Matthew Stafford (merge)

[rockywoj]

2 hours ago, jchandler7 said:

Goff, two 1st round picks & a 3rd!! Didn't expect the Lions to get that kind of compensation. Glad Ballard didn't sell the farm. 

Wow!  Lions with the steal!   Rams are out of their minds.   I would not have wanted to give up more than a 1st & 2nd max. Glad Ballard ceded to the Rams and their stupidity.  

[LJpalmbeacher2]

6 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

 

 

I wonder how colt fans would feel if colts get into a bit of a bidding duel for Winston's services? 

[NewColtsFan]

4 minutes ago, Shafty138 said:

That price wasn't just for Stafford.....they would have had him for a one and a three....they threw in another one to get Det to eat Goffs deal..... DET is saying they like Goff now, because they can't eat both guys dead money and have no qb.....

I understand.  But someday Detroit will trade Goff in another deal.   Doesn’t have to be this year.   It can be when it suits the Lions best.  They’re doing a long rebuild.  So at the right time, Goff will get turned into more draft picks for the Lions.   Smart play. 

[Gigc]

I'm not crazy about 'em, but I think Trubitsky and Mariota could still be in play.

Winston scares me. He's been a knucklehead...

Ryan is another stopgap like Rivers was. And I think you'd have to trade almost as much for moving up into the top 12 for a rookie QB as you would have for Stafford. Not THAT much, but it would cost a lot to move from 21 to 12 and under. And really, there are only 3 rookies that are really intriguing. Those could go in the top 5 or 6.

[Jackie Daytona]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

I understand.  But someday Detroit will trade Goff in another deal.   Doesn’t have to be this year.   It can be when it suits the Lions best.  They’re doing a long rebuild.  So at the right time, Goff will get turned into more draft picks for the Lions.   Smart play. 

Could be.  Could not be.  Who cares.

[GoColts8818]

Just now, danlhart87 said:

Its even better if they stick with him cause that's 1 less team taking QB

 

We know SF and WFT will be looking based on their Stafford interest 

And New England maybe the Falcons, Broncos, Panthers ,and, Saints as well although the later would need to trade up.  It’s not impossible that the Bears or Vikings look for a QB as well.  The Steelers and Texans could also be in the mix for a QB depending on if the Steelers want their next guy or if the Texans move on from Watson.  
 

Given that list of teams that’s why Ballard said he doesn’t expect a QB to be there at 21. If the Colts want one they will have to go get one.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

SF, WA, Carolina are all going to be looking to draft a QB.  That doesn’t even take into consideration the jets. Oh patriots too. It’s going to be pretty hard to move up. Teams won’t want to drop down to 21.

[danlhart87]

2 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

I wonder how colt fans would feel if colts get into a bit of a bidding duel for Winston's services? 

Saints or Bears can have him

[NewColtsFan]

5 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I don’t think Darnold is really available.  I think the Jets are singling they are going to give him another shot with a new coaching staff and see if the problem was Gase.  Given what happened with Tannelhill when he got away from Gase it’s hard to argue with that especially if Darnold struggles this year they will probably be in position to get a QB again next year.  

I think there’s a decent chance you’re right.   But we won’t really know for sure until after the draft.   If the Jets take a QB,  then they’ll move Darnold. 

[danlhart87]

Just now, Chloe6124 said:

SF, WA, Carolina are all going to be looking to draft a QB.  That doesn’t even take into consideration the jets. Oh patriots too. It’s going to be pretty hard to move up. Teams won’t want to drop down to 21.

Saleh seems like he wants to keep Darnold. SF might keep Jimmy and draft CB.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

6 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

And when the time is right, the Lions will trade Goff and collect even more draft capital.   Doesn’t have to be this year, though it might.   But someday another deal will bring mire draft picks.  Good for them. 

 

Maybe they will deal him to the colts if we dont get Wentz? 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

I wonder how colt fans would feel if colts get into a bit of a bidding duel for Winston's services? 

I do wonder with this run game and more of a quick hitting offense if Reich could work some magic with him. He most likely won’t be able to be had for a one or two year deal with the saints possibly needing a QB.

[NewColtsFan]

2 minutes ago, Shafty138 said:

Could be.  Could not be.  Who cares.

I was addressing your point that the Lions got an extra one to absorb Goff and his bad contract.   I’m showing that they ultimately will get more eventually.   Goff may never be great, but he can serviceable and has value. 
Someday Detroit will cash in that chip.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

I think there’s a decent chance you’re right.   But we won’t really know for sure until after the draft.   If the Jets take a QB,  then they’ll move Darnold. 

The good thing is they can move him before the draft if they decide to draft a QB. They will be able to get anyone but Lawrence.

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

I was addressing your point that the Lions got an extra one to absorb Goff and his bad contract.   I’m showing that they ultimately will get more eventually.   Goff may never be great, but he can serviceable and has value. 
Someday Detroit will cash in that chip.  

He won’t have much value if they turn around and trade him after a year or so.

[NewColtsFan]

1 minute ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

Maybe they will deal him to the colts if we dont get Wentz? 

I suppose that’s possible.  I’m not much of a Goff fan, but that may work out to be the play — someday. 

[Colts_Fan12]

23 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I don’t think either of them are going to be available.  My guess is the Lions see Goff as the bridge to their rookie and I think after seeing how getting away from Gase fixed Tannelhill are going to stick with Darnold for another year and if he’s bad again they will probably be bad and be in position to get a QB next year.  

I hope the jets stick with Darnold then that would keep Wilson on the board past them 

[Bravo]

21 minutes ago, lennymoore24 said:

As has been argued by me, Eason has as much POTENTIAL as any QB in this draft outside of Lawrence in my opinion.  He has the arm, accuracy, size, and quick release.  Unlike Brissett, he is not afraid to put the ball down the field. And he has never had an issue with throwing too many interceptions.  The only question on him is how does he react to NFL defenses and coverage.  But I would rather give him that chance then throwing away the draft for a guy like Fields or Lance who have just as much chance to fail imho.

he really only played 2 years of college. His freshman year wasn’t a great year either. So he really only had 1 great season. Also a knack about him coming out of college was he didn’t work hard and his love for the game didn’t seem all there.

 

I agree that his arm has the ability to be elite but like you said there is so much more than that at the NFL level to be a winner.

 

Eason just needs experience and to prove he is a hard worker. He didn’t even have a chance to play in any preseason games last season. The Colts obviously don’t trust him yet.

 

Im for it, but I don’t think the Colts are.

[rockywoj]

2 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Rams are actually paying to unload Goff's contract as much as they are to get Stafford. Huge dead cap this year, and pretty big next too. 

 

Future picks are devalued by about 10-16 positions IIRC, so it's comparable to a 3rd and 2x 2nd round picks.

 

But it’s not two 2nds, it is a 3rd and two 1st rounders, and Goff!  Although Stafford is an upgrade, Rams are out of their minds paying that price, imho.

[danlhart87]

[EastStreet]

3 minutes ago, rockywoj said:

But it’s not two 2nds, it is a 3rd and two 1st rounders, and Goff!  Although Stafford is an upgrade, Rams are out of their minds paying that price, imho.

Not sure if you got what I said. Future picks are devalued by 10-16 picks. It's the same for a person giving up the picks, kind of... but for the receiving team, it's very devalued. 

[NewColtsFan]

10 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

The good thing is they can move him before the draft if they decide to draft a QB. They will be able to get anyone but Lawrence.

He won’t have much value if they turn around and trade him after a year or so.

Perhaps...   but if he shows well playing for Detroit, then he will still have enough value for the Lions to get more picks.  I may not Goff that much, but he does have some value. 

[waterdog]

7 minutes ago, bravo4460 said:

he really only played 2 years of college. His freshman year wasn’t a great year either. So he really only had 1 great season. Also a knack about him coming out of college was he didn’t work hard and his love for the game didn’t seem all there.

 

I agree that his arm has the ability to be elite but like you said there is so much more than that at the NFL level to be a winner.

 

Eason just needs experience and to prove he is a hard worker. He didn’t even have a chance to play in any preseason games last season. The Colts obviously don’t trust him yet.

 

Im for it, but I don’t think the Colts are.

'hard worker' may be the tough ask.

[Patrick Miller]

I just read a rumor that Colts are interested in Winston.

[rockywoj]

6 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Not sure if you got what I said. Future picks are devalued by 10-16 picks. It's the same for a person giving up the picks, kind of... but for the receiving team, it's very devalued. 

I understand what you are saying, but I disagree with that level of time devaluation.  No matter how you look at it, when next year rolls around, Lion’s get the Rams’ 1st, and the same after that.  Time devaluation is a fool’s game.  Rams gave up PREMIUM picks!

[danlhart87]

1 minute ago, Patrick Miller said:

I just read a rumor that Colts are interested in Winston.

Dislike big time

[NewColtsFan]

Just now, waterdog said:

'hard worker' may be the tough ask.

Well...   no matter what the knock was on Eason in college, we’re now talking about him at the NFL level.   By all accounts, (Ballard, Reich, Sirianni and Brady) they all say he worked hard, had a good attitude, and said and did all the right things.   So Eason has passed his first test.  
 

But again, he appears he’s not ready to be the starter this year.   Maybe next year, but not 2021. 

[Sumo63]

I think its hilarious...."too much for Stafford".  Now we make ourselves feel better about a mentally broken Sam Darnold, productive int machine Winston, and "what's up with" Wentz .

 

 Eventually Ballard has to make a bold move.  This was the year to do it and Stafford was the guy.

 

 I'm still hopeful.  I cant see the future and I know internally the Colts know SO much more than I do but from the outside Ballard "not forcing it" at qb is starting to look like cowardice.

 

Half decade, built a great roster, but zero stability at qb.  Stafford was 5 to 7 years of stability.  Unless Ballard can land Watson (and maybe he can) no other qb offers that security. Imo that stability is worth the cost of entry.

 

Rams knew it, they already had a "franchise" guy who is arguably better than the remaining market and they still pulled the trigger.......SB windows close quickly and we're in ours.

 

Can't wait to see if Ballard will capitalize or if hes just treading water.

 

 

[EastStreet]

4 minutes ago, rockywoj said:

I understand what you are saying, but I disagree with that level of time devaluation.  No matter how you look at it, when next year rolls around, Lion’s get the Rams’ 1st, and the same after that.  Time devaluation is a fool’s game.  Rams gave up PREMIUM picks!

A first today is worth more than a first tomorrow. Losing out on success today has a cost. It's nice to have draft capital tomorrow, but it's still kicking the can down the road. How may times have other teams have had a lot of draft capital and done did diddily. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

If we end up not drafting and getting a mediocre vet it’s going to be hard to sell that’ to the players.

[waterdog]

I voted for 'other' because low risk options weren't listed.

I'll repeat: Fitzpatrick, and Trubisky, and will add Lamar's backup in Buffalo 2 weeks ago(Tyler Huntley).

Fitzpatrick scored 48 on the Wunderlic, Trubisky threw a 77 yard (incomplete) pass in Arizona couple of years ago, and probably was wrecked by Nagy, and Huntley looked as good as many of the current 'experiments', many of which are hanging by a thread(Kyler Murray, Lamar, Tua, Darnold, Locke...I could have said Jameis but his foot speed is slower than Rivers'.

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, Sumo63 said:

I think its hilarious...."too much for Stafford".  Now we make ourselves feel better about a mentally broken Sam Darnold, productive int machine Wilson, and "what's up with" Wentz .

 

 Eventually Ballard has to make a bold move.  This was the year to do it and Stafford was the guy.

 

 I'm still hopeful.  I cant see the future and I know internally the Colts know SO much more than I do but from the outside Ballard "not forcing it" at qb is starting to look like cowardice.

 

Half decade, built a great roster, but zero stability at qb.  Stafford was 5 to 7 years of stability.  Unless Ballard can land Watson (and maybe he can) no other qb offers that security. Imo that stability is worth the cost of entry.

 

Rams knew it, they already had a "franchise" guy who is arguably better than the remaining market and they still pulled the trigger.......SB windows close quickly and we're in ours.

 

Can't wait to see if Ballard will capitalize or if hes just treading water.

 

 

If it will make you feel better I don’t think there was anything Ballard could offer to land Stafford. He wanted to go to LA. He got his wish and doesn’t even have to move his family.

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, Sumo63 said:

I think its hilarious...."too much for Stafford".  Now we make ourselves feel better about a mentally broken Sam Darnold, productive int machine Wilson, and "what's up with" Wentz .

 

 Eventually Ballard has to make a bold move.  This was the year to do it and Stafford was the guy.

 

 I'm still hopeful.  I cant see the future and I know internally the Colts know SO much more than I do but from the outside Ballard "not forcing it" at qb is starting to look like cowardice.

 

Half decade, built a great roster, but zero stability at qb.  Stafford was 5 to 7 years of stability.  Unless Ballard can land Watson (and maybe he can) no other qb offers that security. Imo that stability is worth the cost of entry.

 

Rams knew it, they already had a "franchise" guy who is arguably better than the remaining market and they still pulled the trigger.......SB windows close quickly and we're in ours.

 

Can't wait to see if Ballard will capitalize or if hes just treading water.

I agree with your sentiment, but not sure if I would have given up that capital. 

 

IMO. someone in the Lions org felt like they could salvage Goff. I think that's a stupid path. He's decent, but he needs a lot of support, which the Lions don't have. 

 

I'm curious to see how the Lions deal with the cap situation. IMO, they don't have what it takes to make Goff successful. It's a dumb move. We'll see in 3 years. 

[Tsarquise]

31 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

People here are mostly interested in opinions.   Less so in facts and good information.   It’s always been that way.

 

And your point about teams being interested in GOOD Quarterbacks supports MY point not yours.   There are 32 teams, but there are NEVER 32 good quarterbacks.  Never have been, likely never will be.   The position is just so hard to play at a high level. 
 

And no matter what you and I think I of Sam Darnold, it only takes two teams to be interested to drive up the price.  The odds that only two teams will be interested are small. 
 

One last thought....   You’re a long time poster here.  You’re not the first poster to try and infer that I don’t know much more than anyone else.   Look, I 100 percent believe that everyone is entitled to their own opinion.   But I also believe that all opinions are not equal.  If you disagree, that’s your right.   We will just have to agree to disagree. 

It only proves your point if teams think he is a good QB. How do you not understand that?  And how far the price gets driven, once again, is determined by how the teams that are interested in Darnold value him,  what the base offers are, and how much impulse control the GM of the interested team has. 

 

There is a low supply of good and great QB's. There is a very low supply of young, good to great QB's.

 

There is not a low supply of QB's in general. And not a low supply of young QB's in general. 

 

I don't think that all opinions are equal; you just come across as if your opinion is the authority. Your posts are overly abrasive and condescending and you take the forum too seriously. It makes for toxic discussion. 

 

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

They may not get a 1

 

And now you have already admitted that he may not go for a first lol. 

[Sumo63]

1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

If it will make you feel better I don’t think there was anything Ballard could offer to land Stafford. He wanted to go to LA. He got his wish and doesn’t even have to move his family.

If the colts were truly a top 3 landing spot they could have landed him.  It just "costs" and Ballard seems reluctant to "pay".  Better than average Qbs are going to require a premium.  Picking in the teen to twenties isn't going to get it done. 

 

Again I acknowledge Ballard knows WAY more than I do.  I'm just speaking from the outside looking in.

[a06cc]

Let’s see what we do in the draft. I’m all for letting us see what we have in Eason. If JB returns I’m okay with that as well. I will being up my reason why I believe in another thread. 

[rockywoj]

4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

A first today is worth more than a first tomorrow. Losing out on success today has a cost. It's nice to have draft capital tomorrow, but it's still kicking the can down the road. How may times have other teams have had a lot of draft capital and done did diddily. 

I am a finance guy, I very much understand the time devaluation of money.  Similarly, I understand that a pick now is, in theory, worth more than a pick tomorrow.  BUT, no matter how you look at it, Rams have very much hurt their ability to add premium players.  And you can’t use the ‘ol do diddly with the picks argument, for that applies whether the pick is today, tomorrow, or the day after.   Rams just got fleeced!  I suppose if Stafford balls out and makes them truly a perennial SB contender, one can argue that the price was worth it, but man, in my book of value, Rams got fleeced and Lions made out like bandits.  I am really disappointed that the Colts didn’t get Stafford, but with that asking price, I personally would have zero interest.  To me, just a bad, BAD organizational move by the Rams.  I think they’ve killed themselves with this move, looking beyond the next 2 years. 

[shasta519]

5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I agree with your sentiment, but not sure if I would have given up that capital. 

 

IMO. someone in the Lions org felt like they could salvage Goff. I think that's a stupid path. He's decent, but he needs a lot of support, which the Lions don't have. 

 

I'm curious to see how the Lions deal with the cap situation. IMO, they don't have what it takes to make Goff successful. It's a dumb move. We'll see in 3 years. 

That someone in the Lions org was the LAR’s director of college scouting for the past decade (including when Goff got drafted. Once the LAR entered the mix...I had a feeling Stafford to the Colts was dead.

 

[GoColts8818]

19 minutes ago, Sumo63 said:

I think its hilarious...."too much for Stafford".  Now we make ourselves feel better about a mentally broken Sam Darnold, productive int machine Winston, and "what's up with" Wentz .

 

 Eventually Ballard has to make a bold move.  This was the year to do it and Stafford was the guy.

 

 I'm still hopeful.  I cant see the future and I know internally the Colts know SO much more than I do but from the outside Ballard "not forcing it" at qb is starting to look like cowardice.

 

Half decade, built a great roster, but zero stability at qb.  Stafford was 5 to 7 years of stability.  Unless Ballard can land Watson (and maybe he can) no other qb offers that security. Imo that stability is worth the cost of entry.

 

Rams knew it, they already had a "franchise" guy who is arguably better than the remaining market and they still pulled the trigger.......SB windows close quickly and we're in ours.

 

Can't wait to see if Ballard will capitalize or if hes just treading water.

 

 

The Texans aren’t going to trade Watson within the division.

 

This is the year fans want Ballard to make a bold move and go get a QB.  Ballard has already said he doesn’t see it that way and said why.  He knows if he gets it wrong he’s getting fired.  So he’s not going to go all in on a QB just because he needs one.  He’s going to look for the right one and that may or may not be this year.  He’s also not going to pay a king’s ransom for one.  That’s just not who Ballard is.  
 

Fans don’t like this because we have gotten used to Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck and naturally want another one, who doesn’t?  We also want to win a Super Bowl every year and we have luxury of getting to use 20/20 hindsight on every move and never have to worry about losing our jobs or our status as fans if the moves we want don’t work out.  
 

I said from the start this was going to require patience and it still does.  What last year showed was if the Colts get good QB play they will be a very good team because of their power running game and their defense.  They don’t have to have a franchise QB to win, don’t get me wrong it would make things a lot easier, but this team isn’t built like it was for Manning or Luck where it was get on their back and we will go as far as they can carry us.  
 

They need a solid option.  I am sure Ballard is looking for one but the price has to be right because he’s not going to mortgage the future to try to win a Super Bowl in the next year or two and then fall apart because all their players got old or left and they had no draft picks to replace them.  He’s trying to build a sustained winning team that can compete for Super Bowls for the next ten years.  

He also has a lot of other holes to fill, not the least of which is the starting left tackle spot, so he’s not going to trade away all his draft picks for a QB when he has no other picks to put players around his QB.  

 

So again, as hard as this is, we need to stay patient.  We know the Colts aren’t going to go into next year with just Eason on the roster at QB.  So sooner or later he will do something.  Be prepared though it might be another bridge guy like Rivers was if he can’t find the right guy or the price is just too high.  Ballard is going to wait for the right guy at the right price.  People like to say in Ballard I trust.  Nows the time to show you mean it.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

4 minutes ago, Sumo63 said:

If the colts were truly a top 3 landing spot they could have landed him.  It just "costs" and Ballard seems reluctant to "pay".  Better than average Qbs are going to require a premium.  Picking in the teen to twenties isn't going to get it done. 

 

Again I acknowledge Ballard knows WAY more than I do.  I'm just speaking from the outside looking in.

Rams had a wildcard with Goff to unload. That makes it pretty attractive for the lions to be able to get they extra pick. If Goff wasn’t in the picture another team might of had a better chance.

[Sumo63]

4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I agree with your sentiment, but not sure if I would have given up that capital. 

 

IMO. someone in the Lions org felt like they could salvage Goff. I think that's a stupid path. He's decent, but he needs a lot of support, which the Lions don't have. 

 

I'm curious to see how the Lions deal with the cap situation. IMO, they don't have what it takes to make Goff successful. It's a dumb move. We'll see in 3 years. 

I personally dont care what the lions do on the back end. Although my best friend is a lions fan.  Who was going to convert if we landed Stafford. (We went to opening day at Lucas oil in 16).

 

Colts need a solid qb with multiple years left in him.  Jumping from bandaid to bandaid just closes our window.  

 

We dont need a superstar, I think Rivers proved that, our failings were mostly coaching this year. we just need multi year stability and solid play.