Thought exercise: lamar jackson

[teganslaw]

 The Colts haven't done well with veteran QBs. Rivers, Wentz and Ryan: none of them have worked out. Rivers took the team to the playoffs, but then retired. I have a feeling that if the Colts signed Jackson, it would turn out badly. He wouldn't play up to his level (the offense would have to adjust to his style of play), or he would be injured again.  He would also cost a lot in money, draft picks and incentives. 

 

I wouldn't hate it, but it's not the best move. 

[Boondoggle]

5 hours ago, philba101 said:

I feel bad for Lamar. I think he is a good player who deserves to get paid. I think you are probably right that he never wanted to leave Baltimore. He turned down what I thought was a pretty good guaranteed offer. I wonder whether he rejected that deal because he wanted more money or more years for security, maybe both.

He is greedy and he is not very smart. 

 

Also I don't understand why anyone would feel sorry for him.  Someone will pay him.  He'll make more in his first year than many fans will see in their entire lifetimes.  But sure, cry a tear for the guy.  I am sure he appreciates your sentiment.

[BeanDiasucci]

On 3/14/2023 at 3:22 PM, Smonroe said:

Yep.  He’s missed about a third of the games the last three seasons.  More importantly, he misses the end of the season.  

 

He’s not a great pocket passer, and guys don’t usually get faster and healthier as they get older.  
 

Please, Mr. Irsay, don’t strap the team’s future to his coattails.  

He's played 39 of their 48 games the past three years, 81.25% He's missed 18.75% of their games. 

[New Zealands #1 Colts Fan]

I'm not sure where he will end up, but I think it's a good chance it will be in the AFC South.............

[Smonroe]

52 minutes ago, BeanDiasucci said:

He's played 39 of their 48 games the past three years, 81.25% He's missed 18.75% of their games. 

My bad, I should have said the last two years.  

[BeanDiasucci]

44 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

My bad, I should have said the last two years.  

Even then, he's missed a quarter of their games not a third. I don't think the Colts should sign him. I do think people should try to get their facts straight before posting them as if they are true.

[richard pallo]

Just read on Pro Football Talk that LaMar can call teams.  I don’t realize that.  I thought he had to wait for the call.

[Smonroe]

20 minutes ago, BeanDiasucci said:

Even then, he's missed a quarter of their games not a third. I don't think the Colts should sign him. I do think people should try to get their facts straight before posting them as if they are true.

Well, if you want to get your facts straight, missing 10 out of 34 games is more than a quarter of the games in two seasons.  

 

More importantly, it’s when he’s missing games.  

[BeanDiasucci]

1 hour ago, Smonroe said:

Well, if you want to get your facts straight, missing 10 out of 34 games is more than a quarter of the games in two seasons.  

 

More importantly, it’s when he’s missing games.  

Man, you're right. I misread the numbers and need to get my facts straight before I criticize others. My apologies.

[joeb]

On 3/9/2023 at 1:53 PM, sb41champs said:

There are a lot of potential trade options for the Colts - but - for me - personally - I think the Colts draft a QB and have stability at the position we haven't had since Peyton Manning.

 

Don't forget that Lamar Jackson will cost BOTH $$$ - and - draft capital.

The Colts have to get this decision right. If not it could really set the franchise back in a bad way. I would draft the qb. 2 first rounders and 45 mil. a yr. for Lamar. No thanks. If Lamar gets hurt your screwed. This is going to be a tough one. He is only as good as the guys around him. Based on what i just saw this past season this offense stinks. I think the Georgia Bulldogs could have beat the Colts. Actually I would like to have seen them play.

[Captain_Colts1317]

20 minutes ago, joeb said:

The Colts have to get this decision right. If not it could really set the franchise back in a bad way. I would draft the qb. 2 first rounders and 45 mil. a yr. for Lamar. No thanks. If Lamar gets hurt your screwed. This is going to be a tough one. He is only as good as the guys around him. Based on what i just saw this past season this offense stinks. I think the Georgia Bulldogs could have beat the Colts. Actually I would like to have seen them play.

I don’t think the offense is that bad honestly. It was a decent offense 2 years ago with Wentz. I think a combination of injuries, coaching, and QB play made the offense look a lot worse than it was. A healthy Lamar and this offense would probably look pretty good by the end of the year with a few depth additions to the OL. 

[AKB]

 

[Boondoggle]

That Ryan tribute really needs a Benny Hill soundtrack.

[Indyfan4life]

2 minutes ago, Boondoggle said:

That Ryan tribute really needs a Benny Hill soundtrack.

Yakety Sax. 

[colts89]

A 26 year former MVP. He's a pretty good passer too, and our receiving corps are overall better than the Ravens by a decent amount imo. We have a coach who can scheme very well for a QB that is a mobile threat. We could trade down to a lower 1st rounder which should help keep a first rounder for next year still. The contract is hefty, but his talent is worth it imo. I know he's missed 12 games the last two years, but if the Colts staff can give him a clean bill of health, then I'd be okay if the Colts went that direction.

[joeb]

1 hour ago, Captain_Colts1317 said:

I don’t think the offense is that bad honestly. It was a decent offense 2 years ago with Wentz. I think a combination of injuries, coaching, and QB play made the offense look a lot worse than it was. A healthy Lamar and this offense would probably look pretty good by the end of the year with a few depth additions to the OL. 

I quite honestly can't get over how bad the O-line was. Maybe Matt Ryan would not have looked so bad. The man had absolutely No time to throw. It was like 3 seconds and sack/fumble. I had high hopes but wow that was sad.

[AKB]

25 minutes ago, joeb said:

I quite honestly can't get over how bad the O-line was. Maybe Matt Ryan would not have looked so bad. The man had absolutely No time to throw. It was like 3 seconds and sack/fumble. I had high hopes but wow that was sad.

 

that excuse ended when Saturday came in. Line trended heavily upwards. He was still trash.

 

 

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, AustinnKaine said:

 

that excuse ended when Saturday came in. Line trended heavily upwards. He was still trash.

 

 

That narrative has gotten old and stale. 

[chad72]

9 hours ago, colts89 said:

A 26 year former MVP. He's a pretty good passer too, and our receiving corps are overall better than the Ravens by a decent amount imo. We have a coach who can scheme very well for a QB that is a mobile threat. We could trade down to a lower 1st rounder which should help keep a first rounder for next year still. The contract is hefty, but his talent is worth it imo. I know he's missed 12 games the last two years, but if the Colts staff can give him a clean bill of health, then I'd be okay if the Colts went that direction.

 

The Ravens would be more inclined to go down the path of "not matching" a 4 year $200 million guaranteed contract if the Colts gave up No.4 and future 1st rounder. Definitely better than forking 2 first rounders for an unproven rookie.

 

If we get a SB appearance and/or win in 4 years with Lamar Jackson in the loaded AFC, will anyone complain? I doubt we will. Of course, Irsay, Ballard and Steichen should be on the same page if they are taking this risk. If the Ravens match, oh well, we gave it a shot. But my issue is - if they do give Lamar a serious look now, doesn't that put you in "win now" mode and wouldn't the trade of Gilmore have been counter productive for that? We will see. 

[AKB]

8 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

That narrative has gotten old and stale. 

it's a narrative supported by stats and facts.

 

you'd have to disprove it, otherwise you're basically saying, "i'm tired of hearing that the O-line improved after saturday came aboard"

 

which in that case, oh well?

[richard pallo]

18 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

The Ravens would be more inclined to go down the path of "not matching" a 4 year $200 million guaranteed contract if the Colts gave up No.4 and future 1st rounder. Definitely better than forking 2 first rounders for an unproven rookie.

 

If we get a SB appearance and/or win in 4 years with Lamar Jackson in the loaded AFC, will anyone complain? I doubt we will. Of course, Irsay, Ballard and Steichen should be on the same page if they are taking this risk. If the Ravens match, oh well, we gave it a shot. But my issue is - if they do give Lamar a serious look now, doesn't that put you in "win now" mode and wouldn't the trade of Gilmore have been counter productive for that? We will see. 

Good time to move Gilmore when we could find someone willing to take his salary.  Helps with the cap space too.  The veterans we are thinking about moving are cap heavy and not major contributors any longer.  So they are scheduled to be replaced sooner rather than later.  With LaMar we would be in a win now mode but with a 26 year old top ten quarterback.  Not an older veteran.  That’s a great spot to be in.  We can build around him for a number of years.  This LaMar situation has really aligned up well for the Colts.  They should at least take their shot and if they match oh well.  I do like our chances if we do a shorter contract.  Three years would be my offer less to escrow and you can move on if injuries are just too much.  We will see.

[TimetobringDfence!]

1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

Good time to move Gilmore when we could find someone willing to take his salary.  Helps with the cap space too.  The veterans we are thinking about moving are cap heavy and not major contributors any longer.  So they are scheduled to be replaced sooner rather than later.  With LaMar we would be in a win now mode but with a 26 year old top ten quarterback.  Not an older veteran.  That’s a great spot to be in.  We can build around him for a number of years.  This LaMar situation has really aligned up well for the Colts.  They should at least take their shot and if they match oh well.  I do like our chances if we do a shorter contract.  Three years would be my offer less to escrow and you can move on if injuries are just too much.  We will see.

My problem with Lamar isn't talent it's character. He quit on his team and didn't go to playoff game.

[chad72]

24 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

My problem with Lamar isn't talent it's character. He quit on his team and didn't go to playoff game.

 

It is funny though how players do react when serious money is on the line. Let us face it, for the owners, coaches and players, money is the first thing to be taken care of before they can get behind a team to win the SB. We all know about playoff intensity and its physicality. To me, it has to be viewed as the same business decision that McCaffrey didn't go to his Stanford Bowl game before his draft or the countless players that did the same thing before the draft not wanting to chance injury before THE big contract of their lives (for the first rounders, it is the draft Round 1 contract, for Lamar, it is his first post rookie contract).

 

It is Lamar's first big contract after his rookie contract, after all. IF (hopefully not) it is his last one too, he may as well cash in when he can. He did have a legitimate injury that forced him to miss games with knee swelling. There was a good chance he may have cost himself millions of dollars too had he participated in the playoffs. But for us, he is disposable entertainment, same for owners. He gets banged up in the playoffs and they don't make it to the SB, the pats in the back we fans give him or that the owners give him amount to absolutely nothing tangible for him if he ends up on the short end of the stick w.r.t his first big contract. I bet you that if he had the contract in his back pocket, he would have gone the extra mile.

[TimetobringDfence!]

2 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

It is funny though how players do react when serious money is on the line. Let us face it, for the owners, coaches and players, money is the first thing to be taken care of before they can get behind a team to win the SB. We all know about playoff intensity and its physicality. To me, it has to be viewed as the same business decision that McCaffrey didn't go to his Stanford Bowl game before his draft or the countless players that did the same thing before the draft not wanting to chance injury before THE big contract of their lives (for the first rounders, it is the draft Round 1 contract, for Lamar, it is his first post rookie contract).

 

It is Lamar's first big contract after his rookie contract, after all. IF (hopefully not) it is his last one too, he may as well cash in when he can. He did have a legitimate injury that forced him to miss games with knee swelling. There was a good chance he may have cost himself millions of dollars too had he participated in the playoffs. But for us, he is disposable entertainment, same for owners. He gets banged up in the playoffs and they don't make it to the SB, the pats in the back we fans give him or that the owners give him amount to absolutely nothing tangible for him if he ends up on the short end of the stick w.r.t his first big contract. I bet you that if he had the contract in his back pocket, he would have gone the extra mile.

Fair point, but he could have been at the game supporting his teamates.

[chad72]

1 minute ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

Fair point, but he could have been at the game supporting his teammates.

 

Yes, he should have done that. I just think that mama's boy been getting bad advice.  

[Scott Pennock]

My thoughts on the matter......our rumored interest in Gardner Minshew likely means we are more likely to sign him as a bridge/solid back-up and draft a rookie. If I'm reading the tea leaves correctly?

 

Having said that, here are my Lamar thoughts:

 

Cons:

Has a bit of injury history - due to style of play, not because he's fragile - which can be mitigated by play-calling

Will require a large amount of money to lock him down

 

Pros:

26 years old 

45-16 Quarterback Record

101-38 TD to INT ratio

64% Career Completion Percentage

24 Rushing TD's and a 6.1 Career YPR

 

Proven NFL Production

Proven Leader

 

Shane Steichen could mold an offense around his skillset to utilize both his mobility and his arm 

 

I believe he is much more talented than Jalen Hurts and if Jalen could lead the Eagles to the SB then I think Lamar could too.

 

Lamar likes throwing to his TE's and loves to throw the deep ball - We have a solid group of TE's and we have a guy that can go deep (Pierce) and we have the move the chains big bodied receiver in Pittman as well.

 

I think he'd be worth our number 4 this year and a mid to late round 1st next year! My only drawback would be how much will we have to pay him?

[Mel Kiper's Hair]

In my opinion signing Lamar is the fastest way to turn this franchise around. Sure we can draft a QB at 4 but odds are the guy is going to be a project QB and not ready to make a real difference on day 1. Lamar is not some old guy trying to stay in the league. He is actually younger than Joe Burrow. Coach Steichen could really get the most out of him and his talents. J ust look what he did with Jalen Hurts and I think most people would say that Lamar is a better player than Hurts. I think this is the best move the franchise can make if we want to actually be relevant and compete.