Colts have 4th pick (Official Discussion Thread)

[BProland85]

34 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I don't know if this has been mentioned on here yet, but there's a lot of talk about Fields being traded from the Bears, and them taking Young at 1. If Young and Stroud go 1 and 2, we could be left to take Levis at 4, or even worse, trading up to 3 to secure him away from teams such as the Panthers and Raiders. This could be a nightmare.

 

Would you guys trade for Fields in this scenario? Or go for Levis at 3 or 4?

I would maybe offer up the 35th overall pick to see if the Bears will take that for Fields since they don’t have a 2nd rounder. Wouldn’t offer the 4th overall though and I don’t want Levis or Richardson at 4 overall. 

[VikingsFanInChennai]

16 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Wonder which AFC south scout said this.

 

 

The problem with that statement is that when you read that, you start imagining more about Josh Allen and forgetting about the real Will Levis, and you end up projecting him to be similar to Allen. 

 

Reality is that projection is best case scenario for Levis and you're most probably not getting closer to the best case scenario. 

[csmopar]

Just now, BProland85 said:

I would maybe offer up the 35th overall pick to see if the Bears will take that for Fields since they don’t have a 2nd rounder. Wouldn’t offer the 4th overall though and I don’t want Levis or Richardson at 4 overall. 

I’d rather roll with Sam E than have fields anywhere near this team. 
 

and I don’t want any of the “top 4” QBs… 

 

but we have to have one, so what do you do? I’ve been thinking heavily about this. So if you roll with Sam E, you might trade some guys to stack up for 2024’s draft 

 

i don’t want to waste another year of the prime of our guys like pitman and JT, but I don’t wanna create more holes to fix. There’s a couple guys I think we could trade and get decent value for that are somewhat replaceable with an acceptable drop off, I think on that list is Darius Leonard. He reminds me a bit of a Ron Artest pre-Brawl days. More on that later, but if I could squeeze a 2nd or better, I’m taking it, maybe a high third.

 

Ryan Kelly, I’d like a 3rd here but his contract doesn’t match the play so unless we’d agree to eat some of his salary hit, I don’t think we’ll get that.

 

Buckner would arguably give us the greatest return but he’s not replaceable. Nor is Stewart who is really coming into it.

 

 

[chad72]

1 hour ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

The problem with that statement is that when you read that, you start imagining more about Josh Allen and forgetting about the real Will Levis, and you end up projecting him to be similar to Allen. 

 

Reality is that projection is best case scenario for Levis and you're most probably not getting closer to the best case scenario. 

 

Accuracy and decision making, with just enough arm strength to get it there. Like Peyton said "yeah, they were wounded ducks but they got there..."  

 

Yes, you have to have the ability to throw it deep but NFL Ds are good enough that they force you to be patient and truly only 1 deep shot per quarter gets attempted anyways at best. So, the 20-30 yard range is where the money is made. Are you accurate enough to put the ball where only your guy can get it 20-30 yards down the field also giving your guy a fair chance? Can you move on to a 3rd read quickly with pressure by buying just enough movement in the pocket and deliver it well? You don't need to break the pocket all the time.

 

Young and Stroud impressed me on those fronts, while Levis underwhelmed. I would prefer to have 1 of Young or Stroud over Levis, that goes without saying and that is how it will end up. 

 

This is an interesting read on Levis' tendencies, which I am not liking at all, he is too much of a traits based QB choice than a QB ability choice in the Top 4 picks, IMO. To put it another way, both Levis and Richardson scare me enough to not draft them in the Top 4, IMO. Stroud and Young scare me less and have greater odds of succeeding with a year of good coaching. The others may be 2-3 years away.

 

https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/lists/will-levis-josh-allen-2023-nfl-draft/

 

[Yoshinator]

5 hours ago, BProland85 said:

I would maybe offer up the 35th overall pick to see if the Bears will take that for Fields since they don’t have a 2nd rounder. Wouldn’t offer the 4th overall though and I don’t want Levis or Richardson at 4 overall. 

I think this is the right response. Makes the Bears whole again, and they get their choice of franchise QB, and we get Fields at a discount after two years since his flaws have been shown, and we get to fix him with a new coach, along with keeping the no4 overall pick. 

 

So win/win there for both teams.

[BProland85]

6 hours ago, csmopar said:

I’d rather roll with Sam E than have fields anywhere near this team. 
 

and I don’t want any of the “top 4” QBs… 

 

but we have to have one, so what do you do? I’ve been thinking heavily about this. So if you roll with Sam E, you might trade some guys to stack up for 2024’s draft 

 

i don’t want to waste another year of the prime of our guys like pitman and JT, but I don’t wanna create more holes to fix. There’s a couple guys I think we could trade and get decent value for that are somewhat replaceable with an acceptable drop off, I think on that list is Darius Leonard. He reminds me a bit of a Ron Artest pre-Brawl days. More on that later, but if I could squeeze a 2nd or better, I’m taking it, maybe a high third.

 

Ryan Kelly, I’d like a 3rd here but his contract doesn’t match the play so unless we’d agree to eat some of his salary hit, I don’t think we’ll get that.

 

Buckner would arguably give us the greatest return but he’s not replaceable. Nor is Stewart who is really coming into it.

 

 

You’re nuts if you wouldn’t want Fields working under Steichen with what he just did with Jalen Hurts. I’d say a package of the 35th pick and Kenny Moore might get it done to trade for Fields if they want Young or Stroud. If the Bears want a haul including a 1st then pass. 

[BProland85]

1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I think this is the right response. Makes the Bears whole again, and they get their choice of franchise QB, and we get Fields at a discount after two years since his flaws have been shown, and we get to fix him with a new coach, along with keeping the no4 overall pick. 

 

So win/win there for both teams.

Agreed, and it opens up so many possibilities with that 4th overall pick. Ballard could trade down a few times which he loves to do and still land a stud at a position of need like CB Christian Gonzalez or Devon Witherspoon. 

[crazycolt1]

11 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

Agreed, and it opens up so many possibilities with that 4th overall pick. Ballard could trade down a few times which he loves to do and still land a stud at a position of need like CB Christian Gonzalez or Devon Witherspoon. 

According to what Ballard has said earlier there are only 10-12 players that are legit #1 picks. I'm not sure exactly how he comes up with that opinion but there may be truth to it. 

[Stephen]

Here  before the forum riots from us taking haner in the third

[stitches]

10 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Here  before the forum riots from us taking haner in the third

Haener 4th round. Let him play... Caleb Williams in next draft. I'd be good with that... 

[#12.]

Young actually seems like a Ballard guy in most every way but physical stature.  If Irsay pushes for it and Steichen, the guy who will have him for the next 6 years, convinces Ballard it can work and he can stay healthy, I'm starting to think it could happen.  

[BProland85]

2 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I think this is the right response. Makes the Bears whole again, and they get their choice of franchise QB, and we get Fields at a discount after two years since his flaws have been shown, and we get to fix him with a new coach, along with keeping the no4 overall pick. 

 

So win/win there for both teams.

https://www.nflanalysis.net/colts-bears-trade-sends-justin-fields-indianapolis/
 

Again I wouldn’t offer the 4th overall pick for Fields, and would be hesitant to offer both 23 and 24 2nds. But the 35th overall pick and Kenny Moore I could do. I think Fields is a stronger armed, and faster version of Hurts under Steichen. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Shane coached Hurts and Hurts has become a top 5 QB, Young is close to the same type of player. I think Shane could do wonders with Young and Taylor.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Shane coached Hurts and Hurts has become a top 5 QB, Young is close to the same type of player. I think Shane could do wonders with Young and Taylor.

Young is not the same player as hurts. Young would get injured so much having run plays designed for him like hurts. Hurts has a much thicker frame and is built like a tank.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Young is not the same player as hurts. Young would get injured so much having run plays designed for him like hurts. Hurts has a much thicker frame and is built like a tank.

Poppycock, when Young gains weight in the NFL, most in here will say I was right. Young just has to be smart about his runs. I am not worried about his size at all.

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 hours ago, csmopar said:

I’d rather roll with Sam E than have fields anywhere near this team. 
 

and I don’t want any of the “top 4” QBs… 

 

but we have to have one, so what do you do? I’ve been thinking heavily about this. So if you roll with Sam E, you might trade some guys to stack up for 2024’s draft 

 

i don’t want to waste another year of the prime of our guys like pitman and JT, but I don’t wanna create more holes to fix. There’s a couple guys I think we could trade and get decent value for that are somewhat replaceable with an acceptable drop off, I think on that list is Darius Leonard. He reminds me a bit of a Ron Artest pre-Brawl days. More on that later, but if I could squeeze a 2nd or better, I’m taking it, maybe a high third.

 

Ryan Kelly, I’d like a 3rd here but his contract doesn’t match the play so unless we’d agree to eat some of his salary hit, I don’t think we’ll get that.

 

Buckner would arguably give us the greatest return but he’s not replaceable. Nor is Stewart who is really coming into it.

 

 

So you would rather roll with Sam and go 3-14 as a probability, no thanks. I would take Young or Stroud, going through another bad season would suck.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I am convinced the Texans take Young anyway because he is the best QB coming out but Stroud is good. Bears will stay with Fields IMO. To early to give up on him.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I would leave it up to Shane to take what QB he wants because he will have an idea how to use them in his system. If I was Head Coach, I would want a huge say in that. 

[stitches]

18 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Shane coached Hurts and Hurts has become a top 5 QB, Young is close to the same type of player. I think Shane could do wonders with Young and Taylor.

Disagree. They are nothing alike. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

16 minutes ago, stitches said:

Disagree. They are nothing alike. 

We will have to agree to disagree because I think they are. Young is just smaller. They both can run and pass good (They both are Dual) and have great foot movement in the pocket as well.

[2006Coltsbestever]

9 minutes ago, stitches said:

Disagree. They are nothing alike. 

People just seem to look at Young's size and say they aren't a like. I look at everything else and they are a lot a like. CJ Stroud is nothing like Hurts IMO. I can buy that. Stroud isn't as fast or the runner those 2 are. 

[stitches]

8 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

People just seem to look at Young's size and say they aren't a like. I look at everything else and they are a lot a like. CJ Stroud is nothing like Hurts IMO. I can buy that. Stroud isn't as fast or the runner those 2 are. 

Eagles' whole offense is based on Hurts' ability to run the ball. Hurts ran 10(TEN!!!) designed runs in the first half of the SB alone. Young cannot do that. On the other hand Young is really great at some of the things Hurts struggles with even at this stage of his career - processing, vision, anticipation... both are playmakers but Young does his damage as a passer out of structure, while Hurts does a lot of his damage as a runner and their offense, including their passing offense is based on the threat of him running the ball. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, stitches said:

Eagles' whole offense is based on Hurts' ability to run the ball. Hurts ran 10(TEN!!!) designed runs in the first half of the SB alone. Young cannot do that. On the other hand Young is really great at some of the things Hurts struggles with even at this stage of his career - processing, vision, anticipation... both are playmakers but Young does his damage as a passer out of structure, while Hurts does a lot of his damage as a runner. 

Good points but Young is just as fast and can run if he needs too. I am sure he would at least have a few run plays set up for him because he can fly. I guess it is just the way different people look at things. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, stitches said:

Eagles' whole offense is based on Hurts' ability to run the ball. Hurts ran 10(TEN!!!) designed runs in the first half of the SB alone. Young cannot do that. On the other hand Young is really great at some of the things Hurts struggles with even at this stage of his career - processing, vision, anticipation... both are playmakers but Young does his damage as a passer out of structure, while Hurts does a lot of his damage as a runner. 

I respect your college views over most in here so I won't debate it too much. I take it you don't want Young?

[cdgacoltsfan]

3 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I think this is the right response. Makes the Bears whole again, and they get their choice of franchise QB, and we get Fields at a discount after two years since his flaws have been shown, and we get to fix him with a new coach, along with keeping the no4 overall pick. 

 

So win/win there for both teams.

I'm thinking Ballard won't touch Fields. He has to get this right because his job is on the line. I doubt they will trade for someone they have to fix. They will draft their QB and mold him the way they want.

[stitches]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Good points but Young is just as fast and can run if he needs too. I am sure he would at least have a few run plays set up for him because he can fly. I guess it is just the way different people look at things. 

I'm sorry but I just don't see it. Young is not a runner. He runs out of necessity. 

 

Here are his rushing stats for the 3 years in Alabama:

2020: -23 yards

2021: 0 yards

2022: 185 yards

 

Hurts is having 700-800 yard rushing years in the NFL and was floating around 1000 yards pers season in college. They are completely different types of QBs. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

6 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Good points but Young is just as fast and can run if he needs too. I am sure he would at least have a few run plays set up for him because he can fly. I guess it is just the way different people look at things. 

Young is about 190. No way you want to have designed runs with him.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, stitches said:

I'm sorry but I just don't see it. Young is not a runner. He runs out of necessity. 

 

Here are his rushing stats for the 3 years in Alabama:

2020: -23 yards

2021: 0 yards

2022: 185 yards

 

Hurts is having 700-800 yard rushing years in the NFL and was floating around 1000 yards pers season in college. They are completely different types of QBs. 

Your stats prove me wrong but at Alabama his Line was so great he didn't need to run much. All I am saying is if he wanted to run he could easily and with Shane coaching I could see him doing it more. He is so fast. Of course that is just opinion, nothing factual.

[stitches]

9 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I respect your college views over most in here so I won't debate it too much. I take it you don't want Young?

I won't mind it. If Ballard and Steichen think he's the best guy and think they can turn him into a franchise QB, I would absolutely support that pick. But I think it's important to have realistic expectations about what Bryce Young will look like in the NFL. IMO he will be much closer to Tua than to Hurts(as a style of play... he might be better than Tua or Hurts)

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

37 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I am convinced the Texans take Young anyway because he is the best QB coming out but Stroud is good. Bears will stay with Fields IMO. To early to give up on him.

That’s why I kind of hope they trade to one. It will cost us a lot  less to trade to two.

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Young is about 190. No way you want to have designed runs with him.

Do you think he will stay 190, it is actually 194 but I get your point. I say he puts on weight, most players do in the NFL because they need to get stronger to play at that level.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

That’s why I kind of hope they trade to one. It will cost us a lot  less to trade to two.

The soap opera is just beginning. Hard telling what we will do or who we take.

[cdgacoltsfan]

49 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Poppycock, when Young gains weight in the NFL, most in here will say I was right. Young just has to be smart about his runs. I am not worried about his size at all.

His frame is too small to pack on 30 lbs. 

[crazycolt1]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The soap opera is just beginning. Hard telling what we will do or who we take.

GMs and scouts look at different things than the average fan does. They are also make connections on the personal lives of the players.  

[cdgacoltsfan]

7 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Do you think he will stay 190, it is actually 194 but I get your point. I say he puts on weight, most players do in the NFL because they need to get stronger to play at that level.

How is he going to get taller?

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

How is he going to get taller?

I said he will put on weight, where did I say taller?

[crazycolt1]

Just now, cdgacoltsfan said:

How is he going to get taller?

I see him listed at 6ft. On his site. But on other sites they have him at 5'10"

[crazycolt1]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I said he will put on weight, where did I say taller?

Will his slight frame carry much more weight? 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

Will his slight frame carry much more weight? 

We will see, I am only 5'8 and weighed 180 for years, I put on 20 pounds at 1 time easily and it wasn't fat - years ago. I did that by lifting weights and eating a lot of protein. No trainer, no NFL trainers which he will have = best in the world. If someone like me can do it, any pro player could do it with ease.

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We will see, I am only 5'8 and weighed 180 for years, I put on 20 pounds at 1 time easily and it wasn't fat - years ago. I did that by lifting weights and eating a lot of protein. No trainer, no NFL trainers which he will have = best in the world. If someone like me can do it, any pro player could do it with ease.

I can see that point but I still worry about his safety playing against much faster and stronger players in the pros. Some of the LBs and blitzing DBs are faster than he is. Can you imagine him getting blasted by Darnald?