Reichs quote on Jacoby and his leadership

[EastStreet]

3 hours ago, csmopar said:

To be fair, Brissett was tied for number 2 in the league with passing TDs before getting hurt... 1 behind the leader 

 

That was an awesome stat on it's own. Jameis Winston was up there too.

7 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 Pat Kirwan (ex scout, coach, and team front office executive) says a minimum 30 games as the starter (again, consecutively and hopefully same system) before the picture of what you likely have at QB (not referring to just JB either) becomes clearer.

 

In addition, on their NFL Radio show "Moving the Chains", Pat Kirwan has already changed his opinion on JB7 during the course of this year from being a backup QB thrust into a role into a real bonafide starting NFL QB that is still improving. Jim Miller was already on board early this season.

 

I mentioned Kirwan was just as prone to hot takes as others last night. So he said you need you need at least 30 games consecutively before you have an accurate picture, but has already crowned JB a bonafide starter after only 7 consecutive games. And only 3 of the seven have QBRs above 50, and none above 80 (which is the lowest average of the 13th QBR ranked QB). I'd love to understand his definition of bonafide.

[SteelCityColt]

11 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

That was an awesome stat on it's own. Jameis Winston was up there too.

 

I mentioned Kirwan was just as prone to hot takes as others last night. So he said you need you need at least 30 games consecutively before you have an accurate picture, but has already crowned JB a bonafide starter after only 7 consecutive games. And only 3 of the seven have QBRs above 50, and none above 80 (which is the lowest average of the 13th QBR ranked QB). I'd love to understand his definition of bonafide.

 

I will say, and I'm sure I've said it before, I have a lot of respect for Kirwan's opinion. I agree it depends what you mean by "bonafide", because I don't think there's anyone arguing that Brissett isn't a viable starter. 

 

I don't think you'll ever get agreement on the no. games to make a definitive assessment, and tbh assessment should always be ongoing. Obviously as the tenured QB you get a lot more rope. What gets me is the people saying that JB has only X amount of games in the league" (ignoring the additional years of being in an NFL film room) but are willing to completely write off other QBs (Mayfield for one) who have less starts. It's hypocrisy at its best. 

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

13 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

I will say, and I'm sure I've said it before, I have a lot of respect for Kirwan's opinion. I agree it depends what you mean by "bonafide", because I don't think there's anyone arguing that Brissett isn't a viable starter. 

 

I don't think you'll ever get agreement on the no. games to make a definitive assessment, and tbh assessment should always be ongoing. Obviously as the tenured QB you get a lot more rope. What gets me is the people saying that JB has only X amount of games in the league" (ignoring the additional years of being in an NFL film room) but are willing to completely write off other QBs (Mayfield for one) who have less starts. It's hypocrisy at its best. 

 

 

Mayfield to me is more about maturity then his abilities. It’s his emotional makeup. I was impressed how he handled the incident this weekend. For me I think he has the tools. He needs to mature. I just don’t know if he can change his personality.  I question if he can be a leader not his playing on the field.

[ColtsBlueFL]

10 hours ago, EastStreet said:

How did luck do coming back from a year off due to injury, in a brand new offense and OC year one? JB did have the benefit of being there in the same scheme and OC for a full year, so it was not like everything changed for him like it did for Luck.

 

Luck through 7 games-

 

 

Brissett after 7 games-

 

 

That's all we can compare right now.

 

Quote

We are comparing regression of supporting cast between two QBs with much of the same supporting cast.  I don't care much for the TB/JB comparison, but a little tired of hearing how slow TB was in his learning curve. He wasn't. He made mistakes, but he ramped up much better than folks are painting.

 

He ramped up fairly well, but Charlie Weis paints a different picture than you.  He admits to scheming a more dink and dunk offense as complimentary football  for a team that stressed defense in those early years\ as TB12 developed. Charlie Weis is also on NFL radio "Opening Drive" show most every morning.

 

Quote

Both BB and BP were D guys. Look at both their complete histories with QBs and then give me your thoughts.

 

 

BP- You mean QB's like Phil Simms, Jeff Hostetler, Drew Bledsoe, Vinny Testaverde, Tony Romo... all great choices and made declining teams winners.

 

BB- Vinny Testaverde, Drew Bledsoe, Tom Brady... like a Parcells understudy!

 

Yes, both coaches made their teams winners with these guys.  Parcells also has intangible rules for QB drafting (which is stiff to me, but shown to have merit) a QB -

 

The Bill Parcells’ seven rules for drafting a quarterback are

1. Be a three-year starter

2. Be a senior in college

3. Graduate from college

4. Start 30 games

5. Win 23 games

6. Post a 2-1 touchdown-to-interception ratio

7. Tally a completion rate of 60 percent or higher.

 

Quote

CW is the only O guy, and his history of teacher and coordinator is much better than his history of talent judge. Look at his recruiting history and development in college (the whole history).

 

Here's a copy of a reply I posted on the whole BB and BP debate.... Feel free to disagree, but it's pretty obvious most of the 3s reputation surrounding QBs is primarily because of Brady.

 

https://nypost.com/2019/09/08/why-jacoby-brissett-has-a-big-backer-in-bill-parcells/

 

I love BP. Old school dude. Keep in mind he was a "defensive" coach. Do you remember the Bruner/Simms fiasco when he was in NY (not sure how old you are). Even BP admits he made the wrong QB decisions. At NE, he drafted Drew B with the first pick his first year, and then he bolted for NYJ after a few years. He didn't last long there either. When he was at Dallas, they were all over the place with QB.

 

Yes-https://www.nytimes.com/1983/09/05/sports/absolution-for-brunner.html

 

No coach is 100% flawless, but his reasons were in this archived story. And early in his career. Coaches improve too.

 

Quote

I give him props for the two SBs in NYG, but he's also had some bad years and a lot of first round and WC losses. I don't think of him as a QB genius at all. It's pretty clear BP is more sold on JB's character than talent. And that's fine too. But his endorsement doesn't weigh heavily from a talent perspective given the entire context. 

 

Teams have a whole slew of scouts for talent assessment, they don't have to go it alone.  There are so many coaches that haven't even sniffed a Super Bowl.

 

And I take Parcells, Weis, and Belichick's  (and other NFL credentialed input) endorsement of a QB than those of team fans... any day and twice on Sunday.  They were paid to do it, and their job in jeopardy at any time.

 

Quote

As far as Belichick is concerned, he's a genius on many things. And he's also a D guy. Aside from Brady, what is his track record for QBs? His HC gig with the Browns was a real mixed bag. At NE, since Brady, he's drafted 10 QBs. The majority of them never amounted to anything. Did they have the "it" factor too? Aside from Cassell (who had more downs than ups) and Jimmy G, the rest were bombs. 

 

And spot starter backups just in case, Brady's job was never in danger.

 

Quote

And JB was third on their depth chart, and IIRC they were shopping JB after the deflate gate and injury time was done. Not saying BB isn't a genius, or a great at evaluating .........  but the other 8 QBs did nothing, and what does that say about him? Love to hear the explanation.

 

 

Kirwan is OK, but he's also a guy with a D background, and just a talking head. He's had plenty of bad hot takes like the rest. I'd bet he made that comment after one of JB's better games like Houston. Can you link the interview when you have a moment.

 

Kirwan / Miller's  show can be heard only on Sirius XM NFL radio.  Using the sirusxm on demand app for the shows 'Moving the Chains'.  It's a daily show during the week and Saturday, usually lasting 3 hours.

 

And Kirwan did become a believer he was starter material around the Texan game, and hasn't reverted from it, and likely won't. He's not that type.

 

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

I will say, and I'm sure I've said it before, I have a lot of respect for Kirwan's opinion. I agree it depends what you mean by "bonafide", because I don't think there's anyone arguing that Brissett isn't a viable starter. 

 

I don't think you'll ever get agreement on the no. games to make a definitive assessment, and tbh assessment should always be ongoing. Obviously as the tenured QB you get a lot more rope. What gets me is the people saying that JB has only X amount of games in the league" (ignoring the additional years of being in an NFL film room) but are willing to completely write off other QBs (Mayfield for one) who have less starts. It's hypocrisy at its best. 

 

I like a lot of what Kirwan says. I do think he's got his ups and downs like most media guys. He had some really bad takes on Indy in the later Manning years, and early Luck years. I recall several that stuck in my gut, especially a few bad ones on Freeney. I don't listen to him near as much since I got rid of my X5 (sat radio) so not sure what his latest trends are. 

 

I do like when he's stats/measurements oriented like some of his combine/draft analysis. While I may not always agree, I like that he explains his rational. He does have a tendency to contradict himself like I pointed out with games needed for a QB. I like his assessments on D a lot better than on O (except for Freeney lol).

 

And yes, JB is a viable starter. He's a top 32 QB no doubt. My issue is simply the level of play required to be a sustained SB or AFC Championship contender. We all know a QB outside of the top 10 can make it to the SB with a great D and great supporting cast. We also know it's much rarer though than a team with a top 10 QB. I simply don't want to rely on planets to align perfectly every 10-20 years. It's hard enough already with a top 10 QB.

 

The bolded irritates the hell out of me too.

[SteelCityColt]

@ColtsBlueFL & @EastStreet, I don't really have anything to add to your back and forth, but just to say I'm enjoying the appreciating the amount of thought and depth that's going into it. Good reading guys 

[Stephen]

19 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

glad the coaching staff knows he sucks at going through his progressions maybe they can get that fixed by the end of the year 

It's  more the guys you think are open really  aren't  as we found out when hoyer used his supposed superior anticipation  and reads to throw  game costing interceptions.

[ColtsBlueFL]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

 

That was an awesome stat on it's own. Jameis Winston was up there too.

 

Jameis was a #1 overall draft pick! When 'good Jameis' is on... lookout!  But 'bad Jameis' is a turnover machine the likes JB7 will never be able to touch.

 

Quote

I mentioned Kirwan was just as prone to hot takes as others last night. So he said you need you need at least 30 games consecutively before you have an accurate picture, but has already crowned JB a bonafide starter after only 7 consecutive games. And only 3 of the seven have QBRs above 50, and none above 80 (which is the lowest average of the 13th QBR ranked QB). I'd love to understand his definition of bonafide.

 

Kirwan these days backs his opinions with inside knowledge/experience and accrued data. No emotional attachments evident.

 

1 hour ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

I will say, and I'm sure I've said it before, I have a lot of respect for Kirwan's opinion. I agree it depends what you mean by "bonafide", because I don't think there's anyone arguing that Brissett isn't a viable starter. 

 

I can't remember the exact word when he admitted to Jim Miller he was now on board with JB7.  It might have been 'true' or something similar.  But it implies a QB that is not backup or journeyman quality,  and can be a winner in the league.  He feels some  teams QB's aren't there, and then there are the developing, inconsistent rooks.

 

Quote

I don't think you'll ever get agreement on the no. games to make a definitive assessment, and tbh assessment should always be ongoing. Obviously as the tenured QB you get a lot more rope.

 

True.  But I also remember a Numbers Don't Lie video from 2014 (main character, Andrew Luck) and the y show this stat increase for year 3 (just over 30 starts) of many drafted QB's-

 

 

For those that want the whole clip-

 

Quote

What gets me is the people saying that JB has only X amount of games in the league"

 

evidence shows it is a factor though

 

Quote

(ignoring the additional years of being in an NFL film room)

 

Helpful, but not a substitute for #1 reps and taking snaps in games.

 

Quote

but are willing to completely write off other QBs (Mayfield for one) who have less starts. It's hypocrisy at its best.

 

Exactly.  All QB's, especially the rookies that are in the <30 game/4 year window. Agreed.

 

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

 

I like a lot of what Kirwan says. I do think he's got his ups and downs like most media guys.

 

He's better and much more analytical the 'media guys'. Plus he relates real experiences he encountered.  Being a long tenured Scout, Coach, and Front Office executive, that counts for a lot.

 

Quote

He had some really bad takes on Indy in the later Manning years, and early Luck years. I recall several that stuck in my gut, especially a few bad ones on Freeney. I don't listen to him near as much since I got rid of my X5 (sat radio) so not sure what his latest trends are. 

 

Maybe he was still learning his radio craft back then, but now days he is no nonsense and doesn't do 'hot takes' to get listeners.  Coaches enjoy calling in to his show and admit it on air (even BB!)  Some recent regulars-  Pete Carroll, Bill O'Brien, Dan Quinn, Ron Rivera, etc...

 

Quote

I do like when he's stats/measurements oriented like some of his combine/draft analysis. While I may not always agree, I like that he explains his rational. He does have a tendency to contradict himself like I pointed out with games needed for a QB. I like his assessments on D a lot better than on O (except for Freeney lol).

 

He was a scout, not just for defense...  He also did contracts for teams with players agents.  You have to know production/value of every position to do those properly.

 

Quote

And yes, JB is a viable starter. He's a top 32 QB no doubt.

 

Many don't feel a few of the other 31 QB's are 'starter quality'.

 

Quote

My issue is simply the level of play required to be a sustained SB or AFC Championship contender. We all know a QB outside of the top 10 can make it to the SB with a great D and great supporting cast. We also know it's much rarer though than a team with a top 10 QB. I simply don't want to rely on planets to align perfectly every 10-20 years. It's hard enough already with a top 10 QB.

 

I'm sure the criteria for Kirwan is showing the ability to lead a team into the playoffs.  Once in, it's a new season, but against the best teams and often in nasty weather. Full complimentary football is needed, and rushing and D travel well in DEC/JAN.  Great QB is fantastic, but not if he has to throw 50+ times with the opponent expecting it in 25+ swirling winds and heavy snow falling being down 2or more scores.

 

Quote

The bolded irritates the hell out of me too.

 

Agreed, as I mentioned to SCC.

[SteelCityColt]

19 minutes ago, Stephen said:

It's  more the guys you think are open really  aren't  as we found out when hoyer used his supposed superior anticipation  and reads to throw  game costing interceptions.

 

I mean when his own coach says he needs to work on getting past his 1st/2nd read...

 

Besides would you really put any of Hoyer's picks on the WRs "not being open". That trope has been debunked on here already. 

[EastStreet]

11 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Luck through 7 games-

 

 

Brissett after 7 games-

 

 

That's all we can compare right now.

I'd say the following

1) compare the QBRs in Luck's first 7 games. He only had one sub 50 game, eclipsed 80, and overall much better, and much better in a true year one..

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/14874/type/nfl/year/2012

2) Luck started from day one. No mentoring from Brady/Belichick, no sitting behind the starter, no experience at all in the O scheme.

 

11 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

He ramped up fairly well, but Charlie Weis paints a different picture than you.  He admits to scheming a more dink and dunk offense as complimentary football  for a team that stressed defense in those early years\ as TB12 developed. Charlie Weis is also on NFL radio "Opening Drive" show most every morning.

CW is an egotistical wind bag. I'm very aware of his entire career. Looking at his entire career with context, I think he's primarily a product of BP and BB. 

But I do agree a new QB should always be brought on gradually with dink and dunk. It led to a league high TD production in his second year starting, so it wasn't all that slow.

 

11 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

BP- You mean QB's like Phil Simms, Jeff Hostetler, Drew Bledsoe, Vinny Testaverde, Tony Romo... all great choices and made declining teams winners.

Simms - 7th overall pick. Horrible TD/INT ratio. Ups and downs. Was paired with great Ds. Also, BP passed on Joe Montanna LOL that year... 

Hostetler - only one ten win season in all his years, and it wasn't with BP

Bledsoe - 1st overall pick.

Testaverde - 1st overall pick

Romo - This is a good pull, but it was actually Sean Payton that wanted him and developed him.

 

Not really going to give mad props to any coach for developing a QB picked in the top 10. 

 

 

11 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

BB- Vinny Testaverde, Drew Bledsoe, Tom Brady... like a Parcells understudy!

So you're double dipping on the same QBs lol. What about the numerous QBs outside of those and Brady. 

 

11 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Yes, both coaches made their teams winners with these guys.  Parcells also has intangible rules for QB drafting (which is stiff to me, but shown to have merit) a QB -

 

The Bill Parcells’ seven rules for drafting a quarterback are

1. Be a three-year starter (JB flunked this)

2. Be a senior in college

3. Graduate from college

4. Start 30 games (JB flunked this)

5. Win 23 games (JB flunked this)

6. Post a 2-1 touchdown-to-interception ratio (Simms flunked)

7. Tally a completion rate of 60 percent or higher. (Simms and JB flunked)

Bill's rule was typically to draft high. And by his own rules, he would not have drafted JB. And Simms who he did draft. 

 

11 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Yes-https://www.nytimes.com/1983/09/05/sports/absolution-for-brunner.html

 

No coach is 1005 flawless, but his reasons were in this archived story.

No, no coach is flawless. Still ugly situation.

 

11 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Teams have a whole slew of scouts for talent assessment, they don't have to go it alone.  There are so many coaches that haven't even sniffed a Super Bowl.

BP and BB have been consistently good with Ds, and are both D minded with D backgrounds.

Is that the formula?

11 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

And I take Parcells, Weis, and Belichick's  (and other NFL credentialed input) endorsement of a QB than those of team fans... any day and twice on Sunday.  They were paid to do it, and their job in jeopardy at any time.

I see Parcells's opinion on JB bias. He's a personal friend going back to HS, and JB flunks his own test criteria for drafting. BB had JB 3rd string, and kept JG over JB. JG is doing well, but BB drafting JB doesn't have any special meaning. BB has drafted 11 QBs at NE, and most have gone on to do nothing. You know my feelings about CW, especially in college where his track record was pretty awful.

 

11 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Kirwan / Miller's  show can be heard only on Sirius XM NFL radio.  Using the sirusxm on demand app for the shows 'Moving the Chains'.  It's a daily show during the week and Saturday, usually lasting 3 hours.

 

And Kirwan did become a believer after the Texan game, and hasn't reverted from it, and likely won't. He's not that type.

What happened to 30 consecutive games to get the whole picture? Is 6 the new number? 

[CanuckColtsFan]

9 hours ago, ojsglove said:

 

 

Can you please explain who you consider a low rent poster?  Thank you

People with less than 100 posts going in every thread possible screaming either Reich, Ballard, JB SUCKs.

 

I dont find it entertaining,  or enriching in any manner. Discussion is one thing. Criticism is one thing. It's pretty clear that none of the aforementioned people suck they are pretty successful and generally do their job. Do they make mistakes, sure and we can talk about that in a manner above the level of 5 graders.

[EastStreet]

1 hour ago, SteelCityColt said:

@ColtsBlueFL & @EastStreet, I don't really have anything to add to your back and forth, but just to say I'm enjoying the appreciating the amount of thought and depth that's going into it. Good reading guys 

Thanks SCC. I love @ColtsBlueFL posts and thoughtfulness. Don't always agree, but respect the heck out of him. 

[Colts_Fan12]

42 minutes ago, Stephen said:

It's  more the guys you think are open really  aren't  as we found out when hoyer used his supposed superior anticipation  and reads to throw  game costing interceptions.

except there was photographic evidence that players were open that JB has missed 

[EastStreet]

25 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Jameis was a #1 overall draft pick! When 'good Jameis' is on... lookout!  But 'bad Jameis' is a turnover machine the likes JB7 will never be able to touch.

I hope you know I was being sarcastic :-). IMO, both QBs have major holes.

 

25 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Kirwan these days backs his opinions with inside knowledge/experience and accrued data. No emotional attachments evident.

I'll give him another shot. I did really like several elements of his stuff, I was just really turned off by a few things I didn't like.

 

25 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

I can't remember the exact word when he admitted to Jim Miller he was now on board with JB7.  It might have been 'true' or something similar.  But it implies a QB that is not backup or journeyman quality,  and can be a winner in the league.  He feels some  teams QB's aren't there, and then there are the developing, inconsistent rooks.

While I think every QB has a different path, I'm simply not sold on JB yet, and not sure how Kirwan can give JB the stamp of approval after only 6 games, which goes against his own rules. Given the QBRs and inconsistent performance in those games, just can't buy it.

 

25 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Helpful, but not a substitute for #1 reps and taking snaps in games.

It's a clear advantage over rooks though.

 

25 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

He's better and much more analytical the 'media guys'. Plus he relates real experiences he encountered.  Being a long tenured Scout, Coach, and Front Office executive, that counts for a lot.

Agreed. Like I said to SCC, liked his detailed analysis on the combine/draft, especially on D. 

 

25 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Maybe he was still learning his radio craft back then, but now days he is no nonsense and doesn't do 'hot takes' to get listeners.  Coaches enjoy calling in to his show and admit it on air (even BB!)  Some recent regulars-  Pete Carroll, Bill O'Brien, Dan Quinn, Ron Rivera, etc...

I think the "JB is bonafide" is a bit of a hot take at this point. If he surrounded it with stats/analysis, then I'd love to hear it. 

 

25 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

He was a scout, not just for defense...  He also did contracts for teams with players agents.  You have to know production/value of every position to do those properly.

Yup, I'm aware.

 

25 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Many don't feel a few of the other 31 QB's are 'starter quality'.

That's a very subjective topic. From a "pure" perspective, there are 32 teams, and if a QB is the starter, then the market would say he's starter quality. He may be "bad", but still a starter. If we look at "pure" stats, JB is below the mid point (average) in most stats. So "below average starter"???

 

25 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

I'm sure the criteria for Kirwan is showing the ability to lead a team into the playoffs.  Once in, it's a new season, but against the best teams and often in nasty weather. Full complimentary football is needed, and rushing and D travel well in DEC/JAN.  Great QB is fantastic, but not if he has to throw 50+ times with the opponent expecting it in 25+ swirling winds and heavy snow falling being down 2or more scores.

I don't want to have to throw it 50 times to win. But I want to be able to throw it 50 times if I need to, to win. Right now our passing game is clearly the lowest rated unit of the 4 (rushing O 10th / passing O 25th / rushing D 15th / passing D 10th).

 

It just doesn't compute to me to ignore the worst performing unit, and instead, upgrade the rest that are already above average. And I'm just not sure the elements that JB struggles with, are things that will improve to the level needed. I stand by my previous opinion on natural vs learned skill, and the ability to improve in certain areas.

[ColtsBlueFL]

24 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I'd say the following

1) compare the QBRs in Luck's first 7 games. He only had one sub 50 game, eclipsed 80, and overall much better, and much better in a true year one..

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/14874/type/nfl/year/2012

2) Luck started from day one. No mentoring from Brady/Belichick, no sitting behind the starter, no experience at all in the O scheme.

 

CW is an egotistical wind bag. I'm very aware of his entire career. Looking at his entire career with context, I think he's primarily a product of BP and BB. 

But I do agree a new QB should always be brought on gradually with dink and dunk. It led to a league high TD production in his second year starting, so it wasn't all that slow.

 

Simms - 7th overall pick. Horrible TD/INT ratio. Ups and downs. Was paired with great Ds. Also, BP passed on Joe Montanna LOL that year... 

Hostetler - only one ten win season in all his years, and it wasn't with BP

Bledsoe - 1st overall pick.

Testaverde - 1st overall pick

Romo - This is a good pull, but it was actually Sean Payton that wanted him and developed him.

 

Not really going to give mad props to any coach for developing a QB picked in the top 10. 

 

 

So you're double dipping on the same QBs lol. What about the numerous QBs outside of those and Brady. 

 

Bill's rule was typically to draft high. And by his own rules, he would not have drafted JB. And Simms who he did draft. 

 

No, no coach is flawless. Still ugly situation.

 

BP and BB have been consistently good with Ds, and are both D minded with D backgrounds.

Is that the formula?

 

How many Rings does BP, BB, and CW have?  Brady is declining, does BB have a chance at another ring?  (TBH, I've been a supporter of the Erhardt-Perkins O system for years too, and if my QB is labeled a system QB for running it well, so be it. Looking at you Matt Cassell, in NE, and Kansas City with CW)

 

24 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I see Parcells's opinion on JB bias. He's a personal friend going back to HS, and JB flunks his own test criteria for drafting. BB had JB 3rd string, and kept JG over JB. JG is doing well, but BB drafting JB doesn't have any special meaning. BB has drafted 11 QBs at NE, and most have gone on to do nothing. You know my feelings about CW, especially in college where his track record was pretty awful.

 

CW was aweful at HC, very good O coordinator.  To me, the Wade Phillips of offense.  BP rules are to see how many boxes get checked.  Here's a results check from 3 years ago-

 

Quarterbacks who hit all four pieces of criteria (7/14)

Peyton Manning

Drew Brees

Tony Romo

Russell Wilson

Philip Rivers

Eli Manning

Carson Palmer

 

Quarterbacks who hit three of the four pieces of criteria (2/14)

Andrew Luck

Matt Ryan

 

Quarterbacks who hit two of the four pieces of criteria (4/14)

Tom Brady

Joe Flacco

Aaron Rodgers

Ben Roethlisberger

 

Quarterback who hit one of the four pieces of criteria (1/4)

Cam Newton

 

What were the 4 pieces used-

1. He must be a senior, because you need time and maturity to develop into a good professional quarterback.

2. He must be a graduate, because you want someone who takes his responsibilities seriously.

3. He must be a three-year starter, because you need to make sure his success wasn’t ephemeral and that he has lived as "the guy" for some period of time.

4. He must have at least 23 wins, because the big passing numbers must come in the context of winning games.

 

24 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

What happened to 30 consecutive games to get the whole picture? Is 6 the new number? 

 

He became convinced before the mark, much like Luck convinced most all folks well before as well.  That is one upper level mark to assess what you have, and where to go from there.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

9 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I hope you know I was being sarcastic :-). IMO, both QBs have major holes.

 

I'll give him another shot. I did really like several elements of his stuff, I was just really turned off by a few things I didn't like.

 

While I think every QB has a different path, I'm simply not sold on JB yet, and not sure how Kirwan can give JB the stamp of approval after only 6 games, which goes against his own rules. Given the QBRs and inconsistent performance in those games, just can't buy it.

 

It's a clear advantage over rooks though.

 

Agreed. Like I said to SCC, liked his detailed analysis on the combine/draft, especially on D. 

 

I think the "JB is bonafide" is a bit of a hot take at this point. If he surrounded it with stats/analysis, then I'd love to hear it. 

 

Yup, I'm aware.

 

That's a very subjective topic. From a "pure" perspective, there are 32 teams, and if a QB is the starter, then the market would say he's starter quality. He may be "bad", but still a starter. If we look at "pure" stats, JB is below the mid point (average) in most stats. So "below average starter"???

 

I don't want to have to throw it 50 times to win. But I want to be able to throw it 50 times if I need to, to win. Right now our passing game is clearly the lowest rated unit of the 4 (rushing O 10th / passing O 25th / rushing D 15th / passing D 10th).

 

It just doesn't compute to me to ignore the worst performing unit, and instead, upgrade the rest that are already above average. And I'm just not sure the elements that JB struggles with, are things that will improve to the level needed. I stand by my previous opinion on natural vs learned skill, and the ability to improve in certain areas.

Let’s just say you upgrade to give him better weapons and it doesn’t help or work out. The worst case scenario is you have upgraded the team and give a new QB a better chance at winning. Look at all the weapons Mahomes had in his first year starting. That enabled him to have a great season instead of no weapons and struggle. The best case is you upgrade and he gets better and he is your guy. The worst case is the new weapons don’t work and you bring in a new QB with great weapons. Build the best team around him and see what you have. If it doesn’t work you have a great team for a new QB.

[ColtsBlueFL]

17 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I hope you know I was being sarcastic :-). IMO, both QBs have major holes.

 

I'll give him another shot. I did really like several elements of his stuff, I was just really turned off by a few things I didn't like.

 

While I think every QB has a different path, I'm simply not sold on JB yet, and not sure how Kirwan can give JB the stamp of approval after only 6 games, which goes against his own rules. Given the QBRs and inconsistent performance in those games, just can't buy it.

 

It's a clear advantage over rooks though.

 

Agreed. Like I said to SCC, liked his detailed analysis on the combine/draft, especially on D. 

 

I think the "JB is bonafide" is a bit of a hot take at this point. If he surrounded it with stats/analysis, then I'd love to hear it. 

 

Yup, I'm aware.

 

That's a very subjective topic. From a "pure" perspective, there are 32 teams, and if a QB is the starter, then the market would say he's starter quality. He may be "bad", but still a starter. If we look at "pure" stats, JB is below the mid point (average) in most stats. So "below average starter"???

 

I don't want to have to throw it 50 times to win. But I want to be able to throw it 50 times if I need to, to win. Right now our passing game is clearly the lowest rated unit of the 4 (rushing O 10th / passing O 25th / rushing D 15th / passing D 10th).

 

It just doesn't compute to me to ignore the worst performing unit, and instead, upgrade the rest that are already above average. And I'm just not sure the elements that JB struggles with, are things that will improve to the level needed. I stand by my previous opinion on natural vs learned skill, and the ability to improve in certain areas.

 

Your bias leads you to your conclusion, my bias leads me to mine. (jury still out, but trending up) It's called discussion.

 

I feel it's still too early to determine if JB7 is unacceptable to lead this team and go searching for new QB's that may not be any better over time.

 

You feel different. It's OK.  But Ballard and Reich control the strings.  I will use input of those that have experience to back their views, vs. a casual fan 'eye test' anytime.  That's just me though.

 

And if people get specific about what rails them, gives examples, I may even fire up All 22 and see if I'll join them... or not.

 

This is what the boards are for.  We are all Colts fans, and all views should be heard and people decide for themselves based upon evidence surrounding the claims.  It's all good.

[EastStreet]

9 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

How many Rings does BP, BB, and CW have?  Brady is declining, does BB have a chance at another ring?  (TBH, I've been a supporter of the Erhardt-Perkins O system for years too, and if my QB is labeled a system QB for running it well, so be it. Looking at you Matt Cassell, in NE, and Kansas City with CW)

IMO, most of those rings were a product of D and scheme, and in BB's case, also because of TB. And I agree on teh EP-O. And I'm OK with that. That said, do you think Reich, who is an O coach, will be OK with D, plus a game manager type QB as the new Indy identity? Do you think the Indy fans who have been used to a top 10 offense for 20ish years, will be fine with it. Do you think Irsay will be OK with declining ticket sales for fans that want to see O, and while the team transforms?

 

I think BB will retire when Brady does. If he stays, he'll make sure he's got a decent QB. He's not going to go through a rebuild or be patient. 

 

9 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

CW was aweful at HC, very good O coordinator.  To me, the Wade Phillips of offense. 

He's was bad at recruiting, talent evaluation, and QB development at the college level too. 

His time at ND....

 

2005 Evan Sharpley - A nothing burger, but won't hold this too much against him given the timing.

2006 Zach Frasier - nothing burger

2006 Demetrius Jones - nothing burger

2007 Jimmy Clausen - #1 overall recruit. Didn't take too much evaluation as his numbers were eye popping. You would think all that time with CW combined with the raw talent of JC would have amounted to an NFL QB. Nah....

2008 Dayne Cryst - another stud out of of HS and #1 in some services. CW totally screwed this kid up. Followed him to KS and still never amounted to anything. 

2009 No QB

 

9 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

BP rules are to see how many boxes get checked.  Here's a results check from 3 years ago-

 

Quarterbacks who hit all four pieces of criteria (7/14)

Peyton Manning

Drew Brees

Tony Romo

Russell Wilson

Philip Rivers

Eli Manning

Carson Palmer

 

Quarterbacks who hit three of the four pieces of criteria (2/14)

Andrew Luck

Matt Ryan

 

Quarterbacks who hit two of the four pieces of criteria (4/14)

Tom Brady

Joe Flacco

Aaron Rodgers

Ben Roethlisberger

 

Quarterback who hit one of the four pieces of criteria (1/4)

Cam Newton

 

What were the 4 pieces used-

1. He must be a senior, because you need time and maturity to develop into a good professional quarterback.

2. He must be a graduate, because you want someone who takes his responsibilities seriously.

3. He must be a three-year starter, because you need to make sure his success wasn’t ephemeral and that he has lived as "the guy" for some period of time.

4. He must have at least 23 wins, because the big passing numbers must come in the context of winning games.

So JB meets the first two. Mature and responsible. Doesn't meet the performance criteria.

I agree, great guy, and great leader. Just not sure about the talent.

 

9 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

He became convinced before the mark, much like Luck convinced most all folks well before as well.  That is one upper level mark to assess what you have, and where to go from there.

I'd love to understand his rationale and criteria. The stats and performance don't jive.

[EastStreet]

26 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Let’s just say you upgrade to give him better weapons and it doesn’t help or work out. The worst case scenario is you have upgraded the team and give a new QB a better chance at winning. Look at all the weapons Mahomes had in his first year starting. That enabled him to have a great season instead of no weapons and struggle. The best case is you upgrade and he gets better and he is your guy. The worst case is the new weapons don’t work and you bring in a new QB with great weapons. Build the best team around him and see what you have. If it doesn’t work you have a great team for a new QB.

Please don't compare Mahomes to JB. 

We already have a top 10 rushing O, and passing D. 

We have the 15th ranked rushing D. 

Passing is 25th.

 

Honest Questions.

1) What specifically would you like to upgrade on O?

2) We already have declining attendance. Do you think Irsay will be patient and ignore a decline in ticket sales? If so, how long?

3) Are you willing to gamble on another year or two of JB's current level of performance, plus additional years of a rookie QB coming up to speed (in other words, what will be possibly a 5 year rebuild) in lieu of starting that now? Keep in mind while you wait, players get older and additional upgrades are needed.

[EastStreet]

28 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Your bias leads you to your conclusion, my bias leads me to mine. (jury still out, but trending up) It's called discussion.

 

I feel it's still too early to determine if JB7 is unacceptable to lead this team and go searching for new QB's that may not be any better over time.

 

You feel different. It's OK.  But Ballard and Reich control the strings.  I will use input of those that have experience to back their views, vs. a casual fan 'eye test' anytime.  That's just me though.

 

And if people get specific about what rails them, gives examples, I may even fire up All 22 and see if I'll join them... or not.

 

This is what the boards are for.  We are all Colts fans, and all views should be heard and people decide for themselves based upon evidence surrounding the claims.  It's all good.

We all have biases. That's human. And I agree it's too early to make a decision now. I've said for a while that the last 7 games are what is key to me. If he makes consistent and sustained improvement, I'm all for rolling with him. If it's the same muddling and inconsistencies, I'll probably be in favor of moving on. 

 

I rely on stats and objective data over potential bias in eye tests and opinion. I don't totally dismiss the eye tests and opinion, but in most cases, the eye test and opinion SHOULD match up to the objective data. 

 

It's all good, even when some is bad :-)

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

50 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Please don't compare Mahomes to JB. 

We already have a top 10 rushing O, and passing D. 

We have the 15th ranked rushing D. 

Passing is 25th.

 

Honest Questions.

1) What specifically would you like to upgrade on O?

2) We already have declining attendance. Do you think Irsay will be patient and ignore a decline in ticket sales? If so, how long?

3) Are you willing to gamble on another year or two of JB's current level of performance, plus additional years of a rookie QB coming up to speed (in other words, what will be possibly a 5 year rebuild) in lieu of starting that now? Keep in mind while you wait, players get older and additional upgrades are needed.

I wasn’t comparing the two QB. I was comparing the situations.  If you go get a QB first instead of building a complete team your back to what we had with Luck and it being about one player. I don’t even know how you even took that as comparing QB. That isn’t even what I said.  I would rather build this team and see what we have.  If he isn’t the guy the worst case is you bring in a new Qb with a good supporting cast. Your putting a new QB in a bad situation by not improving a team first. Let’s be real Jacoby isn’t horrible where we just need to dump him for a unknown.

 

Yes I am willing to give Jacoby a couple of years and building around him. He has all the intangibles so yes let’s see where he can take us. With the way this team is built right now no rookie QB is going to do much better. Bringing in a rookie QB sets us even farther back then giving a guy who has been here a couple of years time to see what he can do. Your going to give a rookie QB a much better chance of winning if he comes to a great team if Jacoby isn’t the guy. That’s why I brought up KC.  They already had a pretty good foundation for Mahomes. Not that I was saying that I was saying Jacoby was as good as him. I was talking about if we bring in a rookie he will be better off if he comes into a better built team. Had nothing to do with Jacoby.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

These are the improvements I want to see. We need a better compliment for Mack at RB. We need a better RG. Whether that is moving smith back and drafting a tackle doesn’t really matter. We need a big game changing DT. We need our WR to stay healthy and I wouldn’t mind taking a WR as our first pick. There will probably be a stud. 

 

If we do these things and the team and offense isn’t better then I am willing to try a new QB. 

[hoosierhawk]

16 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

I litterly just mentioned he was a part of the issue. Quit ignoring what I post.

You are the champ at ignoring posts and not backing up your previous posts.

[EastStreet]

1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

I wasn’t comparing the two QB. I was comparing the situations.  If you go get a QB first instead of building a complete team your back to what we had with Luck and it being about one player. I don’t even know how you even took that as comparing QB. That isn’t even what I said.  I would rather build this team and see what we have.  If he isn’t the guy the worst case is you bring in a new Qb with a good supporting cast. Your putting a new QB in a bad situation by not improving a team first. Let’s be real Jacoby isn’t horrible where we just need to dump him for a unknown.

 

Yes I am willing to give Jacoby a couple of years and building around him. He has all the intangibles so yes let’s see where he can take us. With the way this team is built right now no rookie QB is going to do much better. Bringing in a rookie QB sets us even farther back then giving a guy who has been here a couple of years time to see what he can do. Your going to give a rookie QB a much better chance of winning if he comes to a great team if Jacoby isn’t the guy. That’s why I brought up KC.  They already had a pretty good foundation for Mahomes. Not that I was saying that I was saying Jacoby was as good as him. I was talking about if we bring in a rookie he will be better off if he comes into a better built team. Had nothing to do with Jacoby.

How do you call a team with a top 10 rushing O this year, a top 5 OL, and a WR/TE receiving core that was #6 last year, a bad foundation. Rookies would kill for that opportunity.

[ColtsBlueFL]

2 hours ago, EastStreet said:

IMO, most of those rings were a product of D and scheme,

 

 

Great! can we get some of that here?

 

Quote

and in BB's case, also because of TB. And I agree on teh EP-O. And I'm OK with that. That said, do you think Reich, who is an O coach, will be OK with D, plus a game manager type QB as the new Indy identity?

 

Reich was a top level career backup to HOF er Jim Kelly. Played from 1985 to 1998. Bill Polian told him early in his career to contact him for coaching job when he was through playing.  BP says he now knows how to piece the whole team puzzle together.  I think Reich will do what any coach (all levels/positions) is tasked to do... take the guys given to you and teach them to be their best, then place them situations where they can succeed, and devise plays they can be successful running.

 

Quote

 

Do you think the Indy fans who have been used to a top 10 offense for 20ish years, will be fine with it.

 

Do not know, but do know if a teams wins, that attracts/keeps fans.

 

Quote

Do you think Irsay will be OK with declining ticket sales for fans that want to see O, and while the team transforms?

 

We don't know what will transpire. But I'd like to see more complimentary football. That includes ST's and a good kicker closer games).  So AV would be on 2020 notice as well.

Irsay went through bad years. He vslues building the 'right' stability... not

 

Quote

I think BB will retire when Brady does. If he stays, he'll make sure he's got a decent QB. He's not going to go through a rebuild or be patient. 

 

Time will tell...

 

Quote

He's was bad at recruiting, talent evaluation, and QB development at the college level too. 

His time at ND....

 

CW was only good at Pro level, as an OC.  Poor college HC, no question.

 

Quote

2005 Evan Sharpley - A nothing burger, but won't hold this too much against him given the timing.

2006 Zach Frasier - nothing burger

2006 Demetrius Jones - nothing burger

2007 Jimmy Clausen - #1 overall recruit. Didn't take too much evaluation as his numbers were eye popping. You would think all that time with CW combined with the raw talent of JC would have amounted to an NFL QB. Nah....

2008 Dayne Cryst - another stud out of of HS and #1 in some services. CW totally screwed this kid up. Followed him to KS and still never amounted to anything. 

2009 No QB

 

So JB meets the first two. Mature and responsible. Doesn't meet the performance criteria.

I agree, great guy, and great leader. Just not sure about the talent.

 

Time will tell, but it is Reich's, Sirianni's, and Brady's job to coach JB7 to his best, create to his strengths, and devise successful game plans to take advantage of it.

 

[EastStreet]

51 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

These are the improvements I want to see. We need a better compliment for Mack at RB. We need a better RG. Whether that is moving smith back and drafting a tackle doesn’t really matter. We need a big game changing DT. We need our WR to stay healthy and I wouldn’t mind taking a WR as our first pick. There will probably be a stud. 

 

If we do these things and the team and offense isn’t better then I am willing to try a new QB. 

I'm only with you on DT, but we're talking O.

 

So you're not happy with a top 10 RB, but you're happy with a #25 QB? The rushing game is not holding us back at all right now.

 

Our OL is top 5, while I'm open to upgrading (more picking AC's eventual replacement), it's already one of the best in the NFL and is not holding us back.

 

A first round WR is not going to happen. We were number 6 in passing O last year, and are number 25 this year. What has changed? Inman is the only one that's gone who was decent, and Pascal is just as good as him if not better at X. We got a healthy Doyle back. We haven't really seen what Funch and Campbell can do, but they were added. 

 

So not a lot of losses, and some pretty decent adds. In short, we went from #6 to #25 because of the QB change, not because the WRs/TEs are deficient. If we know our WRs/TEs are capable of being top 10, and we haven't even been able to see what the 2 best adds can do (Funch and PC), why would we add a first round WR?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

20 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

How do you call a team with a top 10 rushing O this year, a top 5 OL, and a WR/TE receiving core that was #6 last year, a bad foundation. Rookies would kill for that opportunity.

We need a better compliment to Mack. Something in the Adrian Peterson or Gore mold . Like I said we need our WR to stay healthy. It doesn’t hurt to keep building that offense and making it better. If pascal is your fourth WR your in pretty good shape. Let’s be real Luck is the one that made Ebron a star. The right side of our oline has been exposed all season. We played some pretty bad teams last year with not much pass rush. This year they are getting exposed by teams with good pass rushers.

 

We aren’t close yet on defense. The defense is aging in a lot of areas on the dline. 

 

We have a offense that is still learning about each other and have some major injuries. Hopefully Campbell comesback and ends up being the guy that helps take pressure off TY. Getting the Campbell we saw in Pittsburgh and TY back on the field together will help TY a lot.

 

The fact Reich even talked about working with him on reads tells me they have kept it simple with him and not try to put to much on his shoulders. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

2 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Honest Questions.

1) What specifically would you like to upgrade on O?

 

I'd like better WR corps (Colts have never won with TY out...) that can perform without TY in the lineup.

I'd like to see a true FB on the roster... or train a guy like Nelson to be one.

I'd like to see the right side of the O line learn how to pass off on twisting stunts. It's one thing for a team with TJ Watt & company to pull it off here and there, but inexcusable for the Dolphins front to do it as well.

Once pass blocking improves, and receivers get healthy, like to see some wrinkles to the pass scheme. Teams are getting tape on what they do.  Time to continue the successful things, but from different looks IMO, and sometimes different down and distance scenarios.

 

As far as what Jim Miller and Pat Kirwan say, I'll know soon as both Foles and Brissett return in the Colts/Jags match up and they will address it. I'll post it after I hear them (their show is on live now).

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

7 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

I'd like better WR corps (Colts have never won with TY out...) that can perform without TY in the lineup.

I'd like to see a true FB on the roster... or train a guy like Nelson to be one.

I'd like to see the right side of the O line learn how to pass off on twisting stunts. It's one thing for a team with TJ Watt & company to pull it off here and there, but inexcusable for the Dolphins front to do it as well.

Once pass blocking improves, and receivers get healthy, like to see some wrinkles to the pass scheme. Teams are getting tape on what they do.  Time to continue the successful things, but from different looks IMO, and sometimes different down and distance scenarios.

 

As far as what Jim Miller and Pat Kirwan say, I'll know soon as both Foles and Brissett return in the Colts/Jags match up and they will address it. I'll post it after I hear them (their show is on live now).

Campbell is a huge piece to the puzzle when it comes to having variety and unpredictablity. We saw a lot of different things in that Steelers game. He can catch out of the slot, he can run the ball, he can do jet sweeps. If he learns that outside game he is going to be so dangerous. He will give Reich a player that can do so many different things so the offense is not so predictable. I am excited to see him grow. 

[EastStreet]

15 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Great! can we get some of that here?

I'd love some of it here. I don't think our D scheme, and certainly the personnel is enough to win consistently with a game manager type QB. Something has to give. Is it easier to try and upgrade one position, or a bunch of different positions and alter scheme? 

 

15 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Reich was a top level career backup to HOF er Jim Kelly. Played from 1985 to 1998. Bill Polian told him early in his career to contact him for coaching job when he was through playing.  BP says he now knows how to piece the whole team puzzle together.  I think Reich will do what any coach (all levels/positions) is tasked to do... take the guys given to you and tech them to be their best, then place them situations where they can succeed.

I'm familiar with Reich's career. I keep hoping for 4 vert / k-gun lol. I'm not sure how much I can buy the bolded above. Reich's been on the O side his entire career, and is in his first stint as HC. I'm not saying he isn't capable or smart enough, but his experience is very one sided pre-Colts. 

 

15 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Do not know, but do know if a teams wins, that attracts/keeps fans.

I agree winning attracts fans, but a team transformation will take time. I'm not sure the fan base is patient enough, and not sure Irsay is open to years of potential revenue decline while the transformation takes place.

 

15 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Time will tell...

I will celebrate the day TB retires. And again when BB does. If they both retire at the same time, it will be a hell of a night.

 

15 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

CW was only good at Pro level, as an OC.  Poor college HC, no question.

It's why I put zero stock in his evaluation when he was FL.

 

15 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Time will tell, but it is Reich's, Sirianni's, and Brady's job to coach JB7 to his best, create to his strengths, and devise successful game plans to take advantage of it.

Hoping to see some great stuff in the next 7 games.

[Four2itus]

1 hour ago, hoosierhawk said:

You are the champ at ignoring posts and not backing up your previous posts.

[EastStreet]

17 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

I'd like better WR corps (Colts have never won with TY out...) that can perform without TY in the lineup.

The drop from 6th to 25th this year (passing ypg) with mainly the same personnel really has me soured on upgrading WR in our current state. First, I want to see what the addition of Funch and PC do to the O. Second, I need to see improvement from JB in key areas before I go any further. A swap for Funch is fine, but not keeping him and spending a bunch on another.

 

17 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

I'd like to see a true FB on the roster... or train a guy like Nelson to be one.

You're speaking my language now. I'd be happy with any good short yardage option to bull doze when we need it. 

 

17 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

I'd like to see the right side of the O line learn how to pass off on twisting stunts. It's one thing for a team with TJ Watt & company to pull it off here and there, but inexcusable for the Dolphins front to do it as well.

While I agree, our pass pro grades are still top 5 and JB is one of the least sacked. I do think Glow is a weak link, and should be replaced at some point (either with a new OG, or Smith and a new T). JB also needs to get his time to throw down. Reich's O is built on quick passing, but we're one of the slowest passers in the league. Can't ignore the extra work that puts on the OL, or the impact to scheme itself. 

 

17 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Once pass blocking improves, and receivers get healthy, like to see some wrinkles to the pass scheme. Teams are getting tape on what they do.  Time to continue the successful things, but from different looks IMO, and sometimes different down and distance scenarios.

Reich has always preached the "same look" and multiples out of it. But I agree, we need different outputs to those same looks at minimum. Play calling has been very predictable. And I hate the calls in our rushing game especially. 

 

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

On moving the chains today-

 

Pat Kirwan on upcoming Colts / Jags game-

 

"Brissett will not have TY or Campbell, so you could talk yourself out of the Colts, I won't though. Brissett is a good, steady influence, I like their offensive line, I think their running back is underrated. Jacksonville, good team, but think about who they really are. They haven't won a game against a team with a winning record. They're playing a team with a winning record. They're playing on the road. They have not done well in division in a while. If you start looking at who they've been, 2 and 7 against division opponents..." 

 

Then Jim Miller cuts in and voices over PK's comments...

 

PK  continues-  "Division game, vs winning team, on the road, 3 things on my mind..."

 

Miller doing promo and cuts PK off because he couldn't here Pat anymore, even though PK could still be heard over the air.  Says He (Miller) picks Jax,  and PK takes the Colts for their first disagreement of the day. Cut to commercial break...

 

No more Colts/Jags talk after the break.  So have to wait until Monday's MTC show for updated commentary.

[ColtsBlueFL]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

Reich has always preached the "same look" and multiples out of it. But I agree, we need different outputs to those same looks at minimum. Play calling has been very predictable. And I hate the calls in our rushing game especially. 

 

Time for some 'different looks, but same play' mixup, IMHO.  It's not on tape.

[EastStreet]

11 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Time for some 'different looks, but same play' mixup, IMHO.  It's not on tape.

I'll be happy with different anything. Some vertical success would be a nice change.

[Thorolf]

It just makes sense that Jacoby will have some problems. After all, he has not really been the starter for very many games. Look at how Peyton was in his first couple of years. he set team records for interceptions ! But maturity smoothed him out ! I think Jacoby can do that too, as long as he can stay healthy !!

[2006Coltsbestever]

We all might as well face it, it is most likely that JB is going to be our QB the rest of this year and next year. Whether people like it or not that is probable as he is under contract next year. We can all pick and prod at him all we want and point to his stats isn't good in this category or that category, etc.. I just want to win and we were 5-2 under center with JB, since his injury we have lost 2 in a row. His leadership is respected by the team.

 

Also a lot of JB's problems for not throwing deep more is his WR core. Outside of TY Hilton who is great? Some don't even put TY in the great category, some say he is just good. He really doesn't have a true deep threat and don't give me Cain as he is a suspect route runner. Does anyone really think that JB's yardage numbers wouldn't be better if for example we had a healthy TY and someone like a Julio Jones type? 14 TD's to 3 INT's ratio, 2 300 yard games, and was 5-2 before he went down. It's his team and I am glad for at least this year. Watching Hoyer play last week brought back sick memories for me of watching Painter play. I do not want to see that again .

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

TUA just had a significant injury that ends his season and puts his career at risk today.  Did anyone see that.

[EastStreet]

22 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We all might as well face it, it is most likely that JB is going to be our QB the rest of this year and next year. Whether people like it or not that is probable as he is under contract next year. We can all pick and prod at him all we want and point to his stats isn't good in this category or that category, etc.. I just want to win and we were 5-2 under center with JB, since his injury we have lost 2 in a row. His leadership is respected by the team.

 

Also a lot of JB's problems for not throwing deep more is his WR core. Outside of TY Hilton who is great? Some don't even put TY in the great category, some say he is just good. He really doesn't have a true deep threat and don't give me Cain as he is a suspect route runner. Does anyone really think that JB's yardage numbers wouldn't be better if for example we had a healthy TY and someone like a Julio Jones type? 14 TD's to 3 INT's ratio, 2 300 yard games, and was 5-2 before he went down. It's his team and I am glad for at least this year. Watching Hoyer play last week brought back sick memories for me of watching Painter play. I do not want to see that again .

Go routes (deep) aren't really routes.... It's beat the press (which Reich complimented DC on) and run straight.

 

After all the discussion, stats, and all22s about open WRs and TEs down field, and you still don't think JB has a problem with vertical passing.... good grief.

[ColtsBlueFL]

17 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

TUA just had a significant injury that ends his season and puts his career at risk today.  Did anyone see that.

 

Yes, I posted about it  here-