Not everyone in indy is fine with chuck and grigs staying

[VocableLoki]

Just now, mahagga73 said:

He DOES have an overinflated record because of the division , I gave you the numbers. And your going to tell me without Luck this team isn't 3-13 this year. That's not subjective, that's common sense. It's not all his fault, the GM is much to blame , but he's part of the problem and needs to go. They need a coach that makes a team better. 

 

He went 6-3 without Luck last year so I don't think he is 100% reliant on Luck for his record.

 

That's not "common sense," that is your opinion. You have no idea how the Colts would perform in a different division or with a different quarterback. It's your subjective opinion.

 

Here's the thing, the argument you are using can be stretched to most coaches who have good quarterbacks. "Mike McCarthy isn't a good coach because of his division and Aaron Rodgers," "Mike Tomlin isn't a good coach because he gets to play the Browns and has Ben Roethlisberger," etc, etc. Yes Chuck has a good quarterback and yes he is in a poor division. Doesn't make him a bad coach.

 

I don't really know how good he is, personally. He has won with an incredibly flawed roster, yet he also has struggled to improve the defense and I think struggles with game planning. However, this debate started because you claimed he wasn't a successful coach. Hopefully it is clear that is completely false.

[VaAllDay757]

11 hours ago, krunk said:

really getting tired of all the cry baby posts saying the same damn thing. Everybody and their momma knows there's a lot who dont want them back. Problem is they'll be here.

Don't like it? Don't reply anf sign off

[VaAllDay757]

6 hours ago, VocableLoki said:

Okay? Your point was that he has hurt the team more than helped. Clearly his accomplishments show  otherwise. It's not being an apologist to point what he has accomplished here. Again, if you want to say the team could accomplish more, fine. Don't behave as though Chuck has been a drag for five years when he took a 2-14 team to three playoffs wins in three years.

They only went 2-14 one season 6 years ago lol it wasn't like this team always been bad

[jvan1973]

10 hours ago, jshipp23 said:

Nobody is forcing the "handclapper" fanboys to read or comment on these threads..Many Colts fans probably 90% are disgusted and need to vent...I suggest you make an I love and support Pagano thread where you guys can make each other feel better...It's still news until Irsay makes a statement supporting Pagano which hasn't happened yet...He isn't going to fire him unless he can get a big fish..I believe he is still looking as does much of the local media...

Where did you get that 90% stat from??

[jshipp23]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

Where did you get that 90% stat from??

A very scientific survey..

[jvan1973]

Just now, jshipp23 said:

A very scientific survey..

I'm sure

[Zach Boyd]

This is not over until Jim Irsay says it's over

[VocableLoki]

5 minutes ago, VaAllDay757 said:

They only went 2-14 one season 6 years ago lol it wasn't like this team always been bad

Didn't say they had been; but a lot of the talent that made up the other teams was gone. My point was that he took the helm of a team that was starting over.

[Jason_]

1 hour ago, VaAllDay757 said:

Don't like it? Don't reply anf sign off

 

Just as you havw the right to keep posting your crybaby posts, others have the right to comment on them. Don't like it? Don't reply, and sign off. 

[Dark Superman]

Well one sign isn't going to change the fact that Pagano and Grigson will be back next season. If you want change, stop buying tickets and leave the seats empty at LOS. That's one way to force a change in Indianapolis. OR. Hope the Colts don't make the playoffs next season and pray Irsay fires someone.. either way, I don't see change coming anytime soon.

[VaAllDay757]

57 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

Just as you havw the right to keep posting your crybaby posts, others have the right to comment on them. Don't like it? Don't reply, and sign off. 

You call it crybaby post like you haven't complained about something is wrong don't like oh well now shut up and keep moving

[jshipp23]

59 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

Just as you havw the right to keep posting your crybaby posts, others have the right to comment on them. Don't like it? Don't reply, and sign off. 

It is much worse to accept a losing mentality.The oh it could be worse look at the Browns mindset is sad...I don't understand how we went from AFC championship to 2 8-8 seasons, and now the mandate is get in the playoffs? ?? How does this happen? This will be year 6...I knew Pagano wasn't any good year 2, we didn't win anything because of him...

[NewColtsFan]

13 hours ago, VaAllDay757 said:

http://www.12up.com/posts/4378031-stop-wasting-luck-sign-appears-outside-colts-facility?a_aid=36534

 

Who cares about this?

 

Even if the sign was never posted it's clear that most everyone on this website would like one, if not both of them fired now.    

 

We know that.     The sign is just stating the obvious.

 

And, again,  we get back to this...........       Who?        Cares?

 

The fans want them fired.      The owner is not ready to do that at this time.     So, there we are.

 

And if someone posts another sign a week from now,  I'm going to say it again......

 

Who cares?

 

Can we move on please?

 

[NewColtsFan]

5 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

It is much worse to accept a losing mentality.The oh it could be worse look at the Browns mindset is sad...I don't understand how we went from AFC championship to 2 8-8 seasons, and now the mandate is get in the playoffs? ?? How does this happen? This will be year 6...I knew Pagano wasn't any good year 2, we didn't win anything because of him...

 

Unless you're not reading the website for the last two years,  how can you NOT KNOW how this happened?

 

One,  Andrew Luck got hurt.      Two, we fired our OC.     Three, we've spent 5 years trying to get the offense right that the defense has been neglected for far too long.

 

Contrary what some fans think,  this team is not remotely close to being in the Super Bowl.    We're not close to being 12-4.       

 

Our defense was ranked 30th.      Out of 32 teams.      That doesn't get fixed over night.     That's how we got here.      Now, you can argue that everything I've listed is reason to fire the guys at the top,  but Irsay disagrees and he makes the call,   not the fan base.

 

 

[gacoop1]

Opinions don't matter, just opinions.  We don't hire or fire, that's the front office job....All we are, are just dreamers, making wish list that never materialize, and no magic wand to make things happen.....So, we can keep dreaming folks and hoping for something.....Anyone believing Santa Claus?

[James Ducheteau]

19 hours ago, VocableLoki said:

Like take the team to the AFC CG? If you want to argue the team has plateaued then fine. However, stating that he has hurt the team more than helped simply isn't true.

 

No matter how this ends Pagano's time has been good for the team on the whole. 

We only get to the AFC CG because Luck and Hilton put up and incredible 2nd half against a KC team with out their stud RB or QB. Good coaching had nothing to do with it. Routinely being out coached and having to rely on heroic efforts form your star players to even get back into games has hurt this team's development greatly. 

[VaAllDay757]

8 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Who cares about this?

 

Even if the sign was never posted it's clear that most everyone on this website would like one, if not both of them fired now.    

 

We know that.     The sign is just stating the obvious.

 

And, again,  we get back to this...........       Who?        Cares?

 

The fans want them fired.      The owner is not ready to do that at this time.     So, there we are.

 

And if someone posts another sign a week from now,  I'm going to say it again......

 

Who cares?

 

Can we move on please?

 

I'm tell you what I told the other ones you don't like it then leave...anything colts related can be posted up here

[VaAllDay757]

3 minutes ago, James Ducheteau said:

We only get to the AFC CG because Luck and Hilton put up and incredible 2nd half against a KC team with out their stud RB or QB. Good coaching had nothing to do with it. Routinely being out coached and having to rely on heroic efforts form your star players to even get back into games has hurt this team's development greatly. 

Naw we beat KC the year before they went to the AFC Championship game

[jvan1973]

17 minutes ago, James Ducheteau said:

We only get to the AFC CG because Luck and Hilton put up and incredible 2nd half against a KC team with out their stud RB or QB. Good coaching had nothing to do with it. Routinely being out coached and having to rely on heroic efforts form your star players to even get back into games has hurt this team's development greatly. 

Except the colts didn't play the chiefs in the playoffs that year

[VocableLoki]

1 hour ago, James Ducheteau said:

We only get to the AFC CG because Luck and Hilton put up and incredible 2nd half against a KC team with out their stud RB or QB. Good coaching had nothing to do with it. Routinely being out coached and having to rely on heroic efforts form your star players to even get back into games has hurt this team's development greatly. 

We didn't play Kansas City the year we went to the AFC Championship Game.

[superrep1967]

18 hours ago, VocableLoki said:

Okay? Your point was that he has hurt the team more than helped. Clearly his accomplishments show  otherwise. It's not being an apologist to point what he has accomplished here. Again, if you want to say the team could accomplish more, fine. Don't behave as though Chuck has been a drag for five years when he took a 2-14 team to three playoffs wins in three years.

 

I know he is a nice guy and I like him to personally... But come on man!

[VocableLoki]

3 minutes ago, superrep1967 said:

I know he is a nice guy and I like him to personally... But come on man!

Again, just pointing out what he has accomplished.

[cclaser]

To top it off, the AFC Championship runner-up team greatly benefited from Bruce Arians.

[tfunky14]

10 hours ago, SupermanLuck12 said:

Well one sign isn't going to change the fact that Pagano and Grigson will be back next season. If you want change, stop buying tickets and leave the seats empty at LOS. That's one way to force a change in Indianapolis. OR. Hope the Colts don't make the playoffs next season and pray Irsay fires someone.. either way, I don't see change coming anytime soon.

good luck with that.. For every person who gives up their seat there are 10 people in line waiting to buy them.

[deedub75]

19 hours ago, VocableLoki said:

Okay? Your point was that he has hurt the team more than helped. Clearly his accomplishments show  otherwise. It's not being an apologist to point what he has accomplished here. Again, if you want to say the team could accomplish more, fine. Don't behave as though Chuck has been a drag for five years when he took a 2-14 team to three playoffs wins in three years.

 

They've hurt the team longterm.  Those playoff wins mean nothing for the present and the future.  

[OffensivelyPC]

1 hour ago, VaAllDay757 said:

I'm tell you what I told the other ones you don't like it then leave...anything colts related can be posted up here

And anything to the contrary can be posted up here.  If you don't like it, skip over it.  But if someone calls yoru thread pointless because they think it is, just suck it up and move on.

[VocableLoki]

6 minutes ago, deedub75 said:

 

They've hurt the team longterm.  Those playoff wins mean nothing for the present and the future.  

Okay but, again, Chuck has done more to help the team by virtue of the success here than to hurt it. Pagano also isn't making personnel decisions so I don't think he is the one hurting the team in the long terms. I would also say our future certainly looks better now than it did at the end of last season.

[deedub75]

1 minute ago, VocableLoki said:

Okay but, again, Luck has done more to help the team by virtue of the success here than to hurt it. Pagano also isn't making personnel decisions so I don't think he is the one hurting the team in the long terms. I would also say our future certainly looks better now than it did at the end of last season.

 

I fixed it for you. 

[VocableLoki]

14 minutes ago, deedub75 said:

 

I fixed it for you. 

And missed the point.

[Jason_]

10 hours ago, VaAllDay757 said:

You call it crybaby post like you haven't complained about something is wrong don't like oh well now shut up and keep moving

 

Sure I've complained about something that's wrong...but if/when I did I did NOT post those complaints in every single thread I could.  I didn't make things up to make the situation seem even worse than it really is.  I didn't start a new thread every day to have a new pulpit from which to express my displeasure.  And I certainly didn't resort to ticky tack, junior high nonsense such as saying "chuck, is that you" to anyone who provided a thoughtful, reasonable argument as to why I might just be wrong.

 

10 hours ago, jshipp23 said:

It is much worse to accept a losing mentality.The oh it could be worse look at the Browns mindset is sad...I don't understand how we went from AFC championship to 2 8-8 seasons, and now the mandate is get in the playoffs? ?? How does this happen? This will be year 6...I knew Pagano wasn't any good year 2, we didn't win anything because of him...

 

Who said the mandate was now just to get into the playoffs? 

 

Here's what I love about the situation...I've seen a few of the more rational "anti-Pagano" members say things like it's time to bring in a new coach, even if it means a down year because things sometimes have to get worse before they can get better.  And that's true and a valid point, but what I don't get is why that applies to a potential new HC but not Pagano, who just retooled his entire coaching staff last offseason.  You say that coming up is "year 6" of Pagano, which is true, but it's also only going to be year 2 of this particular coaching staff, and just like it would have happened with a new HC, reshaping the entire coaching staff UNDER the HC is also more often than not going to lead to things getting a little worse before they get better.

[lollygagger8]

22 hours ago, VocableLoki said:

No matter how this ends Pagano's time has been good for the team on the whole. 

 

I like the optimism, but I would say that this team has won in spite of Pagano being the coach, not because of. 

 

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, VaAllDay757 said:

I'm tell you what I told the other ones you don't like it then leave...anything colts related can be posted up here

Impressive......   

 

You must've spent 5 whole seconds writing that.   

 

I hope you weren't over-taxed....

 

If so,  lie-down and elevate your feet above your head so the blood can flow back there.....

 

Hope you're feeling better soon....

 

[VocableLoki]

22 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

I like the optimism, but I would say that this team has won in spite of Pagano being the coach, not because of. 

 

I would disagree but if that's your opinion, fine.

[ManningGM]

On 1/8/2017 at 7:56 PM, VocableLoki said:

Like take the team to the AFC CG? If you want to argue the team has plateaued then fine. However, stating that he has hurt the team more than helped simply isn't true.

 

No matter how this ends Pagano's time has been good for the team on the whole. 

Why do people keep pointing this out like it means anything?

 

The Colts went through an injured Bengals team in the wild card game, then faced the Broncos with a hobbled Peyton Manning who couldn't throw a deep ball to save his life. Nothing was impressive about that playoff run....we were due to get our * stomped by New England.

 

 

[VocableLoki]

31 minutes ago, ManningGM said:

Why do people keep pointing this out like it means anything?

 

The Colts went through an injured Bengals team in the wild card game, then faced the Broncos with a hobbled Peyton Manning who couldn't throw a deep ball to save his life. Nothing was impressive about that playoff run....we were due to get our * stomped by New England.

 

 

It means he took a team to an AFC Championship game.

 

Once again, the poster I was responding to claimed that Pagano was an unsuccessful coach. Going to the AFC Championship game is successful, no matter the circumstances. 

[Superman]

1 hour ago, VocableLoki said:

It means he took a team to an AFC Championship game.

 

Once again, the poster I was responding to claimed that Pagano was an unsuccessful coach. Going to the AFC Championship game is successful, no matter the circumstances. 

 

He didn't just say Pagano was unsuccessful, he said Pagano has hurt the Colts more than he's helped them, which is impressively ignorant, IMO.

[VocableLoki]

7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

He didn't just say Pagano was unsuccessful, he said Pagano has hurt the Colts more than he's helped them, which is impressively ignorant, IMO.

Fair enough, I have been in several debates recently about Pagano. I probably am confusing him for someone else.

 

And yes, I agree.

[VaAllDay757]

6 hours ago, OffensivelyPC said:

And anything to the contrary can be posted up here.  If you don't like it, skip over it.  But if someone calls yoru thread pointless because they think it is, just suck it up and move on.

Well obviously it's not pointless when people like you are posting in it here....carry on

[VaAllDay757]

5 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Impressive......   

 

You must've spent 5 whole seconds writing that.   

 

I hope you weren't over-taxed....

 

If so,  lie-down and elevate your feet above your head so the blood can flow back there.....

 

Hope you're feeling better soon....

 

Weak....next

[Jason_]

18 minutes ago, VaAllDay757 said:

Weak....next

 

you get what you give.