Mike & Mike Comments On The Colts First Game

[BProland85]

7 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

 

What the hell is Ballard waiting for then? He did nothing to address this during the off-season. The OL is worse than it has ever been. 

 

He wasn't counting on Clark totally bombing in OTAs and training camp. If he saw that coming he probably would have brought in more help at OL. And Banner was just a bad pick by the suggestion of Philbin. 

[ThaCaliColt]

this team needs leaders on both sides of the ball. They certainly aren't going to get much from this coaching staff...I like the emotion that Morrison seems to project on the field, but he like many others are just too raw and they don't appear to be getting the right coaching or direction they need. I feel like this team is a collection of random pieces that no one in the organization has much of any idea how to use or maximize.

[NewColtsFan]

On 9/11/2017 at 5:53 PM, BProland85 said:

 

He wasn't counting on Clark totally bombing in OTAs and training camp. If he saw that coming he probably would have brought in more help at OL. And Banner was just a bad pick by the suggestion of Philbin. 

 

The pick wasn't a suggestion of Philbin's.     Philbin approved the pick,  but it wasn't his idea.    The scouts were on him and Ballard liked him and Philbin signed off.      That's the way it worked.

 

And we don't know why Banner was cut.     For all we know, he was cut because he didn't lose enough (any?) weight.   There are numerous reasons why he could've been cut.     He's not the first 4th round draft pick to be cut.

 

[akcolt]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

The pick wasn't a suggestion of Philbin's.     Philbin approved the pick,  but it wasn't his idea.    The scouts were on him and Ballard liked him and Philbin signed off.      That's the way it worked.

 

And we don't know why Banner was cut.     For all we know, he was cut because he didn't lose enough (any?) weight.   There are numerous reasons why he could've been cut.     He's not the first 4th round draft pick to be cut.

 

He wasn't cut because we didn't do our homework. Philbin and Ballard both flew west to meet him face to face before the draft. I thought his weight might be a problem after you posted the yearly summer weight updates. I remember Banner's number jumping out at me. PFF ranked him 188th out of 192 graded T's in run blocking this preseason. That was thought to be his strength. He did have the 9th best pass blocking grade but it's not a big secret speed rushers would give him problems.

 

He was considered a boom or bust selection expected to need a red shirt year. I think that piece got lost when the staff gave him a look vs the 1's. I wasn't thrilled with the pick when we made it. That was the first head scratcher of Ballard's reign for me. I'm not sure if we tried to get him to the PS or not. I liked Banner he seemed like a good guy but I'm not sure he'd have been a good T. I wish him luck keeping his weight straight and making a go of it in Cleveland.

 

That's a franchise I think most fans would like to see have some success. The Dog Pound, Brian Sipe and the Kardiac Kids, Kosar's gracefulness. Cleveland's a football town a great place to play if they can just be competitive. Eric Metcalf helped me to one of my first fantasy titles his rookie year. A chance on Metcalf and a 2nd year WR up in GB Sterling Sharpe paid big dividends. That was back when fantasy football took more than $20 for a couple of cheat sheets. Anyway as you said who knows it wasn't the first and won't be the last 4th rounder to not make a roster. It is a bit surprising it happened with our OL. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Greeny just said he was wrong and talked to Luck's agent. That Luck isn't going anywhere, Luck is happy here and Adam Schefter said the same thing. THERE IS NO STORY HERE. Thanks for the laughs ESPN.

[DougDew]

36 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Greeny just said he was wrong and talked to Luck's agent. That Luck isn't going anywhere, Luck is happy here and Adam Schefter said the same thing. THERE IS NO STORY HERE. Thanks for the laughs ESPN.

Evidence that people at ESPN feed the mouthpieces bad info.   They are a Fake Source.  Nothing sinister here, they probably just can't understand in their mind why somebody with the talent of Luck would want to languish in a small market on a team that isn't winning and shouldn't be demanding to get all that he "deserves" .  The viewpoint of the source influences the reporting.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, DougDew said:

Evidence that people at ESPN feed the mouthpieces bad info.   They are a Fake Source.  Nothing sinister here, they probably just can't understand in their mind why somebody with the talent of Luck would want to languish in a small market on a team that isn't winning and shouldn't be demanding to get all that he "deserves" . 

We have already proven we can win with Andrew in his first 3 years. I think a lot of ESPN people want to see us fail since Deflategate happened because they think it was a joke and they are east coast biased. Andrew is in the perfect spot here in Indy. He is a low key guy and treated like a God here, in a bigger market if he played bad he would get ripped to shreads.

[superrep1967]

On 9/11/2017 at 10:56 AM, csmopar said:

All I know is loud mouth Dakich is gonna go off today and I'm gonna listen to every bit lol.  Pagano should have been fired.  Hell, my daughter's teddy bear could coach better .  

 

 

and for the record, I was all for giving him a chance but if you can't even get the team you're playing name right, you have no business near a clipboard for any team

Yeah, the decisions he's made 14 yr old could have made better decisions. The decisions he's made not just during the game but many concerning this team have been mindless it's almost comical.  

[Yoshinator]

5 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We have already proven we can win with Andrew in his first 3 years. I think a lot of ESPN people want to see us fail since Deflategate happened because they think it was a joke and they are east coast biased. Andrew is in the perfect spot here in Indy. He is a low key guy and treated like a God here, in a bigger market if he played bad he would get ripped to shreads.

We won our 1st three years before the drafts from 2013 on completely destroyed our team. 2016 was all right, and 2017 is too be determined, but that three year span caught up to us and completely robbed us of any talent as other teams were gaining talent. The FA pickups weren't any better. This team is in arguably worse shape than those 1st three years unless the draft class and FA's step it up. It's another rebuild now. Luck also needs to get healthy.

[csmopar]

4 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

We won our 1st three years before the drafts from 2013 on completely destroyed our team. 2016 was all right, and 2017 is too be determined, but that three year span caught up to us and completely robbed us of any talent as other teams were gaining talent. The FA pickups weren't any better. This team is in arguably worse shape than those 1st three years unless the draft class and FA's step it up. It's another rebuild now. Luck also needs to get healthy.

EXACTLY, people need to understand that. but still the coaching decisions fall squarely on Pagano, talent or no talent.

[NewColtsFan]

 

Dear God....

 

I was hoping this thread would go away and die a quiet death,  and it's back and worse than ever.

 

This is an all-time terrible thread filled with enough nonsense to fill-up the Grand Canyon.

 

And the worst of it is THIS....

 

People here have been ripping the Colts for weeks.     It started in Pre-Season and now has gotten dramatically worse. Fine.    I get it.     Rip your team.

 

BUT....

 

Now that ESPN and others are ripping your team and mostly saying the same thing --- that we suck --- now everyone here is morally outraged.

 

It's a scene straight out of Animal House.   "They can't rip our pledges, only WE can rip our pledges!!"

 

People here take the same approach:      "They can't rip our Colts,  only WE can rip our Colts!!"

 

And then it's followed by the typical greatest hits of Colts' fans complaints....

 

"They don't like us because of deflate gate!"

 

"They don't like us because we're a small market franchises!"

 

"They don't like teams from the midwest,  only on the East Coast or West Coast!"

 

Greenberg såid it this morning....   he knows people in Indy and that was their speculation.    He stated it poorly.   But he didn't make it up.    He was wrong,  becauß´his sources were wrong.     He has no sources INSIDE the Colts,  but he knows local media people.     They fed him their speculation and he ran with it.     His mistake.

 

This didn't come from EVIL ESPN executives who told Greenberg what to say.    That's not the way it works.   ESPN people pay their top talent 7 figures to speak their mind.    They don't tell them what to say.

 

This is so embarrassing it painful to read.     It's always that way when the topic is media.    But given the media is now saying what fans here are saying it's just a big pot of hypocritical stew and suddenly you don't like it.      It's OK if fans here rip their team,   but it's not OK if the media does.....

 

This is as lame as lame can be......

 

I hope this thread scrolls away as fast as humaly possible.

 

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, DougDew said:

Evidence that people at ESPN feed the mouthpieces bad info.   They are a Fake Source.  Nothing sinister here, they probably just can't understand in their mind why somebody with the talent of Luck would want to languish in a small market on a team that isn't winning and shouldn't be demanding to get all that he "deserves" .  The viewpoint of the source influences the reporting.

 

Your are so wrong when it comes to media.     No oen here is as spectacularly wrong as you are on the topic of media.

 

No exectuive at ESPN feeds the on-air talent what to say.      Greenberg said this morning that he knows people in Indianapolis (media)  and they fed him their speculation and he ran with it.     His sconces were wrong and he was wrong.      But this isn't evidence that executives or producers are feeding the mouthpieces?     So Greenies sources are Indy media types.     People who are watching this trainwreck and speculating.    His sources are not ESPN executives and producers.

 

Where do you get this stuff?

 

You might as well throw darts at a dart board.     Or pull fortunes out of a cookie.     Or go see a fortune tellers.   ALL OF THEM would give you a better chance of being even a little bit close to being right.

 

It's embarrassing.      For you.      I don't know why you keep running full speed into the wrong wall.    It's the equivelent of the coyote chasing the road runner.      You always think you're going to win.     And you never do.

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

On 9/11/2017 at 5:45 PM, Pacergeek said:

 

What the hell is Ballard waiting for then? He did nothing to address this during the off-season. The OL is worse than it has ever been. 

 

 

Ballard did NOT do nothing.

 

Everything went wrong.

 

Clark and Haeg regressed and/or have some other issues like an injury.

 

Kelly broke a foot.

 

Mewhort's knee acted up.

 

Ballard signed a mid--level back-up in Schwenke and HE got hurt.

 

Ballard his his first of three fourth round draft picks on Banner.     And for some reason, he didn't work out.   Remember, this was an historically bad OL draft class.

 

Everything that could go wrong,  has gone wrong.       The OL is worse today.    But it's not worse than it was the first half of last year.     That was far worse.    Just because the line is poor today,  doesn't mean it will be that way all season long.     Remember, last year the line went from one of the top-5 worst in the first half of the season, to one of the top-5 best by the last6 weeks of the season.

 

It would help if you paid a little attention.

 

 

 

[DougDew]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Your are so wrong when it comes to media.     No oen here is as spectacularly wrong as you are on the topic of media.

 

No exectuive at ESPN feeds the on-air talent what to say.      Greenberg said this morning that he knows people in Indianapolis (media)  and they fed him their speculation and he ran with it.     His sconces were wrong and he was wrong.      But this isn't evidence that executives or producers are feeding the mouthpieces?     So Greenies sources are Indy media types.     People who are watching this trainwreck and speculating.    His sources are not ESPN executives and producers.

 

Where do you get this stuff?

 

You might as well throw darts at a dart board.     Or pull fortunes out of a cookie.     Or go see a fortune tellers.   ALL OF THEM would give you a better chance of being even a little bit close to being right.

 

It's embarrassing.      For you.      I don't know why you keep running full speed into the wrong wall.    It's the equivelent of the coyote chasing the road runner.      You always think you're going to win.     And you never do.

 

 

I never said executives feed them anything.  I was thinking that some lowly beat reporter was the foundation of the rumor based upon thinking he has information when he just has hearsay.  Hearsay isn't a source. 

 

Somebody like Doyel.  He heard someone say that someone said that Oliver told Jimmy that Andrew was getting a bit concerned about the team repeating the same mistakes.

 

Being biased, a bit of a dramatic diva, that gets fed up the chain to Mike & Mike as Luck wanting out of his contract to another team that would have more success.  Interpretation of hearsay is not a source.

 

And since they had to retract it, my opinion of what the situation was is pretty close to real.  

 

How else would a reporter get it wrong?  They were never told that Luck wanted out to another team in the first place.  They weren't part of any conversation with Luck himself,  if they were, they could report straight up verbage (but not reveal the source).  So how does something get reported up the chain wrongly towards the dramatic without it being biased interpretation of hearsay?

 

Cut and paste journalism.  Hearsay considered a source.  News isn't Fake an biased by sinister attitude.  Its Fake by laziness and the need to have a high volume of material to fill time and click-bait, so they lower their standards on what they consider to be credible information, but still report as such. 

 

Or, it could be somebody other than a reporter, yes, a manager of some type.  How could ESPN report Fake News of Luck wanting to go to the 49ers if it isn't somebody at ESPN or the 49ers wanting him to be there, or somebody else thinking in terms of maximizing celebrity revenue.  Then that rumor getting reported as legitimate on national TV?

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Dear God....

 

I was hoping this thread would go away and die a quiet death,  and it's back and worse than ever.

 

This is an all-time terrible thread filled with enough nonsense to fill-up the Grand Canyon.

 

And the worst of it is THIS....

 

People here have been ripping the Colts for weeks.     It started in Pre-Season and now has gotten dramatically worse. Fine.    I get it.     Rip your team.

 

BUT....

 

Now that ESPN and others are ripping your team and mostly saying the same thing --- that we suck --- now everyone here is morally outraged.

 

It's a scene straight out of Animal House.   "They can't rip our pledges, only WE can rip our pledges!!"

 

People here take the same approach:      "They can't rip our Colts,  only WE can rip our Colts!!"

 

And then it's followed by the typical greatest hits of Colts' fans complaints....

 

"They don't like us because of deflate gate!"

 

"They don't like us because we're a small market franchises!"

 

"They don't like teams from the midwest,  only on the East Coast or West Coast!"

 

Greenberg såid it this morning....   he knows people in Indy and that was their speculation.    He stated it poorly.   But he didn't make it up.    He was wrong,  becauß´his sources were wrong.     He has no sources INSIDE the Colts,  but he knows local media people.     They fed him their speculation and he ran with it.     His mistake.

 

This didn't come from EVIL ESPN executives who told Greenberg what to say.    That's not the way it works.   ESPN people pay their top talent 7 figures to speak their mind.    They don't tell them what to say.

 

This is so embarrassing it painful to read.     It's always that way when the topic is media.    But given the media is now saying what fans here are saying it's just a big pot of hypocritical stew and suddenly you don't like it.      It's OK if fans here rip their team,   but it's not OK if the media does.....

 

This is as lame as lame can be......

 

I hope this thread scrolls away as fast as humaly possible.

 

 

 

To keep it short, Greeny was wrong and ESPN does bash us daily calling us the worse the team in the league. Now you have Tony Kornheiser saying Luck wont play out his contract on PTI just now. Where do they get this garbage?

[buccolts]

7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Dear God....

 

I was hoping this thread would go away and die a quiet death,  and it's back and worse than ever.

 

This is an all-time terrible thread filled with enough nonsense to fill-up the Grand Canyon.

 

And the worst of it is THIS....

 

People here have been ripping the Colts for weeks.     It started in Pre-Season and now has gotten dramatically worse. Fine.    I get it.     Rip your team.

 

BUT....

 

Now that ESPN and others are ripping your team and mostly saying the same thing --- that we suck --- now everyone here is morally outraged.

 

It's a scene straight out of Animal House.   "They can't rip our pledges, only WE can rip our pledges!!"

 

People here take the same approach:      "They can't rip our Colts,  only WE can rip our Colts!!"

 

And then it's followed by the typical greatest hits of Colts' fans complaints....

 

"They don't like us because of deflate gate!"

 

"They don't like us because we're a small market franchises!"

 

"They don't like teams from the midwest,  only on the East Coast or West Coast!"

 

Greenberg såid it this morning....   he knows people in Indy and that was their speculation.    He stated it poorly.   But he didn't make it up.    He was wrong,  becauß´his sources were wrong.     He has no sources INSIDE the Colts,  but he knows local media people.     They fed him their speculation and he ran with it.     His mistake.

 

This didn't come from EVIL ESPN executives who told Greenberg what to say.    That's not the way it works.   ESPN people pay their top talent 7 figures to speak their mind.    They don't tell them what to say.

 

This is so embarrassing it painful to read.     It's always that way when the topic is media.    But given the media is now saying what fans here are saying it's just a big pot of hypocritical stew and suddenly you don't like it.      It's OK if fans here rip their team,   but it's not OK if the media does.....

 

This is as lame as lame can be......

 

I hope this thread scrolls away as fast as humaly possible.

 

 

 

 

 

I understand what you're sayin', BUT......

 

Hypocrites ("Hey, I know they're stupid, but they're MY stupid"):

I know you know this, but you're talking to a small crowd. They just happen to be the vocal minority. A pesky bunch.

All fan bases are all over the board on how they support their team, and most don't appreciate outsiders criticism.

When you paint with a broad brush, you accuse the innocent, as well.

 

The Media:

I'm very apprehensious about the press, and I know that's your wheel house, and I  know, that you know, that much of the Mike & Mike show is opinion based. So is any show with Skip Bayless, and we all know (hope) Skip's shows follow a script. When you squint, it's hard to tell who's being fed lines, and who's offering THEIR opinion. Not too different from TV Wrastlin'.

 

Anyway, I'm so glad the off season bash talkin' is over........  

 

BTW, I'd like to add that now I'm interested to know who Greenie's Indy 'source' was.

 

[NewColtsFan]

6 minutes ago, buccolts said:

 

 

I understand what you're sayin', BUT......

 

Hypocrites ("Hey, I know they're stupid, but they're MY stupid"):

I know you know this, but you're talking to a small crowd. They just happen to be the vocal minority. A pesky bunch.

All fan bases are all over the board on how they support their team, and most don't appreciate outsiders criticism.

When you paint with a broad brush, you accuse the innocent, as well.

 

The Media:

I'm very apprehensious about the press, and I know that's your wheel house, and I  know, that you know, that much of the Mike & Mike show is opinion based. So is any show with Skip Bayless, and we all know (hope) Skip's shows follow a script. When you squint, it's hard to tell who's being fed lines, and who's offering THEIR opinion. Not too different from TV Wrastlin'.

 

Anyway, I'm so glad the off season bash talkin' is over........  

 

BTW, I'd like to add that now I'm interested to know who Greenie's Indy 'source' was.

 

 

If I had to guess,  it's a member of the local Indy media, and NOT someone inside the Colts.    Can't imagine that Greenie has a source inside the team.      But instead, a friend in local media.

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

14 minutes ago, buccolts said:

 

 

I understand what you're sayin', BUT......

 

Hypocrites ("Hey, I know they're stupid, but they're MY stupid"):

I know you know this, but you're talking to a small crowd. They just happen to be the vocal minority. A pesky bunch.

All fan bases are all over the board on how they support their team, and most don't appreciate outsiders criticism.

When you paint with a broad brush, you accuse the innocent, as well.

 

The Media:

I'm very apprehensious about the press, and I know that's your wheel house, and I  know, that you know, that much of the Mike & Mike show is opinion based. So is any show with Skip Bayless, and we all know (hope) Skip's shows follow a script. When you squint, it's hard to tell who's being fed lines, and who's offering THEIR opinion. Not too different from TV Wrastlin'.

 

Anyway, I'm so glad the off season bash talkin' is over........  

 

BTW, I'd like to add that now I'm interested to know who Greenie's Indy 'source' was.

 

The thing that I don't like, is when these ESPN people like Greeny says what he says and it isn't even true. These guys are reporting false stuff and have no idea what they are talking about. Were they in a room with Irsay and Ballard, did they talk to Luck personally? Once Luck's agent said the rumor was false, Greeny backed off what he said. Most of the people at ESPN don't know anything about our team and it's obvious. Tony Kornheiser saying Luck wont play out his contract? Oh Really, where did that come from Tony? Luck is in a 5 year deal and isn't going anywhere and his agent said he's happy here, so end of story. The crap just gets old by these media people taking swats at us. Hell we cant even bring an orangutan on TV without someone bashing us!

[buccolts]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

If I had to guess,  it's a member of the local Indy media, and NOT someone inside the Colts.    Can't imagine that Greenie has a source inside the team.      But instead, a friend in local media.

 

 

Yeah, that's what I understand also.

Hmmm.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

If I had to guess,  it's a member of the local Indy media, and NOT someone inside the Colts.    Can't imagine that Greenie has a source inside the team.      But instead, a friend in local media.

 

That's the point.  The sources are other media people, probably Doyel, Kravitz, or Keefer, the pot stirring drama queens. 

 

That's not a source.  That's hearsay.  That's like a reporter getting his information by reading another reporter's article.  Another reporter isn't a source.  Who knows if Kravitz got the rumor from an actual source, or if Kravitz' source is a person who was told thirdhand of a conversation that occurred between Oliver and Jimmy. 

 

Then Kornheiser hears it from Greenie, and he flat out opines that Luck wont play out his contract.  And we are supposed believe that it is some sort of informed opinion, simply because he trusts that Kravitz has an actual source that heard the conversation between Oliver and Jimmy.

 

None of this was properly sourced and only got retracted when the subject of the rumor, Luck, got angry enough to have his agent make a statement. 

 

There was a time when reporters would have to actually ask Luck about it before it would be treated as newsworthy.

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

9 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

To keep it short, Greeny was wrong and ESPN does bash us daily calling us the worse the team in the league. Now you have Tony Kornheiser saying Luck wont play out his contract on PTI just now. Where do they get this garbage?

 

But you didn't address my main point.

 

The media is criticizing the Colts.      The fans have criticized the Owner,  the new GM,  the Head Coach,   the two Coordinators,  pretty much everyone! 

 

So,  why is OK for the frans to crush their own team,  but they object when the media is doing it?!?     The media is saying what the fans are.    That we're a hot mess.     So,  what exactly is the problem with that?

 

[NewColtsFan]

12 hours ago, DougDew said:

I never said executives feed them anything.  I was thinking that some lowly beat reporter was the foundation of the rumor based upon thinking he has information when he just has hearsay.  Hearsay isn't a source. 

 

Somebody like Doyel.  He heard someone say that someone said that Oliver told Jimmy that Andrew was getting a bit concerned about the team repeating the same mistakes.

 

Being biased, a bit of a dramatic diva, that gets fed up the chain to Mike & Mike as Luck wanting out of his contract to another team that would have more success.  Interpretation of hearsay is not a source.

 

And since they had to retract it, my opinion of what the situation was is pretty close to real.  

 

How else would a reporter get it wrong?  They were never told that Luck wanted out to another team in the first place.  They weren't part of any conversation with Luck himself,  if they were, they could report straight up verbage (but not reveal the source).  So how does something get reported up the chain wrongly towards the dramatic without it being biased interpretation of hearsay?

 

Cut and paste journalism.  Hearsay considered a source.  News isn't Fake an biased by sinister attitude.  Its Fake by laziness and the need to have a high volume of material to fill time and click-bait, so they lower their standards on what they consider to be credible information, but still report as such. 

 

Or, it could be somebody other than a reporter, yes, a manager of some type.  How could ESPN report Fake News of Luck wanting to go to the 49ers if it isn't somebody at ESPN or the 49ers wanting him to be there, or somebody else thinking in terms of maximizing celebrity revenue.  Then that rumor getting reported as legitimate on national TV?

 

OK,  first let's be clear about something.....    I know you're not stating it as fact, but instead a hypothetical,  but for fans who just come along and are reading this exchange,  I want to be clear about something.....

 

From everything I've ever read about Andrew Luck and his dad,  Oliver Luck does NOT get involved in his son's football life.      He didn't in HS,  the coach has said so....    he didn't at Stanford,  Harbaugh and Shaw said so....    and when Luck has an issue here in Indy (which he rarely does)  he has his agent deal with it,   not hs father.    I just wanted to make that clear.     Oliver is never an issue with Andrew.

 

That said....

 

We have no idea what Greenberg's sources know.    We don't know if it's idle speculation,  or if his Indy media source actually knows something of substance?      No idea,  none of us.     But even if it's only idle speculation,   Greenberg had a source.     Now, it's likely not a great one,  and speculation is terrible,  but another media member IS and can be a source.     The days of a reporter having to get two or three sources before a story could be run are over.   And they've been long gone for several decades now.     Seriously.

 

Greenberg's biggest mistake was not to clearly label his Luck story as more rumor than fact,   more speculatoin than informed sources....       that should've been made clear, and it wasn't.     Big, big mistake by Greenberg.

 

By the way,  Greenberg is a graduate of Northwestern's Journalism program, which is top-5 in the nation.    He shoul'dve known better than to be as unclear as he was and present rumor and speculation as fact.

 

Here's the problem, Doug....   media is so much faster than it ever used to be...    especially sports media, which is on all the time and updated constantly day and night.    Plus,  social media puts out tons of material,  some good, some bad,  but it gets out there fast.     Almost instantaneously.  

 

Regular old  fashioned media is struggling to keep up just to stay relevent.   So,  you are required to try and stay up and use fewer sources if need be.    It sucks,  but that's the world we live in.     Rumor and speculation first,  then gives the deails later and clean up any mistakes you may have made along the way AFTER the fact.     That's the new world we all live in.      It's not the world I worked in.      But it's the world we all live in now.

 

It's not laziness.    It's the hurry to put information out first.    To be relevent.     Ther's a belief if you're not first, then you're last.     That even if you get it slightly wrong at first,  you can correct it and clean it up later.    But be first.

 

No one wants to get beat.    

 

If the story was true,  every media person in Indy that covers the team would have their editors and bosses yelling at them wondering why Mike Greenberg sitting in Connecticut had it first,  and not someone covering the team in Indy with presumably better sources.

 

This is not the noble profession it once was.     This is not Woodward and Bernstein bringng down the President of the United States.     This is more Dog Eat Dog Journalism.....   be relevent or risk being left behind....

 

Your last paragraph about Luck and the 49ers went over my head....   sorry,  not sure what to say about that....

 

I hope this clarifies some things....    if not,  please feel free to ask more questions if you think it would help.

 

Sorry things got out of hand at my end.    Very dark and difficult days here at my end.    Yes, even in pretty Southern California things can get very difficult.     Sorry to take it out on you....

 

NCF

 

[DaveA1102]

32 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Sorry things got out of hand at my end.    Very dark and difficult days here at my end.    Yes, even in pretty Southern California things can get very difficult.     Sorry to take it out on you....

 

 

I did think there was a bit more bite in your posts than usual NCF, hope all is ok.

[DougDew]

4 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

OK,  first let's be clear about something.....    I know you're not stating it as fact, but instead a hypothetical,  but for fans who just come along and are reading this exchange,  I want to be clear about something.....

 

From everything I've ever read about Andrew Luck and his dad,  Oliver Luck does NOT get involved in his son's football life.      He didn't in HS,  the coach has said so....    he didn't at Stanford,  Harbaugh and Shaw said so....    and when Luck has an issue here in Indy (which he rarely does)  he has his agent deal with it,   not hs father.    I just wanted to make that clear.     Oliver is never an issue with Andrew.

 

That said....

 

We have no idea what Greenberg's sources know.    We don't know if it's idle speculation,  or if his Indy media source actually knows something of substance?      No idea,  none of us.     But even if it's only idle speculation,   Greenberg had a source.     Now, it's likely not a great one,  and speculation is terrible,  but another media member IS and can be a source.     The days of a reporter having to get two or three sources before a story could be run are over.   And they've been long gone for several decades now.     Seriously.

 

Greenberg's biggest mistake was not to clearly label his Luck story as more rumor than fact,   more speculatoin than informed sources....       that should've been made clear, and it wasn't.     Big, big mistake by Greenberg.

 

By the way,  Greenberg is a graduate of Northwestern's Journalism program, which is top-5 in the nation.    He shoul'dve known better than to be as unclear as he was and present rumor and speculation as fact.

 

Here's the problem, Doug....   media is so much faster than it ever used to be...    especially sports media, which is on all the time and updated constantly day and night.    Plus,  social media puts out tons of material,  some good, some bad,  but it gets out there fast.     Almost instantaneously.  

 

Regular old  fashioned media is struggling to keep up just to stay relevent.   So,  you are required to try and stay up and use fewer sources if need be.    It sucks,  but that's the world we live in.     Rumor and speculation first,  then gives the deails later and clean up any mistakes you may have made along the way AFTER the fact.     That's the new world we all live in.      It's not the world I worked in.      But it's the world we all live in now.

 

It's not laziness.    It's the hurry to put information out first.    To be relevent.     Ther's a belief if you're not first, then you're last.     That even if you get it slightly wrong at first,  you can correct it and clean it up later.    But be first.

 

No one wants to get beat.    

 

If the story was true,  every media person in Indy that covers the team would have their editors and bosses yelling at them wondering why Mike Greenberg sitting in Connecticut had it first,  and not someone covering the team in Indy with presumably better sources.

 

This is not the noble profession it once was.     This is not Woodward and Bernstein bringng down the President of the United States.     This is more Dog Eat Dog Journalism.....   be relevent or risk being left behind....

 

Your last paragraph about Luck and the 49ers went over my head....   sorry,  not sure what to say about that....

 

I hope this clarifies some things....    if not,  please feel free to ask more questions if you think it would help.

 

Sorry things got out of hand at my end.    Very dark and difficult days here at my end.    Yes, even in pretty Southern California things can get very difficult.     Sorry to take it out on you....

 

NCF

 

Before spreading the rumor about what Andrew Luck was thinking, they could have asked Andrew himself what he was thinking.  

 

NOT asking Andrew allowed the rumor to become a ratings grabbing headline before the denial came in.  And that omission was probably intentional.  I'm sure Greenies sources have been in the business long enough to know exactly what they were doing by lifting the rumor up before giving Andrew a chance to stop it.

 

That's not journalism by any stretched definition.  Its entertainment via gossiping.  That's why blending entertainment with journalism is causing the media industry to lose credibility.

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, DougDew said:

Before spreading the rumor about what Andrew Luck was thinking, they could have asked Andrew himself what he was thinking.  

 

NOT asking Andrew allowed the rumor to become a ratings grabbing headline before the denial came in.  And that omission was probably intentional.  I'm sure Greenies sources have been in the business long enough to know exactly what they were doing by lifting the rumor up before giving Andrew a chance to stop it.

 

That's not journalism by any stretched definition.  Its entertainment via gossiping.  That's why blending entertainment with journalism is causing the media industry to lose credibility.

 

We don't know what the rules are for interviewing Luck.     He's only getting interviewed perhaps every 4-6 weeks.   I don't think the Colts bring Luck to the media just because someone has a question.

 

I m guessing that Luck does NOT give out his number to any media members.    So the media's ACCESS to Luck is likely VERY limited.  

 

This is NOT as cut and dry as you might think. 

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

7 hours ago, DaveA1102 said:

 

I did think there was a bit more bite in your posts than usual NCF, hope all is ok.

 

I appreciate the thought.

 

Unfortunately,  very little is OK at my end, BUT I have to handle it better.     Much better.

 

Thanks again.

 

 

 

 

[DougDew]

54 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

We don't know what the rules are for interviewing Luck.     He's only getting interviewed perhaps every 4-6 weeks.   I don't think the Colts bring Luck to the media just because someone has a question.

 

I m guessing that Luck does NOT give out his number to any media members.    So the media's ACCESS to Luck is likely VERY limited.  

 

This is NOT as cut and dry as you might think. 

 

 

So the industry standard these days is that if the reporter has to wait too long to get it right, they should just go with what they have and hope it sticks.  

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

8 minutes ago, DougDew said:

So the industry standard these days is that if the reporter has to wait too long to get it right, they should just go with what they have and hope it sticks.  

 

 

 

Doug.....    it's been that way for years and years now.       It's not a new development.

 

Get the story out,  try and get it right,  and if you're wrong in small ways,  clean it up,   and if you're wrong in bigger ways,  try to explain why.

 

Sad,  but true.     Lots of gosspy stories out there....   

 

If you look at ESPN.com there's a box that shows the top stories at any given moment.    Perhaps 6-7 of them...

 

And it's not uncommon for the headline to read like this:

 

Source:   Luck reportedly unhappy in Indy.    

 

And that's not just an ESPN thing.     That's the way it is for all media these days.     Now, NEWS media tries much harder to get it right, because the stakes are much, MUCH higher.     Sometimes life and death.      But sports media has a lower bar, a lower threshold because it's the "toy department" of life.     There is great pressure to be first.

 

But I'll add this....   be wrong too many times on too many stories and a reporter risks either unemployment or becoming irrelevent.

 

[DougDew]

13 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Doug.....    it's been that way for years and years now.       It's not a new development.

 

Get the story out,  try and get it right,  and if you're wrong in small ways,  clean it up,   and if you're wrong in bigger ways,  try to explain why.

 

Sad,  but true.     Lots of gosspy stories out there....   

 

If you look at ESPN.com there's a box that shows the top stories at any given moment.    Perhaps 6-7 of them...

 

And it's not uncommon for the headline to read like this:

 

Source:   Luck reportedly unhappy in Indy.    

 

And that's not just an ESPN thing.     That's the way it is for all media these days.     Now, NEWS media tries much harder to get it right, because the stakes are much, MUCH higher.     Sometimes life and death.      But sports media has a lower bar, a lower threshold because it's the "toy department" of life.     There is great pressure to be first.

 

But I'll add this....   be wrong too many times on too many stories and a reporter risks either unemployment or becoming irrelevent.

 

I get that, but the line 'Luck reportedly unhappy in Indy"  takes nothing more than common sense.  It doesn't take reporting.   There is no substance to the opinion if there are no more facts presented than what anybody else has.

 

And then it turns out the opinion was retracted because the reporter defrauded the reader and his boss that there was some special insight to the situation.  Oftentimes you can tell there is no special insight by just reading the articles, but we are to believe that their opinion is more solidly founded than the average observant person's.

 

For all I know, Keefer, Kravitz, and Doyel simply sit in their offices, surf the net for information like anybody else, get a few emails from sources,  and write their opinion articles based on that.  

 

[Myles]

44 minutes ago, DougDew said:

So the industry standard these days is that if the reporter has to wait too long to get it right, they should just go with what they have and hope it sticks.  

 

 

That is the ESPN way.

This is another case of ESPN making up a story on a morning program and running with it on every TV and radio program throughout the day.   No fact checking needed.  

[NewColtsFan]

6 hours ago, DougDew said:

I get that, but the line 'Luck reportedly unhappy in Indy"  takes nothing more than common sense.  It doesn't take reporting.   There is no substance to the opinion if there are no more facts presented than what anybody else has.

 

And then it turns out the opinion was retracted because the reporter defrauded the reader and his boss that there was some special insight to the situation.  Oftentimes you can tell there is no special insight by just reading the articles, but we are to believe that their opinion is more solidly founded than the average observant person's.

 

For all I know, Keefer, Kravitz, and Doyel simply sit in their offices, surf the net for information like anybody else, get a few emails from sources,  and write their opinion articles based on that.  

 

 

I don't iknow what to tell you....

 

Except you're acting as if all this is some type of new development.     It's roughly 10-15 years old,  if not older.

 

When media went 24/7/365 the game changed.    The pressure to get stories out was dramatically magnified.

 

The world changed.    And everyone is struggling to keep up.....      it's the world we live in now....

 

I wish I had better answers for you.....