Can We Turn This Offense Around For 2012?

[likm]

I have gathered info from all the posters here on several topics and if were right the Colts offense can be good again by adding 5 players. Two offensive linemen, WR, TE and Luck. If this holds true we could get this offense turned around this year. Drafting or acquiring 2 O-linemen and a blocking tight end could solidify the blocking and improve our run game while also giving our QB time to throw the ball down the field.

Acquiring 5 replacement players this year should not be impossible with all of our draft picks, a couple of free agents and maybe a UDFA.

I dont think its going to take years of rebuilding for us to compete as many seem to believe.

Would you add any other positions we need to fill or upgrade? Let me know what u think. Thanks

[Phil J]

like you said, upgrades to every position on the oline, a WR (in the later rounds) to replace Reggie, and then some help on the D, especially CB.

[Coffeedrinker]

I have gathered info from all the posters here on several topics and if were right the Colts offense can be good again by adding 5 players. Two offensive linemen, WR, TE and Luck. If this holds true we could get this offense turned around this year. Drafting or acquiring 2 O-linemen and a blocking tight end could solidify the blocking and improve our run game while also giving our QB time to throw the ball down the field.

Acquiring 5 replacement players this year should not be impossible with all of our draft picks, a couple of free agents and maybe a UDFA.

I dont think its going to take years of rebuilding for us to compete as many seem to believe.

Would you add any other positions we need to fill or upgrade? Let me know what u think. Thanks

If you listen to the posters on this forum about what needs to be fixed then the colts need:

QB - Either to replace Manning or back-up

RB - Because Addai, Brown and Carter are no good

FB - Because the Colts need to use a FB more

TE - Because Clark is too injury prone and no one else is any good

WR - Wayne is old, Garcon as stone hands, Collie is one hit away from being out of the NFL (of course that applies to every player but it sounds more intelligent when it's applied to Collie), Gonzo is never on the field.

OTs - Because AC is over-rated and Ijalana is oft injured

OG - They are all bad

Center - Because Saturday isn't getting any younger.

DE - Mathis is a FA, Hughes is a bust and Freeney is overpaid

DT - Again none are any good, except for Nevis who is oft injured

OLB - Wouldn't even be water boys on other teams

MIKE - Brackett is old and Angerer can only make tackles 5 yards down the field

CBs - Everyone gives 12 yard cushions and then run backwards.

Safety - My grandmother could play better than any safety not named Bethea and he only looks good because the rest of the secondary is so bad.

K - AV isn't getting any younger and wilkl cost the Colts like $3 million

P - Okay, well the Colts can keep the punter

LS - How much longer is the team going to waster a roster spot on a long snapper like Snow.

So, if the Colts do all that then Pagano's teaching and Arians' offensive magic can make the Colts contenders again.

[ruksak]

I don't like us yet again investing our draft picks in O-lineman. Among one of the hardest positions to properly scout, we've gone through too many of our picks in recent years trying to solidify our line, Including two high end picks last year. I would be more comfortable if they would seek out a few guys in FA.

[ruksak]

If you listen to the posters on this forum about what needs to be fixed then the colts need:

QB - Either to replace Manning or back-up

RB - Because Addai, Brown and Carter are no good

FB - Because the Colts need to use a FB more

TE - Because Clark is too injury prone and no one else is any good

WR - Wayne is old, Garcon as stone hands, Collie is one hit away from being out of the NFL (of course that applies to every player but it sounds more intelligent when it's applied to Collie), Gonzo is never on the field.

OTs - Because AC is over-rated and Ijalana is oft injured

OG - They are all bad

Center - Because Saturday isn't getting any younger.

DE - Mathis is a FA, Hughes is a bust and Freeney is overpaid

DT - Again none are any good, except for Nevis who is oft injured

OLB - Wouldn't even be water boys on other teams

MIKE - Brackett is old and Angerer can only make tackles 5 yards down the field

CBs - Everyone gives 12 yard cushions and then run backwards.

Safety - My grandmother could play better than any safety not named Bethea and he only looks good because the rest of the secondary is so bad.

K - AV isn't getting any younger and wilkl cost the Colts like $3 million

P - Okay, well the Colts can keep the punter

LS - How much longer is the team going to waster a roster spot on a long snapper like Snow.

So, if the Colts do all that then Pagano's teaching and Arians' offensive magic can make the Colts contenders again.

Is it possible for us to draft a new team? lol.....

[Smonroe]

If you listen to the posters on this forum about what needs to be fixed then the colts need:

QB - Either to replace Manning or back-up

RB - Because Addai, Brown and Carter are no good

FB - Because the Colts need to use a FB more

TE - Because Clark is too injury prone and no one else is any good

WR - Wayne is old, Garcon as stone hands, Collie is one hit away from being out of the NFL (of course that applies to every player but it sounds more intelligent when it's applied to Collie), Gonzo is never on the field.

OTs - Because AC is over-rated and Ijalana is oft injured

OG - They are all bad

Center - Because Saturday isn't getting any younger.

DE - Mathis is a FA, Hughes is a bust and Freeney is overpaid

DT - Again none are any good, except for Nevis who is oft injured

OLB - Wouldn't even be water boys on other teams

MIKE - Brackett is old and Angerer can only make tackles 5 yards down the field

CBs - Everyone gives 12 yard cushions and then run backwards.

Safety - My grandmother could play better than any safety not named Bethea and he only looks good because the rest of the secondary is so bad.

K - AV isn't getting any younger and wilkl cost the Colts like $3 million

P - Okay, well the Colts can keep the punter

LS - How much longer is the team going to waster a roster spot on a long snapper like Snow.

So, if the Colts do all that then Pagano's teaching and Arians' offensive magic can make the Colts contenders again.

Yeah, but besides that, we're good. Right?

[Coltswarriors]

There is no way we're as bad as we were last season. Whether we have Luck/Manning or Luck & Manning, the offense will be improved.

[likm]

There is no way we're as bad as we were last season. Whether we have Luck/Manning or Luck & Manning, the offense will be improved.

I hear ya...........it can not gut any worse. I believe it can be pretty good with O-line upgraded. We have some weapons.

[Coffeedrinker]

Yeah, but besides that, we're good. Right?

Yup. If it wasn't for those players the Colts would be in the Superbowl.

In all seriousness the Colts on O need:

A starting guard (draft). (This is assuming AC and Ijalana are the starting tackles and Saturday retires and Pollack moves to Center)

A back-up QB (draft)- I still contend that if the Colts would have had average QB play and an average DC the Colts would have been a 6 to 9 win team last season.

A more reliable number 2 than Garcon (I think that is Collie)

On D, if they switch to a 3-4 hybrid D they will need

A NT (draft and not D. Poe)

A run stuffing OLB (free agent) J. Johnson would be perfect

I know a lot of people will say CB and safety. But I really liked what I saw out of Rucker and KT last year, it will be interesting to see what Pagano thinks of them. And I will be interested in both Lefeged and Caldwell this year. Caldwell was great in run support, lacking against the pass and Lefeged was good against the pass but weak in run support. If either of them improved in the weak area they would be a good safety.

So yeah 5 new starters for the team is doable in one off season.

[likm]

Yup. If it wasn't for those players the Colts would be in the Superbowl.

In all seriousness the Colts on O need:

A starting guard (draft). (This is assuming AC and Ijalana are the starting tackles and Saturday retires and Pollack moves to Center)

A back-up QB (draft)- I still contend that if the Colts would have had average QB play and an average DC the Colts would have been a 6 to 9 win team last season.

A more reliable number 2 than Garcon (I think that is Collie)

On D, if they switch to a 3-4 hybrid D they will need

A NT (draft and not D. Poe)

A run stuffing OLB (free agent) J. Johnson would be perfect

I know a lot of people will say CB and safety. But I really liked what I saw out of Rucker and KT last year, it will be interesting to see what Pagano thinks of them. And I will be interested in both Lefeged and Caldwell this year. Caldwell was great in run support, lacking against the pass and Lefeged was good against the pass but weak in run support. If either of them improved in the weak area they would be a good safety.

So yeah 5 new starters for the team is doable in one off season.

Back up QB? I thought Dan was the back-up. Are you saying we need 2 QB's picked up?

By the way were not on the Defense yet..........although I do appreciate er iniative. I was gonna start on the D soon but I have to gather everyones opinions on D-line, secondary and backers.

Thanks cd.

[Wyld1]

If Indy had an adequate back up QB who knew the system this would have been a .500 team. It starts and ends there for immeadiate improvement ;)

[Coffeedrinker]

Back up QB? I thought Dan was the back-up. Are you saying we need 2 QB's picked up?

Dan Orlovsky is a stop gap. He improved towards the end of the year but the fact is he's like 2-10 as a starter in the NFL after 7 years in the league. The Colts need a back-up. If Manning is healthy that is Luck or RGIII. If Manning is not healthy than that is some 3rd through 7th round pick.

By the way were not on the Defense yet..........although I do appreciate er iniative. I was gonna start on the D soon but I have to gather everyones opinions on D-line, secondary and backers.

Thanks cd.

I'm on the D. I don't think 5 O players need to be replaced nor do I think having 5 new starters on O and then several new starters on D is the formula for a winning team in 2012.

[likm]

Dan Orlovsky is a stop gap. He improved towards the end of the year but the fact is he's like 2-10 as a starter in the NFL after 7 years in the league. The Colts need a back-up. If Manning is healthy that is Luck or RGIII. If Manning is not healthy than that is some 3rd through 7th round pick.

I'm on the D. I don't think 5 O players need to be replaced nor do I think having 5 new starters on O and then several new starters on D is the formula for a winning team in 2012.

I get what er saying about Dan but we cant afford to spend 2 picks on QB's. Dan has never really had a chance to play with a decent team so I believe he will be given a chance here and will be the back up to Luck.

Whats the formula stick with the players we have?

[jemack]

I personally believe last years team lacked discipline more than talent (except at Qb). And I blame that on poor coaching. If the Colts can get close to playing mistake free football as in the past, 30 to 40% of last years futilities vanish.

[atapcl]

If we resign Garcon, sign Ben Grubbs, and draft a good center then we have a chance with Luck or Peyton in fielding a top ten offense in 2012. The problem is not in how many new starters you have but in how many rookies have to start. The more rookies you have the more mistakes your offense will make. If we could get Ben Grubbs on offense and Carlos Rogers on defense we upgrade both areas with experience. The rookies will form the backbone for future success. The second round pick is critical for drafting a NT. If a starter at NT is found with the 2nd pick and Rogers is signed as a starter at CB then the Colts could field a top 10 defense. David Caldwell and Joe Lefeged must improve in the secondary. Fili Moala, Jamal Anderson, and Ricardo Matthews can compete to start at DEs. If Freeney can not move to LB he can be a situational pass rusher.The Colts have already brought in 4 new linebacker prospects to make a strong position stronger. Add Mathis and Hughes to the LB group and it might be the greatest collection of LBs the Colts have had. Freeney, Mathis, Hughes, Anderson, Angerer, Freeman, Moala, Nevis, and several others in the front seven of the defense have freakish athletic ability that must be harnesed in the most efficient way to form a top 10 defense. Garcon, Collie, Brown, and Carter are freak athletes on offense.

[Fireman818]

Were going to lose too much this year to continue to be productive offensively in the near furture. Probable gone, Wayne, Manning, Saturday, Addai, Clark, Garcon if he thinks he deserves big money, Diem. Thats a lot to lose and continue to produce. There's a lot of holes to plug there. I would rather bring Wallace over from the Steelers than keep Garcon. Whoever plays QB is going to take a beating and were not going to be able to run the ball so there going to play defenses to force us to pass.

[likm]

Were going to lose too much this year to continue to be productive offensively in the near furture. Probable gone, Wayne, Manning, Saturday, Addai, Clark, Garcon if he thinks he deserves big money, Diem. Thats a lot to lose and continue to produce. There's a lot of holes to plug there. I would rather bring Wallace over from the Steelers than keep Garcon. Whoever plays QB is going to take a beating and were not going to be able to run the ball so there going to play defenses to force us to pass.

I think we lose Manning and maybe Wayne. Losing Diem probably would not kill us but the rest stay I believe.

[coltnorth]

Were going to lose too much this year to continue to be productive offensively in the near furture. Probable gone, Wayne, Manning, Saturday, Addai, Clark, Garcon if he thinks he deserves big money, Diem. Thats a lot to lose and continue to produce. There's a lot of holes to plug there. I would rather bring Wallace over from the Steelers than keep Garcon. Whoever plays QB is going to take a beating and were not going to be able to run the ball so there going to play defenses to force us to pass.

I would be surprised if Garcon finds any "big money". He hasn't been consistant enough. He makes some amazing plays then drops very easy passes. He might develop into an elite receiver but he's not there yet. Vincent Jackson, DeShawn Jackson, Stevie Johnson, and the Saints receivers are all free agents and should end up in front of garcon. I agree Wayne is gone, Manning might be and if that happens maybe Saturday too. I think Addai stays and becomes a third down kind of back. Our O line should be improved so we might be able to run. Could be a surprisingly decent offence with a good WR draft pick.

[CR91]

our problem on offense wasnt lack of talent. it was lack of execution. the coaches were trying to hard too run the same plays peyton would get and that wasnt working with the qbs we had playing for us. once we simplified the offense and called more high percentage plays our offense played better.

[atapcl]

Signing Wallace will be difficult. Wallace is a restricted FA. Even if the Colts sign him they might have to give up a first round pick. The 2012 draft has too many good recievers to give up a first for Wallace. Garcon has earned a pay raise. Maybe he would sign for 3 million a year which is well below a franchise WR. The offense will not be as bad as some people think. The OL will be better with Ijalana and Costonzo. A new OL coach may be able to coach up a couple players. "The Colts may draft OL and bring in an OL free agent. Collie may be better as a split end instead of a slot receiver. Luck and or Peyton will be better at QB than any of the 3 from last year. Donald Brown and Delone Carter will both be improved with a FB in the backfield. The offense will definitely be better and with a couple of good players added could be top 10.

[Kirie89]

I believe that with most of the players back from last season and injury-free, the offense will only require Luck and an OG to be good. If you think a little to the future and/or will have not just a good, but a great offense (or several of the players don’t come back) it will take a few more players: TE, WR, C, OG and maybe a RB.

[21isSuperman]

If Peyton comes back healthy, our offense will be instantly better. Peyton has a history of making the players around him better. With Luck, it's harder to predict, but the offense last season was pretty bad, so it isn't too much of a stretch so say it will be better next year

[The Peytonator]

People always seem to think you need all pros at every single position on the field in order to be a contender. There's not a single team in the league that is 'set' with every roster spot. Of course there are spots that could be upgraded on both sides of the ball. That doesn't mean we can't be a competitive team with many of the guys we have.

This teams roster ain't much different than it was a couple years ago when we started out 14-0. Obviously you can always get better players in some way, but I hardly think we are in a 'rebuilding' phase. This team would have been an average, .500 team last year, with competent QB play. A dinosaur, a guy that should be Painting houses for a living, and a guy who started out his career 0-18, do not make for 'competent' quarterback play.

....and that is my piece.

[schwamm]

I would be surprised if Garcon finds any "big money". He hasn't been consistant enough. He makes some amazing plays then drops very easy passes. He might develop into an elite receiver but he's not there yet. Vincent Jackson, DeShawn Jackson, Stevie Johnson, and the Saints receivers are all free agents and should end up in front of garcon. I agree Wayne is gone, Manning might be and if that happens maybe Saturday too. I think Addai stays and becomes a third down kind of back. Our O line should be improved so we might be able to run. Could be a surprisingly decent offence with a good WR draft pick.

Don't forget the $$$ paid to Braylon "what is a route?" Edwards. Maybe I'm a homer, but Garcon > Edwards (by a mile).

[Superman]

I think Addai stays and becomes a third down kind of back.

I don't get why we'd pay $5 million for a third down back. I like Addai, but I think he absolutely has to go.

[Superman]

Don't forget the $$$ paid to Braylon "what is a route?" Edwards. Maybe I'm a homer, but Garcon > Edwards (by a mile).

Yeah, I think you might be a bit of a homer. I'm not necessarily a Braylon fan, but he's gotten a bad rap from the media the last two years. His drops are way down, and he's shown the ability to produce significantly more than Garcon has. I wouldn't rather have Braylon, considering all his issues, but pound for pound, I think he's a better receiver.

[Colten18]

I think our offense has a good chance at a turn around. Still plenty of weapons at receiver (Hopeful for Garcon re-signing and a healthy Collie and Clark) Weve always had O-Line shuffle/replacement issues. And weve never really dominated anyone with our running game but its been sufficient enough even during the Manning years.

[doc108]

No you are pretty bad. Luck will be thrust into an absolutely awful situation.

[BleedingBlue]

a Blackmon or a Calvin Johnson at WR, a Fleener or a Gronk at TE. a Revis at corner that allows us to play man. a FA G or T that has experience. A Trent Richardson at RB.

We can never fill all these holes in a year.

[chad72]

For offense, this is what I think we need:

1) I'd draft with this thought process. If we get great value on a right tackle prospect (easier to accomplish than value on a left tackle when your first pick will likely be QB), try Ijalana at guard, IMO. I think Ijalana is athletic enough to play right tackle and big enough to play one of the guard positions, IMO. He has long arms to handle stunts and hopefully one more year of strength training will help his second year production.

2) This draft is deep with good WRs, so is the free agent market. However, I'd rather play free agency for the OG position that is harder to transition to at the NFL level than the WR position. But we do need a good No.2. Let me give you a name in the free agent market that might be off the radar for a lot of you folks but I think is a good route runner and manages to get open a lot of times. His name is Laurent Robinson of the Cowboys. We should be able to get him with a reasonable offer and he will definitely thrive as a No.2 or No.3, IMO. That is, only if we are letting go of Wayne or Garcon, which I think would be a mistake.

3) I would not worry about the receiving TE position and just maybe get a blocking TE late in the draft.

Most importantly, we could use playcalling improvements as well. 4 WR formations instead of 3 WR, 1 TE, and going with empty backfield with 6 O-linemen or having 6 O-linemen with an RB to generate play action results off running plays, things like those I would like to see.

[Fireman818]

I don't see our O-line being any better and I don't see Brown and Addai being the answer at RB so I don't know how our running game can be any better but someone that can pass the ball might help but whose he going to throw it too. Collie is a Slot receiver, he has trouble getting off the line in press coverage so you can't move him to the outside. Garcon, I hope were not counting on him. He's probable a #3 WR at best. Lets face it, we need a lot of skill position guys and there not coming without picks. We need Manning to restructure come back healthy and trade that #1 pick. It only makes since. If you could do a deal to get Richardson and Blackmon then we could do something, lol.

[Warhorse]

I don't get why we'd pay $5 million for a third down back. I like Addai, but I think he absolutely has to go.

For one, if he had blocking, he might not get injured as much. Secondly, he is very good at reading blitzes and catches well out of the backfield. I could see him racking up 1400 yards behind the packers line. However, your point is taken. As RB's go with their ages, he has seen his best days. I met the kid in Portland Oregon. Really nice guy. Solid as a rock.

[doogansquest]

Short answer: If we have Manning, the offense will be top 5. If we don't, it will be terrible.

[Blue Horseshoe]

No you are pretty bad. Luck will be thrust into an absolutely awful situation.

No need to worry. The man walks on water and throws 99 yard touchdown passes to Jerry Rice receivers he creates from the soil with a mere gesture of his mighty hand. (At least that's what Kiper says).

[braveheartcolt]

Painter turned this Offense around many many times, and led them back towards the bench.....

[braveheartcolt]

Short answer: If we have Manning, the offense will be top 5. If we don't, it will be terrible.

Shorter answer: You know nothing of the kind.

[Superman]

For one, if he had blocking, he might not get injured as much. Secondly, he is very good at reading blitzes and catches well out of the backfield. I could see him racking up 1400 yards behind the packers line. However, your point is taken. As RB's go with their ages, he has seen his best days. I met the kid in Portland Oregon. Really nice guy. Solid as a rock.

No such thing as a one-back system anymore. You can have three serviceable backs for half the price, and taking a Moneyball approach, recreate the benefit that a player like Addai gives you when healthy (which he hasn't been three of the last four years). Brown is a decent runner and receiver out of the backfield; Carter is a decent runner and does an okay job blocking; Darren Spann is a decent runner and receiver. We can sign a second tier free agent who does a good job pass blocking.

People put a high premium on Addai's ability to block out of the backfield (which he got better at every year, and he's one of the best at it). But there's more than one way to skin a cat. Manning liked having a back pick up blitzes, but that's not the only way to protect a quarterback. If we improve our offensive line and get a tight end who can stay healthy and help with protections, then the need for a high level pass blocking back essentially goes away. And if we're moving to Luck at quarterback, who is much more mobile than Manning, he'll be able to get away from late breaking pressures or unblocked defenders.

But all that being the case, what it really boils down to for me is that no back is worth $5 million a year, not unless he's absolutely a top five back and can play every down. But with so much passing, that really doesn't apply to anyone anymore. Even Adrian Peterson, to me unquestionably the best back out there, isn't an every down player, and I honestly would have let him walk rather than signing him for $100 million. I said that before he got hurt.

Some free agent ideas: LaDanian Tomlinson, Chester Taylor, Mewelde Moore, Jacob Hester. All veteran backs that won't be looking for a lot of money, and can do a good job in pass protection. Addai, at this point, is very replaceable.