, stitches said:

I disagree there was a lack of QB needy teams. There were PLENTY of them after the Colts. None of them bit on Levis. That's not to say they wouldn't have bit on Richardson. The Seahawks are on the record about seriously considering Richardson. Atlanta has no franchise QB, Washington, Pats, Bucs were all teams that need a QB. There was a ton of smoke about the Vikings wanting to move up for Richardson... 

 

I think there was a reason Levis fell and Richardson didn't. One is just a better prospect and/or there are some concerns with Levis ourside of his play. Just my 

Yes, it's wishful thinking that all other teams don't need a QB right now just because they weren't willing to spend their first round pick on Will Levis. 

 

If there was another better prospect QB available after top 3, many teams would've pounced on him. 

 

Simple fact is, these teams didn't value Levis much to be drafted on day 1, and that tells so much about their evaluations on him, on or off the field. 

 

I hope we can move on with this simple logic settled. 

 

Even if not, Anyway, we will get to see what Titans do with him and how Levis does in the NFL. That will tell if these teams' evaluations or fears are proven right. 

[VikingsFanInChennai]

1 hour ago, shasta519 said:

 

But it could have been any one of a half dozen QBs. All Carroll said is that they gave AR consideration and then spoke about the pre-draft process. That seemed to get morphed into the idea that SEA was definitely going to take him.

 

But I don't buy it. Not with how they are set up the next couple of seasons and with Carroll's age.

 

I do think AR could have gone later in R1 though.

If Belichick, Reid and Arians were / are going great, I don't see any problem with Carroll's age. 

 

He seems to be a healthy dude, and the chewing gum seems to revitalize his organs every chow-chow.. .. jokes aside, does he have any medical concern? 

 

I hear so much about Carroll's age in this forum.. that it doesn't make any sense at all to single him out as old, aging, weak and becoming unstable and not being able to hold his job anymore... What's up with that!? 

 

He just drafted a rookie pro bowl CB in 5th round, got his defense to do surprisingly  well after sending so many players out, got a career backup QB to pro bowl performance, got his team to playoffs over much hyped Rams and Cardinals when very few predicted Seahawks to win half a dozen games last season ... what exactly shows that he's aging? 

[BProland85]

8 hours ago, DougDew said:

You know, if anybody wants to pettishly carry that AR vs Levis pre-draft cat fight to the regular season and beyond, know that it won't really be a fair fight.  The Colts drafted AR, so even the Levis supporters will be rooting for AR, while at the same time hoping that Levis does badly because he's playing for TEN.  Meanwhile, the AR supporters can root for the guy they wanted because he actually is playing for the Colts. 

 

The fact that the Colts picked AR and TEN picked Levis kind of makes it hard for any Levis pre-draft supporters to be enthusiastic about their opinions. 

I always thought from the very start that Richardson was better and has a much better chance at succeeding in the NFL over Levis. The fact that Levis now plays for the arrogant Vrabel and a delusional fan base in TN, will obviously make me root against him even more. 

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

If Belichick, Reid and Arians were / are going great, I don't see any problem with Carroll's age. 

 

He seems to be a healthy dude, and the chewing gum seems to revitalize his organs every chow-chow.. .. jokes aside, does he have any medical concern? 

 

I hear so much about Carroll's age in this forum.. that it doesn't make any sense at all to single him out as old, aging, weak and becoming unstable and not being able to hold his job anymore... What's up with that!? 

 

He just drafted a rookie pro bowl CB in 5th round, got his defense to do surprisingly  well after sending so many players out, got a career backup QB to pro bowl performance, got his team to playoffs over much hyped Rams and Cardinals when very few predicted Seahawks to win half a dozen games last season ... what exactly shows that he's aging? 

What? I wasn’t calling Pete Carroll weak or feeble. You make me sound like an ageist  
 

I just mentioned it because there has been a lot of smoke around him retiring soon. 
 

He’s 71. I believe the oldest NFL HC was Halas, who retired after his age 72.

 

If he wants to keep going, I’m all for it. I just don’t buy him drafting AR when Geno is going to be there for at least two years (given the contract structure). 

[John Hammonds]

4 hours ago, stitches said:

I disagree there was a lack of QB needy teams. There were PLENTY of them after the Colts. None of them bit on Levis. That's not to say they wouldn't have bit on Richardson. The Seahawks are on the record about seriously considering Richardson. Atlanta has no franchise QB, Washington, Pats, Bucs were all teams that need a QB. There was a ton of smoke about the Vikings wanting to move up for Richardson... 

 

I think there was a reason Levis fell and Richardson didn't. One is just a better prospect and/or there are some concerns with Levis ourside of his play. Just my 

I agree.  I think that both AR and Levis have a certain amount of chance to be a bust.  But the difference may simply be in their age.  AR will have 5 or 6 years to prove he's The Guy.  While Levis may only have 3 years before he gets the "bust" label.  In other words, teams were more willing to bet on AR's future than on Levis' present.

 

And, remember, I was on record as being all-in on Levis, and scared to death of AR.

 

But AR's our quarterback, so I'm going to root for him to succeed, and hope like heck he becomes all he can possibly be.

 

As for Levis, well...  He's better beat out Malik this year.  'Cause the clock's already tickin'.

[ztboiler]

On 5/9/2023 at 3:38 PM, shasta519 said:

 

I agree regarding draft record. I don't think it's the best reflection of his ability to evaluate talent either.

 

And it's certainly not enough to warrant the extreme narratives about those teams being "garbage rosters" and Grigson being referred to as the "worst GM ever." That's the stuff I really take issue with. I don't think anybody can say Grigson did a good job. But I don't think we can say he did a terrible one either. And if that comes off as defending Grigson, so be it. But mostly I am just defending objectivity. 

 

The drafting was bad. He had no feel for Day 3, especially from 2013-15. But those also were sandwiched between a great draft class in 2012 and and a decent one in 2016 (5/8 are still in the NFL). So it's possible that Grigson would have stacked better from 2017-on, especially with another HC (who he saw better with eye to eye). Obviously, he wasn't going to get the chance here, but someday he might.

 

It's not surprising that the 2012 and 2016 drafts happened to be the only two drafts where the Colts actually had significant draft capital, given how much of a crapshoot it is.

 

But I also think injuries make those classes worse as well:

• Jack Mewhort and Hugh Thornton were solid interior OL players, but couldn't stay healthy.
• Donte Moncrief seemed like a promising WR until he got hurt in year 3 and 4. 
• Henry Anderson looked like a potential stud 3-4 DE as as rookie, but then got hurt and kept getting hurt.
• Dwayne Allen was an All-Rookie TE and looked like he could be a future PB TE, but then got hurt and was never the same.

All of those were Day 2 picks...the type you build a core base of talent around. And it was 5 of the 9 Day 2 picks (more than half) they had from 2012-15. I think the perception is different if some or all of those guys don't get hurt. 

 

And it wasn't just draft picks getting hurt. FAs like Gosder Cherilus, Donald Thomas and Arthur Jones all kept getting hurt. Over the span of 2012-14, the Colts were most injured team in the NFL (per Adjusted Games Lost). And ten years ago, injuries were much more impactful than they are now. It wasn't so easy to come back and play, let alone at a high level. I think that played an underrated role in the performance of the OL as well. How different is the Colts OL if Smith and Glow kept getting hurt after 2018?

 

But despite that, as well as any issues behind the scenes, Grigson's teams were also objectively successful. They went 49-31 and 3-3 in the playoffs from 2012-16. Even without Luck, those teams had a winning record (albeit a small sample size of games). They also beat very good teams, like SF, SEA and DEN in 2013. The 2014 team went to the AFCCG after holding CIN and DEN to 23 combined points. That team had 7 PBers, 5 of which were Grigson players. I just don't think you can take that away from the GM of the team.

 

So it sort of boggles my mind how some people can call those teams garbage and just how that era is perceived overall. And I think other GMs in the league do recognize the successes and are able to separate his draft record from his overall value as an exec. And if anybody would know that it's possible to have a bad draft, it's other GMs (just look at some of the picks that Schneider has made over the years).

 

I also think it's possible for people to learn and get better. We have this outlook on players, why not execs? Hell, most of this fanbase was stoked about Raheem Morris as HC, even though his HC record was awful. He was lauded for working his way back up through different, lower-level coaching jobs. I don't see a lot of difference between that and what Grigson has been doing, yet Grigson's jobs somehow hold much less weight and don't mean anything regarding his ability as a talent evaluator, while Morris' jobs show he is a good coach and ready to be a HC again?

 

Like I have said many times before, I just don't think Grigson gets a fair shake from most of this fanbase or the local media. And I think the perception outside Indy is much more objective, which is why I put stock into him continuing to get those jobs.

Objectivity is difficult to possess, let alone communicate.  This is well done.

[Nate!]

9 hours ago, DougDew said:

Sure, but who knows if they meant at 5 or 15, or round 2.   That's the point.  It doesn't mean that any player that wasn't drafted was not a first round talent, or was a first round talent.  It just means that the guy they drafted was a better prospect/need for them.  

 

The Colts picked AR because the Colts had him rated as at least the 3rd best QB prospect.  That's all we know.  And we know that they must have had Levis rated higher than any other player....probably heavily influenced by need....which influences every team's first round pick.

 

And as @Restinpeacesweetchloe astutely pointed out, after the Colts...other teams needed a QB a lot less than the teams in the top 5 did.  So the 4th guy in the eyes of the Colts fell.

it’s all just speculation.  If panthers don’t take Bryce Young, maybe all the other teams are scared of his size and he goes in the second round.  Nobody knows except the teams and the teams have no reason to share that.  You can say he definitely would’ve but you don’t know that.  

 

Even the Irsay Levis comments could be just a lie and it’s couched with an either/or (Take Levis or trade back).    Meaning you have no idea what they would’ve done.   Irsay’s comments are grain of salt worthy.   So to say he was their 4th guy (not sure if you mean QB or 4th overall prospect), is speculation.  You don’t know that.
 

Also, there’s speculation Panthers had AR as their number two and it was close to him being first taken.  Fact or fiction, who knows.

[DougDew]

2 minutes ago, Nate! said:

it’s all just speculation.  If panthers don’t take Bryce Young, maybe all the other teams are scared of his size and he goes in the second round.  Nobody knows except the teams and the teams have no reason to share that.  You can say he definitely would’ve but you don’t know that.  

 

Even the Irsay Levis comments could be just a lie and it’s couched with an either/or (Take Levis or trade back).    Meaning you have no idea what they would’ve done.   Irsay’s comments are grain of salt worthy.   So to say he was their 4th guy (not sure if you mean QB or 4th overall prospect), is speculation.  You don’t know that.
 

Also, there’s speculation Panthers had AR as their number two and it was close to him being first taken.  Fact or fiction, who knows.

Oh sure.  Alternative universe once the first domino falls a different way.  

 

I wonder what all of the rumored trade activity on day 2 was about.  Supposedly Pitt was fielding lots of calls for the first pick of the second round, but didn't want to fall so far as to lose Porter.  Usually lots of trade activity for the first pick in the second is for first round talent that didn't get selected in the first round,  Could have been Porter, Levis, or someone else.

[jvan1973]

9 hours ago, DougDew said:

QBs become potentially the top pick because the teams at the top need a QB.  Not necessarily because they are BPA.

 

If teams don't need one, they fall.  Its sort of a unique position compared to positional players, because drafting BPA works as building a roster and churning FAs.  QBs are franchise guys, so you either have a QB for the time being or you don't.

 

GB seems to be the team that takes QBs in the first round to let them sit for a number of years.  It would be tough for SEA to use a high first round pick on AR after committing to Geno for a few years.  JMO.  And then there is the idea that since they had two first rounders, they could have taken a flyer on a project....so even if SEA took AR at 5 or 15, you could still see that maybe he truly wasn't first round talent because SEA took him with "excess" capital.  Again, teams make the picks for reasons specific to their teams and its tough to extrapolate it into something more than that, IMO.

Fact is.   Every qb needy team passed on Levis.  AR was better in the eyes of the Colts.   I didn't think the Colts would take AR over Levis but they did.   They have much better info than we do.   I trust they made the right choice.   Even Tampa passed on Levis.

[CR91]

 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, CR91 said:

 

Do you believe this?   Suddenly the organization that doesn’t leak is flooding with leaks.   
 

Richardson has yet to do anything in the practice field to get coaches super excited.   It’s only been rookies.   He’s done nothing against veterans.   All these hit take rumors are just rumors.   Maybe someday they’ll be true, but I don’t Richardson is there yet.  
 

JMO. 

[CR91]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

Do you believe this?   Suddenly the organization that doesn’t leak is flooding with leaks.   
 

Richardson has yet to do anything in the practice field to get coaches super excited.   It’s only been rookies.   He’s done nothing against veterans.   All these hit take rumors are just rumors.   Maybe someday they’ll be true, but I don’t Richardson is there yet.  
 

JMO. 

 

Well it's from George Bremer