Qb for next year/QB class of 2021 (merge)

[w87r]

1 minute ago, shasta519 said:

Not intentionally. They were very good this year...just not ‘14-15 DEN or ‘19 SF good. I think the Colts being that good on defense is a realistic expectation.

2019 SF:

#3 in yds per game

#2 in rush yds per game

#8 in pass yds per game

#5 in pts per game.

#3 in QBR against

#1 in sacks

 

2014 DEN:

#8 in yds per game

#5 in rush yds per game

#9 in pass yds per game

#7 in pts per game.

#2 in QBR against

#12 in sacks

 

2020 TB:

#6 in yds per game

#2 in rush yds per game

#10 in pass yds per game

#7 in pts per game.

#3 in QBR against

#1 in sacks

 

https://www.covers.com/sport/football/nfl/statistics/team-defense/2014-2015

https://www.covers.com/sport/football/nfl/statistics/team-defense/2019-2020

https://www.covers.com/sport/football/nfl/statistics/team-defense/2020-2021

[Tsarquise]

10 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

Not intentionally. They were very good this year...just not ‘14-15 DEN or ‘19 SF good. I think the Colts being that good on defense is a realistic expectation.

I think you meant 2015-2016 Denver defense. 

[craigerb]

2 hours ago, joecolts said:

I too believe Stafford is the #1 target for the Colts and it's going to cost the 2 1st rounders or, 1st and 2 2nd rounders.  

Too much.

[w87r]

1 minute ago, Tsarquise said:

I think you meant 2015-2016 Denver defense. 

2015 DEN:

#9 in yds per game

#4 in rush yds per game

#10 in pass yds per game

#3 in pts per game.

#4 in QBR against

#1 in sacks

 

A little better in 2015 than 2014.

 

2014 DEN:

#8 in yds per game

#5 in rush yds per game

#9 in pass yds per game

#7 in pts per game.

#2 in QBR against

#12 in sacks

[w87r]

Sorry back to Stafford. Hopefully either way it goes something comes out soon unofficially. Either coming here or going somewhere else.

 

Just put us at ease.

[Superman]

32 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

It's not better for next season...but my response would be that "better" is really subjective. It really depends on how you value risk or reward...and how you value long-term or short-term. Plus...there's more to context to it...than just acquiring a known performer and an unknown entity.

 

Stafford is a proven QB...and I would be excited if they got him. But he's also 33...which could be near the end of his prime. And he's not a FA...he still requires serious draft capital.

 

So for the price of a proven talent...you pay a big contract AND give up draft capital. It would be less draft capital than trading up...but it would be significantly more money. And that makes it that much more difficult to supplement the roster. And while it is less risky...the upside is capped. Stafford isn't going to turn into a Josh Allen type player...like a draft pick might.

 

Looking at the group of recent SB contenders (which is of course small)...only three teams went to the SB (in the past 10 years) with a QB they didn't draft...DEN, SF and TB (Foles was an outlier...but he was actually drafted by PHI).

 

So that was PFM...with an elite defense...and Jimmy G (who was 26 when they traded for him) with an elite defense...and Tom Brady. Two of those QBs are top 5 all-time...and two of those teams had better defenses than we can realistically hope to have in Indy.

 

Trading up is a huge risk...but it has the highest reward...if winning the SB is the goal. 

 

If you identify the guy in the draft, I'm all about going up for him. But if -- IF -- he turns out to be a foundational kind of QB, that's still a play that's more likely to benefit us in 2023 than in 2021. So we have to acknowledge that. (And that's on top of the possibility that he never quite hits as a franchise QB, which is statistically the more likely outcome with a drafted player.)

 

And a nitpick, 'going to the SB' isn't the only way to judge whether a veteran QB acquisition worked out well for the team that acquired him. The 2020 Colts are a specific example. There's no question that we were closer to contending with Rivers than we were with JB. Tannehill is working out well for the Titans, etc. Alex Smith was looking good for Washington before his injury (which had nothing to do with age; Teddy Bridgewater's career got derailed similarly).

 

The reason the list is so short is because historically, good QBs don't leave the team that drafted them, at least not until their old and/or broken (Manning, Favre, Warner, Brees, etc.) The idea of trading for a player like Stafford at 32, and having a reasonable expectation that he could play at a high level for another five years, isn't something that generally has happened a lot in the NFL.

 

I think it's interesting that you say a draft pick has a better chance of being a Josh Allen-level player. I think either we disagree on how good Allen is, or we disagree on how good Stafford is. As a passer, I think Allen still has some work to do to be as good as Stafford has already been. He has a bigger arm (obviously), and he does more with his legs, but Stafford is a really good passer, even dynamic, and he's no slouch with his movement ability.

 

I think trading up is more risky than we're acknowledging (collectively). Doesn't mean I'm against it, but when you're talking about risk/reward, even with the higher salary for Stafford, the risk is significantly lower to get him.

 

1 minute ago, w87r said:

Sorry back to Stafford. Hopefully either way it goes something comes out soon unofficially. Either coming here or going somewhere else.

 

Just put us at ease.

 

I don't think the Lions are in any hurry, nor should they be. 

[craigerb]

2 hours ago, TheNextGM said:

A 1st and a conditional 2nd.. becomes a 1st if Colts make AFC Championship game.

No, becomes 2 1sts.

 

[Btown_Colt]

1 hour ago, The Fish said:

The "if's" aren't the hardest thing to get done if Stafford shows up- at least on offense. If nothing changed, the offense with Stafford would be better than it was last year and there's going to be some fresh guys coming in anyway.

 

I'd save my "if's" for the secondary. That whole group sans 3 or 4 guys is in rough shape. 

I agree, except for the LT that retired and the WR that is a FA! But I agree with you, keep the same offense as last year but with Stafford and it should have been just as good but I will argue even better and we would probably be talking about TY’s extension not speculating if they will or won’t bring him back. JMO

 

[w87r]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't think the Lions are in any hurry, nor should they be

I agree, still would like to not have to worry about it for the next 50 days. Sooner the better, either way.(for us)

[w87r]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/category/rumor-mill/

 

That’s the obvious import of the news that a third of the league has reached out to the Lions. A third of the league. Ten teams. For a 32-year-old franchise quarterback who is going to get his wish for a new franchise.

The Lions undoubtedly leaked that number to NFL Media in order to generate more interest. Surely, they expected to hear from more than 10 teams — especially since calls always get made when a key veteran player is available as part of the normal due diligence process.

 

 

all about perspective, we are here thinking 10 teams inquiring is a lot, Detroit thought it would be more.

[GoColts8818]

13 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't think the Lions are in any hurry, nor should they be. 

 But a guy commented on a tweet about a local podcast saying it was a done deal and he will be a Colt by the end of the week!  How’s that NOT going to be spot on...

[Superman]

25 minutes ago, w87r said:

I agree, still would like to not have to worry about it for the next 50 days. Sooner the better, either way.(for us)

 

15 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

 But a guy commented on a tweet about a local podcast saying it was a done deal and he will be a Colt by the end of the week!  How’s that NOT going to be spot on...

 

I'm not predicting anything, just saying it's probably not safe for your mental well being (or your keyboard) to lay on the F5 key waiting for news about Stafford being traded. Trade can't be official until March, and nothing else of consequence around the league could really force their hand before they have an offer they like. 

 

And they could make an agreement in the next five minutes. Personally, I'm buckling in for the next week or two.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

21 minutes ago, w87r said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/category/rumor-mill/

 

That’s the obvious import of the news that a third of the league has reached out to the Lions. A third of the league. Ten teams. For a 32-year-old franchise quarterback who is going to get his wish for a new franchise.

The Lions undoubtedly leaked that number to NFL Media in order to generate more interest. Surely, they expected to hear from more than 10 teams — especially since calls always get made when a key veteran player is available as part of the normal due diligence process.

 

 

all about perspective, we are here thinking 10 teams inquiring is a lot, Detroit thought it would be more.

I never thought of it that way. Maybe they aren’t getting offered what they thought. Maybe it isn’t even ten.  

[w87r]

8 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

 

I'm not predicting anything, just saying it's probably not safe for your mental well being (or your keyboard) to lay on the F5 key waiting for news about Stafford being traded. Trade can't be official until March, and nothing else of consequence around the league could really force their hand before they have an offer they like. 

 

And they could make an agreement in the next five minutes. Personally, I'm buckling in for the next week or two.

Yeah, I know. I'm not stressing it to much, at the end of the day its entertainment. I love the NFL offseason though, it rivals the actual season for me. Just be nice to check our biggest positional situation off the list.

 

Im in the midst of selling my house and moving. That is taking the mental toll on me at the moment. Getting it ready and such. Not to worried with the market Im sure my house will be under contract in a couple days, more worried about finding my next house in timely matter or being homeless for a little bit.(figuratively speaking, wouldn't ever want to co pare it to actual homelessness.)

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I don’t think the lions will be in a hurry but they pretty much know all the offers by now. Not much will change. The question becomes if this drags on to see if Watson is available. Saw today if Goff can’t be traded there will be a QB competition there.

[GoColts8818]

8 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

 

I'm not predicting anything, just saying it's probably not safe for your mental well being (or your keyboard) to lay on the F5 key waiting for news about Stafford being traded. Trade can't be official until March, and nothing else of consequence around the league could really force their hand before they have an offer they like. 

 

And they could make an agreement in the next five minutes. Personally, I'm buckling in for the next week or two.

I was just being sarcastic because of all the leaf reading that’s going on.  I get people wanting to know but people are going to have to be patient.

[PeacefulEasonFeeling]

2 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

Yeah, we need some fallback for good news in case Brady wins his 7th ring becoming the Lord of the rings!!!  

Brady does not become Sauron until he acquires the 20th ring: 3 for the Elf-Kings, 7 for the Dwarf-Lords, 9 for Mortal Men, 1 for the Dark Lord. Chin up!

 

 

 

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

This guy is always wrong and just throws crap out there. But since he is friends with Reich I will post this. Just don’t take it to serious. 

 

 

[chad72]

10 minutes ago, PeacefulEasonFeeling said:

Brady does not become Sauron until he acquires the 20th ring: 3 for the Elf-Kings, 7 for the Dwarf-Lords, 9 for Mortal Men, 1 for the Dark Lord. Chin up!

 

 

I guess he can settle for pleasing the Dwarf-Lords for now.  

 

[joeb]

We have to get Stafford. He will be quite expensive too. Multiple draft picks. If not a big name player plus picks. There will be competition from the Broncos, 49ers, Redskins, Patriots. Andrew Luck walking away hurt us really bad. Now it's time to pay the piper. Darnold is another possibility. I think he could be successful in Indy. Watson forget it , we would have to give up the whole draft.

[danlhart87]

Give them Leonard and a 2nd

[GoColts8818]

4 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

Give them Leonard and a 2nd

How about no.  Leonard should not be traded.

[poilucelt]

11 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Take this with a grain of salt. Just fun speculation and rumor.

 

 

fascinating, since there's a 49ers beat writer who's saying today "according to a source within the organization who's very close to the situation" that Stafford-to-SF is basically a all but a done deal

 

guess we'll know one way or the other pretty soon

[danlhart87]

6 minutes ago, poilucelt said:

fascinating, since there's a 49ers beat writer who's saying today "according to a source within the organization who's very close to the situation" that Stafford-to-SF is basically a all but a done deal

 

guess we'll know one way or the other pretty soon

Would make me happy 

I like Stafford for the right price 

[danlhart87]

9 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

How about no.  Leonard should not be traded.

If it means getting a franchise QB i would gladly trade Leonard 

[GoColts8818]

2 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

If it means getting a franchise QB i would gladly trade Leonard 

No.  Not unless you are getting the next Peyton Manning and a 33 year old Matt Stafford  is not the next Peyton Manning.  There is one maybe two QBs out there that would be on that level that would be available.  They aren’t getting Watson and Rodgers is too old to give up your second best defensive player for.

[danlhart87]

6 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

No.  Not unless you are getting the next Peyton Manning and a 33 year old Matt Stafford  is not the next Peyton Manning.  There is one maybe two QBs out there that would be on that level that would be available.  They aren’t getting Watson and Rodgers is too old to give up your second best defensive player for.

You put way too much stock into Leonard. I love the guy but it will be a QB who helps the Colts win it all. Not DL!

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I will cry if SF gets Stafford.SF can offer Jimmy G as a bridge to the young QB they draft. That could be a good incentive for a trade. We are screwed if we don’t get him. Or Jimmy G will be traded to another team. If we end up with him that would do deflating. 

21 minutes ago, poilucelt said:

fascinating, since there's a 49ers beat writer who's saying today "according to a source within the organization who's very close to the situation" that Stafford-to-SF is basically a all but a done deal

 

guess we'll know one way or the other pretty soon

Where did you see or hear that?

[GoColts8818]

4 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

You put way too much stock into Leonard. I love the guy but it will be a QB who helps the Colts win it all. Not DL!

I think you under value him.  Also Leonard doesn’t play DL.  He’s a linebacker.  

[colts89]

7 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

You put way too much stock into Leonard. I love the guy but it will be a QB who helps the Colts win it all. Not DL!

Thank God Ballard doesn't think the same way. Sounds like something Dan Snyder would do though lmaooo 

[danlhart87]

5 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I think you under value him.  Also Leonard doesn’t play DL.  He’s a linebacker.  

DL is Darius Leonard 

[danlhart87]

1 minute ago, colts89 said:

Thank God Ballard doesn't think the same way. Sounds like something Dan Snyder would do though lmaooo 

if I am choosing between a LB or QB im taking the QB 10 times out of 10

 

I realize we can have both but it might take us sweetening the pot

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I wonder if some of the stuff saying SF is close to a deal is coming from the Lions trying to drive the price up.

[#12.]

Who knows what is going to happen.  This whole situation is strange.  Unless you have some type of deal in place for Stafford or maybe Wentz, or you have a top 3 pick, why would you push Rivers out?   Nothing is guaranteed. 

 

Maybe Luck is coming back.

[w87r]

Trade an All Pro and heart of the team and keep a draft pick... 

 

You don't trade an all pro so you can have a chance to maybe draft another one.

 

Sure thing >>>>>>>> dice roll. Not even a question.

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

It’s going to be a long off season if we don’t get Stafford. At that point we may have to trade all the way up to get a draft pick.

 

JMV said the only guy he has heard the colts liked was Fields.

[danlhart87]

2 minutes ago, w87r said:

Trade an All Pro and heart of the team and keep a draft pick... 

 

You don't trade an all pro so you can have a chance to maybe draft another one.

 

Sure thing >>>>>>>> dice roll. Not even a question.

 

Yes an all pro who won't lead us to the promise land. I would gladly trade him if it meant getting an all star QB and yes this includes trading up in the draft too.

Just now, Chloe6124 said:

It’s going to be a long off season if we don’t get Stafford. At that point we may have to trade all the way up to get a draft pick.

 

JMV said the only guy he has heard the colts liked was Fields.

[GoColts8818]

3 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

Yes an all pro who won't lead us to the promise land. I would gladly trade him if it meant getting an all star QB and yes this includes trading up in the draft too.

And a franchise QB isn’t going to lead them there if he doesn’t have a defense.  Don’t believe me?  Ask Peyton Manning who won both of his Super Bowls thanks in large part to his defense.  If you want to trade for a QB that’s fine but you don’t give up one of the five best players on the roster to do it.  

[w87r]

Just now, danlhart87 said:

Yes an all pro who won't lead us to the promise land. I would gladly trade him if it meant getting an all star QB and yes this includes trading up in the draft too.

If you say so.

 

Can't preach build from within and then ship out your teams heart and soul and leader. Good way to kill the culture of the team. Second you start doing that, everything goes south. Ballards words become hollow and he loses trust of players.

 

Now that truly wont lead you to the promise land.

 

Leonard is here for the long haul, should probably get used to it. 

[GoColts8818]

Just now, w87r said:

If you say so.

 

Can't preach build from within and then ship out your teams heart and soul and leader. Good way to kill the culture of the team. Second you start doing that, everything goes south. Ballards words become hollow and he loses trust of players.

 

Now that truly wont lead you to the promise land.

 

Leonard is here for the long haul, should probably get used to it. 

He’s been preaching letting Leonard leave since earlier this season.  It’s pretty clear he doesn’t value him the way most others do.  Thank goodness Ballard appears to value Leonard the way he should be.