Argument to have Saturday as HC with good OC.

[coming on strong]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

Everyone has different opinions but assuming Jeff would be a bad coach is not a fact and is premature to assume that. 

why should the colts be the guinea pig to see if jeff would be a good coach ?  that is the difference we are gonna have a rookie QB and be starting over .    how many seasoned coaches fail and what did you see from jeff that made you think he was fine .  we saw 8 games already half a season

[crazycolt1]

3 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

why should the colts be the guinea pig to see if jeff would be a good coach ?  that is the difference we are gonna have a rookie QB and be starting over .    how many seasoned coaches fail and what did you see from jeff that made you think he was fine .  we saw 8 games already half a season

Where did I say he was fine? Where did I say I was advocating the hiring of Jeff? 

All I said was assuming he couldn't do the job was a premature assumption.  

No more, no less. 

[Dingus McGirt]

JS had an extended opportunity to identify the team’s - AND HIS OWN - strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats to success.  
 

He, to all appearances, bleeds Colts blue.  
 

I believe he is uniquely equipped to hit the ground running and maybe even/likely succeed as the next HC for this franchise.

 

I say to give him the chance.  There is nowhere to go but up, and the sky is the limit.

 

No Journeyman/retreads … please.

[Btown_Colt]

2 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

While you are holding him totally accountable for the problems that were there when he got there. 

Sounds about right 

Problems he was well aware of when he took the job, no?

[crazycolt1]

23 minutes ago, Btown_Colt said:

Problems he was well aware of when he took the job, no?

And? 

[Btown_Colt]

Just now, crazycolt1 said:

And? 

Lol. So you agree the problems were there before he took the job and are what led to the firing of the HC. 
 

So do you think Jim fired Frank and hired Saturday without expectations of winning? Do you think Saturday had interest in trying to win? 
 

Why the heck wouldn’t he be held accountable? Of course no one expected a Super Bowl. 7 losses in a row, 2 in historic fashion, and you think it’s oh well so what? 
 

 

[crazycolt1]

13 minutes ago, Btown_Colt said:

Lol. So you agree the problems were there before he took the job and are what led to the firing of the HC. 
 

So do you think Jim fired Frank and hired Saturday without expectations of winning? Do you think Saturday had interest in trying to win? 
 

Why the heck wouldn’t he be held accountable? Of course no one expected a Super Bowl. 7 losses in a row, 2 in historic fashion, and you think it’s oh well so what? 
 

 

Jim hired Jeff with the expectation of finding out what was going on. What he found out was the disfunction of Frank holding players accountable. 

I highly doubt that Jim expected wins. Just maybe Jim was thinking about getting a top draft pick? Jim is eccentric, not stupid.  

[Btown_Colt]

2 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Jim hired Jeff with the expectation of finding out what was going on. What he found out was the disfunction of Frank holding players accountable. 

I highly doubt that Jim expected wins. Just maybe Jim was thinking about getting a top draft pick? Jim is eccentric, not stupid.  

So he Fired Frank and hired Saturday to ensure a top pick then? Good deal, now I’m not as worried about Saturday actually getting the HC job, since it was just a ploy in order to get a better draft pick.

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, Btown_Colt said:

So he Fired Frank and hired Saturday to ensure a top pick then? Good deal, now I’m not as worried about Saturday actually getting the HC job, since it was just a ploy in order to get a better draft pick.

Like I said, Jim is eccentric not stupid. It's common knowledge that Jim has been trying to hire Jeff for quite a while. Jim is probably trying to get Jeff to take a different position other than HC? 

[BeanDiasucci]

44 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Jim hired Jeff with the expectation of finding out what was going on. What he found out was the disfunction of Frank holding players accountable. 

I highly doubt that Jim expected wins. Just maybe Jim was thinking about getting a top draft pick? Jim is eccentric, not stupid.  

Jim was pretty adamant. You think all this is just a smokescreen:

 

"We’re in this thing; 9-7-1 get us in, no question about it… We’re not tanking the season. Whoever says these things, that we’re not playing [quarterback] Matt [Ryan] because [of an effort to tank]… That’s not true. We’re going to do what it takes to win. I don’t know who people think we are, they don’t know us. We don’t tank in Indianapolis," Irsay said.

 

and

 

"That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard, that we're tanking," Irsay said. "That's bulls--t. We're in this thing; 9-7-1 get us in, no question about it. … We're not tanking the season."

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10055168-jim-irsay-rips-idea-colts-are-tanking-after-jeff-saturday-hire-thats-bulls--t#:~:text="That's the most absurd thing,re not tanking the season."

[crazycolt1]

11 minutes ago, BeanDiasucci said:

Jim was pretty adamant. You think all this is just a smokescreen:

 

"We’re in this thing; 9-7-1 get us in, no question about it… We’re not tanking the season. Whoever says these things, that we’re not playing [quarterback] Matt [Ryan] because [of an effort to tank]… That’s not true. We’re going to do what it takes to win. I don’t know who people think we are, they don’t know us. We don’t tank in Indianapolis," Irsay said.

 

and

 

"That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard, that we're tanking," Irsay said. "That's bulls--t. We're in this thing; 9-7-1 get us in, no question about it. … We're not tanking the season."

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10055168-jim-irsay-rips-idea-colts-are-tanking-after-jeff-saturday-hire-thats-bulls--t#:~:text="That's the most absurd thing,re not tanking the season."

Of course Jim is not going to admit to tanking.  He is going to say exactly what the fans want to hear.  He has tickets to sell.  Look, I'm not trying to be arguimentive with you but do you honestly believe everything coming out of owners, GMs and coaches mouths? 

[Btown_Colt]

57 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Like I said, Jim is eccentric not stupid. It's common knowledge that Jim has been trying to hire Jeff for quite a while. Jim is probably trying to get Jeff to take a different position other than HC? 

So for the first time ever since Jim has been in charge, he fired a HC mid season. According to you, he not only did this to tank, but also to hire Saturday as interim HC so that he could finally get him as on the OL coach or some other assistant coaching position? And he did this, reportedly, against the will of his GM and other trusted advisors…who had also been trying to hire Saturday as part of the same coaching staff. 

 

Do you notice how you never respond to a question, instead you deflect or move the goal post?

 

 

[ojsglove]

4 hours ago, coming on strong said:

frank did play a part but he is still a better coach than jeff .  that is my only point i never said frank is a great i said i put him and jim caldwell in the same category  . they both are slightly above average coaches  but saturday is a below average coach . 

 

talent levels play a massive role too  , frank has had bad QBs below average wr cores his entire time here outside of luck and rivers who he took to the playoffs .   the offensive line was bad last year too with pass blocking .   wentz was killed every other play getting hit or sacked .    

 

look at bill billichicks record post tom brady its average .  talent wins games good coaches can turn a talented roster into super bowl wins .

And who is responsible for the talent level we have on this team?  And do you honestly think Ballard is going to suddenly do a 360 and change the way he drafts and uses FA to improve this team?

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, Btown_Colt said:

So for the first time ever since Jim has been in charge, he fired a HC mid season. According to you, he not only did this to tank, but also to hire Saturday as interim HC so that he could finally get him as on the OL coach or some other assistant coaching position? And he did this, reportedly, against the will of his GM and other trusted advisors…who had also been trying to hire Saturday as part of the same coaching staff. 

 

Do you notice how you never respond to a question, instead you deflect or move the goal post?

 

 

You are adding your own narrative to my comment.  Cool, that's pretty condescending imo.

[BeanDiasucci]

42 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Of course Jim is not going to admit to tanking.  He is going to say exactly what the fans want to hear.  He has tickets to sell.  Look, I'm not trying to be arguimentive with you but do you honestly believe everything coming out of owners, GMs and coaches mouths? 

I don't believe much of what comes out of their mouths but I do think Irsay and Saturday were trying to win.

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, BeanDiasucci said:

I don't believe much of what comes out of their mouths but I do think Irsay and Saturday were trying to win.

Fair enough.  We all speculate and try to make sense of it all. 

[Btown_Colt]

27 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

You are adding your own narrative to my comment.  Cool, that's pretty condescending imo.

Condescending….you mean like this post below?

 

 

“Oh, c'mon. Let's be honest. You are holding Jeff completely unaccountable.”

 

“While you are holding him totally accountable for the problems that were there when he got there. Sounds about right”

 

 

[Boondoggle]

In today's NFL you must have a coordinator tied into your head coach spot.  He must be able to carry one side of the ball.  If not then your staff gets poached even worse (if you win).

 

Saturday for example would bleed both sides of the ball and that's assuming he can win which is doubtful.  End result would be up and down hires, inconsistency year to year, and an angry owner who will fire him once the friend rope runs out.

 

Tell you right now if I had to hire a coordinator (assuming neither Harbaugh or Payton will consider working for Irsay) I think I'd hire the Eagles DC.  He is young but excellent, very sharp, and just schooled the best OC in the league to get to the big dance.  Also he has studied under good coaching.  But of course any of these coordinators are going to require patience as they learn on the job.

 

What I expect them to do is hire Raheem Morris.  He's got advantages and disadvantages, but if we're gonna risk the next couple years on an unknown I'd go with the guy who fields the best unit possible and that's not Morris.

[TimetobringDfence!]

On 1/29/2023 at 10:39 PM, lennymoore24 said:

I never thought I would think this way, but after seeing the guys invited back for a 2nd interview so far, my favorite candidate right now is Jeff Saturday. I know, it sounds insane, but let me give you my thinking.

First of all, RARELY does it ever work where a failed former NFL coach gets a second shot and turns it around.  There is always a guy like Belichick, but that is the exception.  So I have no idea why someone would want Morris as the HC. He was a complete failure as TB HC.   Ok, so secondly, the problem we had last year was we COULDN"T SCORE!  So why are we bringing in all these defensive coordinators to interview?  I would argue not one of them is a better DC than the one we have now, so why would we want them as HC?  All the remaining teams were lead by either legendary or younger, innovative offensive coaches.  So that makes ZERO sense to me.

Ok, in watching this Bengals game, I know Callahan isn't the play caller, but has much input.  Their play calling looked like it came out of the Frank Reich school of play calling. Sometimes very predictable.  Other times, mind numbingly bad.  That last Bengals possession, they had the ball with like 2 minutes left and I thought they would methodically move the ball down the field and win it with a field goal. They had just gotten a first down with a run.  So I think on 1st down, they got like 3 yards.  The next two plays were failed long passes, which KC was waiting for.  Why not mix in runs or screens?  Handed the game away.

 

Eric Bienemy is a OC for a high powered offense. My issue with him is that Andy Reid is the genius there.  ANY OC with the Chiefs is going to look good. It is like how Peyton Manning had two OCs in Denver who both got HC jobs and both bombed terribly.

 

And who wants a special teams coach as our HC unless it is Bubba?  It is like we are interviewing people outside the franchise that aren't even as good at their unit as what we have inhouse.  

 

I am not a conspiracy person, but I could almost swear they are lining up the 2nd interviews so it comes down to Jeff Saturday against some former failed HCs or DCs.  In that case, give me Jeff Saturday and a good OC and keep the other two in place, if he would.

 

I have loved the Colts since I was very little.  But I get a feeling the Colts are going to blow it with picking a coach like Morris and then blow it drafting a QB like Stroud.

 

#SaturdayAndKellenMoore for me at this point. And I did like Ben Johnson. Too bad he pulled out.

My real problem with Saturday is the team still lost moral and and will and showed no signs of life. I THOUGHT HE COULD GET MORE OIT OF THE OLINE AND DIDNT. If he couldn't spark the oline I don't have faith in him at all...

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, Btown_Colt said:

Condescending….you mean like this post below?

 

 

“Oh, c'mon. Let's be honest. You are holding Jeff completely unaccountable.”

 

“While you are holding him totally accountable for the problems that were there when he got there. Sounds about right”

 

 

So you can't see sarcasm? You take this and yourself way too serious.  

[gspdx]

I am neither for or against JS as head coach, but I have one question. 

 

If the Interim coach had been anybody else that was brought in from the outside that had no previous connection to the Colts and the team performed they way it did with JS as coach ( 1-7 with several epic loses and seemingly collapsed down the stretch) would you consider that guy to be a top candidate for the permanent head coaching job?

[chad72]

8 minutes ago, gspdx said:

I am neither for or against JS as head coach, but I have one question. 

 

If the Interim coach had been anybody else that was brought in from the outside that had no previous connection to the Colts and the team performed they way it did with JS as coach ( 1-7 with several epic loses and seemingly collapsed down the stretch) would you consider that guy to be a top candidate for the permanent head coaching job?

 

Absolutely not is my answer. If Bubba pulled that kind of job after being given the interim HC, we would all be saying that he didn't show enough for us that we could take the chance on him to be our future HC. 

 

If, however, we won a few close games and were 4-3, the consideration would be different. 

[Hoosier Kriegs]

17 hours ago, strt182 said:

..having to put a guy in thats never called plays really...

 

First off, we didn't HAVE to put in a guy that has never called plays.  We...or rather Irsay...was dumb enough to do that all on his own.  NFL Head Coach isn't an entry level position and thus should not have someone that is learning on the job.  We don't bring in players just learning how to play football, we shouldn't be bringing in a head coach just learning how to be a coach.

 

If Jeff wants to be a head coach in the NFL then he should look for an entry level position and get some experience coaching first.  If he thinks he is too good to be anything but a NFL head coach then he should keep his @.. where it was before Irsay handed him the interim position.

[throwing BBZ]

41 minutes ago, iuswingman said:

 

First off, we didn't HAVE to put in a guy that has never called plays.  We...or rather Irsay...was dumb enough to do that all on his own.  NFL Head Coach isn't an entry level position and thus should not have someone that is learning on the job.  We don't bring in players just learning how to play football, we shouldn't be bringing in a head coach just learning how to be a coach.

 

If Jeff wants to be a head coach in the NFL then he should look for an entry level position and get some experience coaching first.  If he thinks he is too good to be anything but a NFL head coach then he should keep his @.. where it was before Irsay handed him the interim position.

 

  So Saturday playing all those years wasn't learning how to be a HC. 

 And Noone EVER becomes a first time HC that STILL doesn't have a lot to learn to be a good HC under pressure. THAT is why so many get fired, even after ONE YEAR.

  And we bring in scads of new players every year that are 2-3 years away from being able to play well at the NFL level.

 Clearly it's seriously annoying reading the doodoo coming out of couch GM'S heads. They just can't accept that they just don't know enough to spew what they so often do.  

  

[Hoosier Kriegs]

43 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

  So Saturday playing all those years wasn't learning how to be a HC. 

 And Noone EVER becomes a first time HC that STILL doesn't have a lot to learn to be a good HC under pressure. THAT is why so many get fired, even after ONE YEAR.

  And we bring in scads of new players every year that are 2-3 years away from being able to play well at the NFL level.

 Clearly it's seriously annoying reading the doodoo coming out of couch GM'S heads. They just can't accept that they just don't know enough to spew what they so often do.  

  

no, playing football isn't learning how to be a HC.  It doesn't preclude them from being a good HC but it isn't nearly enough to say "he is qualified"

 

Player ->....lets skip everything -> Head Coach.  That's quite the leap.  You would have a better argument if he was trying to be a positional coach...like say the OL coach.

 

That's like saying working at the counter in an Apple store teaches you how to be CEO of Apple.

 

It doesn't take Einstein to realize Jeff is vastly underqualified.

[John Waylon]

So, to summarize, Raheem Morris shouldn’t be our HC because he was a HC once already and failed, but Saturday should be because he was also a HC once already and…

 

also failed. 
 

Got it. 
 

[tfunky14]

Look up Don Shula people and get back to me. 

[t-rex]

20 hours ago, BeanDiasucci said:

They were 1-7 under Saturday, lost seven in a row, and were outscored by 87 points. How were they going to be worse with Frank? I've been frustrated with Frank the last couple of seasons, but during his five years in Indy, the Colts never lost more than four in a row. Sure, this season was already headed in a lousy direction at 3-5-1, but you just can't spin 1-7. It won't work. 

 

Frank was not the answer here. But he was 3-3-1 when he had control of the roster.

 

Irsay changed quarterbacks leading us to 0-2. Frank was then fired at 3-5-1.  Saturday was inheriting a team that was .500 through the first 7 games. This included a win over the Chiefs and a split with eventual AFC South champ Jacksonville. The AFC South was won with a 9-8 record on the last day of the season.

 

Saturday was not inheriting a Super Bowl team. But he wasn't inheriting anything close to a team that should have been 1-7. This includes two of the worst losses (this is not an exaggeration, but literally true) in NFL history.

 

No reasonable objective person can conclude they would have been that bad under Frank.

[Nickster]

16 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Jim hired Jeff with the expectation of finding out what was going on. What he found out was the disfunction of Frank holding players accountable. 

I highly doubt that Jim expected wins. Just maybe Jim was thinking about getting a top draft pick? Jim is eccentric, not stupid.  

Seriously Is this idea just something a few of you guys say or is there any evidence of it?

 

it seems implausible to me.  Unless there is some incredibly massive conspiracy against letting Jim or Chris in on “what was going on” under Frank.  Shh here comes put phone down and act like you’re lifting weights.  Or something?

 

and if he was simply hired to be a consultant then why the hell would he be up for the permanent job?

 

 

[chad72]

5 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Seriously Is this idea just something a few of you guys say or is there any evidence of it?

 

it seems implausible to me.  Unless there is some incredibly massive conspiracy against letting Jim or Chris in on “what was going on” under Frank.  Shh here comes put phone down and act like you’re lifting weights.  Or something?

 

and if he was simply hired to be a consultant then why the hell would he be up for the permanent job?

 

 

Very valid question. 

 

Football centers are a little bit like basketball guards to marshal the offense, but unlike basketball guards that can become player head coaches like Jason Kidd, Steve Kerr and Steve Nash, football is a much tougher game to be a head coach overseeing all phases because a center only sees the offensive side. That is why some experience working along other OCs, DCs, ST coaches plus HCs is important as you move up the ladder to gain and grow your learning and viewpoints, IMO.

[Nickster]

4 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Very valid question. 

 

Football centers are a little bit like basketball guards to marshal the offense, but unlike basketball guards that can become player head coaches like Jason Kidd, Steve Kerr and Steve Nash, football is a much tougher game to be a head coach overseeing all phases because a center only sees the offensive side. That is why some experience working along other OCs, DCs, ST coaches plus HCs is important as you move up the ladder to gain and grow your learning and viewpoints, IMO.

Saturday was a great player too and likely the only successful coach who was a greater player is Ditka.  Great players rarely make even decent coaches.

 

Do you know of any evidence that JS was hired as an “evaluator” other than a few posters here keep saying it?

[chad72]

2 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Saturday was a great player too and likely the only successful coach who was a greater player is Ditka.  Great players rarely make even decent coaches.

 

Do you know of any evidence that JS was hired as an “evaluator” other than a few posters here keep saying it?

 

No, it was initially sold (as you indicated) as an easy justification for bringing in a guy off the ESPN booth with no NFL coaching experience, just because he was buddies with the owner and a former Colts player. Now, it is getting harder and harder to sell.

[Nickster]

6 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

No, it was initially sold as an easy justification for bringing in a guy off the ESPN booth with no NFL coaching experience, just because he was buddies with the owner and a former Colts player. Now, it is getting harder and harder to sell.

That whole idea never made since to me but Jim seems like a pretty erratic dude.

 

but there are a handful around here that post it like it’s confirmed fact and the funny thing is those posters often seem like the ones that are always taking it upon themselves a duty to quash speculation on here that doesn’t jive with them. lol.

 

Funny, that.

[strt182]

6 hours ago, gspdx said:

I am neither for or against JS as head coach, but I have one question. 

 

If the Interim coach had been anybody else that was brought in from the outside that had no previous connection to the Colts and the team performed they way it did with JS as coach ( 1-7 with several epic loses and seemingly collapsed down the stretch) would you consider that guy to be a top candidate for the permanent head coaching job?

Given the same situation I would have them on the same level yes. I'm not sitting in on the interviews so I don't know who any of them would staff. 

 

However some fans fail to see this on Jeff's resume.  

 Saturday was a member of the executive committee of the National Football League Players' Association, where he was the key negotiator in completing the 2011 Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) between the NFL and NFLPA. 

This could mean more to some then others but it does tell me that he can rally guys behind him. 

Buying in to the system and vision play a big roll in execution. 

 

[strt182]

3 hours ago, Nickster said:

Saturday was a great player too and likely the only successful coach who was a greater player is Ditka.  Great players rarely make even decent coaches.

 

Do you know of any evidence that JS was hired as an “evaluator” other than a few posters here keep saying it?

Well he was already on the Colts payroll as a consultant . He was hired by ESPN to an analyse plays and players of the NFL. I'm not sure it was his sole job but I do think it could be a big reason Jim didn't promote somebody already in the building. 

[crazycolt1]

4 hours ago, Nickster said:

Seriously Is this idea just something a few of you guys say or is there any evidence of it?

 

it seems implausible to me.  Unless there is some incredibly massive conspiracy against letting Jim or Chris in on “what was going on” under Frank.  Shh here comes put phone down and act like you’re lifting weights.  Or something?

 

and if he was simply hired to be a consultant then why the hell would he be up for the permanent job?

 

 

You attempt to make things more complex than they really are.  Irsay is not going to come out and say publicly  he wanted Saturday to be his eyes and ears. 

As far as Saturday being up for the HCs job is very simple, Irsay wants him. It's not hard to figure out. 

[Nickster]

26 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

You attempt to make things more complex than they really are.  Irsay is not going to come out and say publicly  he wanted Saturday to be his eyes and ears. 

As far as Saturday being up for the HCs job is very simple, Irsay wants him. It's not hard to figure out. 

You are sure that JS was hired to be eyes and ears and not a coach?  Like ESP?  Is that simple?
 

[Nickster]

1 hour ago, strt182 said:

Well he was already on the Colts payroll as a consultant . He was hired by ESPN to an analyse plays and players of the NFL. I'm not sure it was his sole job but I do think it could be a big reason Jim didn't promote somebody already in the building. 

Could be.  Seems weird though.  Just walk down the hall and ask what’s going on.  Or uhh as FrAnk.  Or the players.

 

I think its pretty simple.  Irsay likely thought JS would help the team win.

[crazycolt1]

9 minutes ago, Nickster said:

You are sure that JS was hired to be eyes and ears and not a coach?  Like ESP?  Is that simple?
 

Jeff was hired to be both by Irsay.  You don't think Irsay wanted to know why this team was underperforming offensively? 

Why do you think Irsay called Saturday during the Patriots game?

[Nickster]

8 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Jeff was hired to be both by Irsay.  You don't think Irsay wanted to know why this team was underperforming offensively? 

Why do you think Irsay called Saturday during the Patriots game?

Why?  He’s impulsive and out of touch.  Sure he did, but I could have told him as much.

he has an under talented rookie playing with a bad oline and mediocre weapons.

The evidence indicates it was his idea to play slinging Sammy.  BB is famously hard on rookies.

 

The only reason that I think maybe Irsay hired him to fill that roll is because Jim is the only owner goofy enough to do such a goofy thing.

 

it’s becoming pretty clear here what the issue is on the Colts.  It softens my stance on Ballard.