If They Totally Bone This Up

[oldunclemark]

Nothing wrong with sucking for a couple more seasons and collecting more high draft picks to properly rebuild the team. This is a 3 year project (w/o Peyton) in my opinion.

But the coach cant think that way because he wont be here if we play badly for 2 years...

He'll be fired.......That's how it usually works.

[chrisfarley]

I think if we do get Luck, he might actually kind of wow some people. I don't foresee the next Jeff George. Only time will tell. If Dalton can come in and do well for the Bengals, I see no reason why Luck will be terrible. He very well could do terrible l, but he very well could be an immediate superstar. Noone knows.

some people (sportcasters / media / former players) question his arm-strength and others are sold on his arm-strength,,,, while in no way shape or form would he have Jeff George's 50MM bullit arm, I think he can develop a good enough one through NFL-level strength training, etc. Elway and George perhaps Favre (and for that matter Rogers) all have/had VERY strong arms. If Luck even comes close, it's good enough.

[MR. Blueblood]

Sure, a good defense is needed. But I still say you can't win with just a great defense. Your example of the Ravens is exactly what I mean. A good defense and a super conservative offense wasn't enough.

BTW, here are the winning points in the WC - 45, 31, 29 and 24. Conference - 45, 37, 36, 20. See the trend?

The plays were there for them to win, a dropped pass and a missed field goal. If their great defense didn't shut down the Pats killer offense then the dropped pass and missed field goal would've been a moot point.

I never said that we need to have a top 5 defense, it would be nice but not necessary. You said a great defense can't win and I gave you an example of how it does win. And how did the Giants defense do in the Super Bowl? My guess is without their D playing good football NE would have another title.

Let's keep playing a fast D that gives up tons of yards, can't stop the run, can't get off the field on third down and can only be effective when they have a huge lead to work with, that sounds good to me. Who needs a good defense when all you need to do is score points.

How did that #1 offense work out for GB this year? Great regular season record and 1 and done in the playoffs...wonder if they had a better defense if that would've been the case?

[Coltsman1788]

yeah, it is a hose job. Name one pro-bowl talent drafted from 2006 to date? you have good players (angerer and powers).

the pats and steelers won without their stud QB, why didn't the Colts

Take up your gripes with ESPN dude. lol Polian isn't here anymore. This is a new day. FWIW, the Colts were going to have a drop off at some point after Manning, it's just that few expected that it could potentially be so soon. Fortunately, we have a pretty good QB prospect staring us in the face with our number one pick and a new front office that realizes that we need to build a strong overall team. Hopefully we will learn from the mistakes of the Polian era. But regardless of how you much you try to "poo poo" his accomplishments, it was still the best era of Colts football since the team moved to Indianapolis. So respect the man for that.

[MR. Blueblood]

You cant win in Indianapolis playing that way...

You cant stop everybody indoors on perfect conditions...

There are teams you have to outscore...

....That's why talk of a heavier. slower, more powerful team scares me...

What wins in Baltimore and Pittsburgh will get outscored in Indianapolis.....

So good defense can only be played outdoors, thanks for enlightening me

[Coltsman1788]

But the coach cant think that way because he wont be here if we play badly for 2 years...

He'll be fired.......That's how it usually works.

Depends on if the team is showing enough progress and potential. Believe me the feel around here will be more upbeat if the Colts struggle but we all see flashes of Luck becoming a star and the defensive philosophy starting to take hold. There is a difference between suffering through losing seasons when the franchise is showing signs that it is on the way vs. watching a totally directionless mediocre team. The Colts sucked in Peyton's first season here but all I could think about that year was the potential that lied ahead.

[TennEngr]

where colts went wrong is paying Peyton that an obscene amount of money forget the exact numbers didnt look it up before came to the boards BUT He is ONE man, ya cant invest like 100 million in one man thats stupid I dont care if hes the best of all time, he will only take you so far if the team dont have balance on offense an defense, ok he won ONE superbowl but that wasnt exactly against a juggernaught of a offense in the bears if anything Bears were offensively challenged lol, the colts have been defensively challenged for years, I think why the corners were so bad last year had alot to do with scheme, not saying they will get a whole lot better although lets hope with the new scheme they do, but after Luck I say BRING ON SOME HOGS AT DEFENSIVE TACKLE clog things up make the offensive line double team, less silly butt finesse undersized lineman its football NOT ballet and then in later rounds go for a corner and offensive line guard or LT, Im not sold on Costonzo he struggled mightily last year at times with pass protection but remember our line was out of whack most of the year do to injuries I dont think were in terrible shape there with better coaching they need to be more physical though, do to poor management with money this will be a long term project all the pieces are certainly not in place so I just look forward to watching the colts no matter what win or lose and seeing players grow and Pagano changing this team into a tough minded physical force he gets a pass as far as wins and losses go until his first contract is up and then go from their....FACE FULL OF COLTS, ENOUGH SAID thats the most intensity we have heard in a coach ever here in indy as far as colts go, I support Pagano 100 percent

I assume that it is the length of Peyton's contract that gives you a problem. 18 mil per year is what you are going to have to pay for a top QB. Drew Brees will probably get close to this and Aaron Rodgers may get a new contract to make him highly paid. QB's get obscene amounts of money anyway, we are fortunate to have had one of the greats. I don't think the Patriots are currently upset with paying Brady 18 mil.

[JoKeR]

some people (sportcasters / media / former players) question his arm-strength and others are sold on his arm-strength,,,, while in no way shape or form would he have Jeff George's 50MM bullit arm, I think he can develop a good enough one through NFL-level strength training, etc. Elway and George perhaps Favre (and for that matter Rogers) all have/had VERY strong arms. If Luck even comes close, it's good enough.

He can throw it 70 yards reportedly and I've seen a play where his legs were taken out from under him and he threw a accurate bullet for a completion about 30 yards. I think his arm strength is pretty good.

[Smonroe]

The plays were there for them to win, a dropped pass and a missed field goal. If their great defense didn't shut down the Pats killer offense then the dropped pass and missed field goal would've been a moot point.

I never said that we need to have a top 5 defense, it would be nice but not necessary. You said a great defense can't win and I gave you an example of how it does win. And how did the Giants defense do in the Super Bowl? My guess is without their D playing good football NE would have another title.

Let's keep playing a fast D that gives up tons of yards, can't stop the run, can't get off the field on third down and can only be effective when they have a huge lead to work with, that sounds good to me. Who needs a good defense when all you need to do is score points.

How did that #1 offense work out for GB this year? Great regular season record and 1 and done in the playoffs...wonder if they had a better defense if that would've been the case?

We can go back and forth with this, but the point is that GB got beat by a team who scored a lot more points than they did. And yes, the Giants shut down that great Pats offense in the SB. Until the end of the game. Then they had to put a heck of a drive together to pull it out. And, BTW, the Pats nearly pulled it out anyway.

If you don't believe this is an Offensive league, and having a stronger O will get you farther than a team with a stronger D, then you didn't watch the Pats last year. And you can't say the Giants had a dominant D either.

Not saying I don't respect your opinion, just that I don't agree with it.

[buccolts]

Yeah breaking news, dangerous twister causes widespread damage in Madison county Alabama.

I'm not believing a word of it until I hear it directly from Irsay, Peyton, or Peyton's agent.

Edited March 2, 2012 by buccolts

[Malakai432]

I'm not believing a word of it until I hear it directly from Irsay, Peyton, or Peyton's agent.

LOL!!!!!!! No doubt, right...

[oldunclemark]

So good defense can only be played outdoors, thanks for enlightening me

Mother Nature is an extra defender in December and January...

..you know that.

[MR. Blueblood]

We can go back and forth with this, but the point is that GB got beat by a team who scored a lot more points than they did. And yes, the Giants shut down that great Pats offense in the SB. Until the end of the game. Then they had to put a heck of a drive together to pull it out. And, BTW, the Pats nearly pulled it out anyway.

If you don't believe this is an Offensive league, and having a stronger O will get you farther than a team with a stronger D, then you didn't watch the Pats last year. And you can't say the Giants had a dominant D either.

Not saying I don't respect your opinion, just that I don't agree with it.

I'm not saying that switching to a defense only team is the way to go. The most complete team with a good offense and a good defense is what wins i.e. the Giants this season. 2 teams that had great offenses but poor defenses had great records but came up short (NE & GB). 2 teams that had great defenses and average offenses had great records but came up short (BAL & SF).

It's no coincidence that the year we won the SB was the year that our D came alive in the postseason and carried us to the SB. Football as always is a TEAM sport, you can't expect 1 side to carry everything for your team. Continuing to only focus on making the offense great will keep us in the same position we've been in....good-great regular seasons and little post season success. If Manning had been given a Defense the SB count would be much much higher.

[MR. Blueblood]

Mother Nature is an extra defender in December and January...

..you know that.

If you play in a cold weather city and happen to have bad weather on Sunday, there are just as many that don't play in cold weather in Dec & Jan as those who do. Teams with good defenses aren't reliant on the weather to give them an edge a couple games a year.

[Fireman818]

Everyone on here is talking this and talking that, this player did this and that player did that. Look, what weapons are we going to have on offense? We have no RB's, we don't have a #1 WR under contract and our TE is done. You guys can all scream we need Luck but the fact remains we need numerous draft picks and the only way to get that is keep Manning and trade that #1 pick. Sure, we lose a top QB but we need a lot of pieces to fix this team. This team needs a housing edition not a 12 acre farm out in the middle of no where. Wake up and quit drinking the we need this, "Water."

[subvet]

Everyone on here is talking this and talking that, this player did this and that player did that. Look, what weapons are we going to have on offense? We have no RB's, we don't have a #1 WR under contract and our TE is done. You guys can all scream we need Luck but the fact remains we need numerous draft picks and the only way to get that is keep Manning and trade that #1 pick. Sure, we lose a top QB but we need a lot of pieces to fix this team. This team needs a housing edition not a 12 acre farm out in the middle of no where. Wake up and quit drinking the we need this, "Water."

Wow, first time I've disagreed with an entire post, usually there is something of redeeming value but not here......

[wordofmouth]

Everyone on here is talking this and talking that, this player did this and that player did that. Look, what weapons are we going to have on offense? We have no RB's, we don't have a #1 WR under contract and our TE is done. You guys can all scream we need Luck but the fact remains we need numerous draft picks and the only way to get that is keep Manning and trade that #1 pick. Sure, we lose a top QB but we need a lot of pieces to fix this team. This team needs a housing edition not a 12 acre farm out in the middle of no where. Wake up and quit drinking the we need this, "Water."

Everyone on here is talking this and talking that, this player did this and that player did that. Look, what weapons are we going to have on offense? We have no RB's, we don't have a #1 WR under contract and our TE is done. You guys can all scream we need Luck but the fact remains we need numerous draft picks and the only way to get that is keep Manning and trade that #1 pick. Sure, we lose a top QB but we need a lot of pieces to fix this team.

This team needs a housing edition not a 12 acre farm out in the middle of no where. Wake up and quit drinking the we need this, "Water.

What?"

.

[JoKeR]

Our TEs are done now, ok

[Malakai432]

Our TEs are done now, ok

Apparently now we need to trade Luck for a solid TE/RB/WR/CB/SS/NT/OG.

[Gavin]

of course but he wasnt injured to the point where no one new if he was coming back, these players work darn hard but not 100 milion dollars worth or whatever the exact amount was over the length of the contract that money could have been used to better the team in other areas, we are in this cap problem now because specifically of BAD SPENDING if people want to put all their money into one player go ahead but you run the risk of the situation were in now and besides even if he dont get hurt that doesnt change the fact we have other issues that need to be addressed and HAVE BEEN NEEDING TO BE ADDRESSED for years and we cant address them properly cause we invested so much on ONE player, oh another example of bad spending, Injury prone (I speak of anthony gonzalez) oh and Kerry Collins, although I dont blame him for any of this he tried to do what he was asked to do it just wasnt going to happen, I dont understand resigning mid thirty year old players to millions and millions of dollars just to see them retire within a couple years, Thank you Peyton for being the leader and cornerstone of the colts for the last 14 years we appreciate all you have done on and off the field, but even he has to wonder what could have been if we had a better defense, Id let Bracket go we got a solid starter in Angerer, Leffedged only thinks with half of his brain out on the field let him go, returning them kickoffs 6 and 7 yards deep in the end zone is unacceptable, I was watching Colts Up Close one week and they had an offensive linemen on their I forget who unfortunately he was, a backup I believe who said he got a chuckle with another player cause he missed a block and Painter got blasted, yeah let him go, KEEP SHELTON, we NEED a fullback we need to make sure we stick to the run to throw people off, and did anyone notice with him blocking we could run the ball, dallas clark can go, we got Tamme, antonio johnson good bye and are you serious, justin snow good bye, curtis painter gone we have dan orlovsky he showed a suitable backup who could start on a couple teams, washington and seattle come to mind till a big time talent came in.. what do you all think

[wordofmouth]

of course but he wasnt injured to the point where no one new if he was coming back, these players work darn hard but not 100 milion dollars worth or whatever the exact amount was over the length of the contract that money could have been used to better the team in other areas, we are in this cap problem now because specifically of BAD SPENDING if people want to put all their money into one player go ahead but you run the risk of the situation were in now and besides even if he dont get hurt that doesnt change the fact we have other issues that need to be addressed and HAVE BEEN NEEDING TO BE ADDRESSED for years and we cant address them properly cause we invested so much on ONE player, oh another example of bad spending, Injury prone (I speak of anthony gonzalez) oh and Kerry Collins, although I dont blame him for any of this he tried to do what he was asked to do it just wasnt going to happen, I dont understand resigning mid thirty year old players to millions and millions of dollars just to see them retire within a couple years, Thank you Peyton for being the leader and cornerstone of the colts for the last 14 years we appreciate all you have done on and off the field, but even he has to wonder what could have been if we had a better defense, Id let Bracket go we got a solid starter in Angerer, Leffedged only thinks with half of his brain out on the field let him go, returning them kickoffs 6 and 7 yards deep in the end zone is unacceptable, I was watching Colts Up Close one week and they had an offensive linemen on their I forget who unfortunately he was, a backup I believe who said he got a chuckle with another player cause he missed a block and Painter got blasted, yeah let him go, KEEP SHELTON, we NEED a fullback we need to make sure we stick to the run to throw people off, and did anyone notice with him blocking we could run the ball, dallas clark can go, we got Tamme, antonio johnson good bye and are you serious, justin snow good bye, curtis painter gone we have dan orlovsky he showed a suitable backup who could start on a couple teams, washington and seattle come to mind till a big time talent came in.. what do you all think

I think that is the largest run on sentence that I have ever read.

[buccolts]

Everyone on here is talking this and talking that, this player did this and that player did that. Look, what weapons are we going to have on offense? We have no RB's, we don't have a #1 WR under contract and our TE is done. You guys can all scream we need Luck but the fact remains we need numerous draft picks and the only way to get that is keep Manning and trade that #1 pick. Sure, we lose a top QB but we need a lot of pieces to fix this team. This team needs a housing edition not a 12 acre farm out in the middle of no where. Wake up and quit drinking the we need this, "Water."

I can see your glass is half empty there, let me top that off for ya' :vomit:

[Fx Stryker]

It's an Offense league now. Pagano is a D guy. We started winning in Peyton's second season because the team was built to score.

I don't think you can win in this league with strictly a strong defense anymore. Not with the way the rules are set up.

So, what I'm saying is that if Pagano goes the Ravens route, concentrating on D and a conservative offense, it could be ugly for a while. But I don't think he would have brought Arians in if that were the case.

Ummmmmm, the 49ers and Giants may want a word with you.

[MAC]

#needmorecoffee

I can't stand Twitter, but I recognize that it's use of the "#" key serves a database organization purpose. Annoying but functional. But PLEASE don't tell me that "hashtags" are starting to enter the vernacular. The prospect makes me feel like vomiting. It would be nice if people tried to bring normal language usage into social media, instead of the other way around. This is not progress.

[shakedownstreet]

I can't stand Twitter, but I recognize that it's use of the "#" key serves a database organization purpose. Annoying but functional. But PLEASE don't tell me that "hashtags" are starting to enter the vernacular. The prospect makes me feel like vomiting. It would be nice if people tried to bring normal language usage into social media, instead of the other way around. This is not progress.

don't totally agree, but it's still funny

[Smonroe]

Ummmmmm, the 49ers and Giants may want a word with you.

What word would that be? Are you describing their playoff games with scores of 36-32 and 37-20?

I'm not going to argue with you, but it's pretty obvious to me that teams like the Ravens and Texans lost their playoff games because they didn't have the offenses. While a team like the Pats and even the Giants won their games because of their Offenses.

My point was that I doubt any team is ever going to win it with just a dominant defense and a mediocre offense, like the Ravens did 11 years ago.

[Fx Stryker]

What word would that be? Are you describing their playoff games with scores of 36-32 and 37-20?

I'm not going to argue with you, but it's pretty obvious to me that teams like the Ravens and Texans lost their playoff games because they didn't have the offenses. While a team like the Pats and even the Giants won their games because of their Offenses.

My point was that I doubt any team is ever going to win it with just a dominant defense and a mediocre offense, like the Ravens did 11 years ago.

The Ravens almost did it this year. If Lee Evans didn't have a brain fart they would've been in the Super Bowl.

[oldunclemark]

If you play in a cold weather city and happen to have bad weather on Sunday, there are just as many that don't play in cold weather in Dec & Jan as those who do. Teams with good defenses aren't reliant on the weather to give them an edge a couple games a year.

You dont mean to say that the offense does not have a big advantage playing indoors, do you..

That's an arguement you cant win.

[funktacious2]

.... and it's a total disaster, how long do you think Pagano can last? What if we go winless in his first season? Then what? Not saying that this will happen but there has to be a chance that Grigson and Pagano lay an egg this first year.

Sure we could suck, not saying that is very likely, but you never know, but we could also be really good, who knows?

[oldunclemark]

Ummmmmm, the 49ers and Giants may want a word with you.

The 49ers couldnt stop the Giants offense in a driving rainstorm...

the NYGs were not a dominant defensive team

[Smonroe]

I can't stand Twitter, but I recognize that it's use of the "#" key serves a database organization purpose. Annoying but functional. But PLEASE don't tell me that "hashtags" are starting to enter the vernacular. The prospect makes me feel like vomiting. It would be nice if people tried to bring normal language usage into social media, instead of the other way around. This is not progress.

Did you ever see the movie Idiocracy? We're on our way...

[Portage Coltfans]

Did you ever see the movie Idiocracy? We're on our way...

so you must have 8 kids? ;)

[IndyD4U]

I can't stand Twitter, but I recognize that it's use of the "#" key serves a database organization purpose. Annoying but functional. But PLEASE don't tell me that "hashtags" are starting to enter the vernacular. The prospect makes me feel like vomiting. It would be nice if people tried to bring normal language usage into social media, instead of the other way around. This is not progress.

#angrycoltfan

[Smonroe]

so you must have 8 kids? ;)

I have to admit, that's a good one. (Man, I hope I'm not coming off like that though)

[Portage Coltfans]

I have to admit, that's a good one. (Man, I hope I'm not coming off like that though)

you set me up, thanks for not taking it seriously

[MR. Blueblood]

You dont mean to say that the offense does not have a big advantage playing indoors, do you..

That's an arguement you cant win.

I never said that it didn't help an offense, don't know where you made that leap from. Weren't we talking about defense? If you wanna switch topics to try to gain favor or "win" an argument then I can do it too.

You don't think the sky isn't blue do you?

That's an argument you can't win either.

[Ohio Colt]

I'll laugh because that is laughable comparison. Couch may physically remind you of Couch, but Couch was no where near as good a college QB nor as good as an NFL QB prospect. Not even close.

You're wrong in some respects though. Arm strength, build, size, mobility all very similar. Ask scouts. Where the difference is the offenses they ran in college and the intelligence factor.

[MAC]

You're wrong in some respects though. Arm strength, build, size, mobility all very similar. Ask scouts. Where the difference is the offenses they ran in college and the intelligence factor.

I recall Couch as being skinny, so I just looked him up. His pro weight looks 10 pounds less than Luck is now. There goes the build and size comparisons. I also don't recall him being noted for his mobility in the slightest. What scouts are you on speaking terms with?

[GoColts8818]

Well it sounds like Irsay is making the call on who we draft with the top pick and what to do with Peyton so if we bone this up it'll be his fault. With that said you can't fire the owner so Pags and Grigson will take the blame.

As for how long he'll last? I'd say Pags will get at least three years with the Colts. I think Irsay knows going in this is a rebuilding project that they aren't going to fix things over night.

With the fans, well with some fans if we cut Peyton the team is going to be fighting up hill from that point and I am sure some will be done with them after the first loss. Other thans will probably stick to two to three years.

[UndecidedFrog]

I recall Couch as being skinny, so I just looked him up. His pro weight looks 10 pounds less than Luck is now. There goes the build and size comparisons. I also don't recall him being noted for his mobility in the slightest. What scouts are you on speaking terms with?

Tim Couch Combine results (1999):

6'4", 225 lbs

40 yd dash: 5.08 seconds

Vertical leap: 31 inches

20 yd shuttle: 4.34 seconds

Broad jump: NA

http://nflcombineres...&l=Couch&i=5119

Andrew Luck Combine results (2012):

6'4", 234 lbs

40 yd dash: 4.67 seconds

Vertical leap: 36 inches

20 yd shuttle: 4.28 seconds

Broad jump: 10'4"

http://nflcombineres...w&l=Luck&i=8694