Brian Flores Suing NFL and NY Giants (Merge)

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Holy crap. Read this thread. 
 

 

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[Colt.45]

 

This is an extremely bad look for the league but they'll come out on top. They always do, their product is unrivaled in popularity.

Tanking? Yeah, proof.

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

This is what happens when you force teams to interview minority candidates to satisfy a rule.

 

 

[buccolts]

Wait, so some teams really DO tank?

What a horrible story on a few fronts.

[buccolts]

Hmm, so does he get offered a HC job tomorrow?

[Colt.45]

23 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

This is what happens when you force teams to interview minority candidates to satisfy a rule.

 

 

 

What's the point you're making, for clarity's sake.

[TheNextGM]

He was a head coach for three years and his teams were mediocre at best. 
 

He made millions and is now suing because he wasn’t immediately hired after being let go?

 

Become a DC and earn another spot. Geez, so entitled 

[Nate!]

17 minutes ago, TheNextGM said:

He was a head coach for three years and his teams were mediocre at best. 
 

He made millions and is now suing because he wasn’t immediately hired after being let go?

 

Become a DC and earn another spot. Geez, so entitled 

 

What?  His firing was shocking when it happened considering the team, definitely appeared he had overperformed.  Now this stuff comes out.  Dolphins owner could be in trouble here offering a bribe to lose

[Colt.45]

10 minutes ago, TheNextGM said:

He was a head coach for three years and his teams were mediocre at best. 
 

He made millions and is now suing because he wasn’t immediately hired after being let go?

 

Become a DC and earn another spot. Geez, so entitled 

 

Did you read the suit or you're shooting from the hip based off previous life biases?

[John Waylon]

12 minutes ago, TheNextGM said:

He was a head coach for three years and his teams were mediocre at best. 
 

He made millions and is now suing because he wasn’t immediately hired after being let go?

 

Become a DC and earn another spot. Geez, so entitled 

This post is already aging poorly. 
 

It’s all downhill from here for you. 
 

[AwesomeAustin]

I was wondering how long before the token minority candidate would speak out.  I get his frustration bc his time and hopes were wasted just so teams could check a box bc they have to.  However, he got a head coaching position and never made the playoffs and has a losing record. If it’s true he was told to tank and refused, well fair or not, your boss told you to do something and you didn’t. Sadly, that’s how jobs work as long as you aren’t asked to do something malicious. 
 

I see both sides here. I hope he is able to continue his career. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

They wanted Burrow bad. I will give him credit for not tanking.

[Nate!]

5 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

I was wondering how long before the token minority candidate would speak out.  I get his frustration bc his time and hopes were wasted just so teams could check a box bc they have to.  However, he got a head coaching position and never made the playoffs and has a losing record. If it’s true he was told to tank and refused, well fair or not, your boss told you to do something and you didn’t. Sadly, that’s how jobs work as long as you aren’t asked to do something malicious. 
 

I see both sides here. I hope he is able to continue his careerist 

Told to lose and basically throw the integrity of the sport to the trash and bribed to do so, and since he didn’t, he should be fired.  That’s effectively what you’re saying.   He was asked to do something malicious…. Also was asked to violate league tampering rules and refused.  Also malicious.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Now we see why he was let go. Ownership in Miami is trash. He has to have good character to actually stand up for what is right.

 

This Rooney rule is kind of offensive to minority candidates. They should get interviews based on qualifications not the color of their skin. The rule had good intentions but a lot of unintended consequences.

[Colt.45]

Just now, AwesomeAustin said:

I was wondering how long before the token minority candidate would speak out.  I get his frustration bc his time and hopes were wasted just so teams could check a box bc they have to.  However, he got a head coaching position and never made the playoffs and has a losing record. If it’s true he was told to tank and refused, well fair or not, your boss told you to do something and you didn’t. Sadly, that’s how jobs work as long as you aren’t asked to do something malicious. 
 

I see both sides here. I hope he is able to continue his careerist 

There're no both sides if one party is being treated unfairly and inequitably.

Does he have the ability to coach? Yes or no?

He coached the rotten Dolphins to overachieve in his time there regardless of final record. First season 5-11 then 10-6 then 9-8. All while that GM was allegedly doing dumb things the whole time, and the owner was working actively against you. Have you forgotten the fire sales the Dolphins were having some years back? You know, when they gave away their left tackle to the Texans and a few other players.

 

The guy already had prior clashes with the GM because he wanted Herbert not Tua. 

.

You make the playoffs without a franchise QB? Good luck, how's that been working for our Colts?

 

Malice describes every single thing alleged in the suit. The dude's career is like Kaepernick's.....over.

[Colt.45]

Just now, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Now we see why he was let go. Ownership in Miami is trash. He has to have good character to actually stand up for what is right.

 

This Rooney rule is kind of offensive to minority candidates. They should get interviews based on qualifications not the color of their skin. The rule had good intentions but a lot of intended consequences.

 

1 minute ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Now we see why he was let go. Ownership in Miami is trash. He has to have good character to actually stand up for what is right.

 

This Rooney rule is kind of offensive to minority candidates. They should get interviews based on qualifications not the color of their skin. The rule had good intentions but a lot of intended consequences.

Your points are not coming across clearly. Offensive to minority coaches? In what way? As with your last post, not sure i follow. The rule shouldn't exist in your opinion?

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6 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

 

Your points are not coming across clearly. Offensive to minority coaches? In what way? As with your last post, not sure i follow. The rule shouldn't exist in your opinion?

It’s saying they are too dumb to actually get a interview. So teams have to be forced to interview them. So yes if I was a minority I would find it offensive.

[AwesomeAustin]

11 minutes ago, Nate! said:

Told to lose and basically throw the integrity of the sport to the trash and bribed to do so, and since he didn’t, he should be fired.  That’s effectively what you’re saying.   He was asked to do something malicious…. Also was asked to violate league tampering rules and refused.  Also malicious.  

Integrity in sports ownership doesn’t exist. Every team likely cheats one way or another.  Tanking has been going on for years.  Colts sucked for Luck. This is one of the few times it comes out and will quickly be swept under the rug like every other “scandal” and the NFL will get back to making money

[TheNextGM]

I don’t have any biases, I just find it ironic that a guy that was just the head coach of an NFL team is now suing the NFL and the organization that paid him millions. 
 

Why not release the Denver info years ago when it happened? Why now? Because he’s been fired and is finding it hard to immediately get another head coaching gig. 
 

You telling me Daboll for the Giants isn’t a better hire? Had an elite offence in Buffalo and they need a coach like him to get the most out of D-Jones. 
 

I’m not saying the NFL is perfect.. clearly the owners need to be more responsible and open to different coaches, but Flores just had his shot. Nothing to do with his race, he just wasn’t a great coach.

[TheNextGM]

And for what it’s worth, not that it should matter, but I think the greatest coach was Tony Dungy. Best coach in NFL right now is Mike Tomlin. And I myself am a BLACK man. I bet y’all thought I was white just because I disagreed with the suit. Mind your own biases.

[J@son]

17 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

 

Your points are not coming across clearly. Offensive to minority coaches? In what way? As with your last post, not sure i follow. The rule shouldn't exist in your opinion?

 

There shouldn't be a need for the rule to exist. But unfortunately, even in the 2000s, racism still exists. I get what Chloe is saying and to a degree feel the same way. 

 

Its sad that a rule like the rooney rule is needed.  

[J@son]

2 minutes ago, TheNextGM said:

And for what it’s worth, not that it should matter, but I think the greatest coach was Tony Dungy. Best coach in NFL right now is Mike Tomlin. And I myself am a BLACK man. I bet y’all thought I was white just because I disagreed with the suit. Mind your own biases.

 

Making some assumptions there aren't ya? 

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[stitches]

1 hour ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

This is what happens when you force teams to interview minority candidates to satisfy a rule.

 

 

Or... this is what happens when there is racism in teams' hiring practices...

[stitches]

1 hour ago, TheNextGM said:

He was a head coach for three years and his teams were mediocre at best. 
 

He made millions and is now suing because he wasn’t immediately hired after being let go?

 

Become a DC and earn another spot. Geez, so entitled 

Or... maybe... just maybe... he's suing because there might be some basis for what he's alledging... 

 

I thought Flores did great with what he was given as talent with that Miami team. I was shocked he was fired. I would love for him to be our DC. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, stitches said:

Or... this is what happens when there is racism in teams' hiring practices...

the rule had good intentions but the unintended consequences are bad. People will hire who they want. There has to be better ways for minorities to get interviewed and get their names out there then forcing teams to do it when they already know who they want.  The minority candidates are smart. It’s offensive to make them tokens to probe a point. League is saying your to dumb to get a interview on your own. Just figure out a better way to do it. 

[John Hammonds]

22 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

 

He's not stupid.  He knows what this could cost him.

He may have a point.  He may have a legitimate case.

But.... he's suing the NFL.

Being right may cost him his career.

[stitches]

10 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

the rule had good intentions but the unintended consequences are bad. People will hire who they want. There has to be better ways for minorities to get interviewed and get their names out there then forcing teams to do it when they already know who they want.  The minority candidates are smart. It’s offensive to make them tokens to probe a point. League is saying your to dumb to get a interview on your own. Just figure out a better way to do it. 

I think the consequences were very predictable and I everybody knew this would be happening... still I feel like this rule has positives that are worth preserving - it gets the chance of minority professionals to get in front of league decision makers and make an impression. There would be cases like the one he's describing with the Broncos, but there also would be much more professionally conducted interviews that actually advance the candidate's career in the long run, even if the short term decision is already made  - for example, maybe they don't hire him this time, but they keep him in mind going forward because of good impression left. It also gives opportunity to minority candidates to work out their interviewing skills, which in a lot of cases was not available before. 

 

In essence, IMO the problem is not with the rule, the problem is with the teams not taking it seriously and not taking it as intended. You don't remove a good rule because teams can't wait to find ways to circumvent it... you punish the teams that do that. It will be very interesting to see if they even conduct some sort of investigation into the allegations Flores is making here because a lot of them are very serious. The initial reaction to just deny is incredibly disappointing though. 

[jvan1973]

46 minutes ago, TheNextGM said:

And for what it’s worth, not that it should matter, but I think the greatest coach was Tony Dungy. Best coach in NFL right now is Mike Tomlin. And I myself am a BLACK man. I bet y’all thought I was white just because I disagreed with the suit. Mind your own biases.

Literally no one mentioned your race

Hopefully he has the texts and emails

[Colt.45]

43 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

There shouldn't be a need for the rule to exist. But unfortunately, even in the 2000s, racism still exists. I get what Chloe is saying and to a degree feel the same way. 

 

Its sad that a rule like the rooney rule is needed.  

The rule shouldn't have to exist, and the spirit of the rule has been "ized but if anything, more than we have seen in a while, it's clear WHY the rule was instituted at all.

 

A quick look at the league owners 'yearbook' will tell you everything you need to know about how and why this is an issue still. In any behavior changing endeavor, there has to be a strong will from those who hold power to want to change, that will doesn't exist. Rooney was supposed to force it....but when one wants to do what one wants to do, without strong governance, this happens.

 

So, you're both spot on but the laws/rules were implemented with solid rationale. 

[J@son]

6 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

So, you're both spot on but the laws/rules were implemented with solid rationale. 

 

I'm not disputing that at all

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[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

17 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

The rule shouldn't have to exist, and the spirit of the rule has been "ized but if anything, more than we have seen in a while, it's clear WHY the rule was instituted at all.

 

A quick look at the league owners 'yearbook' will tell you everything you need to know about how and why this is an issue still. In any behavior changing endeavor, there has to be a strong will from those who hold power to want to change, that will doesn't exist. Rooney was supposed to force it....but when one wants to do what one wants to do, without strong governance, this happens.

 

So, you're both spot on but the laws/rules were implemented with solid rationale. 

Yes they had good intentions but the unintended consequences are bad.

[J@son]

2 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Yes they had good intentions but the unintended consequences are bad.

 

As others have said though the positive results that came from the rule should outweigh the unintended negative consequences. 

 

Unfortunately, no matter what rule is put into place there will always be those who do their best to circumvent it or do the bare minimum to appease it. 

 

Maybe they should have a league rep at every interview and/or have them all recorded and submitted to the league to try to prevent a situation like Flores described with Denver.  

[Colt.45]

2 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Yes they had good intentions but the unintended consequences are bad.

The problem is these rules always have built in wiggle room.

And of course, when there are chances given to do better, it's (the NFL) still very much a good ol boys club.

 

This has a smell of Flores not backing down but we'll see if a job placates him. If he truly wants to change things, he will take this all the way to court. It'd really put a squeeze on the league, they always get away with things like this because the person who sues them typically settles. 

[Chrisaaron1023]

*sigh* here we go.... Rooney rule is just insulting in my humble opinion. But who am I? 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

4 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

As others have said though the positive results that came from the rule should outweigh the unintended negative consequences. 

 

Unfortunately, no matter what rule is put into place there will always be those who do their best to circumvent it or do the bare minimum to appease it. 

 

Maybe they should have a league rep at every interview and/or have them all recorded and submitted to the league to try to prevent a situation like Flores described with Denver.  

I would think there are better ways to do it. Is there things they can do to force GM and other organizations to do some training and how it helps the league to get minority candidates more involved. Is it agents getting their names out more? 

 

I agree it has had some good benefits and it’s the teams that don’t take it seriously are what makes it look bad. But that was going to happen with a rule like this. 
 

 

[Colt.45]

1 minute ago, Chrisaaron1023 said:

*sigh* here we go.... Rooney rule is just insulting in my humble opinion. But who am I? 

It is insulting. It's insulting that it had to come to this at all (in 03) but one thing we all must do in life is make sure we dont forget history. This rule came about because of OBVIOUS malpractice. 

 

The fact that almost 2 decades later, we're almost full circle back to where the NFL was back then is....disturbing (nicest way i can put it without getting flagged). 

 

It shouldn't have to happen, it's degrading, it's insulting, yet even with it still in place, the desired effect has just been washed over by the very folks whose behavior needed to change.

 

Money talks, always been the case. If Flores takes this to court, the NFL probably wins the case but that Discovery is going to do damage to their business. The owners would never allow it get that far.