To get an idea of QB's that get a lot of help from the rest of the team, have a look at this

[IcyRhythms]

Everyone is going to have their own idea of what makes who the best at different positions, but this list is still relevant in early 2018.

 

[Smonroe]

The resolution on that table is so bad I can’t read it on my iPad.  Is there a link?

[PeterBowman]

Puts it into perspective doesn't it

[richard pallo]

It looks to me like we could be in for a great run if Andrew is healthy and our defense moves into the top third of the league. 

[The Fish]

Some of those guys never have to prove that they can do it without help though. 

If anything that just reminds me how individually talented Peyton in his prime was.

[Valpo2004]

Never seen that table before.  

 

Biggest problem I see is there is a big difference between the 16th ranked defense and the 32nd ranked defense.  

[Smoke317]

Seems like the “Greatest GM of All Time” Polian actually did Peyton a disservice by letting too many defensive playmakers walk and focusing too much on paying & drafting offense...  A little in Polian’s defense (pun intended) Colonel Bob Sanders’ inability to stay healthy played a big factor in that though.  He was every running back’s nightmare when they came through a hole in the line.  Bob turned very rb into a tip toe burglar.  Knees were in jeopardy every carry you got...

[SteelCityColt]

12 hours ago, Smonroe said:

The resolution on that table is so bad I can’t read it on my iPad.  Is there a link?

 

12 hours ago, PeterBowman said:

Puts it into perspective doesn't it

 

Apparently it doesn’t for some 

[SteelCityColt]

1 hour ago, Valpo2004 said:

Never seen that table before.  

 

Biggest problem I see is there is a big difference between the 16th ranked defense and the 32nd ranked defense.  

 

You could argue that without any numerical data that the difference between 31-32 could be greater than 16-32 in a single season. What it’s driving at is a hard and fast proxy for “average” D. It’s not the worst way as it will encounter for any league wide outliers (rule changes etc.).

[aaron11]

not sure what im supposed to take away from this

 

peyton won a lot of games with good and bad defenses

 

luck played in a really weak divison his first three years

 

brady hasnt had that many chances to play with bad defenses 

[SteelCityColt]

It would also be interesting to look at this table based on running game. 

[Smonroe]

Finally could make out that table.  It’s a good argument for Peyton being the GOAT, no matter what TB12 has done.   

[tikyle]

39 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

not sure what im supposed to take away from this

 

peyton won a lot of games with good and bad defenses

 

luck played in a really weak divison his first three years

 

brady hasnt had that many chances to play with bad defenses 

 

The takeaway is that the Colts haven't had many top half of the league defenses for over a decade now and that is poor roster management at it's finest. 

[aaron11]

3 minutes ago, tikyle said:

 

The takeaway is that the Colts haven't had many top half of the league defenses for over a decade now and that is poor roster management at it's finest. 

didnt need this chart to know that we have had bad defenses

 

 

[tikyle]

Just now, aaron11 said:

didnt need this chart to know that we have had bad defenses

 

 

 

Touche'

[WoolMagnet]

2 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

Never seen that table before.  

 

Biggest problem I see is there is a big difference between the 16th ranked defense and the 32nd ranked defense.  

That fact makes Peyton look even more God-like.

 

peyton had some defenses here that were pretty bad.  

He had to score points everytime he took ched the ball.

 

peyton had 5 times the number of games (in this scenario) with "bad defenses" (93 vs 19) than Brady, while he won 9 times the post season games under the same circumstances.  Even at home (which they usually are) for playoff games, Brady was only able to win 1 game.

 

but yes, this chart CLEARLY shows that defenses make good QBs better, while 1 QB clearly stands above when challenged with a suspect (16 or worse scoring) defense.

 

but yea, get Andrew some help on D.

anybody know where we ranked this year?

[18Manning]

22 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

Finally could make out that table.  It’s a good argument for Peyton being the GOAT, no matter what TB12 has done.   

 

Debated with my father-in-law about this last night. Forget even calling him the GOAT (though, I think so). Peyton, IMO, is one of, if not the most single impactful player to ever play the game. Take Peyton out of the game, and the team (Colts or Broncos) went from contender to bottom of the pile. However, I will concede, Denver's D was key to winning against the Panthers. Imagine Peyton with a good all-around team for his entire career. 

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

Never seen that table before.  

 

Biggest problem I see is there is a big difference between the 16th ranked defense and the 32nd ranked defense.  

 

Its 16th....    OR WORSE.

 

[Valpo2004]

12 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Its 16th....    OR WORSE.

 

 

I know, but it's basically a table to tell you who has always had an above average defense and who hasn't.  

 

But someone on there who's defenses have hung between 16 and 20 isn't as impressive as someone who's defenses have been between 25 and 32.  So the table is limiting because it's creating one line.  

[Valpo2004]

1 hour ago, 18Manning said:

 

Debated with my father-in-law about this last night. Forget even calling him the GOAT (though, I think so). Peyton, IMO, is one of, if not the most single impactful player to ever play the game. Take Peyton out of the game, and the team (Colts or Broncos) went from contender to bottom of the pile. However, I will concede, Denver's D was key to winning against the Panthers. Imagine Peyton with a good all-around team for his entire career. 

 

I like Peyton but I still believe Dan Marino is the GOAT.  Dude put up numbers that are considered a good to great season today except he was doing it in the 1980's.  

 

In 1984 Marino puts up 5,084 passing yards and becomes the first QB to put up 5,000 passing yards.  That feat is not repeated until 24 years later in 2008 and that number was 5,069 by Drew Brees.  Then it takes another 3 years until 2011 for his record to be broken.  

 

 

[MB-ColtsFan]

3 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

I like Peyton but I still believe Dan Marino is the GOAT.  Dude put up numbers that are considered a good to great season today except he was doing it in the 1980's.  

 

In 1984 Marino puts up 5,084 passing yards and becomes the first QB to put up 5,000 passing yards.  That feat is not repeated until 24 years later in 2008 and that number was 5,069 by Drew Brees.  Then it takes another 3 years until 2011 for his record to be broken.  

 

 

And Marino did that in the era where defenses were still allowed to clutch and grab WR's wherever they were on the field.  He was able to make throws with pinpoint accuracy in tight spaces.  The guy was truly amazing.

[NewColtsFan]

20 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

I know, but it's basically a table to tell you who has always had an above average defense and who hasn't.  

 

But someone on there who's defenses have hung between 16 and 20 isn't as impressive as someone who's defenses have been between 25 and 32.  So the table is limiting because it's creating one line.  

 

Remember...    all of these seasons these defenses were ranked between 16 and 32.    It'd be nice to have more details, but generally speaking it makes a point....

 

Some QBs had more support than others.

 

Some had a LOT more support.

 

[The Peytonator]

GOAT is a subjective opinion based argument, but the fact is it’s P freaking Money and any evidence to the contrary is fake news propagated by the liberal media. 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

All I got from this is that we need to draft a RB at 3rd overall. 

[Valpo2004]

39 minutes ago, MB-ColtsFan said:

 

And Marino did that in the era where defenses were still allowed to clutch and grab WR's wherever they were on the field.  He was able to make throws with pinpoint accuracy in tight spaces.  The guy was truly amazing.

 

Exactly my thought.  His numbers where way ahead of the time.

 

You look at the fellow HOF'ers from his draft class.  John Elway and Jim Kelly.  John Elway threw for 4000 or more yards one season in his entire career.  Jim Kelly never threw for 4000 or more yards in a single season.  

 

John Elway had a passer rating of 90 or above for the first time in 1993 after 10 years in the NFL.  

 

Jim Kelly does it in 1990 after 5 years in the NFL.  (He was in the USFL before that)

 

Dan Marino does it his rookie year.  

 

Marino played 1 more year then Elway.  In his career he has roughly 10,000 more yards, 120 more TD's and only 26 more Int's.  

 

With most great QB's from that era you can look at their stats and say that those stats wouldn't be tolerated from a starter in the modern NFL.  Of course we also understand there is a reason their stats are lower.  But Dan Marino is a guy who you could look at and say that a player with those stats could still start in the modern NFL.  

[gnet550]

Luck already ahead of Brady on a list....Tommy is a great QB, but I think it always underrated how much his defense has helped him.  Usually in the playoffs the running game is solid for them as well.  Not to mention he had Vinny and now Gastkowski who never miss a kick in the playoffs...Peyton had Mike Vandershank...I believe if the Patriots had Manning and the Colts had Brady, the Colts never would have sniffed a Super Bowl and the Patriots probably would have 8 or so titles.

[shasta519]

It's a bit misleading...because the NYG defense got hot in both of Eli's Super Bowl runs. Same with Peyton and the Colts.

[DalTXColtsFan]

Playing devil's advocate, the 2006 defense was historically horrible in the regular season, but somehow flipped a switch and was historically AWESOME in the playoffs.  That's 4 of Peyton's wins right there.

 

Now how many times did Brady, Montana, Young, Roethlesberger et al have defenses that were top 10 scoring defenses during the RS that suddenly played like banana dung in the playoffs, and the QB had to play like a god to carry his team to a win?  That I don't know.