The Cap

[UndecidedFrog]

I read on twitter that all these moves (including Peyton) cleared 51 million in cap space for the up coming season. That is before Freeney's contract is addressed which is going to be one way or another. That came from Jason La Canfora if you want a source.

He probably has not accounted for the dead cap hits that need to be absorbed in 2012.

Dead cap space = $30.84MM. see posts above this one to see how that is allocated.

[Superman]

I read on twitter that all these moves (including Peyton) cleared 51 million in cap space for the up coming season. That is before Freeney's contract is addressed which is going to be one way or another. That came from Jason La Canfora if you want a source.

Cap space? I don't think that's accurate. Real money? Very possible. $28 million bonus for Manning, plus base salary of $5 million; Brackett's base salary of $5 million; Clark's base salary of $4.53 million; Addai's base salary of $2.9 million; Bullitt's base salary of $2.4 million; Painter at $565k. That's over $48 million right there. I don't know what Kerry Collins salary would have been, but that was never going to be paid anyways.

[GoColts8818]

Cap space? I don't think that's accurate. Real money? Very possible. $28 million bonus for Manning, plus base salary of $5 million; Brackett's base salary of $5 million; Clark's base salary of $4.53 million; Addai's base salary of $2.9 million; Bullitt's base salary of $2.4 million; Painter at $565k. That's over $48 million right there. I don't know what Kerry Collins salary would have been, but that was never going to be paid anyways.

Just reporting what he said. Maybe he didn't take into account things like cap hits as well. It's La Con Fora it wouldn't be the first time he wasn't 100% right about something.

[UndecidedFrog]

Someone check my math...

Add in the dead space and we're roughly looking at $65,842,750.00. Then add in Andrew Luck's expected hit of $5,000.000.00

So that is $70,842,750.00 in expenditures for the 2012 season. Leaving us $49,157,250.00 to spend on 34 remaining roster spots (53 players - 18 players currently under contract = 34 roster spots (assuming Luck) left to fill.) assuming $120,000.000.00 cap.

That averages out to $1,445,801.47 per remaining roster spot.

There is no dead space in 2013 cap. I am assuming these cuts will be treated as pre June 1 cuts, therefore hitting entirely in 2012 cap.

I think you are confusing the years. 2012 is not 2013.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

I think you are confusing the years. 2012 is not 2013.

Yep! smh

Public School Education: St. Andrew's Catholic School, PS #63, T.C. Steele Junior High #98, John Marshall High School.

[UndecidedFrog]

UF, I heard on the radio that teams did not have to be under the cap until the 2013 season. If that is true then can teams spend above the cap this year as long as they are under the cap for 2013?

That is news to me. From my understanding, you must be under the cap by a certain date, every year.

[Jaric]

So frog, am I understanding this correctly that next year all these contracts are off our books?

[UndecidedFrog]

Yep! smh

Public School Education: St. Andrew's Catholic School, PS #63, T.C. Steele Junior High #98, John Marshall High School.

Just re-read my post #63 in this thread and you will be fine.

[UndecidedFrog]

So frog, am I understanding this correctly that next year all these contracts are off our books?

Yes.

For those interested, with the recent cuts,

the 2013 roster now has 18 contracted players, and a total cap hit of $35MM, well below the anticipated total team cap of $120MM.

[dgambill]

Addai, Clark and Bullitt haven't contributed in two years, including the 2010 playoff appearance. How does cutting players that weren't even playing the past two years make us worse?

If anything, these moves allow us to get better at positions that we need help at (offensive line, safety, defensive tackle, etc.)

Sorry I was thinking bethea not bullitt. My bad. Clark however I think has value for a ROOKIE qb. He runs good routes and has good hands. Luck used his TEs a lot at Stanford so I really saw him as a security blanket with Tamme. Just because his contract wasn't great anymore doesn't mean he had to go. If he was getting healthy he would be better than a rookie (been reported many times this is a poor TE draft) or whats left on the FA market. IMO

[HarassedOffTheSite]

If Chap's tweet is accurate, the Colts have now cut Addai, Brackett, Bullitt, Clark and Painter.

So here is my revised team salary cap that takes all the above into account:

1) 32 contracted players with a 2012 cap hit of $86.01MM

2) Add Luck: 33 contracted players with a 2012 cap hit of $90.21MM

3) Add the premium above rookie minimums for picks #34 and #65 of $1.5MM and we have cap at $91.71MM

4) Add 20 remaining players to bring the roster up to a 53, all at rookie minimum salary and we have a total team cap at $99.51MM

5) Assuming the 2012 cap will be $119MM, this means we now have about $19.5MM in cap space to spend on FAs.

Got it! Thanks for the breakdown.

[Superman]

Sorry I was thinking bethea not bullitt. My bad. Clark however I think has value for a ROOKIE qb. He runs good routes and has good hands. Luck used his TEs a lot at Stanford so I really saw him as a security blanket with Tamme. Just because his contract wasn't great anymore doesn't mean he had to go. If he was getting healthy he would be better than a rookie (been reported many times this is a poor TE draft) or whats left on the FA market. IMO

Yeah, for whatever reason, this draft doesn't grade high on tight ends. It's deep virtually everywhere else, though.

But the cap hit for this season, coupled with the massive savings for 2013, made this is a no-brainer decision, I think.

[JWF]

Frog...If we trade Freeney dont we still get 14 million in cap savings this year since the trading team will assume his base? I know we're on the hook for the bonus portion regardless.

[Superman]

That is news to me. From my understanding, you must be under the cap by a certain date, every year.

I think some are confusing the 95% minimum spend with the cap restrictions, especially since 2010 was an uncapped year. Lots of dates and percentages being thrown around these past few months.

[dgambill]

That is news to me. From my understanding, you must be under the cap by a certain date, every year.

Teams are allowed to go over the cap by I believe 3 million dollars but have to take it out the next year....subsequently if they are under they can use towards the next years cap. So next year we wouldn't just have the 40 million we saved from the cuts we made but anything we save this year as well. I highly doubt we will sign ANY quality FAs this year just to save the cap to add to next year since the goal is to suck as bad as we can this year.

[UndecidedFrog]

Frog...If we trade Freeney dont we still get 14 million in cap savings this year since the trading team will assume his base? I know we're on the hook for the bonus portion regardless.

Yes. Either a trade or a cut will result in a cap savings of $14.035MM to the 2012 cap.

[JWF]

Yes. Either a trade or a cut will result in a cap savings of $14.035MM to the 2012 cap.

Makes me think the Colts demands maybe wont be that high than. Kind of like a sign and trade in basketball essentially.

[typhoon2285]

soooo how much do we have open in cap as of this moment

[UndecidedFrog]

soooo how much do we have open in cap as of this moment

Read my post #63 in this thread, which is also copied in post #91 in this thread.

[dgambill]

I just see us saving as much cap space this year as possible and rolling it over towards next year. We simply just need to protect Luck with a power running game and a limited passing game. Going to be a terrible season as far as I am concerned. VERY CONSERVATIVE offense coming next year..hopefully somebody buys some tickets and all the games don't get blacked out. We should have lots of money to spend next year though if we don't reach to far this year. All I hope is we don't throw tons of cash towards some bad FAs.

[typhoon2285]

is tht amount without wayne, sat, diem, garcon?????

[GoColts8818]

is tht amount without wayne, sat, diem, garcon?????

They are free agents so they don't cost anything against the cap unless we resign them.

[UndecidedFrog]

is tht amount without wayne, sat, diem, garcon?????

Yes, since Wayne, Saturday, Diem and Garcon are FAs, they are not in the cap.

[UndecidedFrog]

With all the recent cuts, including their dead space taken into account, it seems the cap for 2012 is now at $99.5MM giving us about $19.5MM to spend.

What this also does is free up the 2013 cap. Thus far, I have 18 contracted players in 2013, accounting for about $35MM in cap space. Add Luck to that and we have 19 contracted players and $41.57MM, giving us lots of money to spend.

[jwilli69]

With all the recent cuts, including their dead space taken into account, it seems the cap for 2012 is now at $99.5MM giving us about $19.5MM to spend.

What this also does is free up the 2013 cap. Thus far, I have 18 contracted players in 2013, accounting for about $35MM in cap space. Add Luck to that and we have 19 contracted players and $41.57MM, giving us lots of money to spend.

Going to be a lot of coin to spend 1 year after Mr Luck gets some good experience, the oline gets to play more and the defense learns how to play 3-4 hybrid. I think this is a solid model to use and I look forward to 1 really entertaining season and a get to know your new Indy Colts and then a quick start in 2013 into competitive football. By year 4, we should be able to compete for the big show again and maybe in year 3 if all goes smooth. Of course it could all just fall apart and never jell well but I prefer to take this whole change positively.

[GoColts8818]

Going to be a lot of coin to spend 1 year after Mr Luck gets some good experience, the oline gets to play more and the defense learns how to play 3-4 hybrid. I think this is a solid model to use and I look forward to 1 really entertaining season and a get to know your new Indy Colts and then a quick start in 2013 into competitive football. By year 4, we should be able to compete for the big show again and maybe in year 3 if all goes smooth. Of course it could all just fall apart and never jell well but I prefer to take this whole change positively.

Yep gotta watch the free agent class of 2013 the Colts can probably have their choice of players that will be on the market. That's why I a not so worried about getting everything off-season because we can't and it would probably be better served to get some of these guys in the 2013 class than trading away the future for a couple more picks in this year's darft.

[Kirie89]

If Chap's tweet is accurate, the Colts have now cut Addai, Brackett, Bullitt, Clark and Painter.

So here is my revised team salary cap that takes all the above into account:

1) 32 contracted players with a 2012 cap hit of $86.01MM

2) Add Luck: 33 contracted players with a 2012 cap hit of $90.21MM

3) Add the premium above rookie minimums for picks #34 and #65 of $1.5MM and we have cap at $91.71MM

4) Add 20 remaining players to bring the roster up to a 53, all at rookie minimum salary and we have a total team cap at $99.51MM

5) Assuming the 2012 cap will be $119MM, this means we now have about $19.5MM in cap space to spend on FAs.

I’m trying to make my own cap and have some questions:

• Using your source, I found only 27 players under contract, who are the last five and what are their cap numbers?
  
• What is Kerry Collins cap numbers?
  
• What are the new cap numbers for each of the five newly cut players? (Does any other bonus than the remaining singing bonus count for dead cap?)
  
• Is the 1.5 million for #34 and #65 in addition to the 390,000 for each of them?
  
• I read something somewhere about some dead cap after Kelvin Hayden, is that correct?
  

[Ralla32]

Don't forget after this year we will also have a high draft pick again. So according to frog in 2013 we will have roughly $42 million to spend and probably another top 10 draft slot.

Hot darn that makes me happy....balance please.....just balance a great D and and great O. pleeeeeeease

[UndecidedFrog]

I’m trying to make my own cap and have some questions:

• Using your source, I found only 27 players under contract, who are the last five and what are their cap numbers?
  
• What is Kerry Collins cap numbers?
  
• What are the new cap numbers for each of the five newly cut players? (Does any other bonus than the remaining singing bonus count for dead cap?)
  
• Is the 1.5 million for #34 and #65 in addition to the 390,000 for each of them?
  
• I read something somewhere about some dead cap after Kelvin Hayden, is that correct?
  

1) I supplement my main source with this:

http://www.coltsauth...salary-cap.html

2) The Kerry Collins dead cap space for 2012 is $1.25MM

3) All pro-rated bonuses (signing and miscl) accelerate to the cut year if done pre June 1. You don't pay their annual base salary, but the bonus pieces accelerate.

So, for Addai, as an example, you eliminate his base salaries in 2012 and 2013 of $2.9 and $3.07, respectively, and you accelerate his 2013 bonus proration of $1.86 forward into 2012 such that the total dead cap hit in 2012 is $3.72.

4) Yes, but not for each of them. Allocate $1MM for pcik #34 and $0.5MM for pick #65.

5) I don't know of any dead cap space for Kelvin Hayden.

I congratulate you on your initiative to get behind the numbers.

[UndecidedFrog]

Don't forget after this year we will also have a high draft pick again. So according to frog in 2013 we will have roughly $42 million to spend and probably another top 10 draft slot.

Hot darn that makes me happy....balance please.....just balance a great D and and great O. pleeeeeeease

You will have more than $42MM to spend. More like $80MM to spend, depending on what additional roster moves are made this year.

[GoColts00]

You will have more than $42MM to spend. More like $80MM to spend, depending on what additional roster moves are made this year.

Darelle Revis will be 29 in the 2014 season and he can't be franchise tagged according to his contract!

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/columns/story?columnist=cimini_rich&id=5544585

[Kirie89]

1) I supplement my main source with this:

http://www.coltsauth...salary-cap.html

2) The Kerry Collins dead cap space for 2012 is $1.25MM

3) All pro-rated bonuses (signing and miscl) accelerate to the cut year if done pre June 1. You don't pay their annual base salary, but the bonus pieces accelerate.

So, for Addai, as an example, you eliminate his base salaries in 2012 and 2013 of $2.9 and $3.07, respectively, and you accelerate his 2013 bonus proration of $1.86 forward into 2012 such that the total dead cap hit in 2012 is $3.72.

4) Yes, but not for each of them. Allocate $1MM for pcik #34 and $0.5MM for pick #65.

5) I don't know of any dead cap space for Kelvin Hayden.

I congratulate you on your initiative to get behind the numbers.

Thanks

[UndecidedFrog]

May I ask that you pin this thread so that everyone can refer to it easily, especially for next week when FA starts, and as I update the cap periodically with the anticipated roster moves?

[21isSuperman]

May I ask that you pin this thread so that everyone can refer to it easily, especially for next week when FA starts, and as I update the cap periodically with the anticipated roster moves?

Consider it done

[UndecidedFrog]

Here are the individual breakout savings to the 2012 cap and beyond for each player cut:

Brackett:

Savings of $0.2MM to the 2012 cap

savings of $9MM to the 2013 cap

savings of $9MM to the 2014 cap

Bullitt:

savings of $1.065MM to 2012 cap

savings of $3.735MM to 2013 cap

Clark:

savings of $1.74MM to 2012 cap

savings of $8.12MM to 2013 cap

Addai:

savings of $1.04MM to 2012 cap

savings of $4.93MM to 2013 cap

Painter:

savings of $0.565MM to 2012 cap

[Superman]

$26 million in free cap space in 2013 from these cuts.

[atapcl]

It does not seem like a lot to spend in 2012 to be competitive now. Maybe enough to sign G Ben Grubbs and compete for Garcon. In a deep draft we could use a couple extra 2nd round picks. Now I see why Grigson promised to find a starter in each round.

[Andy]

I love the cap space going forward, and that's due to the recent releases. It can help us sign players to bigger contracts who are currently on rookie contracts. It's a great move going forward and it makes me even more exicted about the future. Now lets dump Freeney and add tons of money to the Cap Space. If I'm not mistaken, that would add 14M. This team is going to be great and young, maybe they could end up like a more consistent and better Bucs.

[UndecidedFrog]

I love the cap space going forward, and that's due to the recent releases. It can help us sign players to bigger contracts who are currently on rookie contracts. It's a great move going forward and it makes me even more exicted about the future. Now lets dump Freeney and add tons of money to the Cap Space. If I'm not mistaken, that would add 14M. This team is going to be great and young, maybe they could end up like a more consistent and better Bucs.

Yes, if you cut or trade Freeney, the Colts get $14.035MM more cap space in 2012.

[dgambill]

As long as we spend it well. We have to remember that without Peyton Manning there is little incentive for FAs to play in Indy. Small market...not a lot to offer players as far as endorsements and lets be honest this isn't exactly a city booming with night life/lifestyle choices that many would like to go to. After all we have done to our Franchise players little to suggest that we would treat FAs any better. Just because we will have money doesn't mean players will want to play for us. Hopefully Pagano can bring in an attractive style because we will have to overpay to get people to want to come here. FAs like big markets, player coaches, big money. The only thing identifiable about the Colts that would attract people to play for us before was to come try to win a super bowl with Peyton Manning so we will have a lot of work to do to change our image.