No more Statues

[chad72]

1 minute ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Irsay better hope Ryan doesn’t get injured so bad he can’t pass a physical in the spring or they are going to owe him a ton of money. With the teams coming up it is very likely injury is going to occur.

 

No it’s like 17 million.

 

I did wonder if Irsay would like to see what we have in Sam E for the next year after the bye week. I know Saturday is his friend and all but if we are 4-8-1, we probably need 1 more loss, I would think, till we are mathematically eliminated. Right?

[lilolemoi]

9 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Nope, we save about $17 mil. against the cap. Go look up this thread and ask @w87r, our cap expert all about it.

 

 

 

Sportrac was linked already.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/matt-ryan-3983/

 

$10 million is fully guaranteed for 2023 plus another $7 million roster bonus which is what you’d save by cutting him.

[chad72]

2 minutes ago, lilolemoi said:

 

Sportrac was linked already.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/matt-ryan-3983/

 

$10 million is fully guaranteed for 2023 plus another $7 million roster bonus which is what you’d save by cutting him.

 

Read the 2 lines in the article you quoted from Spotrac:

 

2023 Roster Bonus: $10M (guarantees 3/17/2023, injury guaranteed now)

Additional $7,205,882 of 2023 salary fully guarantees 3/17/2023, injury guaranteed now)

 

It is March 17, 2023, that guarantee deadline, if he is on the roster then. If he is released or cut at the end of the season, $17 mil. savings, outright. Falcons are footing the rest. That is why we fans and probably Colts management don't want him injured.

[lilolemoi]

1 minute ago, chad72 said:

 

Read the 2 lines in the article you quoted from Spotrac:

 

2023 Roster Bonus: $10M (guarantees 3/17/2023, injury guaranteed now)

Additional $7,205,882 of 2023 salary fully guarantees 3/17/2023, injury guaranteed now)

 

It is March 17, 2023, that guarantee deadline, if he is on the roster then. If he is released or cut at the end of the season, $17 mil. savings, outright. Falcons are footing the rest.

 

Falcons only paid for this year. The rest was deferred.

[chad72]

1 minute ago, lilolemoi said:

 

Falcons only paid for this year. The rest was deferred.

 

We still save $17 mil. based on the timeline of the article you quoted, out there for the world to see.

 

Go take it up with Ballard. Not going to keep arguing because it makes it clear on the 3/17/2023 date

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

11 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

I did wonder if Irsay would like to see what we have in Sam E for the next year after the bye week. I know Saturday is his friend and all but if we are 4-8-1, we probably need 1 more loss, I would think, till we are mathematically eliminated. Right?

I am not even thinking about that. It could of been fun for Sam to play Sunday back at home. I think after the bye week is when we probably see Sam.

[chad72]

2 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I am not even thinking about that. It could of been fun for Sam to play Sunday back at home. I think after the bye week is when we probably see Sam.

 

That would also give us plenty of time to devise an offense good enough to incorporate an offense built for Sam even more than before the Commanders game, IMO.

[lilolemoi]

20 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

We still save $17 mil. based on the timeline of the article you quoted, out there for the world to see.

 

Go take it up with Ballard. Not going to keep arguing because it makes it clear on the 3/17/2023 date

 

$12 million of 2023 fully guaranteed.

Additional $7 million of 2023 fully guaranteed.

 

What do you think “fully guaranteed” means? The only thing you save by cutting him is the roster bonus. You must think his agent is incompetent sending him to a franchise on its sixth QB in five years without assurances he still gets paid regardless.

[lilolemoi]

12 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

That would also give us plenty of time to devise an offense good enough to incorporate an offense built for Sam even more than before the Commanders game, IMO.

 

Why would you build an offense for a backup?

[PRnum1]

4 minutes ago, lilolemoi said:

 

Why would you build an offense for a backup?

Heres the offense you build for Sam

 

[lilolemoi]

AFC Notes: Jim Irsay, Colts, Brandin Cooks, Texans, Ryan Tannehill, Titans

November 10, 2022

Colts

Regarding a report claiming the Colts are avoiding playing Matt Ryan again this season in order to avoid paying him $17 million in 2023, owner Jim Irsay responded the information is “false” and a clause “doesn’t exist.”  

“I don’t know how people report these things that are false,” Irsay said, via Mike Chappell. “There is no playing-time thing for Matt Ryan, a $17 million bonus in the offseason. It doesn’t exist.”

There’s no incentives, but Ryan does have another $17 million in both base salary and bonus in 2023 that is guaranteed for injury and is due by March 19.  

 

https://nfltraderumors.co/afc-notes-jim-irsay-colts-brandin-cooks-texans-ryan-tannehill-titans/

[chad72]

17 minutes ago, lilolemoi said:

 

$12 million of 2023 fully guaranteed.

Additional $7 million of 2023 fully guaranteed.

 

What do you think “fully guaranteed” means? The only thing you save by cutting him is the roster bonus. You must think his agent is incompetent sending him to a franchise on its sixth QB in five years without assurances he still gets paid regardless.

 

 

 

2023 Roster Bonus: $10M (guarantees 3/17/2023, injury guaranteed now)

Additional $7,205,882 of 2023 salary fully guarantees 3/17/2023, injury guaranteed now)

 

His salary is massive and the $12 mil. portion of it is guaranteed but his salary is even more than that, dude. Thus we get to save $7 mil. portion of that salary and the $10 mil. of the roster bonus.

 

You leave out the date because it is convenient to your flimsy argument.

 

You copy and paste 

Additional $7 million of 2023 fully guaranteed.

 

while the full text reads:

Additional $7,205,882 of 2023 salary fully guarantees 3/17/2023, injury guaranteed now)

 

Go away, you are here only to argue. Seems like you are one of those Matt Ryan fans. Besides, it is Irsay's money, I don't want Matt Ryan starting next year based on what he has shown us, that is just me. I am sure Irsay has paid Luck and Wentz for the time they haven't played too.

 

 

[lilolemoi]

5 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Thus we get to save $7 mil. portion of that salary and the $10 mil. of the roster bonus.

 

You haven’t shown anything that supports this claim except a random comment on here.

 

6 minutes ago, chad72 said:

fully guarantees 3/17/2023, injury guaranteed now)

 

The only way you get out of that is if he retires.

 

7 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Go away, you are here only to argue. Seems like you are one of those Matt Ryan fans. Besides, it is Irsay's money

 

And I quoted Irsay saying he has no problem with paying Ryan and your claim is absurd. You’re the one who only wants to argue by attacking one player on a bad team and making up rumors about him that aren’t being reported by the media or the team’s decision makers. Why are you even posting this on a fan forum? It isn’t constructive or realistic.

[throwing BBZ]

2 hours ago, lilolemoi said:

 

You’re the one who refuses to accept reality. Ryan’s money next year is guaranteed. He’s not retiring, and he’s your starter next year. There’s nobody better on the roster.

 

 

 

 

"The only way you get out of that is if he retires."

 We don't get out of anything if he retires.

 And ONLY if he can't pass a physical prior to the injury guarantee date would we owe him the other $17M.

This was covered all over the place for many days as the reason Irsay wanted him benched so that he couldn't get hurt on the field. IF, he passes his physical, then we cut him we have $17M more to spend on players we WANT here.

 And it IS NOT going to be this washed up skittish old man.

 

 Ryan has $12M Guaranteed next season. And $17M that is not!

 To me, it looks like the defenses are well aware of where he likes to throw to, and what his range is. I continue to believe that Ryan can't put up twenty points. 

 When the pressure gets imminent he reminds me of a fainting goat.

He gets all panicky and then wilts to the ground making sure to Not use both hands to secure the ball. 

 With luck, we lose out and Ryan takes enough beating to call it a career.

[dw49]

1 hour ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Irsay better hope Ryan doesn’t get injured so bad he can’t pass a physical in the spring or they are going to owe him a ton of money. With the teams coming up it is very likely injury is going to occur.

No it’s like 17 million.

 

I think the injury part relating to the guaranteed money is 6 million as that poster said. Much of his 2023 salary is guaranteed .

[Happy2BeHere]

8 hours ago, Mr.Debonair said:

The NFL has been changing and the statue, sit in the pocket QB days are fading. You don’t need a Lamar Jackson or a Mike Vick. However, you do need a QB that can extend plays with their legs or pick up first downs when guys aren’t getting open. We need to get on the trend. Mahomes, Allen, Tua, Hurts, Fields, Burrow etc.

 

Brady and Stafford (last year) are the last of those kind for the most part. 
 

Yes ultimately the QB needs to deliver from the pocket. That goes without saying but I just had to reiterate. 
 

Last night there were multiple plays where even if we had a Brissett-type back there, we can pick up first downs or yards but the QB running.

 

Ballard or whoever gets the QB for the future has to make sure the player has that trait. You’re handicapping yourself if you don’t.

Ahh so then YOU’RE the one who is behind all these nincompoops out there toppling all these historic statues around the U.S.A. Cmon man poor statues they just sit there minding their own business.  

[DougDew]

15 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Leadership doesn’t matter when the play is that bad. If you just look at Ryan’s passing stats they actually aren’t bad. I bet if we watched every atlanta game from last season we would see the same thing we are seeing now. Maybe not as bad but I bet the issues with him were there.

I've seen a lot of ATL games.  Last year his passes were crisper, in part, because he was throwing to receivers that were more open...fewer contested catches...hitting receivers in stride which made a lower velocity ball not such a big deal.  He also threw the ball farther because Kyle Pitts would stretch the field.  He moved better, and generally had a better pocket.   If he could play this year like he did last year, we would not be talking like this.

 

And Ballard did watch the tape.  The FO thought Ryan might play 2 to 4 more years.  They watched the tape, thought they had a QB who could physically play for at least 2 years, then wanted the leadership factor.

[DougDew]

15 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Everyone can say run JT more but it has a shelf life if you can’t pass the ball.  

We hadn't completed a pass until 7:00 minutes left in the first half, yet JT was having some success.  Not 26 runs in a row.  But the flow of the first half suggested a 75%/25% run pass would have been appropriate.  And we were only down 3 pts then 6 pts...not a score that requires passing.

[shasta519]

15 hours ago, lilolemoi said:

 

$12 million of 2023 fully guaranteed.

Additional $7 million of 2023 fully guaranteed.

 

What do you think “fully guaranteed” means? The only thing you save by cutting him is the roster bonus. You must think his agent is incompetent sending him to a franchise on its sixth QB in five years without assurances he still gets paid regardless.

 

It says "fully guarantees on 3/17/23"

 

Right now the Colts are already out $18M ($12M of his 2023 base and $6M in restructure bonus). He has to be on the roster past 3/17/23 to get the additional $7M in base + a $10M roster bonus.

 

Basically, he's an $18M dead cap hit right now, with $17M in savings. If he's here past the 3/17/23 date, then it's $35M. Which is why he won't be here.

 

If they designate him a post-June 1 cut, I think they can split up the $6M restructure bonus, but not the $12M base.

[Mighty Blue]

21 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We could, would you trade Taylor if it meant we get into the top 2? Lets say we are at 7th at the time.

Ooooo, scary thought!

If that happened, can you imagine Mr Taylor playing against us and running all over our defense?

That reminds me, we need to improve our defense

[Btown_Colt]

On 11/29/2022 at 5:23 PM, lilolemoi said:

 

You haven’t shown anything that supports this claim except a random comment on here.

 

 

The only way you get out of that is if he retires.

 

 

And I quoted Irsay saying he has no problem with paying Ryan and your claim is absurd. You’re the one who only wants to argue by attacking one player on a bad team and making up rumors about him that aren’t being reported by the media or the team’s decision makers. Why are you even posting this on a fan forum? It isn’t constructive or realistic.

Not to interject, but if I may, I’d to clear a few things up.

 

- As far as I know, player contracts are not public information. Yes some of the contract details gets shared/leaked, usually by the players/agents and not the teams.

 

- That is why we are having to use Sportrac’s website to get the contract details and not the Colts or NFL.

- What was being reported is that the Colts benched Ryan to prevent him from being injured and therefore next years money would become guaranteed if he couldn’t pass a physical…this was based off of “reported contract details”.

 

- What Irsay is refuting, in the press conference you linked, are these reports that the Colts benched Ryan to save money. 
 

With that being said, it seems pretty reasonable to assume:

- there is some type of guarantee for MR due to injury.

- the contract details reported by Sporttrac are probably accurate. There is a  reason they are considered a reliable source of information regarding player contracts & it seems reasonable that the Colts would have wanted some type of out/relief next season if things went exactly how they are currently going.

 

 

What you are trying to claim in essence is that when the Colts restructured his contract, they gave MR a two year fully guaranteed contract and that information was never released or leaked. That seems highly unlikely.

 

 

[lilolemoi]

10 hours ago, Btown_Colt said:

With that being said, it seems pretty reasonable to assume:

- there is some type of guarantee for MR due to injury.

- the contract details reported by Sporttrac are probably accurate. There is a  reason they are considered a reliable source of information regarding player contracts & it seems reasonable that the Colts would have wanted some type of out/relief next season if things went exactly how they are currently going.

 

The Colts were put in a desperate QB situation, so the Falcons held all the leverage. They didn’t need to move on from Ryan, but the new coach wanted Mariota since they’d worked together before and they drafted a good prospect to develop. I don’t think the stories about them wanting Deshawn Watson influenced the situation much. Since Atlanta offered to pay Ryan’s salary this year, I would imagine the Colts offered to pay next year and that was guaranteed as a show of good faith.

 

With their reputation for abusing QBs, I think there would have been assurances made to ease the transition. I think the Colts FO liked what they saw when they watched the tape of Ryan last year, and he cannot be blamed entirely for the dumpster fire this team is seeing as he just got here. But as the QB, there’s inherent responsibility in the role. First year adjustments were compounded by a Center who missed most of camp and the preseason, an unstable LT position and a lack of depth in the defense. Leonard out means no turnovers, for example. Dennis Kelly and Armani Watts, not really difference makers but more experienced than most of the roster, didn’t even play. It was a recipe for disaster.

[Btown_Colt]

5 hours ago, lilolemoi said:

 

The Colts were put in a desperate QB situation, so the Falcons held all the leverage. They didn’t need to move on from Ryan, but the new coach wanted Mariota since they’d worked together before and they drafted a good prospect to develop. I don’t think the stories about them wanting Deshawn Watson influenced the situation much. Since Atlanta offered to pay Ryan’s salary this year, I would imagine the Colts offered to pay next year and that was guaranteed as a show of good faith.

 

With their reputation for abusing QBs, I think there would have been assurances made to ease the transition. I think the Colts FO liked what they saw when they watched the tape of Ryan last year, and he cannot be blamed entirely for the dumpster fire this team is seeing as he just got here. But as the QB, there’s inherent responsibility in the role. First year adjustments were compounded by a Center who missed most of camp and the preseason, an unstable LT position and a lack of depth in the defense. Leonard out means no turnovers, for example. Dennis Kelly and Armani Watts, not really difference makers but more experienced than most of the roster, didn’t even play. It was a recipe for disaster.

Ok cool, but I am not sure that had to do with much of what I posted and you quoted, except you seem to be doubling down that his contract is fully guaranteed, and it’s isn’t.

 

Oh well, I tried.

[lilolemoi]

1 hour ago, Btown_Colt said:

Ok cool, but I am not sure that had to do with much of what I posted and you quoted, except you seem to be doubling down that his contract is fully guaranteed, and it’s isn’t.

 

Oh well, I tried.

 

I’m going by common sense and what’s been reported in the media with the team owner’s comments included. There are a lot of fans who seem to enjoy riding the QB carousel whether it’s Foles or Ehlinger this year or Levis or Stroud or the next shiny object tomorrow. To me, it isn’t the biggest problem facing the Colts, but go ahead and argue you can weasel your way out of a deal if that’s what gets you through the season.

[Btown_Colt]

1 minute ago, lilolemoi said:

 

I’m going by common sense and what’s been reported in the media with the team owner’s comments included. There are a lot of fans who seem to enjoy riding the QB carousel whether it’s Foles or Ehlinger this year or Levis or Stroud or the next shiny object tomorrow. To me, it isn’t the biggest problem facing the Colts, but go ahead and argue you can weasel your way out of a deal if that’s what gets you through the season.

Lol ok. I have yet to say one thing about MR or this team to you.

To the bolded: your common sense suggests that 37 year old MR and his agent aren’t smart enough to get injury guarantees built into his contract & that the Colts aren’t smart enough to provide themselves some sort of relief/out if for whatever reason MR ended up not being in the plans for next year.

 

I’m confident your mind won’t be changed so we can leave it at that.

 

[jvan1973]

On 11/29/2022 at 3:00 PM, lilolemoi said:

Ah yes that hefty playbook of former high school coach and tv personality Jeff Saturday. 

You think the playbook is Saturdays?

[lilolemoi]

16 hours ago, Btown_Colt said:

I have yet to say one thing about MR or this team to you.

 

So, if the Colts benched Ryan to protect him from getting injured, why is he playing again?

 

57 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

You think the playbook is Saturdays?

 

Is there a secret HC we don’t know about?

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, lilolemoi said:

 

So, if the Colts benched Ryan to protect him from getting injured, why is he playing again?

 

Is there a secret HC we don’t know about?

It is just over, no matter who starts. I have faced reality. To me Taylor and Leonard both have let this whole team down so has the O.Line. Matt Ryan is a Hall of Fame QB, he makes my top 25 ever, right at 25, waltzes in here thinking he getting a good roster and the players around him have stunk IMO. The QB always gets the blame or the coach but in by watching this team this year, there have been many issues other than QB or coach. I miss Andrew Luck so bad, Matt is just too old.

[lilolemoi]

4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It is just over, no matter who starts.

 

That’s also my opinion. Why burn up good money on another QB when it doesn’t matter with this team? Save your money for other positions in FA, trade the overpaid players and draft and develop a new QB. Start over from scratch including the GM.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, lilolemoi said:

 

That’s also my opinion. Why burn up good money on another QB when it doesn’t matter with this team. Save your money for other positions in FA, trade the overpaid players and draft and develop a new QB. Start over from scratch including the 45-47-1 GM.

I think there is going to be huge changes coming up in the off season. Coaches, GM possibly, drafting a QB, and I am not sure what Leonard's future will be? I hope he is 100% coming back but I don't like what I see right now. I am not even sure Taylor can be like 2021 any more. Just very disappointing. Matt Ryan is a great QB all-time but he even let me down. 

[lilolemoi]

14 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think there is going to be huge changes coming up in the off season. Coaches, GM possibly, drafting a QB, and I am not sure what Leonard's future will be? I hope he is 100% coming back but I don't like what I see right now. I am not even sure Taylor can be like 2021 any more. Just very disappointing. Matt Ryan is a great QB all-time but he even let me down. 

 

The QB can’t fix everything, and I suspect even Ryan bought into a bit of the preseason hype, which was Reich, Ballard and Irsay selling tickets and knowing they were ripping off fans. Someone needs to be held accountable. I was shocked what I was hearing from the media and had to tune them all out. I started listening to Dan Dakich LoL, because I was like there’s no way a bunch of rookies and an old QB are gonna take this team to the Super Bowl. There’s a reason WR and LT are considered so important and paid $ Instead they paid the RG!

[throwing BBZ]

1 hour ago, lilolemoi said:

 

The QB can’t fix everything, and I suspect even Ryan bought into a bit of the preseason hype, which was Reich, Ballard and Irsay selling tickets and knowing they were ripping off fans. Someone needs to be held accountable. I was shocked what I was hearing from the media and had to tune them all out. I started listening to Dan Dakich LoL, because I was like there’s no way a bunch of rookies and an old QB are gonna take this team to the Super Bowl. There’s a reason WR and LT are considered so important and paid $ Instead they paid the RG!

 

 No they didn't! You got that wrong also! haha!

 LMAO ANYONE would mention SB for 2022. That discussion would have been done by a nutt. Like Dakich!

 We looked respectable going into this season with decent odds to win a weak division. Ryan fumbled and bumbled us into oblivion. And Frank... lost it!

 And there is always next season.

[jvan1973]

5 hours ago, lilolemoi said:

 

So, if the Colts benched Ryan to protect him from getting injured, why is he playing again?

 

 

Is there a secret HC we don’t know about?

They didn't change the offense .  The playbook is Franks

[chad72]

On 12/2/2022 at 5:08 PM, jvan1973 said:

They didn't change the offense .  The playbook is Franks

 

Yep, when we keep running up the gut on 1st down with no creativity, it is Frank's playbook without a doubt.

 

[Dingus McGirt]

On 11/29/2022 at 3:13 PM, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Doesn’t have to be a duel QB. They have to be mobile enough to run bootlegs and take off a few times a game. Pickett was a good example of that. When we day mobile we aren’t talking Lamar Jackson or Justin fields.  Matt isn’t that smart. He doesn’t make the right reads either.

Sorry.  “Dual”

[chad72]

Yep, it is best to play Sam E to give him the only last chance he might get, a 4 game audition. I agree with this article. Some key lines below.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/colts/news/matt-ryan-colts-cowboys-qb-sam-ehlinger

 

The first reason is the language in Ryan’s contract. Ryan is already guaranteed $12 million from the Colts in 2023, regardless of his roster status. However, he is potentially owed $17.2 million more if he is on the roster on the third day of the league year in March. The $17.2 million would also be guaranteed if Ryan becomes injured and cannot pass a physical by that time as well. It is best to sit Ryan so there is no chance he becomes injured.

[richard pallo]

25 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Yep, it is best to play Sam E to give him the only last chance he might get, a 4 game audition. I agree with this article. Some key lines below.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/colts/news/matt-ryan-colts-cowboys-qb-sam-ehlinger

 

The first reason is the language in Ryan’s contract. Ryan is already guaranteed $12 million from the Colts in 2023, regardless of his roster status. However, he is potentially owed $17.2 million more if he is on the roster on the third day of the league year in March. The $17.2 million would also be guaranteed if Ryan becomes injured and cannot pass a physical by that time as well. It is best to sit Ryan so there is no chance he becomes injured.

I would start Foles.  They would be wasted snaps on Sam.  He’s not an NFL quarterback.  If we draft a rookie quarterback he can play behind Foles next year until he is ready.  Ryan should have played his last snap.

[chad72]

5 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I would start Foles.  They would be wasted snaps on Sam.  He’s not an NFL quarterback.  If we draft a rookie quarterback he can play behind Foles next year until he is ready.  Ryan should have played his last snap.

 

It depends on how the staff feels about Sam E. If they feel he is just as good as Foles, might as well see what we have in him because if the playbook of Frank's is changing, Sam E will be the cheapest to keep around because we know a different playbook can use his legs but not that of Foles.

 

Foles might soon become the Brian Hoyer of the NFL. 

[richard pallo]

Just now, chad72 said:

 

It depends on how the staff feels about Sam E. If they feel he is just as good as Foles, might as well see what we have in him because if the playbook of Frank's is changing, Sam E will be the cheapest to keep around because we know a different playbook can use his legs but not that of Foles.

 

Foles might soon become the Brian Hoyer of the NFL. 

I would rather have a rookie quarterback play and learn from a Foles versus Sam.  That’s a no brainer for me.

[chad72]

1 minute ago, richard pallo said:

I would rather have a rookie quarterback play and learn from a Foles versus Sam.  That’s a no brainer for me.

 

You are assuming Foles will be our backup QB next year. What if both Foles and Sam are gone and we get Jacoby back as a backup? You can always sign a better backup if you feel Sam won't cut it. 

 

Look, I don't even believe Sam E is the answer but I feel he deserves a chance, Foles has had plenty of chances around the league and he will get more chances than Sam E.