The Greatest Ruse In Nfl History....(Prob Wishful Thinking)

[cmgww]

Ok, I've stayed away from a lot of the Manning talk on here...only posting every now and then. There's a lot of it going on for sure.

Here's my crackpot theory...take it with a grain of salt:

Irsay and Manning have known since December that Manning is good to go.....this whole thing is one big ruse to stir up the media. BUT......

Irsay did realize that the Colts F.O. needed changed and the team needed to rely less on Manning (see 2-14 without him as evidence), and went kind of Denver Broncos late in Elways career...brought in a smash-mouth minded defensive coach (Manning runs the O so there's not much need there, just coaches for the skill and line positions) The Polians were not going to get it done in the near future

So...they start this back and forth, causing the hype machine we call the media to foam at the mouth, which they are literally now doing (see ESPN already talking about which teams he'll fit best with)

Irsay realizes that the team needs more than a so-called "can't miss" QB to be competitive. He realizes the picks he'd get for Luck would help the team immensely, especially after he came out and said he's going QB #1....lifting Luck's value even more...

Manning doesn't want to uproot the family, and leave the town that he's called home for 14 years to start over in a new system (or force his system on new players; that takes time he doesn't have)...

So they both create the greatest ruse of all time, football wise. And Manning comes back, they trade the pick, and they both give the symbolic middle finger to all the media ^fool^s and their baseless rumors and hype...

And a revamped Colts team with a few more pieces on defense (see Houston's D for example) goes on to win another SB or maybe two with #18 leading the charge..

Sounds like a pipe dream, but given everything that's been thrown out there, and I mean it's a LOT, this isn't out of the realm of possibility.....

[doogansquest]

It was definitely not a big ruse, or a conspiracy from the get go, but I do believe Manning will be back here. I think Irsay never had plans on cutting him anyway, if he is good to go.

There's just no way he's hoping Manning retires because of the prospect of playing Luck now. Manning healthy is guaranteed to win. Luck is less than a 50/50 (and that's being generous with regards to rookie QB's).

He wants both players on his team. That was his "Plan A" from the beginning, and he'll find a way to get it if Manning can play.

[braveheartcolt]

There are two chances of this happening: none and........all.

[Smonroe]

I agree with Doongan, except for the par about Manning retiring. I think Irsay would love to figure out a way to keep them both. But, according to Jim, he'll pay a HEALTHY Peyton. If the team doesn't consider him healthy, I think Irsay hopes he retires.

We all know Peyton, he's not going to retire. He may not play for the Colts, but when that nerve fires he'll play for somebody.

[Meltdown]

Well Irsay has already been caught in one false hood. He said that the Colts medical staff had not cleared Manning to play, but in reality it was the Colts Neurosurgeon that said " I would tell you to go play even if you were my own son " .

Now I have been thinking the same exact thing for quite sometime, I just never had the guts to post it. It is an on going saga that will hopefully be put to rest very shortly.

I have said in other threads that Irsay " cannot afford " to cut a healthy Peyton Manning. All people see is the 28 million he will owe to Peyton and the salary cap implications. They are not seeing the huge revenues to be lost for the city of Indianapolis from lack of ticket sales and etc.That will ultimately hurt Irsays pocket more than the 28 million that he will pay Peyton with.

Peyton will be back. I heard just this morning on espn radio, Chris Mortenson when asked " can Peyton throw or not " Mortenson said with great confidence that Peyton could throw the football and " looked " (key word) as good as he did prior to the surgery. He even said the Colts would be very interested in keeping him in the fold.

But he then goes on to say that Isay could still opt to cut him, but he thought that this was getting be more of an after thought as time moves on.

[chrisfarley]

party agree w/doogan except that there is no way Manning is retained at this point but i believe you when plan A was to keep them both.... fully agree with that,,,,,it's just not practical unless cap is OK, which it might be according to some.

[ruksak]

Well Irsay has already been caught in one false hood. He said that the Colts medical staff had not cleared Manning to play, but in reality it was the Colts Neurosurgeon that said " I would tell you to go play even if you were my own son " .

I may be mistaken, I probably am. But wasn't it Manning's own doctor that made this statement, someone not directly affiliated with the Colts?

[Meltdown]

I may be mistaken, I probably am. But wasn't it Manning's own doctor that made this statement, someone not directly affiliated with the Colts?

Ruk your are correct Peytons Doctor did clear him to play. However there were two doctors and the second doctor was the Colts own Neurosurgeon, he is the one who made the "own son " statement.

[buccolts]

Ruk your are correct Peytons Doctor did clear him to play. However there were two doctors and the second doctor was the Colts own Neurosurgeon, he is the one who made the "own son " statement.

Yes, but (from what I've heard) there's consequences to team doctors clearing Peyton. Being that he couldn't use team facilities to rehab.

Have there been any reports that the Colts have released their Team Doctors recently?

[UndecidedFrog]

Yes, but (from what I've heard) there's consequences to team doctors clearing Peyton. Being that he couldn't use team facilities to rehab.

Have there been any reports that the Colts have released their Team Doctors recently?

No, I have no heard that any team docs have been released.

Also, I do not consider a neurosurgeon that was consulting for the team as a team doctor. I highly doubt that any NFL team would have a neurosurgeon on staff. They could not afford it. However, it is very likely that they will engage a consultant when necessary to address a particular issue, such as PM's nerve regeneration issue.

[chrisfarley]

Yes, but (from what I've heard) there's consequences to team doctors clearing Peyton. Being that he couldn't use team facilities to rehab.

Have there been any reports that the Colts have released their Team Doctors recently?

wow, i've never heard so much back and forth regarding doctors comments, team doctors, owners tweeting, manning talking to Kravitz, Manning meeting with Irsay, super bowl commentary by every national media outlet, a game show parady (wheel of Manning), etc, etc.

This is really amazing that it's really happening.... I am pinching myself right now and I guess I'm not dreaming it because it left a mark.

[Tony Sullivan]

Also, I do not consider a neurosurgeon that was consulting for the team as a team doctor. I highly doubt that any NFL team would have a neurosurgeon on staff. They could not afford it. However, it is very likely that they will engage a consultant when necessary to address a particular issue, such as PM's nerve regeneration issue.

I'm sure these consultations are not free. They are being employed by the team. If what Meltdown is saying is accurate.

[ruksak]

I am pinching myself right now and I guess I'm not dreaming it because it left a mark.

2011 left a mark on all of us.

[shakedownstreet]

what we need to do is sit down and reanalyze all the facts and rumors to this point and come up with a new, yet reasonable, outcome

[Meltdown]

No, I have no heard that any team docs have been released.

Also, I do not consider a neurosurgeon that was consulting for the team as a team doctor. I highly doubt that any NFL team would have a neurosurgeon on staff. They could not afford it. However, it is very likely that they will engage a consultant when necessary to address a particular issue, such as PM's nerve regeneration issue.

Froggie you will have consult with Chris Mortenson on that one, he is the one that stated the Colts own Neurosurgeon was the one that made the "my own son" statement. I cannot back it up just repeating what I heard this morning on ESPN radio.

Found this small piece of an article.(below)

Manning recently was cleared by Los Angeles-based specialist Robert Watkins, according to a person with knowledge of the situation who is not authorized to speak. Watkins and Colts neurosurgeon Hank Feuer cleared Manning in December.

[Meltdown]

Sorry guys I messed the qoute up. Froggie you will have to consult with Chris Mortenson on that one, he is the one that stated the Colts own Neurosurgeon was the one that made the "my own son" statement.

I cannot back it up just repeating what I heard this morning on ESPN radio. Found this small piece of an article.(below)

Manning recently was cleared by Los Angeles-based specialist Robert Watkins, according to a person with knowledge of the situation who is not authorized to speak. Watkins and Colts neurosurgeon Hank Feuer cleared Manning in December.

"If you were my own son, I'd tell (you) to go play," Feuer told the four-time MVP

[Fatboyslim11]

It was definitely not a big ruse, or a conspiracy from the get go, but I do believe Manning will be back here. I think Irsay never had plans on cutting him anyway, if he is good to go.

There's just no way he's hoping Manning retires because of the prospect of playing Luck now. Manning healthy is guaranteed to win. Luck is less than a 50/50 (and that's being generous with regards to rookie QB's).

He wants both players on his team. That was his "Plan A" from the beginning, and he'll find a way to get it if Manning can play.

That scenario wouldn't be so far fetched if the Polians were still in charge. Listening to Polian on Sirius NFL radio, I got the impression that he would have re-signed Manning and drafted RGIII (probably after trading Down a couple of spots).

[JTcardscolts]

Ok, I've stayed away from a lot of the Manning talk on here...only posting every now and then. There's a lot of it going on for sure.

Here's my crackpot theory...take it with a grain of salt:

Irsay and Manning have known since December that Manning is good to go.....this whole thing is one big ruse to stir up the media. BUT......

Irsay did realize that the Colts F.O. needed changed and the team needed to rely less on Manning (see 2-14 without him as evidence), and went kind of Denver Broncos late in Elways career...brought in a smash-mouth minded defensive coach (Manning runs the O so there's not much need there, just coaches for the skill and line positions) The Polians were not going to get it done in the near future

So...they start this back and forth, causing the hype machine we call the media to foam at the mouth, which they are literally now doing (see ESPN already talking about which teams he'll fit best with)

Irsay realizes that the team needs more than a so-called "can't miss" QB to be competitive. He realizes the picks he'd get for Luck would help the team immensely, especially after he came out and said he's going QB #1....lifting Luck's value even more...

Manning doesn't want to uproot the family, and leave the town that he's called home for 14 years to start over in a new system (or force his system on new players; that takes time he doesn't have)...

So they both create the greatest ruse of all time, football wise. And Manning comes back, they trade the pick, and they both give the symbolic middle finger to all the media ^fool^s and their baseless rumors and hype...

And a revamped Colts team with a few more pieces on defense (see Houston's D for example) goes on to win another SB or maybe two with #18 leading the charge..

Sounds like a pipe dream, but given everything that's been thrown out there, and I mean it's a LOT, this isn't out of the realm of possibility.....

I stated this exact theory in a thread a while back...

It could happen...

[WSO]

There is no conspiracy. Zip. Nada. Seriously folks cmon...

Also its not a theory. Its a hypothesis.

[UndecidedFrog]

I'm sure these consultations are not free. They are being employed by the team. If what Meltdown is saying is accurate.

I have no doubt that the consultant neurosurgeon was engaged by the team.

I do not know if that engagement constitutes a legal employer/employee status. I think, under the circumstances, it is more likely to be a independent contractor relationship between the neurosurgeon and the team.

If this likelihood is true, then the neurosurgeon consultant would not be an employee of the team, and hence not a team doctor.

[cmgww]

There is no conspiracy. Zip. Nada. Seriously folks cmon...

Also its not a theory. Its a hypothesis.

You don't know that...unless you are somehow related to Manning or Irsay. Are you? And really, nit picking on whether or not it's a theory or hypothesis? Wow...judging by your avatar we all know what your opinion is, regarding who should be the Colts QB in 2012....It would be kinda funny too, if you had to change it IF he's not drafted.

Again I said it was out of left field so to speak....take it as you will.

[WSO]

You don't know that...unless you are somehow related to Manning or Irsay. Are you? And really, nit picking on whether or not it's a theory or hypothesis? Wow...judging by your avatar we all know what your opinion is, regarding who should be the Colts QB in 2012....It would be kinda funny too, if you had to change it IF he's not drafted.

Again I said it was out of left field so to speak....take it as you will.

So is this what we should do as posters? Make absolutely ridiculous claims based on no evidence whatsoever and then when I get questioned, just say "YOU DONT TALK TO IRSAY OR MANNING THEREFORE YOU DONT KNOW!!"

And what does my avatar have to do with anything? If my avatar had a picture of Unitas and my name was UnitasFan I would still have the same opinion.

[UndecidedFrog]

Thanks for that information.

Here is what is in his bio from his own website: http://www.methodist...euer/index.html

BIO

As a neurosurgery resident at the Indiana University School of Medicine in 1970, Dr. Feuer was once asked to stand in as a team physician at an I.U. football game. That fortuitous day blossomed into a 38-year career on the sidelines as the neurosurgical sports medicine consultant for Indiana University. Despite an extremely busy neurosurgical practice in Indianapolis, he accepted a position as one of the team physicians for the Indianapolis Colts when they arrived in 1984. Dr. Feuer has served as a neurosurgical consultant for the NFL since 1994, and he has also established consultancies with the Indianapolis 500, the Brickyard 400, Purdue University, Ball State, Indiana State, and numerous other central Indiana universities, colleges and high schools. In addition to receiving the prestigious Sagamore of the Wabash award and being voted a top doctor by The Indianapolis Monthly, his vast experience has earned him national recognition in neurosurgical sports medicine.

Following his retirement from surgical practice in 2006, Dr. Feuer has continued his neurosurgical sports medicine consultancies and staffs the neurosurgery residents’ clinic at the VA Hospital. He remains a member of Goodman Campbell Brain and Spine.

He claims to have been a Colts team doctor since 1984. He also claims to have retired from surgery since 2006.

I also think buccolts may be right, in that, Mr. Irsay may have terminated that relationship with an alleged team doctor that would clear any player and comment on it, without approval from the FO.

[UndecidedFrog]

So is this what we should do as posters? Make absolutely ridiculous claims based on no evidence whatsoever and then when I get questioned, just say "YOU DONT TALK TO IRSAY OR MANNING THEREFORE YOU DONT KNOW!!"

Don't you know that if you question anything that is positive for PM, you are a de facto Peyton hater?

[Meltdown]

Thanks for that information.

Here is what is in his bio from his own website: http://www.methodist...euer/index.html

He claims to have been a Colts team doctor since 1984. He also claims to have retired from surgery since 2006.

I also think buccolts may be right, in that, Mr. Irsay may have terminated that relationship with an alleged team doctor that would clear any player and comment on it, without approval from the FO.

Froggie great post and thank you for the information on Dr. Feuer. I agree that he may have been terminated for those reasons. Still could probably be some what of a reliable source.

[Jaric]

Is Bill Polian the guy on the grassy knoll?

[PrincetonTiger]

interesting Theory

[betheafan41]

i know i will get alot of critisizm for saying this but its my opinion. Manning is 36 coming off of 3 neck surgeries, nerves have not regenerated and even though he has done so much for the city of indianapolis and its fans, and how great he has been on the field, unless he will agree to a release and resign for a smaller contract its not a good idea to pick up the 28 million dollars and pass on Andrew Luck. yeah luck is unproven but so was manning in 98. Manning was said to be a really good QB when he gets to the NFL ,and Luck has had the same hype. when you have a QB who has been compared to Peyton Manning time and time again you dont trade the pick that will get him for anything. Im not saying i wouldnt love to have manning back in blue and white but im a colts fan first and a manning fan second. I was a fan before manning came along ill be a fan after he leaves.

[cmgww]

Hey...it was just a theory...errr....hypothesis.

[MR. Blueblood]

I might be wrong, because I'm working off and assumption (and we all know what that makes you), but I thought a NFL physical that cleared somebody to play had to be done with/by team/league doctors, and involved more than just looking at and X-Ray or MRI and saying yep good to go. If Irsay tweeted that Manning wasn't cleared by the Colts then the doctor in question either isn't employed by the Colts or doesn't have the authority to officially clear Manning to what the NFL standards are.

[buccolts]

Thanks for that information.

Here is what is in his bio from his own website: http://www.methodist...euer/index.html

He claims to have been a Colts team doctor since 1984. He also claims to have retired from surgery since 2006.

I also think buccolts may be right, in that, Mr. Irsay may have terminated that relationship with an alleged team doctor that would clear any player and comment on it, without approval from the FO.

Thanks for looking that up, and posting it.

I wasn't sure, just working off of what'd been said in the past, and on the premise that, if true (team doctor, and O.K. to play meant PM couldn't use team facilities), then, by Irsay making that statement (Colts doctors haven't O.K.'d him) he had to have distanced the doctor from the situation.

[buccolts]

So is this what we should do as posters? Make absolutely ridiculous claims based on no evidence whatsoever and then when I get questioned, just say "YOU DONT TALK TO IRSAY OR MANNING THEREFORE YOU DONT KNOW!!"

And what does my avatar have to do with anything? If my avatar had a picture of Unitas and my name was UnitasFan I would still have the same opinion.

Well, no. That's not what we SHOULD do, but it has been going on all off season. Actually, since November or so.

Problem is, there are very little FACTS being stewed about. None of us have spoken to Peyton or Irsay.

I don't find anything wrong with speculation. I just detest when an opinion is offered up as fact.

There's nothing wrong with ignorance.

Belligerence is difficult to take.

An ignorant belligerent is impossible is intolerable.

[WoolMagnet]

Well Irsay has already been caught in one false hood. He said that the Colts medical staff had not cleared Manning to play, but in reality it was the Colts Neurosurgeon that said " I would tell you to go play even if you were my own son " .

Now I have been thinking the same exact thing for quite sometime, I just never had the guts to post it. It is an on going saga that will hopefully be put to rest very shortly.

I have said in other threads that Irsay " cannot afford " to cut a healthy Peyton Manning. All people see is the 28 million he will owe to Peyton and the salary cap implications. They are not seeing the huge revenues to be lost for the city of Indianapolis from lack of ticket sales and etc.That will ultimately hurt Irsays pocket more than the 28 million that he will pay Peyton with.

Peyton will be back. I heard just this morning on espn radio, Chris Mortenson when asked " can Peyton throw or not " Mortenson said with great confidence that Peyton could throw the football and " looked " (key word) as good as he did prior to the surgery. He even said the Colts would be very interested in keeping him in the fold.

But he then goes on to say that Isay could still opt to cut him, but he thought that this was getting be more of an after thought as time moves on.

I know its semantics, but really, manning wasn't cleared to PLAY, but rather cleared to go out on the field and throw screens and hand the ball off. technically.

[Fr33UpFr33ney]

I agree with this, just not in that chronological order

[Warhorse]

Plausible.

[Jules]

It was definitely not a big ruse, or a conspiracy from the get go, but I do believe Manning will be back here. I think Irsay never had plans on cutting him anyway, if he is good to go.

There's just no way he's hoping Manning retires because of the prospect of playing Luck now. Manning healthy is guaranteed to win. Luck is less than a 50/50 (and that's being generous with regards to rookie QB's).

He wants both players on his team. That was his "Plan A" from the beginning, and he'll find a way to get it if Manning can play.

What happened to a team doogan. A team.

You know when we lose in the playoffs it's the teams fault. No QB alone is guaranteed to win when we need him to.

That scenario wouldn't be so far fetched if the Polians were still in charge. Listening to Polian on Sirius NFL radio, I got the impression that he would have re-signed Manning and drafted RGIII (probably after trading Down a couple of spots).

And this is why Irsay fired that old fogie. With his drafting history lately then RG3 is a bust.

If this team takes RG3 I will blow a gasket.

But, luckily they likely won't.

[coltsblue1844]

What happened to a team doogan. A team.

You know when we lose in the playoffs it's the teams fault. No QB alone is guaranteed to win when we need him to.

And this is why Irsay fired that old fogie. With his drafting history lately then RG3 is a bust.

If this team takes RG3 I will blow a gasket.

But, luckily they likely won't.

Feel the same way about RGIII. IF Peyton is 100% and we still ship him out of town and he has great success for another team...and we end up with a bust waiting to happen in RGIII...especially after how rought this past season was on us as fans...that would be enough to make anyone upset

[Jules]

Feel the same way about RGIII. IF Peyton is 100% and we still ship him out of town and he has great success for another team...and we end up with a bust waiting to happen in RGIII...especially after how rought this past season was on us as fans...that would be enough to make anyone upset

I really don't want to think about that happening lol. I still think Luck will be the choice for Irsay over RG3. I would be stunned if it was the other way around.

As for Peyton yeah.......not sure yet. This week has been very quiet though.

[schwamm]

yeah luck is unproven but so was manning in 98.

Hate to point out the elephant in the room, but so is Manning in '12.

We all want him to be the same player he was prior to '11, and I assume most of us want him to finish his career in Indy, but the reality is we just don't know what he is capable of right now. There are a ton of posters who seem to want to label Luck as a complete unknown and probable bust, and Manning as a definite to return to his old form. I suppose the these extremes allow for a clearer arguement, but the reality is almost guaranteed to be more like: both will be good, but neither likely as great as Manning was.

I really appreciate the OP's optimism, and hope Manning stays... not because I believe he will deliver more superbowls, but because I think he represents the team and Indianapolis so well.

[betheafan41]

Hate to point out the elephant in the room, but so is Manning in '12.

We all want him to be the same player he was prior to '11, and I assume most of us want him to finish his career in Indy, but the reality is we just don't know what he is capable of right now. There are a ton of posters who seem to want to label Luck as a complete unknown and probable bust, and Manning as a definite to return to his old form. I suppose the these extremes allow for a clearer arguement, but the reality is almost guaranteed to be more like: both will be good, but neither likely as great as Manning was.

I really appreciate the OP's optimism, and hope Manning stays... not because I believe he will deliver more superbowls, but because I think he represents the team and Indianapolis so well.

oh i agree with you, I really wish manning wasnt in this situation and never had to have the surgeries because its best for him to retire as a colt, but yeah basicaly its like hes back to being the number 1 draft pick. unproven and no one will know if he will be what he was before the surgeries or if he is going to be a complete waste of money. and at 36 years old it will be hard for him to work on getting better before he has to call it quits. thats why i keep trying to make a point its better to go with luck and let manning walk. its not that i dont want manning back, the guy will always be the best QB to ever wear the colts uniform and one of the best to ever step on a football field. and i think luck will be really good, maybe not Manning good (thats to be seen) i hope he will be as good as manning if not better, but i believe he will be good enough to deliver another super bowl to us fans and the city. maybe even 2 or 3 if irsay and the new gm and hc concentrate on the defensive side of the ball. because to be honest they bring back Wayne and Garcon and with clark addai,tamme, collie id say thats the perfect way to welcome andrew luck into the NFL, and if the defensive minded HC can make the colts defense into a top 10 defense in a year or two, could be better then what the saints have been and the patriots have been. IMO