Brian Flores Suing NFL and NY Giants (Merge)

[luv_pony_express]

10 minutes ago, Shive said:

It's a bit of a conspiracy theory, but plausible.

 

I'd say more than just a bit.

[jvan1973]

24 minutes ago, DougDew said:

You mean Flores accepted a bribe from the owner to have his team lose?  Flores should be kicked out of the NFL and should never have been interviewed by any team.

 

It appears that  Flores may have been hired as HC in MIA in the first place because of his race over his qualifications.  Now he's claiming that decisions to not hire him are based on race?   

 

It looks like the guy is just an unqualified tool who happens to be black and is trying to use the rules to bully his way in.

 

You obviously haven't read the story,  yet you have an opinion on it.   I'm not surprised 

[Shive]

6 minutes ago, luv_pony_express said:

I'd say more than just a bit.

Being that he didn't comply and actually did well (all things considered), we'll never know if that was the plan or not. You would also have to prove intent, so unless there was physical evidence where such a conspiracy was communicated to someone else, there's nothing there. I don't necessarily believe that was what happened or was the intent with hiring him, just throwing some speculation out there.

 

3 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

You obviously haven't read the story,  yet you have an opinion on it.   I'm not surprised 

Par for the course.

[luv_pony_express]

29 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

 

i agree but on your last part, it becomes clear that isn’t the case when less qualified coaches are getting opportunities when good ones aren’t.  Regardless of color.  If I sign a coach who had a losing season over a coach who had a winning season, we need to know why.  Once again, regardless of color.

 

Yeah, and I wrote that last sentence carefully.  I wasn't claiming that race hasn't played a role in any recent hiring or firing decisions -- because, how would I know?  I'm sure it was a regular norm at some point and it doesn't seem like the sort of thing that would exist one day and not the next.

 

All I was saying was that, just because any particular hiring/firing decision favors a white coach over a black coach doesn't necessarily mean that race was a factor.  But it certainly could've been.

 

And I agree with you that there are hiring/firing decisions that don't seem to make sense on the surface.  I said as much about the Texans firing Culley.  The guy got one season...after walking into an abject mess other people made and NOT being the worst team in the NFL, which he'd have had every excuse to have been exactly that.

[RollerColt]

Just now, luv_pony_express said:

And I agree with you that there are hiring/firing decisions that don't seem to make sense on the surface.  I said as much about the Texans firing Culley.  The guy got one season...after walking into an abject mess other people made and NOT being the worst team in the NFL, which he'd have had every excuse to have been exactly that.

Rich Bisaccia comes to mind with the Raiders. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

4 hours ago, RollerColt said:

I'd hardly say he was the architect of all the success NE enjoyed. Unless we're saying Brady wouldn't have improved without his guidance, I feel he was more along for the ride. 

 

I don't think the Patriot Way is going to equate well for Las Vegas. 

 

Well he obviously was the top choice for Ballard to be the Colts HC.

[RollerColt]

1 minute ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

Well he obviously was the top choice for Ballard to be the Colts HC.

True, he has consistently been the hottest name in HC candidates. I'm actually glad it didn't work out with him. I'll admit I was intrigued at the time of potentially hiring him, but I still had a nagging feeling about him. I don't know... There's just something about him I don't like, putting aside what he did to the Colts. 

[luv_pony_express]

2 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

True, he has consistently been the hottest name in HC candidates. I'm actually glad it didn't work out with him. I'll admit I was intrigued at the time of potentially hiring him, but I still had a nagging feeling about him. I don't know... There's just something about him I don't like, putting aside what he did to the Colts. 

 

I understand.  And I think I agree -- but I have to admit being biased after the low-rent stunt he pulled.

 

But clearly McDaniel has been a highly coveted prospect around the league for a while now, deservedly or not.  In that context, I think the Raiders decision makes sense.

[NFLfan]

32 minutes ago, luv_pony_express said:

But clearly McDaniel has been a highly coveted prospect around the league for a while now, deservedly or not. 

 

The question is why is he highly coveted. Serious question. There is nothing in his history that shows that he will be a good head coach.  That does not mean he won't be. Perhaps he learned from his mistakes and won't make the same mistakes as all the other Pats assistants besides O'Brien and Flores. We will see but he is now getting a chance to show he can be a good coach. 

 

[chad72]

29 minutes ago, Shive said:

Being that he didn't comply and actually did well (all things considered), we'll never know if that was the plan or not. You would also have to prove intent, so unless there was physical evidence where such a conspiracy was communicated to someone else, there's nothing there. I don't necessarily believe that was what happened or was the intent with hiring him, just throwing some speculation out there.

 

 

Now, Belichick's texts would become the centerpiece of evidence as to a) whether it was him and b) then the question shifts to if the Giants did in fact let Belichick know ahead of time when he was texting Flores. As far as the tanking thing, Flores better provide serious evidence for that is way more a serious allegation than any of the others, IMO.

 

In both situations, race played a role mainly via the enforcement and/or existence of the Rooney rule, and wasn't particularly directed at Flores, he just happened to be the latest guy at the receiving end of these sham interviews. So, he is definitely fighting for more than himself. The unprofessional practice of namesake interviews definitely needs to be looked into and the timeline of the interview processes that teams follow should also be given re-thought to, as a consequence.

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

6 hours ago, Chrisaaron1023 said:

Sorry you must forgive me, I've only been paying attention to football since 2003. But minorities weren't allowed to interview? 

 

I feel like this is a direct correlation to that rule. Maybe its just me, but who wants to be a token? I feel for Flores.. If I ever walked into an interview only because the color of my skin I'd feel horrible... "You got the job, because we feel you would be an excell.... well because you're black and it's the right thing to do!" 

 

That's how I interpret the Rooney Rule to be,,

Who said anything about “weren’t allowed to interview”.   Who said that?   Not me.   But many qualified minorities couldn’t get interviewed.   Look at Eric Bienemy right now.  He struggled to get interviews and many think he’s demonstrated enough to get a job.  

[NFLfan]

1 hour ago, Shive said:

 

I've seen that Bill has deep ties with the Mara family, so it would stand to reason that he got inside info ahead of time.

 

I keep thinking that BB did this purposely. I don't trust the guy.   But yeah, he and all the guys that were with Parcells when he won with the Giants are close with the Mara family ( BB, Coughlin, Romeo Crennel, etc.)

 

My friend who is the Giants ticket holder has not responded to my text message, asking for his thoughts on this. His family has had season tickets for over 55 years. I know this is bugging him.  I actually do not think the Giants were discriminating against Flores. I think their guy was Brian Daboll as soon as Joe Schoen was hired. I sent a text message to my friend at the time telling him I thought Daboll would be his next coach.

 

It is too bad that this has come to this, as I think Flores is a good coach. 

[DougDew]

11 minutes ago, Shive said:

Wow, somehow you flipped that completely around to blame the person offered the bribe, not the person offering it. There's no information that he took any such bribe and his insistence on not tanking is apparently one of the reasons he was deemed to have an attitude problem and butt heads with ownership. Flores was told by GM Chris Grier that Stephen Ross was livid that his efforts to actually win compromised Miami's draft position. That tells me he didn't take the bribe, but thanks for victim-blaming

The post I was responding to was a typical 5 word post from the guy who always gives undescriptive 5 word responses.  I assume that Flores took the bribe based upon how the post read,  

 

 But in a Flores thread, I would talk about the punishment Flores should receive instead of going out of my way to talk about the owner's punishment too.  Should I have gone out of my way to "even up the criticism" just because I criticized a black coach?   Maybe expecting that kind of twist is what causes problems.

 

31 minutes ago, Shive said:

Based on the reports that shortly after Flores was hired, Ross attempted to bribe him to tank the season, it seems like there is potential that he may have been hired based on his race...to be the fall guy. The team tanks at the owner's direct and bribe, they get the #1 draft pick, fire Flores for the losing season, then hire the guy they want with their #1 pick in hand. It's a bit of a conspiracy theory, but plausible.

You've completely lost me. There are plenty of white coaches that lose,...there are plenty of white County Commissioners who take bribes.  Why would Ross have to hire a black coach to be the fall guy or to take a bribe? 

 

 

39 minutes ago, Shive said:

He had 2 winning seasons out of 3 despite his Owner and GM actively working against him. "Unqualified tool" is the far from what Flores has shown to be.

Again, on what basis would a white owner and white GM need to hire a black coach to do this?  How does race play into him being undermined?   I think this entire assumption, and maybe even Flores case, is racist against his bosses.  "Ross is thinking that he needs or wants a black guy to be the fall guy because we know that's just how rich white owners think"  Right?

 

If that's the basis of the suit...of raising the potential bribe issue in the first place to place some sort of image on Ross instead of looking at evidence of actual racism, then yes, Flores is using the rules to bully his way in....a tool.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

9 hours ago, stitches said:

 

 

To me this is bigger than the racism aspect .... unfortunately there will probably always be some sort of racism in the world. If not the color of your skin, then the color of your eyes, your height etc.... It of course is terrible and needs to go away but I won't hold my breath.

 

The 'tanking' that Ross wanted and him and I'm guessing other owners investing into sports betting is HUGE!!! How many other times has owners told coaches to lose a game? Or GM's ?

Flores's attorney said they know of other occasions where management wanted coaches to lose on purpose AND HOPES some of them come forward. I can't think for even a micro second that this was a isolated incident.

 

The integrity of the NFL has always been questioned, but it may take a dive again. 

It may make some fans think about spending their money on tickets & merchandise AND time on stats from PFF and watching college players on YouTube and making mocks....

.....What's the use if teams tank for draft picks, betting purposes, and whatever? 

[DougDew]

51 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

 

Dude, where are you getting any of this from? How was he unqualified? How is he bullying his way in?

Have you read any of the facts around the case? How're you coming to these conclusions? Whatever you've thrown into the mixer to come to these kind of statements AFTER seeing the case facts is a dodgy thing

No. I did not read the facts of this case, nor does it interest me because its probably bogus.   It doesn't sound like its something that anybody can attribute to racism without taking sides and removing logic.  

 

I read Jvans post as Flores taking the bribe.  What I did read about Flores qualifications when he was hired......back when the discussion was about our new DC...I noticed that he was only the DB coach for the Patriots....and then jumped over being a DC to being a HC.  A point others have made.  

 

Yes, IMO he was not qualified to be a HC.  It may have worked out ok.  he may have done a great job, but the qualifications on paper did not add up.

 

You can speculate as to reasons why he was hired.  Apparently, Flores is now saying that he was hired to be a black fall guy because Ross did not want a white fall guy.  I guess that's because that's how Flores thinks a rich white owner would think.  It says a lot about him and his legal staff.

[Colt.45]

5 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

I keep thinking that BB did this purposely. I don't trust the guy.   But yeah, he and all the guys that were with Parcells when he won with the Giants are close with the Mara family ( BB, Coughlin, Romeo Crennel, etc.)

 

My friend who is the Giants ticket holder has not responded to my text message, asking for his thoughts on this. His family has had season tickets for over 55 years. I know this is bugging him.  I actually do not think the Giants were discriminating against Flores. I think their guy was Brian Daboll as soon as Joe Schoen was hired. I sent a text message to my friend at the time telling him I thought Daboll would be his next coach.

 

It is too bad that this has come to this, as I think Flores is a good coach. 

Yup, that's my thought as well. The Giants knew who they wanted and went and got him.

That's not unusual at all, i'd say most teams probably do this. Ballard wanted McDaniels from the gitgo. When coaches are appointed, we all have an idea who their coordinators will be. Same thing with GMs, it's discriminatory but not on the basis of race.

 

The race factor comes in when those folks who GMs have in mind are almost never the most qualified, or the best candidate, and when that pool rarely includes minorities because [insert whatever multitude of reasons]. So the hiring practices are 100% discriminatory but that's true for most jobs in life that dont just accept walk-ins or that judge strictly based off the resume. I think the silicon valley guys have dealt with this for years. This isnt just limited to the NFL. 

 

We cant solve society's problems here, but maybe we can all be empathetic, and can all be open to learning no matter how hard a lesson it is. It's really all we can do.

[Shive]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

The post I was responding to was a typical 5 word post from the guy who always gives undescriptive 5 word responses.  I assume that Flores took the bribe based upon how the post read,  

 

 But in a Flores thread, I would talk about the punishment Flores should receive instead of going out of my way to talk about the owner's punishment too.  Should I have gone out of my way to "even up the criticism" just because I criticized a black coach?   Maybe expecting that kind of twist is what causes problems.

1. This tells me you haven't read any of the actual claims in lawsuit itself, just blindly responding to posts without any of the context.

 

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

You've completely lost me. There are plenty of white coaches that lose,...there are plenty of white County Commissioners who take bribes.  Why would Ross have to hire a black coach to be the fall guy or to take a bribe? 

 

Again, on what basis would a white owner and white GM need to hire a black coach to do this?  How does race play into him being undermined?   I think this entire assumption, and maybe even Flores case, is racist against his bosses.  "Ross is thinking that he needs or wants a black guy to be the fall guy because we know that's just how rich white owners think"  Right?

It was purely speculation and I made the clear. We will never know unless there was physical evidence of Ross communicating it to someone else. It may have not had anything to do with his race.

 

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

If that's the basis of the suit...of raising the potential bribe issue in the first place to place some sort of image on Ross instead of looking at evidence of actual racism, then yes, Flores is using the rules to bully his way in....a tool.

Again, your ignorance is astounding. Please take a moment to actually read some of the claims. An NFL owner trying to bribe his head coach to tank the season is a serious issue. Not to mention setting Flores up with a meeting on his yacht to try to get a "prominent QB" (Tom Brady) to sign with MIA while he was still under contract with NE, Flores being told of the reason for the meeting when he got there and immediately leaving. Ross tried to get Flores to act unethically and against league rules. Somehow Flores is the bad guy in this?

[Colt.45]

5 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

To me this is bigger than the racism aspect .... unfortunately there will probably always be some sort of racism in the world. If not the color of your skin, then the color of your eyes, your height etc.... It of course is terrible and needs to go away but I won't hold my breath.

 

The 'tanking' that Ross wanted and him and I'm guessing other owners investing into sports betting is HUGE!!! How many other times has owners told coaches to lose a game? Or GM's ?

Flores's attorney said they know of other occasions where management wanted coaches to lose on purpose AND HOPES some of them come forward. I can't think for even a micro second that this was a isolated incident.

 

The integrity of the NFL has always been questioned, but it may take a dive again. 

It may make some fans think about spending their money on tickets & merchandise AND time on stats from PFF and watching college players on YouTube and making mocks....

.....What's the use if teams tank for draft picks, betting purposes, and whatever? 

Hue Jackson is saying he was paid to do same while working for J Haslam and the Browns. He went as far as naming names on who also got paid for that....it included the GM and others.

[NFLfan]

21 minutes ago, chad72 said:

As far as the tanking thing, Flores better provide serious evidence for that is way more a serious allegation than any of the others, IMO

 

He would need to have a recording. That is a very serious charge.  

 

I recall about 20 years ago when an assistant coach reported that a head coach asked the assistants to lie about a player who had died. The deceased player could not defend himself. Had the assistant not recorded it, no one would have believed it.  Instead of being upset with the allegations of what the head coach did, the fans were upset with the assistant for being a "snitch".

[Shive]

6 minutes ago, DougDew said:

No. I did not read the facts of this case, nor does it interest me because its probably bogus.   It doesn't sound like its something that anybody can attribute to racism without taking sides and removing logic.

Didn't read the facts, but the black guy is obviously lying. You can end your post right there. Everything else after that just the same ignorant drivel. I knew as soon as this topic popped up that it was just a matter of time before you came in here and did exactly this. 

 

6 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I read Jvans post as Flores taking the bribe.  What I did read about Flores qualifications when he was hired......back when the discussion was about our new DC...I noticed that he was only the DB coach for the Patriots....and then jumped over being a DC to being a HC.  A point others have made.  

 

Yes, IMO he was not qualified to be a HC.  It may have worked out ok.  he may have done a great job, but the qualifications on paper did not add up.

He ended up with 2 winning seasons out of 3 despite his owner and GM actively working against him. He did a great job and that was why the sports world was shocked when he got fired.

 

6 minutes ago, DougDew said:

You can speculate as to reasons why he was hired.  Apparently, Flores is now saying that he was hired to be a black fall guy because Ross did not want a white fall guy.  I guess that's because that's how Flores thinks a rich white owner would think.  It says a lot about him and his legal staff.

Flores never said that. I said that as purely speculation on my part.

[stitches]

 

This is the Executive director of the Hue Jackson Foundation. She was a PI before that. This thing has the potential to become a real huge deal... 

[GoColts8818]

13 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

He would need to have a recording. That is a very serious charge.  

 

I recall about 20 years ago when an assistant coach reported that a head coach asked the assistants to lie about a player who had died. The deceased player could not defend himself. Had the assistant not recorded it, no one would have believed it.  Instead of being upset with the allegations of what the head coach did, the fans were upset with the assistant for being a "snitch".

I heard on the radio part of this was a text from BB telling him you are the guy with the Giants before he had his interview.  When Flores pretty much said wait what?  BB said oh my bad I sent that to the wrong guy.  If he was the only minority to interview for the job and the Giants were making it known they had picked their guy before interviewing Flores they are going to be in violation of the Rooney rule if nothing else.  Rather that rises to the level of racial discrimination or not is for the courts to decide. 
 

As for the Miami situation that just sounds like their owner being an * unless he was trying to entrap Flores so he could fire him “for cause” for tampering even then I don’t know if that proves racial discrimination.  

[Shive]

4 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

This is the Executive director of the Hue Jackson Foundation. She was a PI before that. This thing has the potential to become a real huge deal... 

Like you mentioned earlier in the thread, this is a class action lawsuit, so other parties may join him (as I understand them). That may have been his entire intent with the lawsuit. Maybe the instances he faced didn't have the evidence to prove anything concretely, but gives others the opportunity and courage to step forward with their stories (and it sounds like evidence).

[Colt.45]

11 minutes ago, DougDew said:

No. I did not read the facts of this case, nor does it interest me because its probably bogus.   It doesn't sound like its something that anybody can attribute to racism without taking sides and removing logic.  

 

I read Jvans post as Flores taking the bribe.  What I did read about Flores qualifications when he was hired......back when the discussion was about our new DC...I noticed that he was only the DB coach for the Patriots....and then jumped over being a DC to being a HC.  A point others have made.  

 

Yes, IMO he was not qualified to be a HC.  It may have worked out ok.  he may have done a great job, but the qualifications on paper did not add up.

 

You can speculate as to reasons why he was hired.  Apparently, Flores is now saying that he was hired to be a black fall guy because Ross did not want a white fall guy.  I guess that's because that's how Flores thinks a rich white owner would think.  It says a lot about him and his legal staff.

 

That'd be like someone reading two words of your post and then proudly saying you're talking nonsense. Please be better than this. Just open your mind up, it costs you nothing and you may be able to pick things up to actually go out there and help make us all better as a species.

 

You say you read about the bribe, and about Flores' qualifications. Okay you dont think this guy should have been hired because he skipped the prior experience of being a HC or coordinator, fine maybe that should be the NFL standard except for the fact that it isn't so why shouldn't this particular chap benefit? Where does it state a coach has to move along a certain career path? 

 

Did you miss my comment about minorities being hired as 'setup' or 'fall' guys? That's not speculation, it's what happens. There're comments about that whenever certain minority folks are hired, go read the comments on Culley when he was hired. Everyone with eyes knew what was going on, even Culley thought it was a joke when he was hired and confessed to not having it in his sights at all...he still did better than he had any right to do then was also fired...of course. Should he have a case? What Flores is saying isnt new news. I'm not sure why you think it is.

 

Lets at least try and read stuff before commenting, it's the least we can do.

[jvan1973]

29 minutes ago, DougDew said:

The post I was responding to was a typical 5 word post from the guy who always gives undescriptive 5 word responses.  I assume that Flores took the bribe based upon how the post read,  

 

 But in a Flores thread, I would talk about the punishment Flores should receive instead of going out of my way to talk about the owner's punishment too.  Should I have gone out of my way to "even up the criticism" just because I criticized a black coach?   Maybe expecting that kind of twist is what causes problems.

 

You've completely lost me. There are plenty of white coaches that lose,...there are plenty of white County Commissioners who take bribes.  Why would Ross have to hire a black coach to be the fall guy or to take a bribe? 

 

 

Again, on what basis would a white owner and white GM need to hire a black coach to do this?  How does race play into him being undermined?   I think this entire assumption, and maybe even Flores case, is racist against his bosses.  "Ross is thinking that he needs or wants a black guy to be the fall guy because we know that's just how rich white owners think"  Right?

 

If that's the basis of the suit...of raising the potential bribe issue in the first place to place some sort of image on Ross instead of looking at evidence of actual racism, then yes, Flores is using the rules to bully his way in....a tool.

Maybe you should read the story before coming up with an opinion 

[chad72]

4 minutes ago, Shive said:

He ended up with 2 winning seasons out of 3 despite his owner and GM actively working against him. He did a great job and that was why the sports world was shocked when he got fired.

 

Mike Tomlin had 1 year, I repeat, 1 year of coaching as DC. Same thing with Brandon Staley, 1 year of DC. So that 1 year is enough for the "technicality based nitpickers" to say the above are qualified to be HC and not Flores??? 

 

Then turning around and saying "so what if he did well???" Isn't that the whole point of meritocracy, that you evaluate someone based on the results? Flores obviously was a good motivator that his team played hard for him over his 2 seasons.

 

 

[chad72]

2 minutes ago, Shive said:

Like you mentioned earlier in the thread, this is a class action lawsuit, so other parties may join him (as I understand them). That may have been his entire intent with the lawsuit. Maybe the instances he faced didn't have the evidence to prove anything concretely, but gives others the opportunity and courage to step forward with their stories (and it sounds like evidence).

 

Exactly!!! 

[NFLfan]

12 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

maybe we can all be empathetic, and can all be open to learning no matter how hard a lesson it is. It's really all we can do.

 

For sure. There just is not enough empathy or even a willingness to take in what is being shared. 

[Colt.45]

8 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Mike Tomlin had 1 year, I repeat, 1 year of coaching as DC. Same thing with Brandon Staley, 1 year of DC. So that 1 year is enough for the "technicality based nitpickers" to say the above are qualified to be HC and not Flores??? 

 

Then turning around and saying "so what if he did well???" Isn't that the whole point of meritocracy, that you evaluate someone based on the results? Flores obviously was a good motivator that his team played hard for him over his 2 seasons.

 

 

 

McVay is same.

Zac Taylor who is the other SB coach didnt get to coordinator....just like Flores. (Taylor was OC in Miami) for a year in 15

[NFLfan]

13 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

If he was the only minority to interview for the job and the Giants were making it known they had picked their guy before interviewing Flores they are going to be in violation of the Rooney rule if nothing else.  Rather that rises to the level of racial discrimination or not is for the courts to decide. 

 

I am just playing Devil's Advocate here. But what if the Giants wanted to interview other candidates in case their #1 person backed out. (His wife could say "I love Buffalo and I don't want to leave.".)  I think it may be discrimination if the job had already been offered to Daboll and the Giants asked Flores to come for an interview. 

[DougDew]

6 minutes ago, Shive said:

1. This tells me you haven't read any of the actual claims in lawsuit itself, just blindly responding to posts without any of the context.

Yes.  That's what I do here.  I respond to posts (even when they do not have any context, unfortunately).  I do that all of the time, and will make no special effort to do otherwise simply because it involves posts about certain topics.

 

9 minutes ago, Shive said:

It was purely speculation and I made the clear. We will never know unless there was physical evidence of Ross communicating it to someone else. It may have not had anything to do with his race.

 

And if it did, what would Ross' racism have to do with Flores getting a new job with another team? 

 

There would have to be some thinking on the part of Flores and his counsel that what happened in MIA was indicative of racism on the part of the other team.

 

A person would have to think, going into this case, that rich white owners are some sort of club who all think a like. 

 

All emotion, no evidence.  Wanting people to take sides immediately and use the same old labels of Good Ol' Boys are what they are.

 

That is the real problem here. 

 

17 minutes ago, Shive said:

Again, your ignorance is astounding. Please take a moment to actually read some of the claims. An NFL owner trying to bribe his head coach to tank the season is a serious issue. Not to mention setting Flores up with a meeting on his yacht to try to get a "prominent QB" (Tom Brady) to sign with MIA while he was still under contract with NE, Flores being told of the reason for the meeting when he got there and immediately leaving. Ross tried to get Flores to act unethically and against league rules. Somehow Flores is the bad guy in this?

Ignorance about Ross being an unethical guy?  What does it have to do with not getting hired by another team because of his race?

 

Its a tactic.  Ross is an unethical guy.  Then show evidence that the other guy is an unethical guy.  Then that means that my guy wasn't hired and was treated the way he was because he's black.

 

I don't need to know the facts of this particular case nor do I care.  I've seen the script many times.

 

 

 

[GoColts8818]

2 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

I am just playing Devil's Advocate here. But what if the Giants wanted to interview other candidates in case their #1 person backed out. (His wife could say "I love Buffalo and I don't want to leave.".)  I think it may be discrimination if the job had already been offered to Daboll and the Giants asked Flores to come for an interview. 

You still have to give an interview to a minority.  I know the Giants could say we did but then Flores can say it was a token interview which I think is his point and has been the criticism of Rooney rule in general.

[DougDew]

27 minutes ago, Shive said:

Didn't read the facts, but the black guy is obviously lying. You can end your post right there. Everything else after that just the same ignorant drivel. I knew as soon as this topic popped up that it was just a matter of time before you came in here and did exactly this. 

I don't know if he's lying.  If he is claiming racism because Ross is an unethical guy, then I think he doesn't have enough facts about his claim and he needs to stop short of slandering Ross as a racist when he's just an unethical guy.    

 

Which is totally divorced from the situation involving the other team.

 

What have I done.  Had the nerve to actually talk about not lumping rich owners into the same kettle of thinking.  Sorry.

[luv_pony_express]

55 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

The question is why is he highly coveted. Serious question. There is nothing in his history that shows that he will be a good head coach.  That does not mean he won't be. Perhaps he learned from his mistakes and won't make the same mistakes as all the other Pats assistants besides O'Brien and Flores. We will see but he is now getting a chance to show he can be a good coach. 

 

I don’t know.  But I don’t think it makes a lot of sense to be skeptical because of the mediocre records of other Belichick disciples.

 

Look at Bob Knight’s coaching tree.  Most of them, like his son Pat and Dakich and Joby Wright, had so-so records at best.  But then he also happened to mentor the best college basketball coach in history.

2 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

You still have to give an interview to a minority.  I know the Giants could say we did but then Flores can say it was a token interview which I think is his point and has been the criticism of Rooney rule in general.

I think I read somewhere that the Giants had already interviewed Leslie Frazier prior to all this.  Is that right?

[GoColts8818]

4 minutes ago, luv_pony_express said:

I don’t know.  But I don’t think it makes a lot of sense to be skeptical because of the mediocre records of other Belichick disciples.

 

Look at Bob Knight’s coaching tree.  Most of them, like his son Pat and Dakich and Joby Wright, had so-so records at best.  But then he also happened to mentor the best college basketball coach in history.

I think I read somewhere that the Giants had already interviewed Leslie Frazier prior to all this.  Is that right?

I honestly don’t know.  That’s why I said if.  If they did that makes Flores case a lot harder IMO.

[jvan1973]

10 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Yes.  That's what I do here.  I respond to posts (even when they do not have any context, unfortunately).  I do that all of the time, and will make no special effort to do otherwise simply because it involves posts about certain topics.

 

And if it did, what would Ross' racism have to do with Flores getting a new job with another team? 

 

There would have to be some thinking on the part of Flores and his counsel that what happened in MIA was indicative of racism on the part of the other team.

 

A person would have to think, going into this case, that rich white owners are some sort of club who all think a like. 

 

All emotion, no evidence.  Wanting people to take sides immediately and use the same old labels of Good Ol' Boys are what they are.

 

That is the real problem here. 

 

Ignorance about Ross being an unethical guy?  What does it have to do with not getting hired by another team because of his race?

 

Its a tactic.  Ross is an unethical guy.  Then show evidence that the other guy is an unethical guy.  Then that means that my guy wasn't hired and was treated the way he was because he's black.

 

I don't need to know the facts of this particular case nor do I care.  I've seen the script many times.

 

 

 

Typical

[smittywerb]

1 hour ago, luv_pony_express said:

 

Yeah, and I wrote that last sentence carefully.  I wasn't claiming that race hasn't played a role in any recent hiring or firing decisions -- because, how would I know?  I'm sure it was a regular norm at some point and it doesn't seem like the sort of thing that would exist one day and not the next.

 

All I was saying was that, just because any particular hiring/firing decision favors a white coach over a black coach doesn't necessarily mean that race was a factor.  But it certainly could've been.

 

And I agree with you that there are hiring/firing decisions that don't seem to make sense on the surface.  I said as much about the Texans firing Culley.  The guy got one season...after walking into an abject mess other people made and NOT being the worst team in the NFL, which he'd have had every excuse to have been exactly that.

 

ok. Understood.  Agreed!

[chad72]

1 minute ago, GoColts8818 said:

You still have to give an interview to a minority.  I know the Giants could say we did but then Flores can say it was a token interview which I think is his point and has been the criticism of Rooney rule in general.

 

True. I think the point being driven is that the violation of the Rooney rule in intent and practice is unfortunately intertwined with making African Americans primarily a scapegoat in this process, whether it is driven by the owners or GMs. Thus, as an indirect result, singles them mainly out for sham interviews thus resulting in discrimination. Like you said, the unintended consequences of the Rooney rule being played out and GMs/owners have become more bold about using it just as a checklist.

[jvan1973]

6 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I don't know if he's lying.  If he is claiming racism because Ross is an unethical guy, then I think he doesn't have enough facts about his claim and he needs to stop short of slandering Ross as a racist when he's just an unethical guy.    

 

Which is totally divorced from the situation involving the other team.

There are multiple claims about multiple parties.    Maybe refrain from commenting if you have no idea what's going on

[buccolts]

2 hours ago, Shive said:

That and what can be uncovered about any discussions Ross had with Flores trying to bribe him to tank.

 

I've seen that Bill has deep ties with the Mara family, so it would stand to reason that he got inside info ahead of time.

It's not unreasonable to think that Bill could have made a recommendation.