TJ Green at CB

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, will426 said:

I thought he was drafted as a safety period lol pagano had this fascination with interchangeable safeties & green fit that because of both his size and also his speed so hard to say which safety position he was drafted for 

 

Which position did he play?

[will426]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

Which position did he play?

I know what position he played which was SS but pagano has said multiple times he liked interchangeable safeties who could do both and so green fits that as someone who "could" play both lol buttt as we know that's a long shot as of now but i understand what you're saying Supe

[Superman]

13 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

 

A lot of people thought Blake Bortles could be coached up too...

 

 

*

 

But not you. You knew after 400 snaps that Blake Bortles was no good and the Jags should cut him. Or just play him on special teams... 

[funktacious2]

On 8/15/2017 at 4:56 PM, stitches said:

I have no idea what part of Green's performance in college, in his NFL rookie year or in this year's camp and preseason makes Pagano think he can cover as a safety, let alone as a corner. This feels like he's trying to throw spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks. SMH

 

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, MacDee1975 said:

Can't wait until this guy eventually meets his ultimate destiny, being cut, so that I don't have to read discussions like this anymore.

 

Why would you write this?

 

Why would even THINK THIS?

 

Why would ANY Colts fan think this?

 

Green has only been on the team for a little more than a year and already you're complaining about being on the team too long and you can't wait until he's cut.       My, my, my.....     how you've sufered.

 

Until a player is cut, traded,  signs elsewhere as a FA,  or retires,   I'm ALWAYS hoping that the player will improve.

 

And let's be clear.     Green isn't being tried out at Corner because he's doing badly this year.     It's the opposite, Green is being tried at corner now because he's having mostly a good camp.     Not a bad one.     So, we may have a decent player.

 

Who says that?     Pagano and Monachino,  our DC.        I'll get his quote and post it here in a minute....

 

Here is the passage from a story posted yesterday.....

 

As he enters his second NFL season, he’s drawn praise from Pagano and defensive coordinator Ted Monachino, who have said the game has noticeably started to slow down for Green, a wide receiver his freshman season at Clemson before making the move to safety the following year.

But with some injuries at cornerback, Pagano said he just thought it was time to gauge the 6-foot-3, 211-pound Green’s interest in beginning to learn the position with three preseason games still left before the Colts open up the regular season Sept. 10 against the Los Angeles Rams.

“We’re missing some guys in the backfield — we’ve got a couple corners out — and we’ve got a tall, fast guy that’s a good football player,” Pagano said of Green at cornerback. “And at the end of the day, we’re going to find the best four guys (in the secondary).”
 

[ColtsBlueFL]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

But not you. You knew after 400 snaps that Blake Bortles was no good and the Jags should cut him. Or just play him on special teams... 

 

Only a Ninja could do so...

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

3 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I don't think his problem is with reading and reacting. His problem is tracking the ball when it's in the air, and sticking with the receiver as the ball arrives. He'll have to do both as a corner. 

Reacting would be attacking the ball, and reading ie which one would be sticking to the receiver, IMO you take some of that away at corner when you say this is your guy, cover him don't let him catch the ball. I don't think he is the ball hawk type, make it real simple for him!

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, JRoss1997 said:

I'm not a Psychiatrist but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.  This seems to be a good place to set up my practice.  Now if I can find my script pad for Xanax.........

 

Welcome to the Website!

 

This is a great post!     Love it!       You'll do just fine here!!   

 

 

[coltsfeva]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Why would you write this?

 

Why would even THINK THIS?

 

Why would ANY Colts fan think this?

 

Green has only been on the team for a little more than a year and already you're complaining about being on the team too long and you can't wait until he's cut.       My, my, my.....     how you've sufered.

 

Until a player is cut, traded,  signs elsewhere as a FA,  or retires,   I'm ALWAYS hoping that the player will improve.

 

And let's be clear.     Green isn't being tried out at Corner because he's doing badly this year.     It's the opposite, Green is being tried at corner now because he's having mostly a good camp.     Not a bad one.     So, we may have a decent player.

 

Who says that?     Pagano and Monachino,  our DC.        I'll get his quote and post it here in a minute....

 

Here is the passage from a story posted yesterday.....

 

As he enters his second NFL season, he’s drawn praise from Pagano and defensive coordinator Ted Monachino, who have said the game has noticeably started to slow down for Green, a wide receiver his freshman season at Clemson before making the move to safety the following year.

But with some injuries at cornerback, Pagano said he just thought it was time to gauge the 6-foot-3, 211-pound Green’s interest in beginning to learn the position with three preseason games still left before the Colts open up the regular season Sept. 10 against the Los Angeles Rams.

“We’re missing some guys in the backfield — we’ve got a couple corners out — and we’ve got a tall, fast guy that’s a good football player,” Pagano said of Green at cornerback. “And at the end of the day, we’re going to find the best four guys (in the secondary).”
 

Green also looked pretty quick when they used him on a blitz Sunday.

Be nice to see him try a CB blitz, even as a big nickle. If he can develop his cover skills, he could be utilized covering some of these TEs that are freaks. He'd probably be a decent gunner as well. 

 

I'm with New Colts Fan, why wouldn't we at least HOPE for him to do well ?

[TDewar1987]

Man im glad some of the anti-green guys arent the GM. Give the kid a break. Not every great nfl player that steps out on the field kills it their first season. 

[Defjamz26]

Because you usually have to be good at either CB or safety first before being moved to the other position. Butler is a good example. Excelled as a slot CB first, then moved to FS. However it's harder for a safety to convert to a CB. CB isn't going to be easier for him. At his size, it'll actually be harder.

 

Richard Sherman was a WR until his senior year at Stanford.  He was a good athlete that didn't find his niche until he got into the league and earned it.

 

We should give TJ the same chance and hope he makes the most of it instead of completely dismissing him after one year.

 

Again. An exception to the rule is not THE rule. Doesn't really matter who did what in the past. Case by case basis. Green is not Sherman. He is not Landon Collins. Dorsett is not Reggie Wayne. Etc...

 

There's nothing wrong with optimism and saying you hope he gets better. But if you're going to defend him it has to be more than just mentioning his measureables for the 100th time, or providing some example of a player that was an exception to the rule for the 1,000th time. That's always my whole issue when we talk about disappointing players.

 

I don't mind if someone else sees it different then me. But I get tired of hearing the same arguments for every player and everyone thinking the Colts are the special team that's going to all the exception to the rules.

 

 

*

[Steamboat_Shaun]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Why would you write this?

 

Why would even THINK THIS?

 

Why would ANY Colts fan think this?

 

Green has only been on the team for a little more than a year and already you're complaining about being on the team too long and you can't wait until he's cut.       My, my, my.....     how you've sufered.

 

Until a player is cut, traded,  signs elsewhere as a FA,  or retires,   I'm ALWAYS hoping that the player will improve.

 

 

Yeah I never understood the whole "I hope this 2nd round pick ends up being a bust so I can say I told ya so" stance that some Colts fans have. It makes no sense to me whatsoever.

[tweezy32]

I personally think he will probably be cut next year or the following..  Unless he some how becomes good..  I really hope he becomes a great player for us. Hope he learns a lot more in the next few weeks and can start and help out or defense! 

[Defjamz26]

 

I know we had a freak show at the combine, but you guys also need to realize that his size is going to be an obstacle for him playing CB.

 

 

Bigger CBs are hard to come by. So far the most successful "big" CB is Sherman at 6'3" but he also plays in a zone scheme that masks his flaws, and self admittedly doesn't guard small receivers well. The next best is Trumaine Johnson but he's not exactly a shutdown CB.

 

 

If Green was 6'1" I'd see it but at 6'3" in a press man scheme, the chances are very low he'll be good at CB. 6'1" is about the cap for CB height. The range is 5'10" to 6'1". Any shorter or taller than that and there's cause for concern. He'll have the same flaws that Sherman has and then some because he's just not as talented as Sherman. Plus a safety-to-CB move is much harder than the reverse. I can't really think of a recent player who has made that switch and been successful. That's not to say that means if X player was a bad safety but played well when he moved to CB,then Green can do it. Then I'd be a hypocrite. What I'm saying is there isn't even a trend of data to follow to make some sort of accurate assertion of why this could work.

 

 

He's a bigger guy, he wasn't good at safety, didn't have good college tape, struggles in coverage, making a rare change, and is on his 3rd position change in 4 years. There's like zero logical reason to think this even MIGHT work.

 

 

 

*

 

[NDcolt]

Wake up, a player that needed ALL the reps he could get AT Safety all of a sudden is no longer getting reps at THAT position means if he can't switch to CB, he's gone this yr.  Ballard don't give an * about Grigs projects, he's trying to build a winner & you don't do that with PROJECTS.  It's over 

[SP_21]

The coaching staff should bulk Green up to 225-230 pounds and see if he can play LB. Use him as "joker" type player. 

[superrep1967]

On 8/15/2017 at 5:06 PM, bravo4460 said:

I think Green actually played pretty well in the first preseason game for the little he did.

 

Ted also said very good things about Green in camp.

I like it he is tall, fast and athletic. So maybe it's going to be a good thing will see. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

1 minute ago, NDcolt said:

Wake up, a player that needed ALL the reps he could get AT Safety all of a sudden is no longer getting reps at THAT position means if he can't switch to CB, he's gone this yr.  Ballard don't give an * about Grigs projects, he's trying to build a winner & you don't do that with PROJECTS.  It's over 

 

Who do you have at corner then? Outside of Davis & 2 rookies (both of which I like a lot), everyone else is hurt, & we've only played 1 preseason game.

[superrep1967]

51 minutes ago, coltsfeva said:

Green also looked pretty quick when they used him on a blitz Sunday.

Be nice to see him try a CB blitz, even as a big nickle. If he can develop his cover skills, he could be utilized covering some of these TEs that are freaks. He'd probably be a decent gunner as well. 

 

I'm with New Colts Fan, why wouldn't we at least HOPE for him to do well ?

Yes, true Colts fans should why wouldn't you. I myself am rooting for him and maybe they find a gem. If not they still seem to like him at safety. So it's a win win!.

[NDcolt]

2 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Who do you have at corner then? Outside of Davis & 2 rookies (both of which I like a lot), everyone else is hurt, & we've only played 1 preseason game.

Just replying about TJ, unless they seen enough improvement at the safety position, which I highly doubt, there is no way in Gods green earth you experiment at another position at this level unless you given up on him?  He can't cover a tree as a safety but anyways.  Expect a waiver wire move at cb if injuries continue

[ColtsBlueFL]

23 minutes ago, NDcolt said:

Just replying about TJ, unless they seen enough improvement at the safety position, which I highly doubt, there is no way in Gods green earth you experiment at another position at this level unless you given up on him?  He can't cover a tree as a safety but anyways.  Expect a waiver wire move at cb if injuries continue

 

We'll all see TJ vs. Dallas, form what I heard.  It'll be out there for all to see.

Monachino gives a couple of reasons-

 

" Monachino said the staff feels comfortable giving Green the opportunity not just because they feel he has the skills that can translate well to the position, but because the move “allowed us to balance some things” around the rest of the secondary."
 

There will likely be no waiver wire activity until after the final roster cut (just one this year, not 2 like before) due on September 3 by 4:00 O'Clock pm EST.

[NDcolt]

As a Colts fan, I'm really hoping I'm overreacting to this move as I love this kids measurables!  Hope I'm wrong.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

31 minutes ago, NDcolt said:

there is no way in Gods green earth you experiment at another position at this level unless you given up on him?

 

I don't pretend to know all the ins & outs of this game, but I don't think that's how the NFL works man.

[NDcolt]

20 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

I don't pretend to know all the ins & outs of this game, but I don't think that's how the NFL works man.

Me either Steamboat but let's break this down & see what sticks:

 

1- playerA worst graded player at position in NFL, many say should never been drafted in 7 rds let alone 2nd.

2- playerA in 2nd yr needed not just a transformation but a miracle in the offseason to learn the position at the highest level to compete for a spot that was WIDE OPEN.

3- playerA in mini-camps/training camp is NOT taking 1st team reps even tho Hooker/Gaethers NOT participating???  Writing was on the wall but you can't see the writing wearing blue shades.

4- PlayerA 2+ weeks into training camp SUDDENLY is moved to another position BEFORE even making strides to become 2nd string at the safety position??

5- Fans think athleticism will transfer to CB & believe what our coaching staff is telling them instead of reading between the lines.

6- no lock to make the safety position with 2-3 wks before opening season & moved to CB at this level = Pray as the last hope.  JM.02

[Andrew Luck fan club]

Just wanna say that i hope TJ has success either at SS or CB. Or anywhere really.  Just because I don't think he's a good player, doesn't mean I don't want him to succeed. 

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, coltsfeva said:

Green also looked pretty quick when they used him on a blitz Sunday.

Be nice to see him try a CB blitz, even as a big nickle. If he can develop his cover skills, he could be utilized covering some of these TEs that are freaks. He'd probably be a decent gunner as well. 

 

I'm with New Colts Fan, why wouldn't we at least HOPE for him to do well ?

 

Yeah,  I noticed that blitz too...   Green forced the QB to dodge him and step up and right into the arms of TY McGill. I liked that a lot!

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

 

 

 

 

 

 

50 minutes ago, NDcolt said:

Me either Steamboat but let's break this down & see what sticks:

 

1- playerA worst graded player at position in NFL, many say should never been drafted in 7 rds let alone 2nd.

2- playerA in 2nd yr needed not just a transformation but a miracle in the offseason to learn the position at the highest level to compete for a spot that was WIDE OPEN.

3- playerA in mini-camps/training camp is NOT taking 1st team reps even tho Hooker/Gaethers NOT participating???  Writing was on the wall but you can't see the writing wearing blue shades.

4- PlayerA 2+ weeks into training camp SUDDENLY is moved to another position BEFORE even making strides to become 2nd string at the safety position??

5- Fans think athleticism will transfer to CB & believe what our coaching staff is telling them instead of reading between the lines.

6- no lock to make the safety position with 2-3 wks before opening season & moved to CB at this level = Pray as the last hope.  JM.02

 

Can you find me just one mainstream media outlet that said right after the draft that Green shouldn't have been drafted at all.      Just one media outlet.

 

I said it in another post,  but perhaps it's worth repeating....    Green isn't being moved because he's not cutting it at Safety.      He's being moved because the need became greater at corner.        And the people that say that are Chuck Pagano and Ted Monachino....      here are the comments.

 

 

As he enters his second NFL season, he’s drawn praise from Pagano and defensive coordinator Ted Monachino, who have said the game has noticeably started to slow down for Green, a wide receiver his freshman season at Clemson before making the move to safety the following year.

But with some injuries at cornerback, Pagano said he just thought it was time to gauge the 6-foot-3, 211-pound Green’s interest in beginning to learn the position with three preseason games still left before the Colts open up the regular season Sept. 10 against the Los Angeles Rams.

“We’re missing some guys in the backfield — we’ve got a couple corners out — and we’ve got a tall, fast guy that’s a good football player,” Pagano said of Green at cornerback. “And at the end of the day, we’re going to find the best four guys (in the secondary).”

[Steamboat_Shaun]

48 minutes ago, NDcolt said:

Me either Steamboat but let's break this down & see what sticks:

 

1- playerA worst graded player at position in NFL, many say should never been drafted in 7 rds let alone 2nd.

2- playerA in 2nd yr needed not just a transformation but a miracle in the offseason to learn the position at the highest level to compete for a spot that was WIDE OPEN.

3- playerA in mini-camps/training camp is NOT taking 1st team reps even tho Hooker/Gaethers NOT participating???  Writing was on the wall but you can't see the writing wearing blue shades.

4- PlayerA 2+ weeks into training camp SUDDENLY is moved to another position BEFORE even making strides to become 2nd string at the safety position??

5- Fans think athleticism will transfer to CB & believe what our coaching staff is telling them instead of reading between the lines.

6- no lock to make the safety position with 2-3 wks before opening season & moved to CB at this level = Pray as the last hope.  JM.02

 

He's a lock to make the team, it's already getting thin at CB & safety, & he has a year playing in the scheme, plus he's cheap. On top of that, Ballard has said 1,000,000 times that he loves 2 things, size & speed, & Green has both in spades. And I view his spot on the depth chart the same as I view Quincy Wilson being behind Hairston, I don't put much stock into it at all. And the latest anyone had him projected in the draft was the 4th round, so the first statement about him going undrafted is just flat out not true.

[Jackie Daytona]

1 hour ago, NDcolt said:

1- playerA worst graded player at position in NFL, many say should never been drafted in 7 rds let alone 2nd.

 

 

That's just not even close to the truth though...... Several pundits and websites had Green in the 2-3 rd range, and moving UP pre-draft with more than a few teams.......  for example : http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/t.j.-green?id=2555537

 

[NDcolt]

Explain not getting first team reps at mini camp & start of training camp?  Hope I'm wrong 

[Solon]

On 8/15/2017 at 5:14 PM, Superman said:

 

Landon had college film that showed he couldn't cover. Then he came to the league and couldn't cover, which is primarily why he was so poorly rated in his rookie year.

 

They used him differently in 2016, rather than exposing him to as much coverage, they played him like a hybrid linebacker (Deone Bucanon, Clayton Geathers, etc.) All of a sudden he's an All Pro. Sure he got better, but he also played almost a completely different position, which is the primary reason he took off. If they kept him in a traditional safety role, he wouldn't have been as good.

 

The lesson is simpler than that, though, and it's that second year players can and sometimes do get better, sometimes drastically so. People acting like Green looked like he can't play football at all in 2016 are exaggerating. He was an inconsistent tackler, which was strictly related to technique, not ability. And he showed little awareness of where the ball was when it was in the air, getting completely lost at times. I don't think he'll completely erase the awareness/ball skills concerns any time soon, but he can get noticeably better at that, and be a more technically sound tackler. No reason to give up on any hope for him.

 

There's also the fact that he was rushed into a starting role when he clearly wasn't ready, which probably stunted his learning and growth, and exposed his flaws to an even greater degree.

 

Can he play corner? I doubt it. I don't understand the experiment, beyond getting him more reps in coverage to develop his ability. I don't want to see him at corner for any meaningful reps. I could be totally wrong, but I don't think he has the ability or the skill set, not for what Pagano asks corners to do in our defense. He could play Seattle's Cover 3, maybe.

Green should've had like 5 picks last year. The Tyreek Hill catch and that Titans TD pass makes me scream. The guy has potential. He just has to find the ball. He was never out of position. He just never capitalized.

[NDcolt]

53 cutdown tells all but we're trying to WIN, not play potential.  Do the PATS have this same problem?

[NewColtsFan]

18 minutes ago, NDcolt said:

Explain not getting first team reps at mini camp & start of training camp?  Hope I'm wrong 

 

Other guys are better....   and it doesn't mean he's bad.

 

And, no,   I seriously don't think you hope you're wrong.      Your string of posts in this thread SCREAM that you hope you're right and that Green sucks.

 

 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

8 minutes ago, NDcolt said:

Explain not getting first team reps at mini camp & start of training camp?  Hope I'm wrong 

 

With 53 new players on the roster, they needed to see as many reps of the new guys as they possibly could to get them up to speed from a scheme standpoint and see how they looked vs a 1st string NFL offense. They saw what they saw, & now TJ Green's running with the 1s. This is just my opinion & I could definitely be wrong, but I think it makes more sense than some of the other theories I've seen.

[AKB]

Why is this thread still going?

[LockeDown]

Swoopes was a project that is working out.  Green should probably be one as well, but most everyone won't let him because he was drafted high.  

[myic90]

I don't see it personally. But hey why not?

[Dark Superman]

Pagano has lost his mind..

 

Is Luck going to our starting MLB week 1?

 

Stay tuned..

[SP_21]

2 hours ago, Colt-King21 said:

Pagano has lost his mind..

 

Is Luck going to our starting MLB week 1?

 

Stay tuned..

He'd probably be better than any LB on our roster . 

[will426]

15 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

 

 

I know we had a freak show at the combine, but you guys also need to realize that his size is going to be an obstacle for him playing CB.

 

 

 

 

Bigger CBs are hard to come by. So far the most successful "big" CB is Sherman at 6'3" but he also plays in a zone scheme that masks his flaws, and self admittedly doesn't guard small receivers well. The next best is Trumaine Johnson but he's not exactly a shutdown CB.

 

 

 

 

If Green was 6'1" I'd see it but at 6'3" in a press man scheme, the chances are very low he'll be good at CB. 6'1" is about the cap for CB height. The range is 5'10" to 6'1". Any shorter or taller than that and there's cause for concern. He'll have the same flaws that Sherman has and then some because he's just not as talented as Sherman. Plus a safety-to-CB move is much harder than the reverse. I can't really think of a recent player who has made that switch and been successful. That's not to say that means if X player was a bad safety but played well when he moved to CB,then Green can do it. Then I'd be a hypocrite. What I'm saying is there isn't even a trend of data to follow to make some sort of accurate assertion of why this could work.

 

 

 

 

He's a bigger guy, he wasn't good at safety, didn't have good college tape, struggles in coverage, making a rare change, and is on his 3rd position change in 4 years. There's like zero logical reason to think this even MIGHT work.

 

 

 

 

 

 

*

 

Well if we exclude the fact that he had/has no coverage so far he actually has better skill set to handle smaller receivers...he has the speed of the smaller receivers unlike Sherman and has the physical size to shut bigger guys down buttt I highly doubt he'll make that kind of impact lol but theoretically speaking him being big wouldn't affect how he gaurds smaller guys  IF he knew how to "cover" bc of his athletic ability