Colts First Round Draft Pick Next Year?

[craigerb]

On 8/3/2021 at 10:32 AM, craigerb said:

Does anyone know if "offensive snaps" includes punts?

Buehler? Buehler?

 

[Dogg63]

On 8/3/2021 at 1:32 PM, craigerb said:

Does anyone know if "offensive snaps" includes punts?

Here's the Games Played rule.

 

Games Played

A player is credited with a game played when he participated in at least one play, even if the only play(s) in which he is involved is (are) nullified by penalty, or even if no playing time is consumed.

 

Credit a player with a game started when he participates in Team A’s first offensive play, or Team B’s first offensive play. For purposes of this rule, the following plays are not regarded as offensive plays:

1. A kickoff

2. An extra-point attempt

3. A punt or a field-goal attempt

4. A free kick following a safety

 

A play nullified by a penalty shall be regarded as a play for purposes of this rule.

 

Example I: A player on Team A returns the opening kickoff to Team B’s 2-yard line. On first down, Team A uses a double tight-end offense; the second tight end is used in place of a wide receiver, who is the usual starter. On first-and-goal, Team A is penalized for holding. On first-and-goal from the 12, the wide receiver replaces the second tight end in the lineup. Scoring: Credit the tight end with a game started; no game started for the wide receiver.

 

https://www.nflgsis.com/gsis/documentation/stadiumguides/guide_for_statisticians.pdf (Page 7)

[TimetobringDfence!]

On 8/3/2021 at 12:54 PM, shasta519 said:

 

SBut we really have no idea if the bolded is true. Wentz has missed the "last game of the season" for various reasons the past 4 seasons. And he will have missed time already this season as well. It could be a very real milestone for him.

 

Confidence at QB is paramount, especially for a guy who they are trying to put back together. So sitting out the final game because the team thinks you could hurt, or because the team doesn't want to lose 32 spots in the draft, doesn't really seem like the way to help build that confidence.

 

And if he's supposed to be the Colts franchise QB, you let him finish the season strong anyways. Just look at Luck, He had injury issues by 2016 (including a torn labrum), but there was no way he was sitting out that meaningless Week 17 game against JAC (the infamous fist bump after the comeback win). 

 

Maybe you are right and Wentz is a team player, but he's still a very competitive athlete and a Type A. And for some reason, I don't think getting his competition/potential replacement more snaps is going to persuade him to take a seat. 

 

And having the rest of the team rally around the other QB to get him a win while Wentz watches sounds way too familiar.  

 

I don't even think you can overthink this...there are so many variables at play. Don't get me wrong...I want to keep that 1st round pick as much as anybody. But the way to do that is organically with a slower rehab process (which is what I think happens), not by intentionally reducing snaps after he comes back. Once he's back, he's the guy unless they want to move on and put in Eason.

 

That's a good look on it. But you know Wentz isn't going to be on board with a slow rehab plan. Do you think the team Dr. Would create a care plan that is intentionally longer than it should take. If  Wentz heels quick he isn't just going sit and watch if he feels like he can go.

[Myles]

2 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

That's a good look on it. But you know Wentz isn't going to be on board with a slow rehab plan. Do you think the team Dr. Would create a care plan that is intentionally longer than it should take. If  Wentz heels quick he isn't just going sit and watch if he feels like he can go.

I agree.  However, if Eason is playing good and the team is winning, they may give him an extra week to heal.   I don't think that will be the case though.   Inexperienced QB's and a tough schedule rarely = good QB play and winning games.

 

 

[masterlock]

On 8/3/2021 at 9:14 AM, AwesomeAustin said:

It would be a terrible decision to purposely not allow Wentz to play to avoid the terms of the conditional pick being upgraded to a 1st round selection.  No team would ever allow us to use this in future negotiations.  If Wentz is able to play and is our best chance at winning, he will play.  

There's no way any team could ever know for sure that the Colts did that, since there would be plausible deniability. They could just claim they were erring on the side of caution. That said, I seriously doubt the Colts would engage in such behavior.

[TonyBungee]

On 8/3/2021 at 11:50 AM, Myles said:

What if: Wentz misses a couple games but by week 18 he has taken 80% of the snaps.

The Colts are 9-7 and have been eliminated from the playoffs.   If he doesn't play in the 17th game against the Jags he will fall below 75% and the Colts would get the 1st round pick (around 16-18).

Would Ballard/Reich sit him?

 

 

Unless he's injured, I really don't think they would.  In the immortal words of Herm Edwards, "You play to win the game."

[NewColtsFan]

For what it’s worth…..

 

My view of our 2022 first round pick is this…

 

He’s already on the team.   And his name is Dayo Odenigboh (sp?).    Next year we should see his true self.   Hopefully worth the wait. 

[craigerb]

10 hours ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

If  Wentz heels quick he isn't just going sit and watch if he feels like he can go.

Let's hope he doesn't roll over and play dead either.

[Jackie Daytona]

On 8/3/2021 at 8:46 AM, King Colt said:

The Colts traded a 2021 third-round pick and a 2022 conditional 2nd-round pick to Philadelphia in exchange for Wentz this offseason. The conditions of the 2022 selection becoming a first-rounder entail Wentz playing 75 percent of the Colts snaps in 2021 or playing 70 percent of the snaps and Indy making the playoffs. If he's out the full 12 weeks, that would put a first-round pick being sent the Eagles' way in jeopardy. Play Wentz 75% and lose a first round pick if the draft includes a bunch of top rated QBs? Since Wentz was horrible in his last season and no guarantee he will be better why risk it?

Well, the draft doesn't include a bunch of top rated qbs, and Wentz isn't gonna be out remotely near 12 weeks, if he misses any reg. Season games at all, so moot point!  

[Jackie Daytona]

On 8/3/2021 at 9:48 AM, The Fish said:

Nah, he showed up with a bad foot that got aggravated.. If anything the Colts shouldn't be eager to try this kind of thing again, anyway.

The terms were negotiated, it's not like the colts came in and had the percentages tacked on a conditional pick.... The eagle wanted a one, the colts wanted to give a 2, so this is what they settled on.... So "trying this kind of thing" would mean agreeing to a counter offer, and they should absolutely be open to accepting them if they think they're favorable

[The Fish]

28 minutes ago, Shafty138 said:

The terms were negotiated, it's not like the colts came in and had the percentages tacked on a conditional pick.... The eagle wanted a one, the colts wanted to give a 2, so this is what they settled on.... So "trying this kind of thing" would mean agreeing to a counter offer, and they should absolutely be open to accepting them if they think they're favorable

"This kind of thing" being acquiring a QB this way- in the relative future. And I'm not sure what other kind of trades would involve so many premium picks? Even getting a guy like Buckner was 1 pick.. but fair enough, if the terms are in the teams favor, do that.

[BlackTiger]

On 8/3/2021 at 8:46 AM, King Colt said:

Since Wentz was horrible in his last season and no guarantee he will be better why risk it?

I can see being against the trade in the first place, but what you are suggesting makes no sense right now.  Why would they trade for someone just to bench him and still lose a second round pick??

 

The goal is to win with Wentz, the backups have not shown nearly enough to think they will be good nfl starters this year either 

[stitches]

The real solution here is - run up the score in the first 3 quarters of every game and let Eason finish the game in the 4th. At 16-0, give the final game to Ehlinger to finish the job  

[ColtV]

On 8/3/2021 at 11:50 AM, Myles said:

What if: Wentz misses a couple games but by week 18 he has taken 80% of the snaps.

The Colts are 9-7 and have been eliminated from the playoffs.   If he doesn't play in the 17th game against the Jags he will fall below 75% and the Colts would get the 1st round pick (around 16-18).

Would Ballard/Reich sit him?

 

 

Would they? Great question. Should they? Yes you sit Wentz. There is literally nothing to gain.

[landrus13]

This whole thing is a moot point. Wentz isn't gonna be benched just to save a first round pick. Ballard/Reich are gonna play him. He's gonna play every snap as long as he's healthy. Wentz is their guy for the next two years. If he stinks, he'll be gone after that. But I think Wentz flourishes in this offense and has an above average season leading us to the playoffs. Ballard isn't going to risk his reputation by trying to "tank" just to save a pick. He wants to win just as bad as Irsay. And no way Irsay signs off on that either. If Wentz is hurt, that's a whole different story and we won't have to worry about the first round pick dilemma. 

[Four2itus]

26 minutes ago, landrus13 said:

This whole thing is a moot point. Wentz isn't gonna be benched just to save a first round pick. Ballard/Reich are gonna play him. He's gonna play every snap as long as he's healthy. Wentz is their guy for the next two years. If he stinks, he'll be gone after that. But I think Wentz flourishes in this offense and has an above average season leading us to the playoffs. Ballard isn't going to risk his reputation by trying to "tank" just to save a pick. He wants to win just as bad as Irsay. And no way Irsay signs off on that either. If Wentz is hurt, that's a whole different story and we won't have to worry about the first round pick dilemma. 

[PrincetonTiger]

33 minutes ago, landrus13 said:

This whole thing is a moot point. Wentz isn't gonna be benched just to save a first round pick. Ballard/Reich are gonna play him. He's gonna play every snap as long as he's healthy. Wentz is their guy for the next two years. If he stinks, he'll be gone after that. But I think Wentz flourishes in this offense and has an above average season leading us to the playoffs. Ballard isn't going to risk his reputation by trying to "tank" just to save a pick. He wants to win just as bad as Irsay. And no way Irsay signs off on that either. If Wentz is hurt, that's a whole different story and we won't have to worry about the first round pick dilemma. 

[jbaron04]

Hopefully it’s a late first round pick lol let the man play 

21 hours ago, landrus13 said:

This whole thing is a moot point. Wentz isn't gonna be benched just to save a first round pick. Ballard/Reich are gonna play him. He's gonna play every snap as long as he's healthy. Wentz is their guy for the next two years. If he stinks, he'll be gone after that. But I think Wentz flourishes in this offense and has an above average season leading us to the playoffs. Ballard isn't going to risk his reputation by trying to "tank" just to save a pick. He wants to win just as bad as Irsay. And no way Irsay signs off on that either. If Wentz is hurt, that's a whole different story and we won't have to worry about the first round pick dilemma. 

Listen colts thinking is that it’s gonna be pick 28-32 lol 

[John Waylon]

They made a commitment to get Wentz. This is who Reich wants. This is who Ballard and Irsay are trusting Reich to be successful with. This is why they didn’t trade for another QB like every * with moving lips said they should in the wake of the Wentz injury. (*Nick Foles weeps silently from the north*) 

 

They’re re going to give the Wentz experiment at least 2 full seasons before they pull the plug on it regardless of where we’re drafting and who is available. Unless he comes out and plays bottom 5 across the board at all times he’s going to get two full seasons to take the reins. They aren’t going to throw away those picks without trying to wring some of the investment back out of them. 
 

If this season goes off the rails they’re going to draft another position, or likely trade down and try to start building up some extra picks again. 
 

And if it’s just not there after next season then they’ll pull the plug. But only then. This wasn’t just adding a player to the roster. They made a much deeper commitment to Wentz, and short of him just flat out %ting the bed he’s going to get a chance until they can move on free of charge. 

[Myles]

On 8/14/2021 at 2:28 PM, landrus13 said:

This whole thing is a moot point. Wentz isn't gonna be benched just to save a first round pick. Ballard/Reich are gonna play him. He's gonna play every snap as long as he's healthy. Wentz is their guy for the next two years. If he stinks, he'll be gone after that. But I think Wentz flourishes in this offense and has an above average season leading us to the playoffs. Ballard isn't going to risk his reputation by trying to "tank" just to save a pick. He wants to win just as bad as Irsay. And no way Irsay signs off on that either. If Wentz is hurt, that's a whole different story and we won't have to worry about the first round pick dilemma. 

Teams don't play starters in the last meaningless game every year.  HAving a 1rest round pick on the line is added incentive