2019 WR draft / film notes

[shasta519]

53 minutes ago, Barry Sears said:

There's another thread on Stanley Morgan, Jr. of Nebraska.  I was impressed with the video posted.  I'm not as in tune as you guys and I guess he's a mid-to-late round pick.  But, if we go defense in our first 3 picks because of how the draft unfolds, I though Morgan looked very good as a later round pick.

 

I am a big fan of Morgan as a Day 3 slot WR target. Not flashy...but is athletic and should be productive at the next level.

 

 

[shasta519]

He's a late round target...but I would recommend watching Greg Dortch. One of my favorite late round guys. Watched him torch Louisville twice.

 

He's small and not super fast...but quick, shifty and just a playmaker as a slot WR and in the return game. Catches well too (has a highlight of an awesome one-handed grab). Seems very much like a great locker room guy as well.

[shasta519]

17 minutes ago, stitches said:

I'm not sure how much this can be fixed. Some of it might, but I doubt it becomes a strength. He doesn't seem to have natural instincts for tracking the ball and is consistently late to react to it. 

 

The good thing is he is fast and he does have some nice route running ability. I wouldn't mind drafting him for sure, but IMO the value for him is good late 3d-4th round rather than in the second. 

 

Not a huge fan...especially as a 2nd round pick. After he got everyone's attention at the Senior Bowl...he seemed to become a favorite around many Colts fans for various reasons. So I watched a couple of games. He's a solid prospect...just not one I would prioritize over others in this class (or be comfortable passing on to draft). 

 

Parris Campbell...on the other hand.

[stitches]

Just now, shastamasta said:

 

Not a huge fan...especially as a 2nd round pick. After he got everyone's attention at the Senior Bowl...he seemed to become a favorite around many Colts fans for various reasons. So I watched a couple of games. He's a solid prospect...just not one I would prioritize over others in this class (or be comfortable passing on to draft). 

 

Parris Campbell...on the other hand.

Yep, feel the same way. I was very skeptical about Campbell in the beginning of the process, because I got stuck on him playing almost exclusively in the slot and on gadget plays... but at the end I just cannot ignore the playmaking ability... he is spectacular playmaker. He will be one of my top rated receivers on my board.

 

IMO if you cannot make Parris Campbell work in your system, the problem is with your playcaller/coordinator rather than with the player and you probably need to be looking at a new offensive playcaller/coordinator... there are just so many things you can do with a player like him. I love his tape. So fun! 

[Barry Sears]

17 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

He's a late round target...but I would recommend watching Greg Dortch. One of my favorite late round guys. Watched him torch Louisville twice.

 

He's small and not super fast...but quick, shifty and just a playmaker as a slot WR and in the return game. Catches well too (has a highlight of an awesome one-handed grab). Seems very much like a great locker room guy as well.

 

EVERYONE torched Louisville this past season! 

 

Not to take away from Dortch, at all.  I live near Louisville and it was a brutal season.

[shasta519]

4 minutes ago, stitches said:

Yep, feel the same way. I was very skeptical about Campbell in the beginning of the process, because I got stuck on him playing almost exclusively in the slot and on gadget plays... but at the end I just cannot ignore the playmaking ability... he is spectacular playmaker. He will be one of my top rated receivers on my board.

 

IMO if you cannot make Parris Campbell work in your system, the problem is with your playcaller/coordinator rather than with the player and you probably need to be looking at a new offensive playcaller/coordinator... there are just so many things you can do with a player like him. I love his tape. So fun! 

 

Yep. Playmaking potential is huge. Colts need a guy/s that can RAC. Really hoping for at least one guy like that in this draft.

[shasta519]

2 minutes ago, Barry Sears said:

 

EVERYONE torched Louisville this past season! 

 

Not to take away from Dortch, at all.  I live near Louisville and it was a brutal season.

 

True. Dortch did it the past two years...and played through a punctured intestine en route to 4 TDs in 2017.

 

He's only 21...and only played two seasons of college football. His career per game averages are 90 yards and .85 TDs...in the ACC. 

 

If he was bigger or faster...he probably is up there with many of the WRs in this class. But I think his diminutive size and lack of top speed (like an Isabella or Brown) will cause him to slip way down. I would love to take a late-round flyer.

[Fluke_33]

1 hour ago, Mr. Too Proud said:

Riley Ridley?

 

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I haven't gotten back to Ridley yet. Don't know if Cosell has posted anything on him so far...

What i read on him is he takes too many plays off and doesn't have the passion his brother has.  If he did, it said, he would be a first rounder.

[stitches]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I haven't gotten back to Ridley yet. Don't know if Cosell has posted anything on him so far...

This is the podcast where he talked about Riley Ridley a bit, I posted it earlier(cutting out the rest and just leaving the things he said about Ridley): 

On 3/8/2019 at 10:22 AM, stitches said:

 

https://www.podcastone.com/episode/RTFP-1008-Greg-Cosell

 

Riley Ridley - I like Ridley a lot. Traits exceeded production. has the desired combination of size, length and movement. Very good feel for how to run routes and defeat both on and off man coverage. Combine test not great but he showed refined sense as a route runner, very detailed, understands how to attack the leverage of corners and to create separation at the top of his route stems. 

 

 

 

[Surge89]

7 hours ago, Superman said:

Must read from Greg Cosell on AJ Brown and N'Keal Harry. He sees what I saw (that means I'm as good as Cosell, officially).

 

 

 

Love it.

[Superman]

From reddit, yards per route run:

 

 

More support for Parris Campbell.

 

Edit: adding link because this is OC

https://old.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/b3d9t8/nfl_draft_wrs_yards_per_route_run/

[stitches]

15 minutes ago, Superman said:

From reddit, yards per route run:

 

 

More support for Parris Campbell.

He will end up very high on my personal board. 

 

Can I ask you to take a look at a receiver I like and one that is around that whole group on the chart above of Harry, AJ Brown, Harmon, etc... It's Dillon Mitchell. Have you seen him? And if you have what do you think about him? 

[Superman]

1 minute ago, stitches said:

He will end up very high on my personal board. 

 

Can I ask you to take a look at a receiver I like and one that is around that whole group on the chart above of Harry, AJ Brown, Harmon, etc... It's Dillon Mitchell. Have you seen him? And if you have what do you think about him? 

 

Yeah, I will. I still need to look at Damarkus Lodge also, before Matthew Gilbert comes after me in a dark alley...

[krunk]

Parris Campbell is my guy for the slot.  Or Andy Isabella maybe.

[Superman]

Cosell on Hakeem Butler and Keesean Johnson:

 

 

[stitches]

32 minutes ago, Superman said:

Cosell on Hakeem Butler and Keesean Johnson:

 

 

Would you be upset if we got Hakeem Butler AND Parris Campbell in the second round? 

[RNGDShobby]

2 minutes ago, stitches said:

Would you be upset if we got Hakeem Butler AND Parris Campbell in the second round? 

Yes, but only because we have bigger needs elsewhere and there would be guys there that have bigger value to us.

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, stitches said:

Would you be upset if we got Hakeem Butler AND Parris Campbell in the second round? 

 

Probably, I don't see that as a good use of resources. 

[chad72]

4 minutes ago, stitches said:

Would you be upset if we got Hakeem Butler AND Parris Campbell in the second round? 

 

Yeah, mainly because we have needs across the board. 

 

A.J.Brown and Hakeem Butler will not last till our No.59 pick, I just do not see that. So, by No.34, one of them needs to be drafted and both, IMO, will make an immediate impact.

[stitches]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

Probably, I don't see that as a good use of resources. 

You are killing my dreams.  But you are probably right. What if they are BPA? 

 

I think we will be set at WR for the foreseeable future with such a draft. This makes me want to do a mock... let me get back to you... 

[chad72]

2 minutes ago, stitches said:

You are killing my dreams.  But you are probably right. What if they are BPA? 

 

I think we will be set at WR for the foreseeable future with such a draft. This makes me want to do a mock... let me get back to you... 

 

I have a hard time rationalizing that there will not be another player at another position that will be comparable in BPA value at No.59, if we have already drafted Hakeem Butler at No.34.

 

No.59 is also a spot where a system fit for our D might far exceed how he is rated by other teams.

[stitches]

BTW listening to Cosell on Tennessee radio right now... he's hyping Butler like crazy. It feels like he thinks he will be a superstar. He doesn't say it, but the superlatives he's piling up on him are quite something. He's usually measured... with Butler he's effusive with his praise. 

[chad72]

Just now, stitches said:

BTW listening to Cosell on Tennessee radio right now... he's hyping Butler like crazy. It feels like he thinks he will be a superstar. He doesn't say it, but the superlatives he's piling up on him are insane. 

 

Didn't we say that if he ran a 4.4 40, which he did, he could shoot up boards?

[stitches]

2 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Didn't we say that if he ran a 4.4 40, which he did, he could shoot up boards?

not really... i feel like I was the only one who was in love with Butler BEFORE he tested. I guess most people just thought he would test like Harmon did. I never thought that. To me it was easy to see on tape Butler is MUCH better athlete than most of the contested catch specialists in this draft. 

 

I think people are going back to the tape now and rewatching it with new appreciation for what Butler does do well. A ton of analysts have bumped him a ton on their boards. Just watch what's happening at the draft network. 

[Superman]

3 minutes ago, stitches said:

You are killing my dreams.  But you are probably right. What if they are BPA? 

 

I think we will be set at WR for the foreseeable future with such a draft. This makes me want to do a mock... let me get back to you... 

 

Just now, stitches said:

BTW listening to Cosell on Tennessee radio right now... he's hyping Butler like crazy. It feels like he thinks he will be a superstar. He doesn't say it, but the superlatives he's piling up on him are insane. 

 

Just read Cosell's write-up on Butler, he's a bigger fan than I am, specifically of his route-running and ability to separate. The physical abilities are obvious. 

 

I'm curious what he'll write on Metcalf.

 

As for draft strategy, I feel like if Butler is still there at #34, you can get value in a trade back. Same if Campbell is there at #59, IMO. But I think the board is going to be interesting in the second round, and there will be some surprising players still there at both picks.

[chad72]

10 minutes ago, stitches said:

not really... i feel like I was the only one who was in love with Butler BEFORE he tested. I guess most people just thought he would test like Harmon did. I never thought that. To me it was easy to see on tape Butler is MUCH better athlete than most of the contested catch specialists in this draft. 

 

I think people are going back to the tape now and rewatching it with new appreciation for what Butler does do well. A ton of analysts have bumped him a ton on their boards. Just watch what's happening at the draft network. 

 

Not really on the "only one who was in love with Butler".

 

@MikeCurtis has been a big fan of Butler for a while, even before he tested. I felt Butler was the next coming of Alshon Jeffery but @MikeCurtis felt he was better all along. 

 

If you want to dig through threads to find those, feel free to do so.

[shasta519]

49 minutes ago, stitches said:

Would you be upset if we got Hakeem Butler AND Parris Campbell in the second round? 

 

I wouldn't be...but I am probably in the minority...though there are combos I like better...especially as 2nd round picks. But ideally, you can get two on Day Two. 

 

I really like this draft class and I think Day Two is a sweet spot for WRs in general. I also think both Butler and Campbell can be legit top-tier starting WRs (Butler as a WR2...maybe even WR1...and Campbell as a Y or Z receiver). Hard to beat that value.

 

Plus, you have an aging Hilton and a bunch of question marks. I look at a pass catcher group like the LAR as the standard. And other than Cooks...it's built on Day Two picks.

 

 

[krunk]

I like Deebo Samuel on the inside also as well as on the outside.

 

Pariss Campbell

Andy Isabella

Deebo Samuel

 

I like all the above

[RNGDShobby]

1 hour ago, krunk said:

I like Deebo Samuel on the inside also as well as on the outside.

 

Pariss Campbell

Andy Isabella

Deebo Samuel

 

I like all the above

These are my top 3 WR going into the draft. Value for WR this draft is much much deeper than DL/DE

[EastStreet]

Jalen Hurd is an interesting late rounder that could turn into a nice late bloomer in the NFL. 

Interested to see where he goes in the draft.

[krunk]

18 minutes ago, RNGDShobby said:

These are my top 3 WR going into the draft. Value for WR this draft is much much deeper than DL/DE

There's quite a few of them

[twfish]

2 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

Jalen Hurd is an interesting late rounder that could turn into a nice late bloomer in the NFL. 

Interested to see where he goes in the draft.

What round would you take him at?

[EastStreet]

18 minutes ago, twfish said:

What round would you take him at?

if we met most of our primary needs already, i think he would be a great gamble to take in the 6th or 7th. 

[Mr. Too Proud]

Late round Jazz Ferguson WR North Western??? I think his combine # is kinda close to Mike Evans...

[krunk]

I think we are looking for a slot receiver.  We already have two guys who I believe can play the #2 between Funchess and Cain.  We've got the #1 guy in TY.  We need to know more about Cain but I think he and Funchess also have the skill set to play the #1 in an emergency.  Cain I think may be good enough talent wise to do it full time. Then you have guys like Marcus Johnson and Fountain who could potentially be backup #2 receivers also.   We don't really have a clear cut slot receiver right now. Maybe Chester is the guy or Nyheim Hines situationally. A third but less likely possibility is Steve Ishmael.  There's some really good slot receivers with speed and size in this draft who have the ability to do more than just the slot if asked to. If we pick up a WR I think it will be a slot receiver.   When FA first started one of the rumors said we were looking for a slot guy. It said we were trying to get Cole Beasley but he signed with Buffalo. 

[DaveA1102]

18 minutes ago, krunk said:

I think we are looking for a slot receiver.  We already have two guys who I believe can play the #2 between Funchess and Cain.  We've got the #1 guy in TY.  We need to know more about Cain but I think he and Funchess also have the skill set to play the #1 in an emergency.  Cain I think may be good enough talent wise to do it full time. Then you have guys like Marcus Johnson and Fountain who could potentially be backup #2 receivers also.   We don't really have a clear cut slot receiver right now. Maybe Chester is the guy or Nyheim Hines situationally. A third but less likely possibility is Steve Ishmael.  There's some really good slot receivers with speed and size in this draft who have the ability to do more than just the slot if asked to. If we pick up a WR I think it will be a slot receiver.   When FA first started one of the rumors said we were looking for a slot guy. It said we were trying to get Cole Beasley but he signed with Buffalo. 

 

This is why I really wanted Adam Humphries.  Seemed a Ballard-type in terms of work ethic and was strong on YAC from memory.  Maybe a bit pricey, but thought he was worth the addition to utilise picks elsewhere, with the money we had to play with.

 

Obviously we don't know if we were in for him and were outbid, but a bit disappointing he is now in-division.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

On 3/6/2019 at 8:35 AM, Superman said:

Hakeem Butler is another athlete with upside. He's not as freakish as Metcalf, not as quick, not as fast in the 40, probably doesn't hit the same top speed either, but still an eye-popping athlete with plenty of explosiveness. More of a long-strider, like Braylon Edwards, with some Josh Gordon to him when the ball is in the air. Similar issues with route running, and creating separation out of breaks; he also is an inconsistent ball catcher, like Metcalf. But I think he's more physical, more imposing, uses his body better, has better awareness for where he is on the field, I think his footwork is better, and his tenacity once he has the ball is unmatched. He has double the production of Metcalf, and fewer injuries in his past.

 

I really like everything I've seen of Butler, the combination of speed, size, & athleticism makes him my favorite WR prospect in this draft. I'd be surprised to see the Colts take him though as I'd guess that they probably think they already have similar skillsets between Devin Funchess & Deon Cain.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, DaveA1102 said:

 

This is why I really wanted Adam Humphries.  Seemed a Ballard-type in terms of work ethic and was strong on YAC from memory.  Maybe a bit pricey, but thought he was worth the addition to utilise picks elsewhere, with the money we had to play with.

 

Obviously we don't know if we were in for him and were outbid, but a bit disappointing he is now in-division.

 

I agree all around, but the counter-point is that there seems to be a lot of slotty prospects in this year's draft.

[Superman]

28 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

I really like everything I've seen of Butler, the combination of speed, size, & athleticism makes him my favorite WR prospect in this draft. I'd be surprised to see the Colts take him though as I'd guess that they probably think they already have similar skillsets between Devin Funchess & Deon Cain.

 

I like him. I don't "really" like him. 

 

He has a lot of outstanding traits that I have started to believe are over-valued in receivers, and he doesn't excel in the areas that I do find highly valuable. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

9 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I like him. I don't "really" like him. 

 

He has a lot of outstanding traits that I have started to believe are over-valued in receivers, and he doesn't excel in the areas that I do find highly valuable. 

 

I could see his traits being overvalued if we were in need of a true WR1, but as a complimentary piece to TY Hilton in our offense, I think his traits would translate well.