Jump to content
Indianapolis Colts
Chloe6124

Reichs quote on Jacoby and his leadership

Recommended Posts

12 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Spot on. And.... Hilarious. Thank you. This post got me rolling. Even snorted.

 

You do admit he needs to improve, but you also blame other facets of our O a lot as an excuse for JB's issues. Stats are your friends.

That's more than rookies have... 

Yes, Brady improved a lot over time, but he also led the league in TDs in his 2nd year....

 

This can not be stressed enough. Reading Ds and going through progressions takes both vision and processing. Both are more "natural" than "learned" gifts. While they can be learned, it's much harder, and may even be capped for many. Both issues were present in college, and it's still a big struggle.

B.I.N.G.O.

Brady didn't lead the league in tds until his 3rd year.  Also,   if reading a defense is natural and not learned,   please explain how QBs get better at it over time.   

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

There are a lot of things to like about JB and his leadership skills is one of them.  I have mentioned in other threads, there are very few QBs who, I beleive, could have be thrust into the situation he was in and helped keep the team on a steady line and playing competitive football.

 

I will also say, it takes more than being a leader to be a great QB.  General Custard was a great leader, what he was not good at was reading a situation (kind of like he didn't go through all his progressions.)

 

yes, I did it. I tied Custard's lack of anticipating a setup to JB having trouble going through his progressions.  take that all my history teaches who said I didn't pay attention.

You may be confusing General "Custard" with Colonel "Mustard" of the game 'Clue.'   :^)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

You do admit he needs to improve, but you also blame other facets of our O a lot as an excuse for JB's issues. Stats are your friends.

 

If you're not prepared to admit that this offense is flawed, then a conversation with you on the topic is not one worth having.

 

you seem to be one of those people who struggles with the concept that two things can both be true at the same time.  Brissett needs to improve AND there are issues with the offense that go beyond Brissett's need to improve. 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Brady didn't lead the league in tds until his 3rd year.  Also,   if reading a defense is natural and not learned,   please explain how QBs get better at it over time.   

Good news is we don't need Brissett to be Brady.   The better news is that Brady himself had a long road of 6 years of steady improvement before he became what we know him as today.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

Good news is we don't need Brissett to be Brady.   The better news is that Brady himself had a long road of 6 years of steady improvement before he became what we know him as today.

 

I agree,  he got better over time

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Brady didn't lead the league in tds until his 3rd year. 

 

It was Brady's second year starting, and 3rd year in the league.

JB is now in his 2nd year starting, and 4th year in the league.

Don't spin.... 

 

Quote

Also,   if reading a defense is natural and not learned,   please explain how QBs get better at it over time.   

 

My actual words were "more natural than learned" and "While they can be learned, it's much harder".

 

I did not say "natural and not learned", and did not say QBs couldn't get better.

 

So..... please either read closer, or limit your attempts at spinning what I post.

 

BTW, Brady was good with both in college. His improvement once in the NFL was quick, consistent, and sustained. And he's still improving in some aspects. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

 

If you're not prepared to admit that this offense is flawed, then a conversation with you on the topic is not one worth having.

 

you seem to be one of those people who struggles with the concept that two things can both be true at the same time.  Brissett needs to improve AND there are issues with the offense that go beyond Brissett's need to improve. 

I've said in other post (plenty of them), that we have flaws that aren't JB. So yes, both are true. There is a difference however in large flaws, and small ones. Most of the data out there points to a large flaw, and that is the regression of our passing game. That regression clearly illustrates that our skill players were more productive prior to JB. That said.... 

 

I'd be happy to debate via fact and data all the flaws on O. I've never been a big fan of several guys on O not named JB, so more than happy to be factually critical of others. I'm happy to talk TEs, WRs, RBs, and OL in an objective manner. What I'm not willing to do however is ignore the clear regression of just about everyone, what the abundance of stats tell us, nor am I willing to embrace anecdotal laziness, or sunshine pumping faith. 

 

So what would you like to debate?

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

 

If you're not prepared to admit that this offense is flawed, then a conversation with you on the topic is not one worth having.

 

you seem to be one of those people who struggles with the concept that two things can both be true at the same time.  Brissett needs to improve AND there are issues with the offense that go beyond Brissett's need to improve. 

 

Yep. Take last night.  Just because Garrett’s actions were worse  then Rudolph’s that doesn’t excuse Rudolph’s actions. They can both be in the wrong and one can be worse then the other. 

 

This is my point. The offense isn’t struggling just because of the QB.  He is only a part of it. You have WR injured. You have a coach and QB still learning a lot about each other. Let’s not forget Reich wasn’t the coach in 2017. You have pass catchers getting used to a new QB. You have a QB still learning with not many NFL starts. Its not all on the QB.

 

If you can’t bring yourself to admit there are a bunch of issues it’s hard to have a conversation. 

 

The comments about not investing in more weapons because of the QB make no sense. You try and give him everything to succeed. If it doesn’t work you have a very good team with lots of weapons when you bring in a young QB or a veteran.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

23 starts. What kind of experience is that. Not like he has 5 years of starting.

Or 15 or 20 years! Are you insinuating that the years with Brady and the year with Luck doesn't count as experience?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I've said in other post (plenty of them), that we have flaws that aren't JB. So yes, both are true. There is a difference however in large flaws, and small ones. Most of the data out there points to a large flaw, and that is the regression of our passing game. That regression clearly illustrates that our skill players were more productive prior to JB. That said.... 

 

I'd be happy to debate via fact and data all the flaws on O. I've never been a big fan of several guys on O not named JB, so more than happy to be factually critical of others. I'm happy to talk TEs, WRs, RBs, and OL in an objective manner. What I'm not willing to do however is ignore the clear regression of just about everyone, what the abundance of stats tell us, nor am I willing to embrace anecdotal laziness, or sunshine pumping faith. 

 

So what would you like to debate?

We have all said he needs to improve. How is that sunshine pumping or ignoring stats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

It was Brady's second year starting, and 3rd year in the league.

JB is now in his 2nd year starting, and 4th year in the league.

Don't spin.... 

 

 

My actual words were "more natural than learned" and "While they can be learned, it's much harder".

 

I did not say "natural and not learned", and did not say QBs couldn't get better.

 

So..... please either read closer, or limit your attempts at spinning what I post.

 

BTW, Brady was good with both in college. His improvement once in the NFL was quick, consistent, and sustained. And he's still improving in some aspects. 

 

 

He was so good in college that he lasted until the 6th round.  Get real

 

 

   He worked hard and made himself better.   Had great coaches a long thev as well.   

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

He was so good in college that he lasted until the 6th round.  Get real

 

 

   He worked hard and made himself better.   Had great coaches a long thev as well.   

He was so good in college that he got himself upstaged by a shiny freshman too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Yep. Take last night.  Just because Garrett’s actions were worse  then Rudolph’s that doesn’t excuse Rudolph’s actions. They can both be in the wrong and one can be worse then the other. 

 

This is my point. The offense isn’t struggling just because of the QB.  He is only a part of it. You have WR injured. You have a coach and QB still learning a lot about each other. Let’s not forget Reich wasn’t the coach in 2017. You have pass catchers getting used to a new QB. You have a QB still learning with not many NFL starts. Its not all on the QB.

 

If you can’t bring yourself to admit there are a bunch of issues it’s hard to have a conversation. 

 

The comments about not investing in more weapons because of the QB make no sense. You try and give him everything to succeed. If it doesn’t work you have a very good team with lots of weapons when you bring in a young QB or a veteran.

 

6 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Yep. Take last night.  Just because Garrett’s actions were worse  then Rudolph’s that doesn’t excuse Rudolph’s actions. They can both be in the wrong and one can be worse then the other. 

 

This is my point. The offense isn’t struggling just because of the QB.  He is only a part of it. You have WR injured. You have a coach and QB still learning a lot about each other. Let’s not forget Reich wasn’t the coach in 2017. You have pass catchers getting used to a new QB. You have a QB still learning with not many NFL starts. Its not all on the QB.

 

If you can’t bring yourself to admit there are a bunch of issues it’s hard to have a conversation. 

 

The comments about not investing in more weapons because of the QB make no sense. You try and give him everything to succeed. If it doesn’t work you have a very good team with lots of weapons when you bring in a young QB or a veteran.

I've got run out, but I'll spell some things out for you when I return.

3 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

We have all said he needs to improve. How is that sunshine pumping or ignoring stats.

You've cited 99 problems why the O struggles, and typically JB isn't one.

2 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

He was so good in college that he lasted until the 6th round.  Get real

He worked hard and made himself better.   Had great coaches a long thev as well.   

Yes he did work hard. I've posted in another thread TB's history. It's pretty clear you know little about his history and performance in college (I'll try to dig it up later and link it). And you're only deflecting from the data point that he led the league in his second year (starting).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Imgrandojji said:

He was so good in college that he got himself upstaged by a shiny freshman too.

LOL... you're another one that needs to look a little deeper at TB's history and context.  See above, I'll link a previous post on Brady later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

LOL... you're another one that needs to look a little deeper at TB's history and context.  See above, I'll link a previous post on Brady later.

I know Brady's history, and I also know that many people have said that at the time of the NFL combine Brady probably looked the least like a QB of any QB they'd ever seen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

23 starts. What kind of experience is that. Not like he has 5 years of starting.

 

Pat Kirwan says he needs at least 30 starts,  Jim Miller says 4 starting seasons, to know what you have as a QB.

 

5 hours ago, csmopar said:

dude, hes basically in year 2. and not even fully in year two.  Even the now highly touted great ones, Manning, Brady, Brees, etc took more than 1.5 years of actual playing time to develop into what would make them legends.  and it could be argued that Manning's break out wasn't until year 4.

 

Fits, as above--

 

5 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

hes still been in the league 4 years! :facepalm:

 

with great coaching and also playing behind some of the best in the business. but yeah let's continue to treat him like some dumb 2nd year player.

 

Hmmm...  Araron Rodgers after 4 years behind a Super Bowl winning, gun slinging HOF'er and great coaching...

 

DOrTfVN.jpg

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Pat Kirwan says he needs at least 30 starts,  Jim Miller says 4 starting seasons, to know what you have as a QB.

 

 

Fits, as above--

 

 

Hmmm...  Araron Rodgers after 4 years behind a Super Bowl winning, gun slinging HOF'er and great coaching...

 

DOrTfVN.jpg

 

 

oh god not the Aaron Rodgers comparison again....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Yep. Take last night.  Just because Garrett’s actions were worse  then Rudolph’s that doesn’t excuse Rudolph’s actions. They can both be in the wrong and one can be worse then the other. 

 

This is my point. The offense isn’t struggling just because of the QB.  He is only a part of it. You have WR injured. You have a coach and QB still learning a lot about each other. Let’s not forget Reich wasn’t the coach in 2017. You have pass catchers getting used to a new QB. You have a QB still learning with not many NFL starts. Its not all on the QB.

 

If you can’t bring yourself to admit there are a bunch of issues it’s hard to have a conversation. 

 

The comments about not investing in more weapons because of the QB make no sense. You try and give him everything to succeed. If it doesn’t work you have a very good team with lots of weapons when you bring in a young QB or a veteran.

Be consistent. After the Pitt game you put 100% of the blame on the QB and ignored the   penalties and missed FG and said unequivocally that the QB lost the game.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

Be consistent. After the Pitt game you put 100% of the blame on the QB and ignored the   penalties and missed FG and said unequivocally that the QB lost the game.

That’s because he through 3 INT. We didn’t come close to losing because of one missed point. Miami’s offense was given 13 points and didn’t even have to move the ball  much to get a FG.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

That’s because he through 3 INT. We didn’t come close to losing because of one missed point. Miami’s offense was given 13 points and didn’t even have to move the ball  much to get a FG.  

Read the post. I said the Pitt game. As for the Miami game we lost by less that the TD Ebron  botched but I didn't refer to that game.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Imgrandojji said:

 

If you're not prepared to admit that this offense is flawed, then a conversation with you on the topic is not one worth having.

 

you seem to be one of those people who struggles with the concept that two things can both be true at the same time.  Brissett needs to improve AND there are issues with the offense that go beyond Brissett's need to improve. 

 

Flawed, maybe marginally so, yes, but compared to the Pagano years, this offence remains a godsend. Just saying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With Reich saying that today it kind of plays into maybe they have been keeping it simple with him and working the playbook up slowly. Not to put to much on his shoulders at once.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, CoachSmok3 said:

 

Bless you... Bless you. I am really trying not to poke bears today...

 

The itch was so strong...

 

You were my Neosporin.

 

Thank you.

 

I hear ya, but...  Benadryl. :)

 

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

It was Brady's second year starting, and 3rd year in the league.

 

2nd 'consecutive' year starting... with same scheme and offensive coordinator.

 

These were not the nearly the same in JB7's case.

 

And after 4 full years under Charlie Weis in the Earhardt-Perkins system he installed there (and still use),  Weis moved on and also told TB12 he had nothing more for him

 

Quote

JB is now in his 2nd year starting, and 4th year in the league.

Don't spin.... 

 

Different schemes and different offensive coordinators, with a year on the pine in between.

Every situation is unique.  Like Aaron Rodgers years 1- 4...

 

Quote

 

My actual words were "more natural than learned" and "While they can be learned, it's much harder".

 

I did not say "natural and not learned", and did not say QBs couldn't get better.

 

So..... please either read closer, or limit your attempts at spinning what I post.

 

BTW, Brady was good with both in college. His improvement once in the NFL was quick, consistent, and sustained. And he's still improving in some aspects. 

 

 

Charlie Weis ( and BB ) saw the 'it' factor in a young Tom Brady. Weis says he saw it in JB7 as well. (as, apparently, did Bill Parcells).  It's at least because of these 2 endorsements I placed my trust in Reich and JB7, and still do until >30 starts and 4 years manning the helm.

 

BTW, Pat Kirwan labeled JB7 as backup QB... until recently. He said JB7 won him over as a true blue NFL starting QB.

 

Time will tell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

That’s because he through 3 INT. We didn’t come close to losing because of one missed point. Miami’s offense was given 13 points and didn’t even have to move the ball  much to get a FG.  

 

Read the post. I said the Pitt game. As for the Miami game we lost by less that the TD Ebron  botched but I didn't refer to that game.

 

 

Not surprised you are not answering this post Chloie. Didn't answer it last week either.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jacoby is good, hes not great, hes not elite.  In time, with the right team around him and the right coaching he might be great, but probably never elite.  

 

Past few years hes been a very good backup, just because he was thrust into a starting role doesnt mean his skillset automatically makes the leap with him.  The demands on that skillset do, but the set is the same.

 

I like Jacoby alot, I'm glad we have him.  I honestly believe hes the right guy for right now.  Given the circumstances we couldn't have done better and I've really enjoyed watching him this year.  But hes a "top 20" qb in the best assessment of the people around him.  Not exactly glowing, but probably pretty fair.

 

The clock ticks on these mid talent dudes tho.  Unfortunately, as time moves on, his flaws will probably become more apparent than his strengths.

 

I'm not saying he cant improve, it's just that I believe those improvements will be marginal at best.  At this level there are so many intangibles, physical traits, mental acuity, etc that all eventually top out long before things like desire, skill, leadership, and work ethic.

 

If hes going to succeed it's not going to be on his own.  It will be as much about the team they build around him, and a scheme that continues to feature what he does best.  It's a much tougher proposition and it's going to lead to neverending debate in forums like these.  But its not ever going to be all about jacoby.

 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

oh god not the Aaron Rodgers comparison again....

 

To go right along with your tired argument, again.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

To go right along with your tired argument, again.

your gonna try to argue he isnt bad at going through his progressions?

 

my argument is what the coach literally just said his problem is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

2nd 'consecutive' year starting... with same scheme and offensive coordinator.

How did luck do coming back from a year off due to injury, in a brand new offense and OC year one? JB did have the benefit of being there in the same scheme and OC for a full year, so it was not like everything changed for him like it did for Luck.

 

1 hour ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

These were not the nearly the same in JB7's case.

 

And after 4 full years under Charlie Weis in the Earhardt-Perkins system he installed there (and still use),  Weis moved on and also told TB12 he had nothing more for him

 

 

Different schemes and different offensive coordinators, with a year on the pine in between.

Every situation is unique.  Like Aaron Rodgers years 1- 4...

We are comparing regression of supporting cast between two QBs with much of the same supporting cast.  I don't care much for the TB/JB comparison, but a little tired of hearing how slow TB was in his learning curve. He wasn't. He made mistakes, but he ramped up much better than folks are painting.

1 hour ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Charlie Weis ( and BB ) saw the 'it' factor in a young Tom Brady. Weis says he saw it in JB7 as well. (as, apparently, did Bill Parcells).  It's at least because of these 2 endorsements I placed my trust in Reich and JB7, and still do until >30 starts and 4 years manning the helm.

Both BB and BP were D guys. Look at both their complete histories with QBs and then give me your thoughts. CW is the only O guy, and his history of teacher and coordinator is much better than his history of talent judge. Look at his recruiting history and development in college (the whole history).

 

Here's a copy of a reply I posted on the whole BB and BP debate.... Feel free to disagree, but it's pretty obvious most of the 3s reputation surrounding QBs is primarily because of Brady.

 

https://nypost.com/2019/09/08/why-jacoby-brissett-has-a-big-backer-in-bill-parcells/

 

I love BP. Old school dude. Keep in mind he was a "defensive" coach. Do you remember the Bruner/Simms fiasco when he was in NY (not sure how old you are). Even BP admits he made the wrong QB decisions. At NE, he drafted Drew B with the first pick his first year, and then he bolted for NYJ after a few years. He didn't last long there either. When he was at Dallas, they were all over the place with QB.

 

I give him props for the two SBs in NYG, but he's also had some bad years and a lot of first round and WC losses. I don't think of him as a QB genius at all. It's pretty clear BP is more sold on JB's character than talent. And that's fine too. But his endorsement doesn't weigh heavily from a talent perspective given the entire context. 

 

As far as Belichick is concerned, he's a genius on many things. And he's also a D guy. Aside from Brady, what is his track record for QBs? His HC gig with the Browns was a real mixed bag. At NE, since Brady, he's drafted 10 QBs. The majority of them never amounted to anything. Did they have the "it" factor too? Aside from Cassell (who had more downs than ups) and Jimmy G, the rest were bombs. 

 

And JB was third on their depth chart, and IIRC they were shopping JB after the deflate gate and injury time was done. Not saying BB isn't a genius, or a great at evaluating .........  but the other 8 QBs did nothing, and what does that say about him? Love to hear the explanation.

 

1 hour ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

BTW, Pat Kirwan labeled JB7 as backup QB... until recently. He said JB7 won him over as a true blue NFL starting QB.

 

Time will tell.

 

Kirwan is OK, but he's also a guy with a D background, and just a talking head. He's had plenty of bad hot takes like the rest. I'd bet he made that comment after one of JB's better games like Houston. Can you link the interview when you have a moment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

He was so good in college that he lasted until the 6th round.  Get real

 

   He worked hard and made himself better.   Had great coaches a long thev as well.   

 

2 hours ago, Imgrandojji said:

He was so good in college that he got himself upstaged by a shiny freshman too.

 

Here's a post on TB's college days.... I know you two probably like to hang onto TB pics running at the combine, but it wasn't indicative of who he was.

 

Quote

 

The Brady comparison is really not a good one in most ways. Different era and situation. Brady has always been very gifted in certain ways (more on that) and was not mediocre in college. Did you know he was drafted by MLB out of high school. He was also a pretty big time FB recruit with offers from a lot of big time schools. He ended his UM career with several records and was top 5 in TDs, completions, completion %, etc.. He also played at a big time school, in a big time conference, won a conference championship as well as a lot of big games and both bowl games. 

 

From a skill set perspective, he got dinged (NFL draft) for being "un-athletic" as well as for playing smash mouth FB in smash mouth conference. He would have looked very different had he gone to USC or Cal (like was thought). He was always very gifted in terms of processing information and reading Ds, was very accurate for that era, and especially in that program/conference. And sure he improved over time, but he wasn't some kind of slow starter. He led the NFL in TDs in his second year starting. He was also great with field vision and going through progressions going back to UM. In that same year (his second year starting), he threw TDs to 11 different people, and multiple TDs to 7. Anyway, outside of maybe the "underdog" tag, they don't share really any commonalities. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

So when some of us fans mention JB has issues going through his progressions we are JB haters and discredit all the good he does but when Reich mentions it, it's just an area he needs to improve upon.

There are constructive ways to do it. 

 

Some people are running around saying JB sucks. That's an opinion.  It's a shame to see a lot of low rent posters shouting it from the rooftops. 

  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, CanuckColtsFan said:

There are constructive ways to do it. 

 

Some people are running around saying JB sucks. That's an opinion.  It's a shame to see a lot of low rent posters shouting it from the rooftops. 

 

 

Can you please explain who you consider a low rent poster?  Thank you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, ojsglove said:

 

 

Can you please explain who or what, you consider a low rent poster?  Thank you

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

here is the thing though, going through progressions is not something that takes years to do.  And all the QBs you mentioned and many others were very good at going through their progressions coming out of college.  I believe it's one of those things that cannot be learned more than incremental improvement, a QB either is good at it or they are not.  A QB may become better at it in their range but someone who is bad at it will not become good, someone who is good at it will not be great at it.  It's one of the major reasons why I don't think QBs like Watson or Winston are elite QBs.  It's also a big reason why Wilson has become an elite QB despite being "too small" to be an NFL QB.

 

Additionally, when it comes to something as fundamental for a QB as going through his progressions, you cannot just limit it to his starts.  he's been in the league for 4 years now.  Even has a backup/scout team QB he has to be able to go through his reads.  It is the same as saying that a LB only has 23 starts of course he's not going to be good at tackling yet.

You just had to throw in all those "W" QB names didn't you? :p Like a darn tongue twister!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Yep. Take last night.  Just because Garrett’s actions were worse  then Rudolph’s that doesn’t excuse Rudolph’s actions. They can both be in the wrong and one can be worse then the other. 

 

This is my point. The offense isn’t struggling just because of the QB.  He is only a part of it. You have WR injured. You have a coach and QB still learning a lot about each other. Let’s not forget Reich wasn’t the coach in 2017. You have pass catchers getting used to a new QB. You have a QB still learning with not many NFL starts. Its not all on the QB.

 

If you can’t bring yourself to admit there are a bunch of issues it’s hard to have a conversation. 

 

The comments about not investing in more weapons because of the QB make no sense. You try and give him everything to succeed. If it doesn’t work you have a very good team with lots of weapons when you bring in a young QB or a veteran.

Here's an analogy to help you understand.

 

If you own a racing team and have a good driver (Reich), and car that's struggling. You have to upgrade your car, but you can't do everything at once.

 

You can swap out the engine (JB), and that will make your car go 50mph faster without any other upgrades. You can swap out the tires (RB) that will make you 5mph faster with the existing engine, or 10mph with the new engine. You can upgrade the exhaust (TE) that will give you 5mph with the existing engine, or 10 mph with a new engine. You can upgrade the fuel system (WR) that will give you 10mph with a new engine, but only 5 with the old.

 

Logic would say upgrades are less effective with the old engine, so why would you invest in those when you know that the existing engine is limiting your car more than all the other things combined. In short, if JB doesn't improve with the existing cast (which performed better with someone else), it's throwing good money after bad.

4 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

We have all said he needs to improve. How is that sunshine pumping or ignoring stats.

The majority of your posts are about things/upgrades that need to improve to make JB better, instead of what JB needs to do himself to improve. There's a difference. 

4 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

I litterly just mentioned he was a part of the issue. Quit ignoring what I post.

Chloe, while many ignore you, I've actually been called out a few times for having patience and not ignoring you. I'm happy to take the time and show you the % changes in the supporting cast's (WR/TE/RB) performance since the QB swap to illustrate the regression (of those that played in both this year and last, and the units in general). 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Spot on. And.... Hilarious. Thank you. This post got me rolling. Even snorted.

 

You do admit he needs to improve, but you also blame other facets of our O a lot as an excuse for JB's issues. Stats are your friends.

That's more than rookies have... 

Yes, Brady improved a lot over time, but he also led the league in TDs in his 2nd year....

 

This can not be stressed enough. Reading Ds and going through progressions takes both vision and processing. Both are more "natural" than "learned" gifts. While they can be learned, it's much harder, and may even be capped for many. Both issues were present in college, and it's still a big struggle.

B.I.N.G.O.

To be fair, Brissett was tied for number 2 in the league with passing TDs before getting hurt... 1 behind the leader 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

I litterly just mentioned he was a part of the issue. Quit ignoring what I post.

 

This is rich coming from you... 

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

glad the coaching staff knows he sucks at going through his progressions maybe they can get that fixed by the end of the year 

Some of that SHOULD be fixed (Or improved) by repetition (I Hope) as well as some improvement / familiarity/ Timing with WRs/ TEs/ RBs on roster.

 

This year, I have seen significant improvement on "touch" for his passes....... its STILL not where it needs to be, but its on a positive trend

 

We need to cut the guy some slack...... at least for a few more games

 

We really don't have excellent immediate other options

 

Get the OL to block better

Get some health and performance from WRs

 

You may just be surprised

 

If JB tanks the rest of year, I will be first to give someone else another chance to take the QB spot.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

your gonna try to argue he isnt bad at going through his progressions?

 

my argument is what the coach literally just said his problem is.

 

No, you can have that argument with others. I have never disputed that take from anyone here.

 

I take issue with your (and maybe others) insistence JB is not a young, learning rookie type QB but a (nearly) 4 year vet. 

 

Most surely it was you that said this -

 

"hes still been in the league 4 years! :facepalm:

 

with great coaching and also playing behind some of the best in the business. but yeah let's continue to treat him like some dumb 2nd year player."

 

From that I infer you mean he has hit his ceiling, etc... :blah:  In fact, if not for his extension and Luck's retirement, he'd be in final year of his rookie contract

 

I listen to those with credibility.  In this case, I have heard Jim Miller (ex QB for the Bears and others) say it takes 4 years as the starter (consecutively and hopefully same system) and Pat Kirwan (ex scout, coach, and team front office executive) says a minimum 30 games as the starter (again, consecutively and hopefully same system) before the picture of what you likely have at QB (not referring to just JB either) becomes clearer.

 

In addition, on their NFL Radio show "Moving the Chains", Pat Kirwan has already changed his opinion on JB7 during the course of this year from being a backup QB thrust into a role into a real bonafide starting NFL QB that is still improving. Jim Miller was already on board early this season.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

No, you can have that argument with others. I have never disputed that take from anyone here.

 

I take issue with your (and maybe others) insistence JB is not a young, learning rookie type QB but a (nearly) 4 year vet. 

 

Most surely it was you that said this -

 

"hes still been in the league 4 years! :facepalm:

 

with great coaching and also playing behind some of the best in the business. but yeah let's continue to treat him like some dumb 2nd year player."

 

From that I infer you mean he has hit his ceiling, etc... :blah:  In fact, if not for his extension and Luck's retirement, he'd be in final year of his rookie contract

 

I listen to those with credibility.  In this case, I have heard Jim Miller (ex QB for the Bears and others) say it takes 4 years as the starter (consecutively and hopefully same system) and Pat Kirwan (ex scout, coach, and team front office executive) says a minimum 30 games as the starter (again, consecutively and hopefully same system) before the picture of what you likely have at QB (not referring to just JB either) becomes clearer.

 

In addition, on their NFL Radio show "Moving the Chains", Pat Kirwan has already changed his opinion on JB7 during the course of this year from being a backup QB thrust into a role into a real bonafide starting NFL QB that is still improving. Jim Miller was already on board early this season.

 

 

love I said he sucks at it hopefully reich can get it fixed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...