How did the refs miss that?

[RockThatBlue]

Swoope was flung  out of bounds. Wow. The officiating today was almost more pathetic than our offense. Those refs shouldn't be allowed near an nfl field ever again.

[GoColts8818]

Bad call and I’d like to complain about the refs but the Colts have no one to blame but themselves for this.  They passed on three cheap shot field goals.  

[NewEra]

Who we firing?!?

[coltsfanatic89]

Everything about this game was just hideous, including that blown call at the end.

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

Who we firing?!?

That should be a long list.

[bluebombers87]

I said it in the game day thread but judgement calls shouldn’t be exempt from challenges. Not sure why the league feels they need to protect the egos of the zebras.

[Flash7]

39 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Swoope was flung  out of bounds. Wow. The officiating today was almost more pathetic than our offense. Those refs shouldn't be allowed near an nfl field ever again.

Swoope was clearly out of bounds, however, I believe the rule is that the player's momentum must also be moving forward for the clock to stop. In the replay, you can see that Swoope was absolutely blasted by Ramsey and he was going backwards. Yes, he was out of bounds, but his momentum was going backwards, and for that reason, the clock was not stopped.

 

It's a stupid rule, but called correctly on the field.

[IcyRhythms]

Yes. My understanding is that the player MUST BE moving forward in order for the clock to stop once they're out of bounds. Swoope was obviously not moving forward. It sucks. I think it's a garbage rule, and even more garbage that it's not reviewable.

[RockThatBlue]

44 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Bad call and I’d like to complain about the refs but the Colts have no one to blame but themselves for this.  They passed on three cheap shot field goals.  

FTR, I know they aren't why we lost. I saw the same game we all did today unfortunately. The offense was horrendous, but that doesn't mean the refs weren't horrendous as well.

[bluebombers87]

5 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

Swoope was clearly out of bounds, however, I believe the rule is that the player's momentum must also be moving forward for the clock to stop. In the replay, you can see that Swoope was absolutely blasted by Ramsey and he was going backwards. Yes, he was out of bounds, but his momentum was going backwards, and for that reason, the clock was not stopped.

 

It's a stupid rule, but called correctly on the field.

Then it’s never called correctly. How many times have we seen a player stopped by a hit only to move forward afterwards? By the rule you quoted then okay should be dead.

[bluebombers87]

1 minute ago, RockThatBlue said:

FTR, I know they aren't why we lost. I saw the same game we all did today unfortunately. The offense was horrendous, but that doesn't mean the refs weren't horrendous as well.

Yes, two things can be true at the same time. Never understood people who think criticizing the refs means we absolve the team of fault.

[NorthernBlue]

47 minutes ago, coltsfanatic89 said:

Everything about this game was just hideous, including that blown call at the end.

That should be a long list.

No it shouldn't.

 

Here's the list:

 

 

That's it.

[2006Coltsbestever]

REFS were garbage today. Much like the Philly game where we had every critical go against us. Hats off to Ramsey and his D though, they did a great job vs Andrew.

[Turftoe]

6 minutes ago, IcyRhythms said:

Yes. My understanding is that the player MUST BE moving forward in order for the clock to stop once they're out of bounds. Swoope was obviously not moving forward. It sucks. I think it's a garbage rule, and even more garbage that it's not reviewable.

I was not aware that that is the rule.  I am going to pay attention in future games to see if it is called that way (my guess is it won't be). Not disputing what you say, just haven't seen that call before.

[NorthernBlue]

The clock management at the end was pretty bad too. If the Colts weren't gonna spike it then they should have at leastthrown a few floaters in the endzone and hope for the best. 

[Flash7]

2 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

Then it’s never called correctly. How many times have we seen a player stopped by a hit only to move forward afterwards? By the rule you quoted then okay should be dead.

1. It's called correctly, but I agree with you that it's hit and miss. I think we all would like to see more consistency from the refs.

 

2. There are times when a player is hit, has their momentum stopped, and then fights to move forward, however, this does not apply when out of bounds, as was the case with the play in question here.

 

3. I don't like the rule, but the refs applied it correctly.

[bluebombers87]

1 minute ago, Flash7 said:

1. It's called correctly, but I agree with you that it's hit and miss. I think we all would like to see more consistency from the refs.

 

2. There are times when a player is hit, has their momentum stopped, and then fights to move forward, however, this does not apply when out of bounds, as was the case with the play in question here.

 

3. I don't like the rule, but the refs applied it correctly.

On your second point, he wasn’t just moving forward. He was moving upfield and to the sideline. Ramsey’s hit took away his forward motion but did not stop his progress to the sideline. Therefore his progress isn’t fully stopped. 

 

This is is a really in the weeds way of saying he landed out of bounds fully, therefore he is out of bounds.

[Flash7]

1 minute ago, bluebombers87 said:

On your second point, he wasn’t just moving forward. He was moving upfield and to the sideline. Ramsey’s hit took away his forward motion but did not stop his progress to the sideline. Therefore his progress isn’t fully stopped. 

 

This is is a really in the weeds way of saying he landed out of bounds fully, therefore he is out of bounds.

I'm under the impression that his forward progress was stopped. In fact, when seeing the replay, Swoope was going backwards after being hit.

[HOZER]

56 minutes ago, coltsfanatic89 said:

Everything about this game was just hideous, including that blown call at the end.

That should be a long list.

This, wholeheartedly agree. Well......the defense looked good for a good portion, a lot of theee and outs, but it was against a winless replacement qb that managed to move the ball just enough to score some points. As I said in game thread, team loss IMO.

[bluebombers87]

2 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

I'm under the impression that his forward progress was stopped. In fact, when seeing the replay, Swoope was going backwards after being hit.

And towards the sideline...

[Flash7]

3 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

And towards the sideline...

Yup, I'm not disagreeing with you that he was out of bounds. In order to stop the clock he needs 2 things:

 

1. Forward momentum (not sideways)

2. Must be out of bounds.

 

He met only 1 of those two requirements, and thus, the clock kept running.

[GoColts8818]

20 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

FTR, I know they aren't why we lost. I saw the same game we all did today unfortunately. The offense was horrendous, but that doesn't mean the refs weren't horrendous as well.

I wasn’t trying to say you were saying that as I didn’t take that from your post.  I agree it was a bad call and weather the Colts deserved to lose or not doesn’t make it ok.

[bluebombers87]

24 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

Yup, I'm not disagreeing with you that he was out of bounds. In order to stop the clock he needs 2 things:

 

1. Forward momentum (not sideways)

2. Must be out of bounds.

 

He met only 1 of those two requirements, and thus, the clock kept running.

So the ball is dead and marked when momentum is stopped, where? Out of bounds? They have to backtrack the ball and place back in bounds?

[Flash7]

Just now, bluebombers87 said:

So the ball is dead and marked when momentum is stopped, where? Out of bounds? They have to backtrack the ball and place back in bounds?

Hmmm...sorry Bluebomber, I'm not getting the gist of your questions.

 

The play was called dead when Swoope landed out of bounds. He was clearly out of bounds. However, his forward momentum had stopped, and he was in fact moving backwards. So although he was out of bounds, the play clock kept moving, resulting in the end of the game. There was no need to bring the ball back inbounds and place the ball in the field of play.

[Mr.ZapRowsdower]

We lost this game in the trenches on offense. The loss of Kelly really shows against a line like Jacksonville. Saying that, the refs were horrible. That late hit on Rogers was clearly intentional.

[SSFiero]

I've seen the rule applied when a player runs backwards out of bounds with less than 2 minutes. The ref will keep the clock running in that situation too. It wasn't the wrong call. But like Gene Steratore(Network Ref) said, it's a judgement call and given the game situation, he would have stopped the clock. 

[bluebombers87]

52 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

Hmmm...sorry Bluebomber, I'm not getting the gist of your questions.

 

The play was called dead when Swoope landed out of bounds. He was clearly out of bounds. However, his forward momentum had stopped, and he was in fact moving backwards. So although he was out of bounds, the play clock kept moving, resulting in the end of the game. There was no need to bring the ball back inbounds and place the ball in the field of play.

Ok here’s a question that might illustrate it better:

 

Runner is moving towards the goal, is stopped, then on a second effort reaches across with the ball and it breaks the plane. Touchdown?

[jimmy g]

7 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

Ok here’s a question that might illustrate it better:

 

Runner is moving towards the goal, is stopped, then on a second effort reaches across with the ball and it breaks the plane. Touchdown?

I'm guessing it depends on the Ref's Judgement of when Forward Progress was stopped, and if there was a whistle blown.  In Swope's case, the Ref was winding his arm to keep the clock moving almost before Swope landed.

[bluebombers87]

1 minute ago, jimmy g said:

I'm guessing it depends on the Ref's Judgement of when Forward Progress was stopped, and if there was a whistle blown.  In Swope's case, the Ref was winding his arm to keep the clock moving almost before Swope landed.

Which is fine. But it should be reviewable.

[rockywoj]

44 minutes ago, SSFiero said:

I've seen the rule applied when a player runs backwards out of bounds with less than 2 minutes. The ref will keep the clock running in that situation too. It wasn't the wrong call. But like Gene Steratore(Network Ref) said, it's a judgement call and given the game situation, he would have stopped the clock. 

The bigger issue is, that play should never have happened.  9 seconds from the 20-ish, there was ZERO to gain with a quick 3 to 4 yard out.  Instead of two shots for the end zone, you would get only one, from not really any closer.  Play should have been to the end zone, and if you miss, you maybe have a second or two to try again. It was a bloody horrible play call.  It’s almost like they deserved to have it epically fail. 

[Flash7]

11 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

Ok here’s a question that might illustrate it better:

 

Runner is moving towards the goal, is stopped, then on a second effort reaches across with the ball and it breaks the plane. Touchdown?

Yes, touchdown.

[bluebombers87]

1 minute ago, Flash7 said:

Yes, touchdown.

But his forward progress was stopped. According to the rules it’s a dead ball.

[bluebombers87]

4 minutes ago, rockywoj said:

The bigger issue is, that play should never have happened.  9 seconds from the 20-ish, there was ZERO to gain with a quick 3 to 4 yard out.  Instead of two shots for the end zone, you would get only one, from not really any closer.  Play should have been to the end zone, and if you miss, you maybe have a second or two to try again. It was a bloody horrible play call.  It’s almost like they deserved to have it epically fail. 

Agreed. It was a bad series of plays being called and I would hope whomever was making the calls reviews and learns.

 

But it did happen and it did remove a chance for us (however unlikely). All I think should be different is for it be revieweable.

[2006Coltsbestever]

The whole game was terribly REF'D. That last play was really horrible. Swoope was clearly out of bounds and it wasn't even close to being stopped by forward progress. I can't stand REFS that do not let players play and decide the outcome and I even brought this up at Halftime how bad they were. They were dictating the game all game. To not let one of the best QB's in the league to have a last shot to the endzone is a fail IMO for fans. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Flash7]

9 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

But his forward progress was stopped. According to the rules it’s a dead ball.

The rule that was applied to the Swoope out of bounds play is different than the one you’ve mentioned in your scenario. 

 

In your scenario, a runner is allowed to have their forward momentum stopped, and then regain forward momentum, as long as it’s before the refs blow a whistle. The refs usually blow the whistle once their is clear indication that the runner’s forward progress has stopped, and for a reasonable time. It’s still a subjective call, meaning that the timing of when the whistle is blown will very between refs.

[jvan1973]

2 hours ago, coltsfanatic89 said:

Everything about this game was just hideous, including that blown call at the end.

That should be a long list.

No,   no it shouldn't.   It was a bad game.  No need for anyone to be fired

[midwest]

17 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

But his forward progress was stopped. According to the rules it’s a dead ball.

Forward progress stops when the officials stop it. Ive seen them stop it really quick and the reach is not good and I've seen them let them fight for it more.  In this case the ref was indicating forward prgoress had stopped by winding his arms, indicating the play was dead and the clock keeps going.  I never did listen to hear if he was blowing his whistle at the same time or not.....

[bluebombers87]

4 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

The rule that was applied to the Swoope out of bounds play is different than the one you’ve mentioned in your scenario. 

 

In your scenario, a runner is allowed to have their forward momentum stopped, and then regain forward momentum, as long as it’s before the refs blow a whistle. The refs usually blow the whistle once their is clear indication that the runner’s forward progress has stopped, and for a reasonable time. It’s still a subjective call, meaning that the timing of when the whistle is blown will very between refs.

Same rule, different interpretation. Unless I missed where there were two different rules in the book. Fault ref.

[IinD]

Swoope got screwed by a great play by Ramsey?? (I don't remember who made the tackle)

 

He angled his tackle perfectly.

 

Not saying it was the correct call, but I think the ref rewarded the defender for his effort. Swoope got flung around awkwardly. It is what it is.

[BloodyChamp]

The Jags were overdue for a break after so many ticky tack personal fouls. Cambell was then scared to “tackle” Luck on that “sack” (wow how many times have I used that phrase this year?). I thought it was a bad call but complaining about after that game is crybaby Packers level complaining.

[ClaytonColt]

3 minutes ago, bluebombers87 said:

Same rule, different interpretation. Unless I missed where there were two different rules in the book. Fault ref.

It's not as different interpretation is it? 

 

Swoope simply didn't have an opportunity to get his momentum going forward again because he was off his feet. 

 

He was going backwards and was in the air. I don't know how anyone could look at that and say he still had forward momentum before he hit the floor out of bounds?