The Cap

[ruksak]

Awesome thread and terrific resource, Frog!

Good job!

[UndecidedFrog]

Here are the individual breakout savings to the 2012 cap and beyond for each player cut:

http://www.colts.com/team/transactions.html

J. Thomas (2/7/12):

savings of $0.49MM to the 2012 cap

Diles (2/7/12):

savings of $1.0MM to the 2012 cap

Manning (3/7/12):

savings of $6.6MM to the 2012 cap

savings of $18MM to the 2013 cap

savings of $19MM to the 2014 cap

savings of $20MM to the 2015 cap

Brackett (3/9/12):

savings of $0.2MM to the 2012 cap

savings of $9MM to the 2013 cap

savings of $9MM to the 2014 cap

Bullitt (3/9/12):

savings of $1.065MM to 2012 cap

savings of $3.735MM to 2013 cap

Clark (3/9/12):

savings of $1.74MM to 2012 cap

savings of $8.12MM to 2013 cap

Addai (3/9/12):

savings of $1.04MM to 2012 cap

savings of $4.93MM to 2013 cap

Painter (3/9/12):

savings of $0.565MM to 2012 cap

[Malakai432]

Here are the individual breakout savings to the 2012 cap and beyond for each player cut:

http://www.colts.com/team/transactions.html

J. Thomas (2/7/12):

savings of $0.49MM to the 2012 cap

Diles (2/7/12):

savings of $1.0MM to the 2012 cap

Manning (3/7/12):

savings of $6.6MM to the 2012 cap

savings of $18MM to the 2013 cap

savings of $19MM to the 2014 cap

savings of $20MM to the 2015 cap

Brackett (3/9/12):

savings of $0.2MM to the 2012 cap

savings of $9MM to the 2013 cap

savings of $9MM to the 2014 cap

Bullitt (3/9/12):

savings of $1.065MM to 2012 cap

savings of $3.735MM to 2013 cap

Clark (3/9/12):

savings of $1.74MM to 2012 cap

savings of $8.12MM to 2013 cap

Addai (3/9/12):

savings of $1.04MM to 2012 cap

savings of $4.93MM to 2013 cap

Painter (3/9/12):

savings of $0.565MM to 2012 cap

So there should be an unbelievable amount of cap room in 2013 pending on if we sign some top quality FAs???

[WSO]

So there should be an unbelievable amount of cap room in 2013 pending on if we sign some top quality FAs???

yes

[colts89]

Something i don't get is that people are saying to wait untill 2013 to spend our cap and this year will be a down year.

If the cap is already cleared for those future years, what is stopping us from offering contracts right now that have alower first year pay and with the big money kicking in 2013 and beyond (with good signing bonuses) ? If we cut/trade Freeny we can also have some money to offer the first year FA's, although it may not be that much...

[UndecidedFrog]

So there should be an unbelievable amount of cap room in 2013 pending on if we sign some top quality FAs???

Yeah, in excess of $80MM right now.

Of course, roster moves made in the meantime will cut into that.

[UndecidedFrog]

Something i don't get is that people are saying to wait untill 2013 to spend our cap and this year will be a down year.

If the cap is already cleared for those future years, what is stopping us from offering contracts right now that have alower first year pay and with the big money kicking in 2013 and beyond (with good signing bonuses) ? If we cut/trade Freeny we can also have some money to offer the first year FA's, although it may not be that much...

Cap accounting permits the pro-ration of bonus dollars over contract terms.

So, when players are traded or cut before their contract term expires, these unamortized pro-rated pieces of their bonuses accelerate to hit the cut year cap.

Depending on when you cut them, pre June 1, or post June 1, they will hit the current year cap or split between current and next year cap, respectively.

This is what is commonly called dead cap space.

Getting rid of overpriced players will hurt. It depends on how you want to receive the pain. The team has chosen to take it all pre-June 1, which means all the pain now in the 2012 cap gets hit with the entire dead space.

[FireJimCaldwell]

It appears the cap will get a slight bump from t

he 2011 amount, $120.375 million to 120.6 million.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/10/2012-cap-expected-to-be-120-6-million/

It's still not a good idea having 31%+ tied up in players no longer on the team... It clears it up for next year, but will make this season eventful.

[UndecidedFrog]

With the new 2012 total team cap at $120.6MM, the updated cap space estimation is:

1) 32 contracted players with a 2012 cap hit of $86.01MM

2) Add Luck: 33 contracted players with a 2012 cap hit of $90.21MM

3) Add the premium above rookie minimums for picks #34 and #65 of $1.5MM and we have cap at $91.71MM

4) Add 20 remaining players to bring the roster up to a 53, all at rookie minimum salary and we have a total team cap at $99.51MM

5) With the 2012 total team cap at $120.6MM, this means we now have about $21.09MM in cap space to spend on FAs.

[GoColts8818]

Okay so we have roughly 20 million who do we go get?

I have had enough of looking back this week and it's painful enough I want to focus on the future on who people think we are going to try to bring in!

[IndyTrav]

Okay so we have roughly 20 million who do we go get?

I have had enough of looking back this week and it's painful enough I want to focus on the future on who people think we are going to try to bring in!

with cutting Freeney, I think it would be entirely possible to get both Nicks AND Mario Williams. Obviously thats probably not going to happen, but from the looks of it, it is something we could do!

Or, Nicks, Grubbs which would be sig. cheaper. But would shore up the line 10fold! Costanzo,Nicks,?,Grubbs,Illijuana....That would look pretty steller.....

[Kirie89]

Here are the individual breakout savings to the 2012 cap and beyond for each player cut:

http://www.colts.com...ansactions.html

Clark (3/9/12):

savings of $1.74MM to 2012 cap

savings of $8.12MM to 2013 cap

Do reserve/futures contracts count against the cap?

And what is Dallas Clark’s dead money, have seen numbers from around 2 to over 6 million?

[Meltdown]

And you know this how? Is there a golden rule in football where rookie QB's cannot make the playoffs or immediately come in and have success? Your post is chock full of assumptions, suggesting that we cannot win with a rookie or a young quarterback. This team may be rebuilding but they are no cleaveland browns. There is still quite a bit of talent on the team (Bethea, Freeney, Angerer, Collie, Clark, Addai, Brown, Powers) and throw in some of the potential re-signings or even get some players from the F/A market and it will still be a good team.

If Peyton is healthy last year and this team wins 9, 10, 11 or 12+ games, the Colts can afford to lose more of these players to free agency. We have all seen Manning make no-name WR's look good. If Manning is gone, the Colts should surround the rookie QB whomever it is, Luck or RG3, with talent on both sides of the ball to help him out. Just like the Bengals, Jets, and Ravens did with their rookie QBs.

Your right Cleveland was better last year. Saying we cannot be better with a Rookie QB does not leave much for improvement from a 2-14 season.

What Cincinnati, Carolina, Jets, and Ravens did with rookie QB's is the exception not the Norm, even Peyton was 3 and 13 in his first year but to your point that is better than 2-14.

[IndyTrav]

Your right Cleveland was better last year. Saying we cannot be better with a Rookie QB does not leave much for improvement from a 2-14 season.

What Cincinnati, Carolina, Jets, and Ravens did with rookie QB's is the exception not the Norm, even Peyton was 3 and 13 in his first year but to your point that is better than 2-14.

well, in the last 4 or so years, Im pretty sure, 1st and 2nd year QBs taking there teams to the playoffs has grown to significant portions. Dalton, Yates,Bradford, Ryan, Flacco, Sanchez, Tebow,Freeman, Stafford have all led there teams to the playoffs or quality years in there first or second full seasons.....its no longer the exception...and if you go a litte bit farther back, you run into Eli,Rivers,Big Ben......Its getting harder and harder to miss on a QB....

[UndecidedFrog]

Do reserve/futures contracts count against the cap?

And what is Dallas Clark’s dead money, have seen numbers from around 2 to over 6 million?

Since I do not have the details of the reserves/futures contracts, I assume them to be rookie minimums with no bonuses.

Clark's dead money space is $5.58MM in 2012.

[shevz]

Since I have no idea how usually a team spends in a play that was a free agent how many players can we take with this kind of money?

Sorry, im really lost with this cap thing, everytime I try to read about it seems like I get more lost :???:

[dgambill]

Since I have no idea how usually a team spends in a play that was a free agent how many players can we take with this kind of money?

Sorry, im really lost with this cap thing, everytime I try to read about it seems like I get more lost :???:

That money is enough to probably get two top level FAs or sign 4 or 5 starters on a team like ours. That said I see several 1 to 2 year contracts coming up on avg players to barely make us competitive until FA next year and a year or so of Luck under our belts to see where we need to go. To jus turn around and blow it when we won't be competitive for a couple years (playoff wise) would be no better than keeping what we had. We likely will roll over as much cap as possible to next year in my opinion once we have evaluated better our current players in our new schemes. This year we don't really know what we have and where we need to spend it...making signing big contracts a huge gamble.

[UndecidedFrog]

Since I have no idea how usually a team spends in a play that was a free agent how many players can we take with this kind of money?

Sorry, im really lost with this cap thing, everytime I try to read about it seems like I get more lost :???:

It depends on the quality of the FA, what they have recently achieved, and how teams view their potential.

To get a good idea of value in the FA market, it may help you to take a look at player contracts in general for different positions, and different quality in each position.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/dwight-freeney/

[Brooklyn Colt]

Carl Nicks and Ben Grubbs lets make it happen! Guaranteed 1,000 plus yard season for Brown and Luck won't end up on the injured reserve list

[WeSpy]

Cap is set for $120.6 million this year, a minimal increase over last year.

http://blogs.nfl.com/2012/03/11/salary-cap-set-at-120-6-million-for-2012/?module=HP11_headline_stack

[CR91]

the cap is 600000 more this year then last. does that make a difference or is it insufficient

[UndecidedFrog]

the cap is 600000 more this year then last. does that make a difference or is it insufficient

Previously, I anticipated a $1.3MM decrease in the total team cap.

Now, that it is going to be $120.6MM, we have $1.9MM of extra cap room with which to spend.

1) 32 contracted players with a 2012 cap hit of $86.01MM

2) Add Luck: 33 contracted players with a 2012 cap hit of $90.21MM

3) Add the premium above rookie minimums for picks #34 and #65 of $1.5MM and we have cap at $91.71MM

4) Add 20 remaining players to bring the roster up to a 53, all at rookie minimum salary and we have a total team cap at $99.51MM

5) With the 2012 total team cap at $120.6MM, this means we now have about $21.09MM in cap space to spend on FAs.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Previously, I anticipated a $1.3MM decrease in the total team cap.

Now, that it is going to be $120.6MM, we have $1.9MM of extra cap room with which to spend.

1) 32 contracted players with a 2012 cap hit of $86.01MM

2) Add Luck: 33 contracted players with a 2012 cap hit of $90.21MM

3) Add the premium above rookie minimums for picks #34 and #65 of $1.5MM and we have cap at $91.71MM

4) Add 20 remaining players to bring the roster up to a 53, all at rookie minimum salary and we have a total team cap at $99.51MM

5) With the 2012 total team cap at $120.6MM, this means we now have about $21.09MM in cap space to spend on FAs.

This thread is your baby, but I think it would be less confusing for some that don't understand it fully if you would say:

x players under contract =

x players with dead cap space =

Luck =x

Rookies= x

Total

Cap

Available

just a suggestion so you won't be hit with the same question over and over...

[CR91]

Previously, I anticipated a $1.3MM decrease in the total team cap.

Now, that it is going to be $120.6MM, we have $1.9MM of extra cap room with which to spend.

1) 32 contracted players with a 2012 cap hit of $86.01MM

2) Add Luck: 33 contracted players with a 2012 cap hit of $90.21MM

3) Add the premium above rookie minimums for picks #34 and #65 of $1.5MM and we have cap at $91.71MM

4) Add 20 remaining players to bring the roster up to a 53, all at rookie minimum salary and we have a total team cap at $99.51MM

5) With the 2012 total team cap at $120.6MM, this means we now have about $21.09MM in cap space to spend on FAs.

so we can either sign one big fa or about three small fas. is that about right?

[UndecidedFrog]

so we can either sign one big fa or about three small fas. is that about right?

Do not be confused about the amount. These are not real dollars. This is 2012 cap space.

$21MM in cap space can be allocated many different ways.

Consider the recent resigning of Mathis. 4 year, $36MM, with $15MM upfront.

The 2012 cap hit for that deal is only $5.75MM

If you want to extrapolate, you can consider that you can sign about 3.5 more FAs to similar contracts as Mathis received.

On the other hand, you can also assume that Freeney is cut, which would increase that $21MM figure to $35MM.

[UndecidedFrog]

2012 cap

32 players under contract = $55.17MM

7 players with dead cap space = $30.84MM

Luck = $4.20MM

20 Rookies= $9.3MM (allowing aggregate $1.5MM in premiums to picks #34 and #65)

Total = $99.51MM

Cap = $120.6MM

Available = $21.09MM

[FireJimCaldwell]

2012 cap

32 players under contract = $55.17MM

7 players with dead cap space = $30.84MM

Luck = $4.20MM

20 Rookies= $9.3MM (allowing aggregate $1.5MM in premiums to picks #34 and #65)

Total = $99.51MM

Cap = $120.6MM

Available = $21.09MM

Hayden & McClendon are carry overs from last year according to star article:

18 QB Manning, Peyton 10,400,000.00

58 LB Brackett, Gary 7,200,000.00

44 TE Clark, Dallas 6,946,666.00

7 QB Painter, Curtis 22,750.00

29 RB Addai, Joseph 3,720,000.00

CB Hayden, Kelvin 5,400,000.00

33 SS Bullitt, Melvin 2,670,000.00

5 QB Collins, Kerry 1,250,000.00

OL McClendon 217,500.00

37,826,916.00

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120310/SPORTS03/203100329/Grigson-Colts-let-go-were-cap-casualties-10-6M-savings-needed-long-term

They also had a different # on Painter and another one I believe...

[CR91]

Do not be confused about the amount. These are not real dollars. This is 2012 cap space.

$21MM in cap space can be allocated many different ways.

Consider the recent resigning of Mathis. 4 year, $36MM, with $15MM upfront.

The 2012 cap hit for that deal is only $5.75MM

If you want to extrapolate, you can consider that you can sign about 3.5 more FAs to similar contracts as Mathis received.

On the other hand, you can also assume that Freeney is cut, which would increase that $21MM figure to $35MM.

so we have a lot of money go after fa then

[UndecidedFrog]

Hayden & McClendon are carry overs from last year according to star article:

18 QB Manning, Peyton 10,400,000.00

58 LB Brackett, Gary 7,200,000.00

44 TE Clark, Dallas 6,946,666.00

7 QB Painter, Curtis 22,750.00

29 RB Addai, Joseph 3,720,000.00

CB Hayden, Kelvin 5,400,000.00

33 SS Bullitt, Melvin 2,670,000.00

5 QB Collins, Kerry 1,250,000.00

OL McClendon 217,500.00

37,826,916.00

http://www.indystar....eeded-long-term

They also had a different # on Painter and another one I believe...

I also have a different number for Clark at $5.58MM

[FireJimCaldwell]

I also have a different number for Clark at $5.58MM

That's the # I have for Clark as well.

[Portage Coltfans]

Most of my contract information comes from here: http://www.spotrac.c...dwight-freeney/

So far I have calculated the projected Colts team cap for 2012 from the above data source to be:

46 players (excludes Collins, whom I removed, but not his 2012 cap hit, which I kept)

that are responsible for $88.59MM

Add in Draft pick #1 at $4.2MM

and QB#3 at league minimum $0.4MM

1) We have 48 players, with a total of $93.18MM to address our own FAs, draftees and outside FAs.

Of the 48 players above, 15 will be without contract in 2012. They are:

Anderson, Brayton, Diem, Foster, Garcon, Gonzales, Lacey, Mathis, Muir, Richard, Saturday, Tamme, Toudouze, Wayne, Wheeler.

2) In 2011, these 15 players totaled up to $34.94MM in cap space.

3) The 2012 total team salary cap is projected to be $121.2MM (1% increase from the 2011 total team salary cap).

4) Taking the figure from item1 + figure from item 2 (rough idea, as if we can get these 15 players back for the same cap hit as last year,lol) = $128.12MM, or over the 2012 projected total team cap by $6.92MM.

Feel free to go to the source above and play around with what you think we can do to re-sign, restructure, cut these players to get below the cap again, if you particularly relish headaches.

Caution: Don't forget to accelerate the pro-rated portions of bonuses forward as cap hits, if you want to cut a player before his contract expires.

Happy hunting.

if the colts didn't pay manning the 28 mil, and then he resigned with a different contract. Would their have been cap problems? I'm not asking if you think he would or wouldn't have done that.

[FireJimCaldwell]

if the colts didn't pay manning the 28 mil, and then he resigned with a different contract. Would their have been cap problems? I'm not asking if you think he would or wouldn't have done that.

He'd have the same 10.4 cap hit shown above due to dead space. Plus what ever the contract dictated be assigned to 2012.

[UndecidedFrog]

From my research, Kelvin Hayden played all of 2010 as a Colt.

And he signed with the Falcons and played as a Falcon all of 2011.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/atlanta-falcons/kelvin-hayden/

His contract with the Colts was a 5 year $43MM deal with $22.5MM upfront that began with the 2009 season.

Therefore his total dead cap space should be (22.5/5) x 3= $13.5MM, and if released post June 1, 2011, then the cap hits should have been:

2011 cap hit = $6.75MM

2012 cap hit = $6.75MM

Do you have any information that is different?

[Portage Coltfans]

He'd have the same 10.4 cap hit shown above due to dead space. Plus what ever the contract dictated be assigned to 2012.

it makes me sick to see what we could've gotten for luck

[FireJimCaldwell]

From my research, Kelvin Hayden played all of 2010 as a Colt.

And he signed with the Falcons and played as a Falcon all of 2011.

http://www.spotrac.c.../kelvin-hayden/

His contract with the Colts was a 5 year $43MM deal with $22.5MM upfront that began with the 2009 season.

Therefore his total dead cap space should be (22.5/5) x 3= $13.5MM, and if released post June 1, 2011, then the cap hits should have been

2011 cap hit = $6.75MM

2012 cap hit = $6.75MM

Do you have any information that is different?

I'm with you on the (22.5/5)x3= 13.5

But based on post 6/1 I would view it aas

2011 4.5

2012 9.0

Obviously the Star has something entirely different.

http://indiana.sbnation.com/indianapolis-colts/2011/7/31/2306959/colts-release-veteran-corner-kelvin-hayden-hero-of-super-bowl-xli

Hayden was scheduled to count $9.1 mill against this year's cap for the Colts. His salary was $6.1 mill and his bonus $2.7. Hayden was owed an additional $5.4 mill in bonus money going forward. That money, coupled with this year's bonus, counts against 2011 Colts cap. This means the Colts will carry $8.1 in 'dead cap' for Hayden this year. Thus, Indy frees up $1 mill in cap space for 2011 by releasing him.

The worst thing about information like this, is what is trusted? Without the actual contract it's speculation at its best.

So based on that information, it seems that's where the Star got their 5.4 for 2012. The SBNation was trying to account for it all in 2010.

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2009/2/27/775071/hayden-contract-details-re

Hayden Contract Details released

Cornerback Kelvin Hayden will realize immediate and immense impact from the five-year, $43 million contract he signed earlier this month. He'll earn $17.48 million in 2009 through a $13.5 million signing bonus, $2 million roster bonus, $250,000 workout bonus and $1.73 million base salary. The deal also includes a $2.25 million roster bonus in 2010, and pays him $22.645 million in the first two years and $29 million in the first three.

Hayden will count $6.68 million against the '09 salary cap.

I'll leave the reconciling of deal with the CBA for monstersbox EDIT: I got impatient and did it myself in the comments

So if his SB was 13.5 it makes sense for it to be 2.7 in 2011, and 5.4 in 2012.

[FireJimCaldwell]

it makes me sick to see what we could've gotten for luck

It makes you wonder how much better the bounty would have been for the Colts.

[UndecidedFrog]

NM, I found the author's error in the article.

He agglomerated Clark and Hayden's dead cap space

He reported

Clark: $6.946666

Hayden: $5.4

Painter:

Total = 12.3666

The real numbers are

Clark: $5.58

Hayden $6.75

Total = 12.33

[Portage Coltfans]

It makes you wonder how much better the bounty would have been for the Colts.

historic

hopefully we aren't talking about what we could've had in 5 years

[UndecidedFrog]

NM,

I agree that the details of Hayden's contract make it clear his 2012 cap hit will be $5.4

Give me a few minutes to update my spreadsheet.

[UndecidedFrog]

2012 cap

updated to reflect K. Hayden and J. McClendon carryover cap hits

32 players under contract = $55.17MM

9 players with dead cap space = $36.46MM

Luck = $4.20MM

20 Rookies= $9.3MM (allowing aggregate $1.5MM in premiums to picks #34 and #65)

Total = $105.13MM

Cap = $120.6MM

Available = $15.47MM