National media NOT feeling the retainment of Chuck

[Fisticuffs111]

2 minutes ago, Restored said:

 

Usually I would agree but Irsay seemed fairly adamant about Chuck staying on for 2017. Now it could indeed change but it looks like Chuck is on for one more year regardless of who the next GM is.

Yeah, I agree, I think the way he was talking he seemed like he'd all but made up his mind.

Which is why, before all these interviews got announced at least, I thought this GM search would be kind of just for show. But to me it seems likely that he is truly looking for a GM, just one that will take on Chuck for a year.

[Corndog]

5 minutes ago, Restored said:

 

Right. Because the new GM is going to overrule his boss. I'm sure that'll work out great.

Umm, no, he is not going to sign a new coach behind Irsay's back.  But he could suggest it and convince Irsay to go a different direction.  A big problem with Grigson was he didn't work well with Pagano and I doubt Irsay wants that situation again.  I'm almost curious if that was a main reason for the firing, Pagano kept his end of the bargain of playing nice and Grigson didn't.  Not saying it isn't entirely out of the cards to keep Pagano, but usually a new GM brings in their own coach.  Also, this is a way to save face for Pagano, he wasn't fired, it was a regime change.

[Restored]

1 minute ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

Yeah, I agree, I think the way he was talking he seemed like he'd all but made up his mind.

Which is why, before all these interviews got announced at least, I thought this GM search would be kind of just for show. But to me it seems likely that he is truly looking for a GM, just one that will take on Chuck for a year.

 

And given the other prospective GM positions that are out there, having Pagano as the coach for one year isn't that bad of a deal.

[ManningGM]

Chuck is gone. 

[richard pallo]

How is all this going to effect FA signings?  Do I want to play for a possible lame duck coach?  A new coach the following year will change everything.  Or I know he's a players coach and he would be great to play for and if we can win we can keep moving forward.  Or it doesn't matter.  Show me the money!

[Andrew Luck fan club]

17 minutes ago, Corndog said:

Irsay won't fire him, the new GM would and it will be more than a week later.  They haven't even hired the new GM yet.

Guess we'll see if your theory rings true in the coming weeks then.

[The Lucky Neck Beard]

Irsay is not lying...  as Pagano IS currently the coach in 2017...  he did NOT elude to Pagano being the ONLY coach in 2017.  I have a strong feeling that unless Raye III is GM, Chuck is gone. 

[Fisticuffs111]

13 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

How is all this going to effect FA signings?  Do I want to play for a possible lame duck coach?  A new coach the following year will change everything.  Or I know he's a players coach and he would be great to play for and if we can win we can keep moving forward.  Or it doesn't matter.  Show me the money!

I'm trying to look at it from a player's perspective too.

Not just FA's though, it has to be very weird for players on the team now. People can say that they'll run through a wall this coming season to get Chuck to stay but let's face it, they've probably had this mindset for a year or two now. They know the rumors, they knows what's going on, I don't see why this coming season is any different in regards to the rumors. The only difference is the talk will be louder and more distracting.

[jameszeigler834]

2 hours ago, bluephantom87 said:

Watched some sport shows over the weekend (including Mike and Mike) this morning and MANY feel that Chuck is equally responsible for the Colts downward spiral with their PLAY on the field. Others say the Colts are a mess right now BUT per Adam Schefter gms are lining up and inquiring because having a franchise qb in Luck makes it a desirable job. The only PROBLEM is that whoever gets the job has to be TIED to Chuck instead of being able to PICK their own guy which could lead to ANOTHER messy situation between coach and gm UNLESS there's someone already in house which could lead to the same ol same ol. Think about it the new gm as stated on Mike and Mike will have to worry about how much of Irsay's ear does Chuck have? You will INHERIT a defensive hc whose DEFENSE continues to look ANYTHING the part SCHEME or play wise while lacking the BASIC fundamentals such as tackling and being generally inept for long stretches of most games. That falls on COACHING. Did anyone NOTICE that the Pats doubled Brown early and continued to do so for most of the game making him a NON factor? Hint hint to OUR defensive staff next time we play the Steelers. 

 

The last thing that was pointed out about Chuck was how sporadic the offense has looked under his watch no matter WHO the oc was. Confusion seems to be whether they want to be a power running or bombs away type of team. Hurry up seems to come late ONLY when down big. There's no type of a quick or short passing game one in which Luck EXCELLED at in college. Is that coming from Chuck with his OVERALL gameplan? I do remember Chuck being asked earlier this year about the USE of the no huddle as change of pace more often considering Luck's success rate when using it and Chuck responded by saying that's not something they like to do because it gets them away from their base set. I was ok with Grigs being released simply because I thought Chuck would follow either by Irsay's hands or the new GM but I'm afraid it will be more of the same in 2017 better talent or not.   

I am really not feeling it either but I will hope for the best if it is set in stone that he is going to be here another year.

[Dudley Smith]

I am not convinced that Pagano is definitely back in 2017 no matter what has been said to this point. I think Irsay is smart enough to know that a new GM will want to have their own guy in as HC and will not tie their hands. That is the quickest way to not only cause a quality candidate from taking the job but also to create another situation where GM and HC don't see eye to eye.

 

I do think it is true that it would give the GM a "free year" next season since if it is terrible Pagano is gone -- clean slate then for 2018. I just don't think you waste another entire year seeing if Pagano pans out when Luck's years in the league (especially with the punishment he takes -- which hopefully will change) are finite.

[braveheartcolt]

2 hours ago, life long said:

This forum has too many who are okay with bringing chuck back. I for one would not be and hope he is fired soon. It would seem the media nationally would agree with those like me. Yet I am sure several longtime posters will try to convince others that chuck deserves credit for lucks greatness. Grigson had done this long enough *unwarranted arrogance*, as has pagano*from his supporters*. Time for a real gm to pick a real HC, without irsay handcuffing the teams future....

Go on, educate us all. What is a real HC? And include some examples. If a 'handful' is too many, then you are probably correct, otherwise, I'll assume poetic licence. And, just for good measure, I have yet to see one poster (new or long time) to ever suggest Chuck's part in making Luck 'great'. Not one, so stop being dramatic please.

[Smonroe]

And, of course, the media has been right all along in this saga...

[life long]

1 minute ago, braveheartcolt said:

Go on, educate us all. What is a real HC? And include some examples. If a 'handful' is too many, then you are probably correct, otherwise, I'll assume poetic licence. And, just for good measure, I have yet to see one poster (new or long time) to ever suggest Chuck's part in making Luck 'great'. Not one, so stop being dramatic please.

Alot of you guys do suggest chuck was responsible for the colts afc championship..... i could list more than five of you if so inclined. A real HC for one does not constantly have the team performing poorly, making the same mistakes continually. If you believe Pagano is a real HC just because of his title, thats fine I can not change your mind. Real headcoach examples..... since you did not say available for the colts the list is near endless lombardi, walsh, the hoodie, landry. Today there are a ton of great young coaches. I am tired of flappy hands and people always giving him excuses. His poor scheming team wise cost the colts many wins and the division. Educate me on how grigson forced chuck to run all that boneheaded prevent in crunch time.....

[life long]

Chuck proved as much as grigson has the last two years, one of whom was just fired.... a coachs job is to develop talent he has. The gms job is to provide good talent. Both failed, both deserve to be fired JMO.

[bababooey]

5 minutes ago, life long said:

Chuck proved as much as grigson has the last two years, one of whom was just fired.... a coachs job is to develop talent he has. The gms job is to provide good talent. Both failed, both deserve to be fired JMO.

Problem is there is no HC available to replace him that would be a significantly better choice. No college head coaches are coming. They both deserve to be fired but at least one is well liked and the other was despised. Assume Jim doesn't care about any coordinators whose season is currently over. Really, only McDaniels makes sense as the one step up who is currently still in season that he may want to target. Don't see it as a high chance but while the SB has yet to be played one could think maybe Jim will go after him afterward since there are many reasons to do so. Other than that I think they stay put, give Chuck the chance for a year and let the new GM do what he wants next year. Thankfully he's around to spend all this money that we have from not having 2013 draft picks to extend as well as draft for us this year.

[esmort]

1 hour ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

Dude REALLY these guys bash Chuck & thats ALL THE MEDIA!!! Honestly i am tired of the Pagono bashing. we are going to be good next year WITH PAGANO as our coach PERIOD!!!! 

 

It's not just the media. I don't know why you are dead set on defending him. Pagano is not a good coach, even calling him average is debatable. The only excuse to keep him this year (if he is kept) is if Irsay thinks someone better is going to be available next year. Pagano is not leading the Colts to become perennial SB contenders. 

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

1 minute ago, esmort said:

 

It's not just the media. I don't know why you are dead set on defending him. Pagano is not a good coach, even calling him average is debatable. The only excuse to keep him this year (if he is kept) is if Irsay thinks someone better is going to be available next year. Pagano is not leading the Colts to become perennial SB contenders. 

I think he good not great, got the Colts to the AFC championship? How quickly people forget.

[B~Town]

5 minutes ago, life long said:

Chuck proved as much as grigson has the last two years, one of whom was just fired.... a coachs job is to develop talent he has. The gms job is to provide good talent. Both failed, both deserve to be fired JMO.

So with all the turn around if players were not being coached up here one would assume there would a large list of players that underperformed then balled out after leaving Indy . Please compile the list shouldn't take long at all .

[#12.]

If Chuck does stay, people seem certain 2017 is his final year.  With a competent GM and this amount of cap space... in this division, making the playoffs isn't that difficult to do.  If Chuck does win 10 games and maybe a playoff game, will he be fired?  I doubt it.

 

If you're one wants to be sure he's gone, you better hope it's within the next two weeks.

[Smonroe]

Just now, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

I think he good not great, got the Colts to the AFC championship? How quickly people forget.

 

I think he's good also, but hasn't had the players to prove anything more than that. 

 

I invite all the bashers to look at the starters, especially on defense.  There were guys off the streets playing in the D backfield.  Our LBs are mediocre on their best days.  No real nose tackle, and most importantly, no pass rush all season.

 

Everyone loves Payton but he couldn't do better than 7-9 the last few years with one of the best QBs in the league. 

[life long]

3 minutes ago, bababooey said:

Problem is there is no HC available to replace him that would be a significantly better choice. No college head coaches are coming. They both deserve to be fired but at least one is well liked and the other was despised. Assume Jim doesn't care about any coordinators whose season is currently over. Really, only McDaniels makes sense as the one step up who is currently still in season that he may want to target. Don't see it as a high chance but while the SB has yet to be played one could think maybe Jim will go after him afterward since there are many reasons to do so. Other than that I think they stay put, give Chuck the chance for a year and let the new GM do what he wants next year. Thankfully he's around to spend all this money that we have from not having 2013 draft picks to extend as well as draft for us this year.

Until Shannahan signs i would include him with mcdaniels. Why would he not want to work with luck compared to what the 9'ers have? Either of which IMO is a huge upgrade. I would even consider patricia an upgrade if available.

 

My problem is with people who do not care about potentially wasting another year of lucks career. Especially with good offensive minded head coaches available. Chuck was brought into fix the D. He has not period. People have their excuses but failure. Has he shown improvement consistently as a coach.....? Not in my opinion. I know the vet posters will think i am trolling, i want this team to do well. The last two years chuck has delivered mediocre years, that i think just about any current HC would have if not better. We can do better dont settle mr irsay, luck deserves a real unbiased search for the new gm and HC IMO

[life long]

6 minutes ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

I think he good not great, got the Colts to the AFC championship? How quickly people forget.

There you go @braveheartcolt

[life long]

7 minutes ago, B~Town said:

So with all the turn around if players were not being coached up here one would assume there would a large list of players that underperformed then balled out after leaving Indy . Please compile the list shouldn't take long at all .

The browns coaches have ruined careers too. Grigson had a lot of blame and paid the price. What is your excuse for chucks D at the end of games.....? Especially when playing aggresive had worked......?

 

Good coach......

[life long]

9 minutes ago, #12. said:

If Chuck does stay, people seem certain 2017 is his final year.  With a competent GM and this amount of cap space... in this division, making the playoffs isn't that difficult to do.  If Chuck does win 10 games and maybe a playoff game, will he be fired?  I doubt it.

 

If you're one wants to be sure he's gone, you better hope it's within the next two weeks.

How many times has a coach on a hot seat actually pulled through to save his job? More often than not the heat gets to them and are fired. If it happens next season are there going to be better candidates next offseason? A lot seem to be willing to gamble there will be...

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

6 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

I think he's good also, but hasn't had the players to prove anything more than that. 

 

I invite all the bashers to look at the starters, especially on defense.  There were guys off the streets playing in the D backfield.  Our LBs are mediocre on their best days.  No real nose tackle, and most importantly, no pass rush all season.

 

Everyone loves Payton but he couldn't do better than 7-9 the last few years with one of the best QBs in the league. 

Agree watching the last 4 playoff teams play this week mind you 4 teams, I think it would challenge anyone to name maybe 5 guys on the Colts who would start for any of the teams. Excluding punter and kicker. 

[esmort]

10 minutes ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

I think he good not great, got the Colts to the AFC championship? How quickly people forget.

 

Good is a stretch, and the stars aligned perfectly for that to happen; his coaching skills had far less to do with that than lucky circumstances. Then when we actually played the AFCCG his true coaching ability (or lack there of)  was on display. 

[Fisticuffs111]

I wish I had the confidence that some of you do in Pagano.

He's a great guy and a good role model, but I just want a great football mind at the HC position. I don't think it's even really fair to call him a great motivator like some do though, not with how often we come out flat in the 1st or 2nd half.

 

I've seen people legitimately use that last Jags game as a reason to have faith in Pagano going forward. We no showed the 1st half against inferior competition, that is not how you want to win in the NFL especially against bad teams. Only being able to fire these guys up after they're down double digits just doesn't seem like something to hold your head up about.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

6 minutes ago, life long said:

The browns coaches have ruined careers too. Grigson had a lot of blame and paid the price. What is your excuse for chucks D at the end of games.....? Especially when playing aggresive had worked......?

 

Good coach......

His excuse is NO TALENT!!

[life long]

1 minute ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

His excuse is NO TALENT!!

You are %100 accurate, he is lacking coaching talent!

[MTC]

Pagano will soon become PaGONEo once a new GM is hired.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

1 minute ago, esmort said:

 

Good is a stretch, and the stars aligned perfectly for that to happen; his coaching skills had far less to do with that than lucky circumstances. Then when we actually played the AFCCG his true coaching ability (or lack there of)  was on display. 

I guess thats would happened to Tomlin this weekend? Or how about the many thrashings the Patriots put on Dungy and the Colts. Or even Tomlin put on Dungy when the Colts were IMO the best team in the league. Dungy is now a hall of famer, had much more talent to work with than Pagano!! Not saying Pagano is a Hall of fame coach,  not even close, but he has never had a losing season!! Hell Clevland would kill for that! Bellacek is just a sick coach I HATE the Patriots but hey got to give them there props they our good even when rebuilding. Honestly the Colts are in a Mini rebuild now especially on defense.

[The Fish]

Chuck is middle of the road. He's not a great X's and O's guy (but shouldn't his other guys be?) but the team plays hard for him. He seems like he's got the motivating people thing down.

I'm of the opinion that most of this stinky stretch was born of Grigson moves.

[braveheartcolt]

20 minutes ago, life long said:

There you go @braveheartcolt

What?

 

[life long]

1 minute ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

I guess thats would happened to Tomlin this weekend? Or how about the many thrashings the Patriots put on Dungy and the Colts. Or even Tomlin put on Dungy when the Colts were IMO the best team in the league. Dungy is now a hall of famer, had much more talent to work with than Pagano!! Not saying Pagano is a Hall of fame coach,  not even close, but he has never had a losing season!! Hell Clevland would kill for that! Bellacek is just a sick coach I HATE the Patriots but hey got to give them there props they our good even when rebuilding. Honestly the Colts are in a Mini rebuild now especially on defense.

I would not say mini, what position on D could not use a new young talent. The only "good" players we have on D are older.

[life long]

Just now, braveheartcolt said:

What?

 

Look at what i quoted..... someone suggesting pagano got us to the afccg... i know you dont like what i have to say but i enjoy the banter : )

[B~Town]

24 minutes ago, life long said:

The browns coaches have ruined careers too. Grigson had a lot of blame and paid the price. What is your excuse for chucks D at the end of games.....? Especially when playing aggresive had worked......?

 

Good coach......

 

Still waiting on that list btw easy way to make your case

 

We all know our D was horrible

Worst front 7 in football

1 CB that fit the scheme that played injured most the year

ILBs that cant cover

worst cover safety in the NFL having to play considerable time

Walden was our best pass rusher

 

Is it any wonder teams scored at will when they needed to air it out

 

[braveheartcolt]

22 minutes ago, life long said:

Until Shannahan signs i would include him with mcdaniels. Why would he not want to work with luck compared to what the 9'ers have? Either of which IMO is a huge upgrade. I would even consider patricia an upgrade if available.

 

My problem is with people who do not care about potentially wasting another year of lucks career. Especially with good offensive minded head coaches available. Chuck was brought into fix the D. He has not period. People have their excuses but failure. Has he shown improvement consistently as a coach.....? Not in my opinion. I know the vet posters will think i am trolling, i want this team to do well. The last two years chuck has delivered mediocre years, that i think just about any current HC would have if not better. We can do better dont settle mr irsay, luck deserves a real unbiased search for the new gm and HC IMO

So Kyle Shanahan and Josh McDaniels are Real HC's? You got me there....

[braveheartcolt]

10 minutes ago, life long said:

Look at what i quoted..... someone suggesting pagano got us to the afccg... i know you dont like what i have to say but i enjoy the banter : )

No problem with what you say, just that you are a bit misinformed on lots of stuff. Banter is fine, but stop being paranoid about 'vet posters'. We have no more say than a noobie....

[throwing BBZ]

I like the argument that Irsay has sought council on where the league is at, and where it is headed.
He absorbs this, and his updated vision and Grigsons are not the same. Grigson is gone.
  Irsay will hire a GM that has a vision that satisfies Irsay.
The GM will get the Pagano vision and respond accordingly. This is big business.
 

[azcolt]

The only way Irsay's comments make sense is that he is doing a "search" to hire Raye and Raye has agreed to keep his friend Pagano. Firing Grigson was just a way to get a negative guy out of the building without any plan in place to improve the team as Raye has been involved for several years. He struck out on the plans for improvement but apparently thought it was worth a change now just to change the negative vibes. Come on, people. How else do his comments make any sense?