Irsay And Manning - The Only Way This Ends Well...

[ColtsBlueFL]

I doubt >95% of the fans would want Peyton released.... If_He_Is_Healthy. Problem is nobody knows. Peyton is careful with his words, but he's going to be a 'glass is more than half full' guy. It is his future at steak, so he has to be totally all in to get there. Those directly involved in his rehab have to be encouraging and supportive. You cannot derail someones recovery with negative feedback. So things we hear from Peyton and hid direct caretakers are expected. On the other hand, you have the reports that he's not making progress, and the longer it goes, the less rosy the future picture becomes. How long has it been since his last surgery? 5months? 6 months? And still, he's not where he needs to be, or even close enough to declare it it inevitable in the near future?

http://sports.yahoo....jim_irsay013012

Peyton was slow to recover from bursa sac surgery, (2 actually), so he's not a proven fast healer like Terrell Owens and his broken bone / Superbowl appearance. The Marvin Harrison saga taught me how i have to remove emotional connection to the Colts FO decisions. MH was paid quite well for the excellence he had brought. But his injury/slow recovery wasn't conducive to a further big payout. There was all kind of secrecy / speculatiuon on his progress until he was shown the door. Contracts aren't guaranteed, and he was released. Showed me the business side.

I really believe it is not the money, for a healthy Manning. It may be about the money for a still injured QB. He already received a huge paycheck last season for convelescing. I'm not sure 28 million plus is in order for another possible repeat of the same. So If there isn't real evidence Peyton can zip the 15 yd out, or drop a 55 yd bomb over the top with something approaching his typical speed and spin, then the March 8 deadline puts it in gamblers territory. Do you risk getting major burned for a chance at PM in his twilight, or withold the chips and play some of them on the dawn of a new organization and QB?

It's a tough decision. I do not envy the position Irsay is in. But I will embrace it any way it goes down. We've retooled the staff, and some of the players will be rolled into it, in time We had an incredible decade, but the model we had was only sustainable by PM, and PM is in his last stages. Irsay has to re-invent the Colts to reclaim the top spot once more. Sooner or later. We'll know which one in early March.

[DILLIGAFER]

No its definitely you who is confused...if you root against the colts your NOT a colts fan. He didn't say there was anything wrong with being just a manning fan but fact is if you root for peyton to beat the colts IF he goes to another team your not a colts fan. I'll even give an example if peyton went to the patriots would you root for him to still beat the colts

Compete incompetence by some of you worries me. You sir, do not get it either. no use in trying to explane something to you that is clearly over your compacity.

[runstuffer]

I just watched the espn Manning interview. Manning wants to play and is going to play this season. He has been and will be a top 5 Qb this season. He wants to finish up here in Indy. He may play 2 more years? I wonder if we were in contention at the end of the year, I think Manning would have returned.

The Manning I remember won 4 straight and was a Blair W drop from another run at a superbowl. So he finally missed time last season his first ever. He is healing and will be ready for mini camp. Luck or RG3 should be drafted to backup and learn from Manning as we return to winning the south.

We need 2 great /good Qbs on this team. People say we can't do it, but we can do it. This guy wants to stay! Don't push him away! Manning wants to play, and play at a high level and win. It's not about money, it's about health. He will be healthy and play well for us this season and it will be money well spent when we get back to the playoffs this year. Manning=playoffs+Qb of future, We can't lose!

[doogansquest]

I am a Colts fan, but I would root for Manning to beat them. Not because I like him more than them, but because he's done more for then than they have for him, and it would be a shame if they weren't doing everything they could to help him achieve the status, hardware, and praise he deserves. A healthy Manning playing for us is better for the franchise than anything else, in my opinion.

Still a Colts fan, while also being a Manning fan. People can multi-task their fanhood. Is it impossible to root for two teams? Is everyone's level of fandom the same? I guess that's not an argument I buy, and I don't think it's worth it for us to get all upset about.

[04DarkShadowGT]

Compete incompetence by some of you worries me. You sir, do not get it either. no use in trying to explane something to you that is clearly over your compacity.

If you are going to try and prove you are smarter than other people, it's probaby best to use spell check before you hit the "post" button.

[Smitto]

Put your flame shield up, bro...the Luck Army is coming for you.

that was a knee slapper

[04DarkShadowGT]

I am a Colts fan, but I would root for Manning to beat them. Not because I like him more than them, but because he's done more for then than they have for him, and it would be a shame if they weren't doing everything they could to help him achieve the status, hardware, and praise he deserves. A healthy Manning playing for us is better for the franchise than anything else, in my opinion.

Still a Colts fan, while also being a Manning fan. People can multi-task their fanhood. Is it impossible to root for two teams? Is everyone's level of fandom the same? I guess that's not an argument I buy, and I don't think it's worth it for us to get all upset about.

What if the best way to get him the status, hardware, and praise he deserves is to let him go to a better team? San Fran, Baltimore, NY Jets, Texans, et would certainly put him in a better position to win a ring.

[jskinnz]

Compete incompetence by some of you worries me. You sir, do not get it either. no use in trying to explane something to you that is clearly over your compacity.

I find it highly comical that you have been called out several times in this thread for what is very clearly something that you do not understand. Further, do you realize how many times that you are the one that begins throwing stones at people.

Lastly, when calling out people for their basic ignornance, it would probably give your post some credibility if some of your words were not spelled so incorrectly.

[DILLIGAFER]

If you are going to try and prove you are smarter than other people, it's probaby best to use spell check before you hit the "post" button.

My phone doesnt have spell check, and your butt.u.me-ing again. You should really stop that.

[DILLIGAFER]

I find it highly comical that you have been called out several times in this thread for what is very clearly something that you do not understand. Further, do you realize how many times that you are the one that begins throwing stones at people.

Lastly, when calling out people for their basic ignornance, it would probably give your post some credibility if some of your words were not spelled so incorrectly.

See the above post for further clarification. You callin someone out.. shocker. King of flamboyance overreaction.

[ColtsBlueFL]

I doubt >95% of the fans would want Peyton released.... If_He_Is_Healthy. Problem is nobody knows. Peyton is careful with his words, but he's going to be a 'glass is more than half full' guy. It is his future at stake, so he has to be totally all in to get there. Those directly involved in his rehab have to be encouraging and supportive. You cannot derail someones recovery with negative feedback. So things we hear from Peyton and hid direct caretakers are expected. On the other hand, you have the reports that he's not making progress, and the longer it goes, the less rosy the future picture becomes. How long has it been since his last surgery? 5months? 6 months? And still, he's not where he needs to be, or even close enough to declare it it inevitable in the near future?

http://sports.yahoo....jim_irsay013012

Peyton was slow to recover from bursa sac surgery, (2 actually), so he's not a proven fast healer like Terrell Owens and his broken bone / Superbowl appearance. The Marvin Harrison saga taught me how i have to remove emotional connection to the Colts FO decisions. MH was paid quite well for the excellence he had brought. But his injury/slow recovery wasn't conducive to a further big payout. There was all kind of secrecy / speculatiuon on his progress until he was shown the door. Contracts aren't guaranteed, and he was released. Showed me the business side.

I really believe it is not the money, for a healthy Manning. It may be about the money for a still injured QB. He already received a huge paycheck last season for convelescing. I'm not sure 28 million plus is in order for another possible repeat of the same. So If there isn't real evidence Peyton can zip the 15 yd out, or drop a 55 yd bomb over the top with something approaching his typical speed and spin, then the March 8 deadline puts it in gamblers territory. Do you risk getting major burned for a chance at PM in his twilight, or withold the chips and play some of them on the dawn of a new organization and QB?

It's a tough decision. I do not envy the position Irsay is in. But I will embrace it any way it goes down. We've retooled the staff, and some of the players will be rolled into it, in time We had an incredible decade, but the model we had was only sustainable by PM, and PM is in his last stages. Irsay has to re-invent the Colts to reclaim the top spot once more. Sooner or later. We'll know which one in early March.

[Smitto]

Compete incompetence by some of you worries me. You sir, do not get it either. no use in trying to explane something to you that is clearly over your compacity.

Your name says Fan of manning... now I'm not gonna so who's a fan and who isn't but no fan I know roots for a team to beat his team.. doesn't make sense.

[DILLIGAFER]

Seriously.

[gacker65]

IMO, March 8th is only going to show that Mr. Irsay is either going to cut Peyton or keep him, This is the opinion part based on previous experience and the way Mr. Irsay has been handling this situation. Peyron will get his $28 million and the report will be that Peyton will be ready to play by OTAs. How the draft will go will be up for speculation.

[Coltsagent]

All I have to say is all this anger, hostility and talking about the release of Peyton BEFORE it happens...if it actually does happen, oh boy, Irsay may need to go into witness relocation.

[Peyton and Eli fan]

All I have to say is all this anger, hostility and talking about the release of Peyton BEFORE it happens...if it actually does happen, oh boy, Irsay may need to go into witness relocation.

When he called Peyton a politician, you should have seen all of the replies to his twitter account. Not pretty

[Jay305]

Put your flame shield up, bro...the Luck Army is coming for you.

LOL I love this

[Balzer40]

When he called Peyton a politician, you should have seen all of the replies to his twitter account. Not pretty

This is the bad thing, Irsay is just trying to do what he thinks is best for his franchise. It's a business that he has invested a ton of money on and he has the right to do what he thinks is best. Then there are fans that totally and completely over react to news about a guy that personally couldn't care less about any of them. Thats just the honest to God truth. Yes, Peyton appreciates the fans because they have made him and his family filthy rich, but on a personal level, no, he don't care. He's not gonna come over to your house and have a cookout and drink some beer with ya because you were against him getting released.

I have read some of the totally insane comments here, other forums, and blogs and it really makes me question people's mental capacity. When a guy on this forum compares feeling as bad at the possibility of Manning getting released to his wife of 15 yrs. cheating on him , I just have to shake my head and wonder how these people have managed to form personal relationships in their lifes to begin with. People need to get their priorties straight and realize this is just a game and no matter what happens, it shouldn't have any negative effects on them in their personal lives.

[GoColts8818]

Oh I think if we do release Peyton and he goes to another team and struggles and is a shadow of his former self and the new guy we draft works out and we are back to winning in a couple of years I think people would say it worked out well in the end. It would hurt in the short term but I do think that most would agree in the end though it truly worked out.

[Jaric]

LOL, yea KyFan. Currently Wool Magnet and Undecided Frog are the only two online flaming every pro manning post on the board atm. its fine this isn't my first experience with folks like this...

I think your definition of "flaming" is a bit different then mine is.

[-JJ-]

I think your definition of "flaming" is a bit different then mine is.

or mine...which is biggeer than yours

[Jaric]

And like a lot of people and "sources" have said, if it wasn't for #18 the horseshoe might have packed bags and headed to LA already....that has to count for something...

You know, if we pick up his option, and he can't play, it will pretty much cripple this team for the next few years right? That's the issue. I would think that people who want to make the "All he's done for the team" argument wouldn't want his last action as a Colt to be condemning us to salary cap heck.

I'm not saying you have to release him, only that you have to be darn sure he's going to play if you pick up that option. The alternative can not happen regardless of how much Manning has done for this franchise and city.

[BleedingBlue]

...but its not about money so those saying "crippling the team" is a speculation. Irsay says we can afford both. Analysts even pointed to the new cap rules and said we can afford both although not the perfect % of cap for a QB, but this is a QB driven league (a change in mindset because of PM). You can't win without a fantastic starter and a good backup. Period.

In short my post was to raise awareness that Peyton is larger than the men responsible for drafting him. He shouldn't be taken for granted and cast aside like some under performing financial stock.

Someone mentioned Marvin - He wasn't just underperforming he was under criminal investigation for discharging a handgun belonging to him and the bullet ended up in teh side of someones house. I liked Marvin too, but the decision was fairly easy in comparision.

I certainly don't want to see someone take it for granted what PM did for this franchise.

previous to manning, I would get to see the colts on tv maybe once a year. two years ago he was on here in NY almost every week despite the fact that we have 2 major sports teams.

Again, its not my fault that matchups are now marqueed as Peyton vs Brady rather than Pats vs. Colts. The media makes them all larger than the franchise. The truth is, thats a fact that Mr. Irsay needs to recognize.

Yea he got the leaf/manning pick right. Lets hope AL ends up being the next PM and not the next Ryan Leaf.

Just as uncertain we are about PM's health, we must be equally uncertain regarding a rookie from stanford who has been touted as the next John Elway. Let me remind you that John Elway is not Peyton Manning.

[Jaric]

or mine...which is biggeer than yours

Did you just try to "scoreboard" me JJ?

[Jaric]

lol not true. I was rooting for the jags to beat the colts the last game of the season, and many colt fans was doing this, maybe even you?

So that not true,

Yeah, but that was for the greater good (or at least that's what I told myself as dirty as I felt doing it)

[i am yoda]

I think your concept of fan and the actual meaning of fan is the problem.. If you are a fan of a TEAM you root for the TEAM..

I've seen this logic on another message board. But it ignores reality. Fans root for players. Unless the team is in the city that is your home, you're rooting for the collection of players that is the team. You're not rooting for colors, or logos, or mascots. You're not rooting for owners. You're rooting for players. The organization IS important. But a fan's affection for the organization is complementary to the affection for the TEAM, the players who are actually playing the game we love.

[Jaric]

...but its not about money so those saying "crippling the team" is a speculation. Irsay says we can afford both. Analysts even pointed to the new cap rules and said we can afford both although not the perfect % of cap for a QB, but this is a QB driven league (a change in mindset because of PM). You can't win without a fantastic starter and a good backup. Period.

Actually, it's not speculation. If we pick up that option and Manning can't go and either retires or is cut, we're >>>ed. There is no two ways about it. All his money gets frontloaded and we end up on the hook for almost 40 million dollars against the cap (it's like 38 something)

That can't happen. That is the issue. And it is a health issue so Irsay isn't being dishonest because if he can play then it's not a problem.

[BelieveinB]

Just feel compelled to respond to this. I also agree that Indy and Irsay owe Peyton something. The right to exist in what he created. thats right. What he created. the thing that has seperated the colts from all other teams in the NFL is a strong sense of loyalty to their key players. Not jumping on the free agency train like the other teams that would drop players at the drop of a hat. PM had brought something to this town and city that has improved all lives. Business owner in Indy have said that "he" made Indy a football town. Colts fan? great for u. I am as well but more a fan of the what the colts are and stand for. again in large part to PM. The last thing I want to see are the colts turning into a steelers, a philadelphia, or an oakland where the only press their team gets is bad publicity of shootings, sexual assault etc. I'm a fan of colts football and what it is. Proud, loyal, up front and having personal integrity. I WILL NOT be blindly loyal to the "horse shoe" logo. I'm fan of the players and values behind it. The thought of a "James Harrison" or "Ndomakong Suh" penal system type player on this team would cause me to lose faith. Those two and those with the same "dirty" mentality wouldn't work in the system that "I" love. The fans make the team and the owner money. Make changes to the team and some players but keep the one working main ingredient in the stew>PM. The overwhelming majority say to find a way to keep peyton and the fans are the only reason ur job exists.

[colts2dasuperbowl]

Some guys here talk about PM like he's just some superstar in sports world. PM is a mega-supertar, he's a Michael Jordan of NFL. The way he prepares and plays the game is just amazing. If MJ never played for the Bulls, the Bulls probably relocated 2~3 times already. And losing PM won't do any good for the Colts organization, especially marketing wise.

Also, am I the only person who think that we can still be successful even if we don't pick Luck? If PM is healthy, and he is cleared by doctors to play football again, he can probably play for about at least two more years at a high level. I truly believe we will have more problems (as a whole team) picking Luck than to trade the #1 pick. We can draft a good QB later rounds of this year or early rounds in next year and have him learn behind PM. Our team has a lot of holes to fill, DL, CB, SS, TE, and WR. And please don't say we have good group of WR's and TE's, because the only reason they look good is because of PM. Jacob Tamme, Austin Collie, and Garcon would not be as good as before with Luck in the QB position.

I just wanted to post my thoughts on people who thinks drafting Luck is the best option for the Colts. Sure, we are missing on the next greatest QB since John Elway, but Colts can definately build a solid team without him. There will always be another Eli's, Ben's, and Bree's.

[JTcardscolts]

You know, if we pick up his option, and he can't play, it will pretty much cripple this team for the next few years right? That's the issue. I would think that people who want to make the "All he's done for the team" argument wouldn't want his last action as a Colt to be condemning us to salary cap heck.

I'm not saying you have to release him, only that you have to be darn sure he's going to play if you pick up that option. The alternative can not happen regardless of how much Manning has done for this franchise and city.

Listen your media friends, you know the ones you believe 100% of what they say, aren't talking about whether or not he can play anymore. Payton has put an end to that speculation they are now talking about where he will play next year(you don't know this?)...now you would think that one would have some gratitude for a guy who is prolly the soul reason the team is still in Indy. With that said cutting a healthy peyton and our next QB(luck) being a bust(anything is possible) would be even more crippling to the team.

Plus if Peyton wasnt healthy enough to go next season do you think he would let the colts make that mistake? I don't.

[Coltsman1788]

It has to do with Peyton kicking Irsay/Grigsons butts not the players of the colts, ect.

Im not a manning or colts fan, im both in that respect. It would be like 'take that mr. Irsay/grigson'.

Then i would go back to pulling for the colts against every other opponent in the nfl. Just me.

I'm not going to question your fanhood or anything like that.

Just wondering though...how could any one seriously be upset with Irsay over this. I mean if he ends up having to cut Peyton it's not like he is trying to run him out of town for kicks and giggles. It would be purely a business decision based on a prognosis that Peyton Manning is not healthy enough to play for the Colts next year. The March 8th deadline is the result of a provision that Peyton himself wanted in the contract. So why be upset with Irsay? This is simply a perfect storm of unfortunate events that have transpired to essentially force Irsay's hand if Peyton isn't healthy by the deadline that he himself helped to set in place.

If Peyton truly wants to remain a Colt as much as some fans want him to remain here then he should look Mr. Irsay in the eye and rework his deal and offer to take considerably less money due to his uncertain injury status. Peyton could undertake action to help alleviate the financial burden his contract places on this franchise. Paying that much for a healthy franchise star is one thing but to pay that for a man who could possibly never play again is crippling to the franchise's long term future. But Peyton hasn't to our knowledge even offered to do that because the NFL is a business and even the admirable Peyton Manning will ultimately do what is in his own best interest. So why fault the Colts if they opt to do what is in their best interest?

[BleedingBlue]

Just wondering though...how could any one seriously be upset with Irsay over this. I mean if he ends up having to cut Peyton it's not like he is trying to run him out of town for kicks and giggles. It would be purely a business decision based on a prognosis that Peyton Manning is not healthy enough to play for the Colts next year.

But now we know he is healthy enough to play next year. If he is healthy enough to play in the NFL then why not the Colts?

If the check isn't cut by Irsay on March 8th, then we know that it WAS about the money and we could then form our own opinions about Mr. Irsay from there.

I think Irsay keeps Manning AND drafts Luck which is what he has said all along. I would actually be SHOCKED at this point if he didn't and that was the point of my thread.

[UndecidedFrog]

But now we know he is healthy enough to play next year. If he is healthy enough to play in the NFL then why not the Colts?

Do we? What credible evidence do you have to support this assertion? Have you heard this from Peyton or Irsay, or the docs, trainers and coaches that are responsible for his rehab? Or are you going by somebody else's conjecture?

If the check isn't cut by Irsay on March 8th, then we know that it WAS about the money and we could then form our own opinions about Mr. Irsay from there.

I disagree. If the option bonus is not paid, we only know that Irsay considered that not paying was what he viewed as in the best long-term interests of the team.

I think Irsay keeps Manning AND drafts Luck which is what he has said all along. I would actually be SHOCKED at this point if he didn't and that was the point of my thread.

He did not say that. He said, if Peyton is healthy, he will be a colt. He has not determined if Peyton is healthy yet.

He did not say he will draft Luck. He said he will use the #1 pick on a QB. It could possibly be some other QB in the draft.

[NagelHausForge]

I'm no expert here but if I were to put myself in PM's shoes and I felt myself progressing, but knew I wouldn't be at 100% by the March 8th deadline I would be open to negotiations. PM is a class act. We have seen before how he has taken less money to help put the best players around him in order to win. I wouldn't be shocked if A) they forstall the 28 mil bonus to after next season B) reduce the amount of the bonus to be more cap friendly or C) Spread out the bonus over the remaining few years of his contract, again to be more cap friendly.

PM wants to win. He understands the cap limits and understand that this is a business and it is time now to start looking for his successor. I have no doubt that he and Mr. Irsay will work something out to where IF he is healthy he will stay a Colt, as Mr. irsay has said all along.

Just my 2 cents.

[BleedingBlue]

Whatever Debbie.

[UndecidedFrog]

Whatever Debbie.

I am very embarrassed for you. Instead of addressing my points, you revert to the eloquent "whatever" response.

[Jaric]

Listen your media friends, you know the ones you believe 100% of what they say, aren't talking about whether or not he can play anymore. Payton has put an end to that speculation they are now talking about where he will play next year(you don't know this?)...now you would think that one would have some gratitude for a guy who is prolly the soul reason the team is still in Indy. With that said cutting a healthy peyton and our next QB(luck) being a bust(anything is possible) would be even more crippling to the team.

Plus if Peyton wasnt healthy enough to go next season do you think he would let the colts make that mistake? I don't.

What on earth are you babbling about?

[WSO]

Why would you root against the Colts if Manning was on another team? Revenge? lol

[BleedingBlue]

first off, make a valid point that deserves to be addressed. Peyton says he will play in 2012....so there is a response to your first quote.

Your other quotes are just you disagreeing with me which is fine. You have a right to disagree. There is no point is disagreeing with you disagreeing, unless thats what you want..

You are in fact argueing with another member on another thread to which you have contributed almost 50% of the threads replies with conflict.

Thank you again for admitting you were in error yet again.

I stated that I have been watching QBs throw for over 20 years, and I implied that this does NOT make me an expert. That's all.

1) You admitted error before when you mistakenly thought I was comparing my watching football with what AV observed. I made no such comparison, as you have already admitted.

2) You also admitted error now, when you mistakenly thought I claimed to be on a professional team. I made no such claim, as you have already admitted.

looking at your post history, every post you make quotes someone - to which you play devils advocate. So perhaps you just like the conflict. I just don't feel that its worth my time..sorry.

My other choice of respons was going to be...

what is green and slimey?

a. trolls

b. frogs

c. both.

I chose the shorter answer, which was whateves debbie. Its funny that you knew who i was referring to.

I did see that you made a good post about the history of Colts Bench QBs. Good informative stuff. Much better than quoting and questioning anyone who wants to see Peyton here next year. Stick with that stuff and you'll probably end up being a member much longer....and having a better time.

[UndecidedFrog]

first off, make a valid point that deserves to be addressed. Peyton says he will play in 2012....so there is a response to your first quote.

So let me understand you correctly. If Peyton says he will play in 2012, you think this will be true? Are there not any uncertainties that surround his health and his ability to throw the ball similar to his pre-injury form? How can Peyton force Irsay to pay him the option bonus to continue playing him? If he is released, how can Peyton force another team to pick him up and play him?

Also, please provide the link to where you have seen or heard Peyton say he will play in 2012.

I think your answer has a lot more to do with wishful thinking than reality.

Your other quotes are just you disagreeing with me which is fine. You have a right to disagree. There is no point is disagreeing with you disagreeing, unless thats what you want..

You are in fact argueing with another member on another thread to which you have contributed almost 50% of the threads replies with conflict.

looking at your post history, every post you make quotes someone - to which you play devils advocate. So perhaps you just like the conflict. I just don't feel that its worth my time..sorry.

My other choice of respons was going to be...

what is green and slimey?

a. trolls

b. frogs

c. both.

I chose the shorter answer, which was whateves debbie. Its funny that you knew who i was referring to.

I did see that you made a good post about the history of Colts Bench QBs. Good informative stuff. Much better than quoting and questioning anyone who wants to see Peyton here next year. Stick with that stuff and you'll probably end up being a member much longer....and having a better time.

I think I am pretty secure with my status as a member here, unless you are somehow threatening me (which I believe is against the TOS).

I am having a good time on these forums. If nothing else, I have great insight into human psychology as exemplified in your posts.

If you can avoid insulting me in the future, with your silly references to my screen name, I think it will go better for you.