Ride the Jonathan Taylor train!

[rockywoj]

After the game vs Cleveland, on NFL network, I believe it was Charley Casserly that was reciting how well Taylor is doing running the ball vs how poor the Colts running game is when Hines or anybody else is in there (Mack excepted), and his point was he simply does not understand what the heck the Colts are doing NOT sticking with Taylor and giving the budding star all the opportunities possible.

 

Today, again 5 ypc average, but on only 12 carries, plus 4 rec. for 55 yds.

 

I completely agree with Casserly.  I find it to be, well, just bad that Taylor is not being given a true number one workload. Keep him in, the threat of the run is always there, as is the possibility of getting him even more involved in the passing game, in space.  He is a big play home run hitter waiting to happen and offers much better big play potential than Hines. I think Taylor is being woefully under utilized and I don’t buy the excuses for doing so.  The Colts are much more dangerous with Taylor in, as compared to with Hines in.  If they’re so infatuated with Hines, use him more as a slot receiver. 

[w87r]

Agree, Taylor has proven to be good out of the backfield as well.

 

Only 1 target his way hasn't been caught, and it wasn't a drop.

 

Some coaching decisions/play calls have been mind boggling so far.

[Stephen]

4 minutes ago, w87r said:

Agree, Taylor has proven to be good out of the backfield as well.

 

Only 1 target his way hasn't been caught, and it wasn't a drop.

 

Some coaching decisions/play calls have been mind boggling so far.

They won't  give him the ball enough 

[danlhart87]

1 minute ago, Stephen said:

They won't  give him the ball enough 

They were playing catch up mostly today 

[GoColts8818]

Plus the run wasn’t effective today.  With that said another solid outing from Rivers against the Lions should back teams off the run game a little. 

[AKB]

Remember when we were down 21-0? 

 

If you had to count, on probably just one hand, how many teams run the ball down 21-0? 

 

And even if they are running, is it very often? I'd say just maybe that has something to do with it. Or maybe I am just on Mars somewhere sipping Bengal juice. 

[PrincetonTiger]

9 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

They were playing catch up mostly today 

 

11 minutes ago, Stephen said:

They won't  give him the ball enough 

 

Just now, GoColts8818 said:

Plus the run wasn’t effective today.  With that said another solid outing from Rivers against the Lions should back teams off the run game a little. 

Several times the run was replaced with Swing and Screen Passes and evening RPOs

 

     Taylor and the other RBs and Hybrids had multiple catches out of the backfield 

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, PrincetonTiger said:

 

 

Several times the run was replaced with Swing and Screen Passes and evening RPOs

 

     Taylor and the other RBs and Hybrids had multiple catches out of the backfield 

Yep they are still getting Taylor involved i just hope we get another good game from Rivers and we can get back to pounding the ball like they did last year.

[w87r]

1 minute ago, AustinnKaine said:

Remember when we were down 21-0? 

 

If you had to count, on probably just one hand, how many teams run the ball down 21-0? 

 

And even if they are running, is it very often? I'd say just maybe that has something to do with it. Or maybe I am just on Mars somewhere sipping Bengal juice. 

Definitely not many runs when down 21-0. 

 

It seems as Taylor is more explosive in the passing game as well though.

 

That coupled with the fact we started game with 2 passes(1 fumbled, I guess). Then once we had the lead and ball in their territory we had 5 straight passes(1 int).

 

 

Just think we would be less predictable with Taylor in there as the work horse.

[John Waylon]

The more he plays the better he gets and the more he taxes the opposing defense. We just don’t take advantage of that. He’s JAG in our offense. He isn’t as important to our offense as any of the top RBs in the league are to theirs. And that may be something that is actually holding us back. 
 

I absolutely abhor the way Reich uses our RBs. Terrible management. There’s no reason Taylor shouldn’t get 80+% of the carries on offense. None. Wilkins should only see the field once a game unless he’s in there WITH Taylor. Hines should get no more than 20% of the carries in a game. 

[AKB]

3 minutes ago, w87r said:

Definitely not many runs when down 21-0. 

 

It seems as Taylor is more explosive in the passing game as well though.

 

That coupled with the fact we started game with 2 passes(1 fumbled, I guess). Then once we had the lead and ball in their territory we had 5 straight passes(1 int).

 

 

Just think we would be less predictable with Taylor in there as the work horse.

I do want to see more screens to taylor rather than hines. 

Just now, AustinnKaine said:

I do want to see more screens to taylor rather than hines. 

I want hines used more on jet sweeps, bubble screens, crossers, quick outs. 

[John Waylon]

Taylor wasn’t known for catching passes out of the backfield in college. But he can do it. Really well. To the point he honestly makes Hines’ strength irrelevant. So far he’s shown he can catch and run with most anything thrown his way. And he may not be as fast as Hines, but he’s still a better runner than Hines. Hines probably has a better chance to catch passes longer than 10 yards, but how often is that a designed part of our offense? 
 

It just baffles me that they don’t try to capitalize on that and operate more of the offense through him. Whether it was intentional or not it happened for the Vikings game, and how well did it work out? 
 

Taylor would have been perfect in one of those old Manning offenses. 

[Mr.Debonair]

The possession before the Rivers pick, the run game was picking up steam. Moving it well. We scored the go ahead TD. Got a stop on defense and then Reich calls two straight passes. Reich is confusing 

[danlhart87]

 

[Zoltan]

My only guess, is that they are limiting his carries (because it seems he's always around 12) so he doesn't hit that rookie wall at the end of the season, just like how the Chiefs brought in Bell so there rookie doesn't get overused and hits the wall during december/playoffs. Otherwise I have no idea why

[holeymoley99]

Hines runs a 4.38 while taylor a 4.39 so almost identical both can fly (I Rodgers runs a 4.28 we saw on his k.o. return last week his jets). 

[Defjamz26]

I understand why you don’t run it when we were down 21-0, but they still seem reluctant to run. Like on that really bad punt that gave us excellent field position only down 3 at a point. Two straight passes, with one being the horrible INT that Rivers threw. You run the ball 1st and 2nd down there IMO.

 

They need to trust Taylor more. He’s averaging like 5 YPC while being given very little.

[GoColts8818]

44 minutes ago, Mr.Debonair said:

The possession before the Rivers pick, the run game was picking up steam. Moving it well. We scored the go ahead TD. Got a stop on defense and then Reich calls two straight passes. Reich is confusing 

Well they had two really good runs and then reich went to the well one too many times and it got stuffed for a loss.  That would have been the time for a play action shot.  Unfortunately the run game was not effective the rest of the game.

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 yards a carry, I will take that anyday. 

[Jason_]

they're probably also trying to keep him fresh for later in the season...not wanting him to hit the 'rookie wall'.

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, J@son said:

they're probably also trying to keep him fresh for later in the season...not wanting him to hit the 'rookie wall'.

Not to mention the miles Wisconsin put on him

[Jason_]

6 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Not to mention the miles Wisconsin put on him

 

plus, with the shortened and practically non-existent pre-season, these guys probably weren't in the shape they'd normally be in to start the season. 

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, J@son said:

 

plus, with the shortened and practically non-existent pre-season, these guys probably weren't in the shape they'd normally be in to start the season. 

Very true

[Shive]

To start, I'm definitely a fan of JT and think he's already a solid RB with potential to be a top RB.

 

You definitely see where his vision still comes an issue, which I think will just come with time and working with our OL a bit more. One thing I keep noticing is on the outside runs to the left where he gets to the secondary, he consistently runs into the back of the WR blocking for him near the left sideline (Pittman a few times and today I think it was Johnson). I'm not sure if he's just trying to maximize yardage with the S/LB's in pursuit, but running into the back of your blocker in the open field is something that shouldn't happen.

[Stephen]

1 hour ago, Shive said:

To start, I'm definitely a fan of JT and think he's already a solid RB with potential to be a top RB.

 

You definitely see where his vision still comes an issue, which I think will just come with time and working with our OL a bit more. One thing I keep noticing is on the outside runs to the left where he gets to the secondary, he consistently runs into the back of the WR blocking for him near the left sideline (Pittman a few times and today I think it was Johnson). I'm not sure if he's just trying to maximize yardage with the S/LB's in pursuit, but running into the back of your blocker in the open field is something that shouldn't happen.

Waiting  on taylor to have a Derrick henry  type game 

[rockywoj]

1 hour ago, J@son said:

they're probably also trying to keep him fresh for later in the season...not wanting him to hit the 'rookie wall'.

Like that rookie wall that AP hit?  Or so many other great RBs that went on to have stellar rookie years hit?  
 

I think such concerns are an illusion. When you have a stud, you work him!

 

For the record, the premise of this thread is not necessarily specific for not running more during today’s catch up, but rather, that in general, the Colts keep not using him as a primary feature back.  To me, you want to establish him as a weapon that opposing teams are stuck in trying to game plan for.  The great backs, teams fear them and have to account for them.  You WANT teams to be distracted in worrying about such bell cows. It opens up so much more for an offence. 

[CurBeatElite]

2 hours ago, rockywoj said:

After the game vs Cleveland, on NFL network, I believe it was Charley Casserly that was reciting how well Taylor is doing running the ball vs how poor the Colts running game is when Hines or anybody else is in there (Mack excepted), and his point was he simply does not understand what the heck the Colts are doing NOT sticking with Taylor and giving the budding star all the opportunities possible.

 

Today, again 5 ypc average, but on only 12 carries, plus 4 rec. for 55 yds.

 

I completely agree with Casserly.  I find it to be, well, just bad that Taylor is not being given a true number one workload. Keep him in, the threat of the run is always there, as is the possibility of getting him even more involved in the passing game, in space.  He is a big play home run hitter waiting to happen and offers much better big play potential than Hines. I think Taylor is being woefully under utilized and I don’t buy the excuses for doing so.  The Colts are much more dangerous with Taylor in, as compared to with Hines in.  If they’re so infatuated with Hines, use him more as a slot receiver. 

 

He averaged 5 YPC and almost 15 yards per catch today. He had >110 total yards from scrimmage.  We were down 21-0 to start the game.  Of course he isn't going to get a ton of carries at that point.  He had two very nice carries from shotgun formation when the D wasn't expecting the run.  I don't think he was under-utilized given the circumstances.. we did what we had to win.  If we were up 21-0 and he got 12 carries, that's a different story.

 

1 hour ago, GoColts8818 said:

Plus the run wasn’t effective today.  With that said another solid outing from Rivers against the Lions should back teams off the run game a little. 

 

The run game was effective today.  Very effective.  Hines didn't run once.  Wilkins had 1 carry.  Taylor had 5 yards per carry.  Burton's TD run was very nice play calling by Sirianni/Reich.  I honestly thought we were trying to draw an off-side penalty or were planning to call a time-out when Rivers went out wide.  

 

Simple fact, you start 21-0 and you're not going to be running very much.  When we decided to, they were effective.

 

1 hour ago, John Waylon said:

The more he plays the better he gets and the more he taxes the opposing defense. We just don’t take advantage of that. He’s JAG in our offense. He isn’t as important to our offense as any of the top RBs in the league are to theirs. And that may be something that is actually holding us back. 
 

I absolutely abhor the way Reich uses our RBs. Terrible management. There’s no reason Taylor shouldn’t get 80+% of the carries on offense. None. Wilkins should only see the field once a game unless he’s in there WITH Taylor. Hines should get no more than 20% of the carries in a game. 

 

I am actually more comfortable after today's game how Reich is using the run and setting up motion with WR and running.  Give Reich credit -- Mack wasn't expected to go down so early in the season, nor was Pittman, Campbell or several of our TEs (Burton and Doyle looked good today other than Doyle's fumble and MAC looked good in their absence).   

 

The play call to have Burton run the TD in was brilliant.  Hines didn't have a carry and Wilkins only had one (Wilkins has a good YPC over the season).

 

52 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

I understand why you don’t run it when we were down 21-0, but they still seem reluctant to run. Like on that really bad punt that gave us excellent field position only down 3 at a point. Two straight passes, with one being the horrible INT that Rivers threw. You run the ball 1st and 2nd down there IMO.

 

They need to trust Taylor more. He’s averaging like 5 YPC while being given very little.

 

Wasn't a 'horrible INT', the safety made a great play.  Taylor was averaging under 4 YPC before the past two games.  He wasn't supposed to be our  RB 1, nor was he expected to get much more than 10 carries per game.   

 

We're doing just fine, we're 4-2 and very much in the playoff hunt.  Let's take a deep breath and be thankful we're doing as well as we are given all the injuries and obstacles we've faced. 

[Thunderbolt]

10-12 carries don't cut it with Taylor, need to give him the ball more so he can warm up and establish some consistency......Play calling doesn't favor JT under Reich.

[GoColts8818]

6 minutes ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

He averaged 5 YPC and almost 15 yards per catch today. He had >110 total yards from scrimmage.  We were down 21-0 to start the game.  Of course he isn't going to get a ton of carries at that point.  He had two very nice carries from shotgun formation when the D wasn't expecting the run.  I don't think he was under-utilized given the circumstances.. we did what we had to win.  If we were up 21-0 and he got 12 carries, that's a different story.

 

 

The run game was effective today.  Very effective.  Hines didn't run once.  Wilkins had 1 carry.  Taylor had 5 yards per carry.  Burton's TD run was very nice play calling by Sirianni/Reich.  I honestly thought we were trying to draw an off-side penalty or were planning to call a time-out when Rivers went out wide.  

 

Simple fact, you start 21-0 and you're not going to be running very much.  When we decided to, they were effective.

 

 

I am actually more comfortable after today's game how Reich is using the run and setting up motion with WR and running.  Give Reich credit -- Mack wasn't expected to go down so early in the season, nor was Pittman, Campbell or several of our TEs (Burton and Doyle looked good today other than Doyle's fumble and MAC looked good in their absence).   

 

The play call to have Burton run the TD in was brilliant.  Hines didn't have a carry and Wilkins only had one (Wilkins has a good YPC over the season).

 

 

Wasn't a 'horrible INT', the safety made a great play.  Taylor was averaging under 4 YPC before the past two games.  He wasn't supposed to be our  RB 1, nor was he expected to get much more than 10 carries per game.   

 

We're doing just fine, we're 4-2 and very much in the playoff hunt.  Let's take a deep breath and be thankful we're doing as well as we are given all the injuries and obstacles we've faced. 

Sorry but it’s wasn’t.  38 of Taylor’s 60 yards came on two carries and heavily skewed his average.  Take those two runs out and his average drops to 1.57 ypc.  Those two runs were exceptions to how it went the rest of the day.

 

the TD run with Burton was a nice trick play but I am not factoring that in as a sign the run game as a whole is work mist like I wouldn’t hold it against the run game had it not worked.  It’s a gimmick play in its own category.

[CurBeatElite]

1 minute ago, GoColts8818 said:

Sorry but it’s wasn’t.  38 of Taylor’s 60 yards came on two carries and heavily skewed his average.  Take those two runs out and his average drops to 1.57 ypc.  Those two runs were exceptions to how it went the rest of the day.

 

the TD run with Burton was a nice trick play but I am not factoring that in as a sign the run game as a whole is work mist like I wouldn’t hold it against the run game had it not worked.  It’s a gimmick play in its own category.

 

That's fine.. we won the game... if you're the coach and we're down 21-0 are you going to try to run every play or are you going to pass?  If you choose the former, I don't want  you as my coach.

[PrincetonTiger]

2 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Sorry but it’s wasn’t.  38 of Taylor’s 60 yards came on two carries and heavily skewed his average.  Take those two runs out and his average drops to 1.57 ypc.  Those two runs were exceptions to how it went the rest of the day.

 

the TD run with Burton was a nice trick play but I am not factoring that in as a sign the run game as a whole is work mist like I wouldn’t hold it against the run game had it not worked.  It’s a gimmick play in its own category.

In this O you must figure in the swing and screen passes

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, CurBeatElite said:

 

That's fine.. we won the game... if you're the coach and we're down 21-0 are you going to try to run every play or are you going to pass?  If you choose the former, I don't want  you as my coach.

In the O I grew up and coached in you ran the O almost all the time

[CurBeatElite]

Just now, PrincetonTiger said:

In the O I grew up and coached in you ran the O almost all the time

Was that a HS or Ivy League team you grew up in or coached? 

 

In the NFL, you don't run very much when you're down 21-0.

[PrincetonTiger]

20 minutes ago, CurBeatElite said:

Was that a HS or Ivy League team you grew up in or coached? 

 

In the NFL, you don't run very much when you're down 21-0.

   My HS had the same coach from the time I was a 2nd Grader until I was in college and his Wing T was taught and/or run starting in 7th grade

 I agree 100% and have said so multiple times

[CurBeatElite]

6 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

   My HS has the same coach from the time I was a 2nd Grader until I was in college and his Wing T was taught and/or run starting in 7th grade

 I agree 100% and have said so multiple times

Makes sense!  (Grammar-wise, did you go to Princeton?) 

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, CurBeatElite said:

Makes sense!  (Grammar-wise, did you go to Princeton?) 

I was/am a Princeton Community Tiger here in the Pocket(SW Indiana)

[GoColts8818]

30 minutes ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

That's fine.. we won the game... if you're the coach and we're down 21-0 are you going to try to run every play or are you going to pass?  If you choose the former, I don't want  you as my coach.

I am not arguing they should have run more.  I just said the run was relatively ineffective when they tried to run which it was.

[GoColts8818]

30 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

In this O you must figure in the swing and screen passes

And those are pass plays.  Yes I know people call them extensions of the run game but they are passes.  I have zero issues with them being called and like them even more when they are effective like they were today but the Colts run game was pretty much nonexistent today outside of two carries because the Bengals owned the line of scrimmage.  I think swing passes and screen passes are great ways to keep your backs involved when you can’t run the ball and it’s a great way to use them as weapons but simply put handing the ball off wasn’t working today.  It happens.  The Bengals have a good front four now that they are healthy and the score didn’t really let you try to establish the run.  It was used as more keep them honest today which again is fine.

[CurBeatElite]

7 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I am not arguing they should have run more.  I just said the run was relatively ineffective when they tried to run which it was.

Two of our most effective plays were Taylor's run out of the shot-gun today.. it was effective when it needed to be.

[GoColts8818]

9 minutes ago, CurBeatElite said:

Two of our most effective plays were Taylor's run out of the shot-gun today.. it was effective when it needed to be.

It was effective for two plays and that’s it.  That’s not an effective day.  That’s two good plays.  Curtis Painter could have two effective plays in a game would you have called him an effective QB?