What are your thoughts on Grigsons latest draft class?

[Colts_Fan12]

Just now, jvan1973 said:

Because he is a physical freak.  Coaches can fix some,  some they can't.  We will see I guess

I just really value coverage when it comes to picking safeties. That's my only problem.

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I just really value coverage when it comes to picking safeties. That's my only problem.

Especially when the lbers can't cover their own shadow.  I'm with ya.

[Colts_Fan12]

Just now, jvan1973 said:

Especially when the lbers can't cover their own shadow.  I'm with ya.

So damn true! Looking at passed drafts this regime for some reason has ignored coverage at key positions like S LBer and it's really hurt the D. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

5 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

I have no issue with Grigson getting another year...They just mentioned Colts going after Saban on PTI though...more smoke..

 

Who mentioned it, and what was the context?

[jshipp23]

2 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Who mentioned it, and what was the context?

It led the show was 1st topic...They said is speculation about Colts, and reason they have been silent because Irsay has his eyes on SABAN...He has wanted Saban a long time and tried before to get him...So maybe that's what it is...

[Steamboat_Shaun]

1 minute ago, jshipp23 said:

It led the show was 1st topic...They said is speculation about Colts, and reason they have been silent because Irsay has his eyes on SABAN...He has wanted Saban a long time and tried before to get him...So maybe that's what it is...

 

Led the show... wow. That's intriguing.

[GwinnettColt]

2 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

I liked the Clark and Kelly picks, but I was against the Green pick from the start.  I think he was the lowest ranked safety in pass coverage in college, but I feel like Grigson fell in love with his physical attributes and had pipe dreams of turning him into Kam Chancellor 2.0.  Ridgeway has shown promise too

 

I think Green will be ok once he learns to play in a more disciplined manner.  Personally, I was hoping that we would have gone with Pass Rush/OLB in the 2nd.  

 

Ridgeway will be good for the D.

[twfish]

You guys for the most part have very little memory and very little foresight. Green was drafted as a project player, sure a little high for my liking, but he was intended to have a Geathers type year where he only come in here and there but mostly to sit back and learn and then what do you know injuries happen and he was thrusted into it. If we hadn't picked him you guys would be complaining why we didn't pick a safety. He has alot to learn but so do all the other rookies that's why there called ROOKIES. Some of you expect immediate all pros from a draft at every pick but that's not how it works. IMO if you can get 2 maybe 3 immediate starters in the draft that's pretty dang good any more is great. But hey alot of you want someone to come in that has never coached, scouted, or held any administrative position in a front office to be our next gm...

[BOTT]

4 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

It led the show was 1st topic...They said is speculation about Colts, and reason they have been silent because Irsay has his eyes on SABAN...He has wanted Saban a long time and tried before to get him...So maybe that's what it is...

that's a dead option IMO.  

[Steamboat_Shaun]

Just now, twfish said:

You guys for the most part have very little memory and very little foresight. Green was drafted as a project player, sure a little high for my liking, but he was intended to have a Geathers type year where he only come in here and there but mostly to sit back and learn and then what do you know injuries happen and he was thrusted into it. If we hadn't picked him you guys would be complaining why we didn't pick a safety. He has alot to learn but so do all the other rookies that's why there called ROOKIES. Some of you expect immediate all pros from a draft at every pick but that's not how it works. IMO if you can get 2 maybe 3 immediate starters in the draft that's pretty dang good any more is great. But hey alot of you want someone to come in that has never coached, scouted, or held any administrative position in a front office to be our next gm...

 

All of what you've said is true. And I fully expect Green to develop into a nice player, but it'll probably be around year 3 before we see REAL development there. That's a little long for a 2nd rounder, but it is what it is. In the meantime, he's cheap, and he's got a year of experience under his belt. It's gonna take some patience, and the right coaching, but I think his ceiling is higher than what a lot of others do.

 

Worst comes to worst, we can always convert him back to a WR. 

[Colts_Fan12]

14 minutes ago, twfish said:

You guys for the most part have very little memory and very little foresight. Green was drafted as a project player, sure a little high for my liking, but he was intended to have a Geathers type year where he only come in here and there but mostly to sit back and learn and then what do you know injuries happen and he was thrusted into it. If we hadn't picked him you guys would be complaining why we didn't pick a safety. He has alot to learn but so do all the other rookies that's why there called ROOKIES. Some of you expect immediate all pros from a draft at every pick but that's not how it works. IMO if you can get 2 maybe 3 immediate starters in the draft that's pretty dang good any more is great. But hey alot of you want someone to come in that has never coached, scouted, or held any administrative position in a front office to be our next gm...

Taking that big a project that early in round 2 is not very smart.

[twfish]

4 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Taking that big a project that early in round 2 is not very smart.

Don't forget we traded back got an extra pick and it was at the tail end of the the 2nd round. Would I have been happier with cody whitehair? Maybe but I also see the possible upside the green and have faith he's going to get better and that he will have a bright future

[Colts_Fan12]

Just now, twfish said:

Don't forget we traded back got an extra pick and it was at the tail end of the the 2nd round. Would I have been happier with cody whitehair? Maybe but I also see the possible upside the green and have faith he's going to get better and that he will have a bright future

I just don't think 2nd round and project pick goes together very well. 2nd round picks imo are premium picks. Should still be shooting for a player to compete for a staring spot.

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I just don't think 2nd round and project pick goes together very well. 2nd round picks imo are premium picks. Should still be shooting for a player to compete for a staring spot.

Teams draft project players in the first round every year.   I think I would err on the side of a safe pick early,   but teams get enamored with 40 times and bench press.   Sometimes they hit a home run,  Sometimes not so much

[BOTT]

Im not sure you can teach instincts and that's what scares me about green.

[twfish]

3 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I just don't think 2nd round and project pick goes together very well. 2nd round picks imo are premium picks. Should still be shooting for a player to compete for a staring spot.

To the first part that's very debatable. Every player that comes out of the draft is a project player because they are coming from college to the pro's and it's a totally diffrent game that's why there's so many bust. There is truly no "safe pick" because anyone can bust. Also the value is in the scouts and those who make the picks. If you see a player who has the potential to be even better than let's say Marvin Harrison but it may take a year of learning to get there do you make the pick or do you choose someone who will step in now and play okay but has no shot to ever make the pro bowl, be an all pro, or get into the hof?

[Colts_Fan12]

22 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Teams draft project players in the first round every year.   I think I would err on the side of a safe pick early,   but teams get enamored with 40 times and bench press.   Sometimes they hit a home run,  Sometimes not so much

That's what's wrong with the NFL Draft now teams get goo goo eyes over 40 times and measurables looking for that hidden gem player.

 

I'm with you give me the safe pick.

[jvan1973]

Just now, Colts_Fan12 said:

That's what's wrong with the NFL Draft now teams get goo goo eyes over 40 times and measurables looking for that hidden gem player.

I think some teams try to out think it.  I have no idea if that's true,  but it seems like it when guys like Johnny Football go in the first round

[Colts_Fan12]

16 minutes ago, twfish said:

To the first part that's very debatable. Every player that comes out of the draft is a project player because they are coming from college to the pro's and it's a totally diffrent game that's why there's so many bust. There is truly no "safe pick" because anyone can bust. Also the value is in the scouts and those who make the picks. If you see a player who has the potential to be even better than let's say Marvin Harrison but it may take a year of learning to get there do you make the pick or do you choose someone who will step in now and play okay but has no shot to ever make the pro bowl, be an all pro, or get into the hof?

Sure nothing is a guarantee but I'd rather take the safe pick who will be good instead of the bigger risk of a bust with a measurable guy. 

[Colts_Fan12]

2 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

I think some teams try to out think it.  I have no idea if that's true,  but it seems like it when guys like Johnny Football go in the first round

Amen to that lol 

[VocableLoki]

I think it's hard to pass judgment yet. The O-Line players all looked pretty good towards the end of the season but let's see if they can reduce quarterback hits going forward. Green is a boom or bust pick that doesn't look a boom at the moment. It's safe to say this isn't a wasted class (yet) but could be solid overall.

[Yoshinator]

My favorite draft class of Grigson's so far. Love me some Ryan Kelly. He's going to be a top 5 C in the next year or two. Green I'm a bit worried about, but he's not untalented, just very raw. Hopefully he learns. Love Clark. If you forced me to bet money on him, I'd put it on him being a regular starter for 10 years at RT. Ridgeway has shown some good stuff, Morrison has shown flashes as well as struggles. Haeg is an excellent pick in the 5th round. Not elite, but he'd start on a handful of teams (including ours), and can still improve. Bates was a bust, and Blythe is a backup, but that's ok.

 

Very good draft.

[CR91]

Ryan Kelly-Potential pro bowler with 10+ year career

TJ Green-Needs to develop, but solid defender with a unique skill set

Le'raven Clark-not enough film, but last three games showed a lot of potential

Antonio Morrison-hard hitter, solid backup

Hassen Ridgeway-Him and anderson could be a really good bookend at DE

 

[rock8591]

Grigsom has had far more hits than misses. Look at the Patriots' draft history sometime - literally 1-2 players from each draft are around the team the next year, save for bring no-namers.

 

e.g. Cyrus Jones - 7 tackles through 10 games. Can you imagine if we took Antonio Morrison and puts up 7 tackles in the second round?

[rock8591]

E.g. To continue further, look at the Seahawks' draft history since 2013. Save for Frank Clark, the vast majority are no names or bench players.

[masnerj]

My outlook:

 

First things first, for a GM to be considered "good" at his job I think he has to atleast bat .500 in the first four rounds. With this past draft class, Grigson has showed us that he can get rid of some of his old ways and be a better drafter. 

 

Kelly: Ceiling is as a top 5 center in the league with the floor of an above-average starter

 

TJ Green: I agree, this pick kind of came out of nowhere and I am pretty sure that his size and 40 time were basically the only reason he was drafted so early. Fans have to realize, this guy only started playing safety recently. There was talk of him being a CB in the NFL on draft day but let the guy learn and play safety. Ideal situation next year is that he doesn't start and instead comes of the bench in packages kind of like Geathers. That way he can learn without getting mentally roasted on the field everytime he starts. Rookie season was up then down but not completely surprised. Give him another year before talking of him as a bust. We, as fans, want 2nd round players to be starters right off the bat but sometimes risks like these pay off in a year or two. 

 

Clark: Like Green, we drafted him so early for one reason: His ideal body size, length, wing-span, etc. But he showed us that he responds well to coaching and I only expect that to be better. Just think of what he can do in the future. He certainly has the body of a long term LT, we just need him to keep getting better with mechanics, footwork, and mentally. 

 

Morrison: Yes he hasn't played great but as a 4th rounder he hasn't been terribly bad. Made some good plays but also has looked lost on the field at times. At worst he is good 2 down depth and a decent pinch starter with potential for becoming a 3 down starter. 

 

Haeg: One of Grigson's good finds. Really impressed that a 5th rounder came in and played multiple positions on an NFL offensive line. His ceiling is that of an above-average starter but at worst he is an average starter with versatility (kind of like Reitz but I like Haeg much more). 

 

This draft class has given me enough reason to grant Grigson another draft class. Grigson has shown us that he has improved as a GM. Yes we had a bad year, but a lot of it was coaching quality in some tight games and a lot of it was just a sheer lack of talent on the defensive side due to injuries and a quiet offseason. Give him another year, I think he will surprise some people and we will get a good defensive draft and offseason. 

 

 

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

Very very disappointed with TJ Green. He has been downright awful imo at covering and tackling. Hoping he can turn it around and be coached up but idk. Morrison sucks too but he was a late pick 

 

The rest of the guys have been imppressive though. For sure. Love the Kelly pick

[masnerj]

Regarding his picks for this year, as long as he tries to make picks more for instant players rather than drafting based on 5-6 year potential we will be fine. What I mean by that is drafting a guy like Henry Anderson over a guy like Green. Or drafting a guy like Ridgeway over a guy like Clark. 

 

This defense needs help NEXT YEAR not in 5-6 years. We can't afford to have 2-3 guys that are in our top 4 picks be "red-shirted" their first year in the league. Instant solid defensive players over hit/miss type guys is what our strategy should be for the first four rounds in this draft. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

3 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

I have no idea if that's true,  but it seems like it when guys like Johnny Football go in the first round

 

This tends to happen most to teams with owners & GMs that let fan sentiment dictate their draft picks a little too much. Nothing clouds a bad owner's long-term judgment like the thought of people not renewing their season tickets.

[Zach Boyd]

Overall the draft was ok I still like the fact he made a concerted effort to improve the line. Kelly will be very good I also believe Haeg is solid . But definitely not a slam dunk draft. 

[Surge89]

Kelly: ...indifferent.  Good player.  He's about where his potential is.  IMO (and in far from a GM) this was a wasted pick because of value.  The second and third round of this draft would have produced the same results with minimal negative difference.  Given the circumstances of his previous drafts though this pick is understandable... just sad that his previous first round picks led to this.

 

TJ Green: Let me start with the fact that I'm going to be extremely biased here.  When I did my usual yearly draft board I had Green slotted as a 6th rounder.  For all of his athleticism he fails to understand how to play DB.  His instincts are extremely worrying even when he was playing well early.  IMO this was a miss unless he starts getting some DB instincts overnight.  

 

Clark: Unlike many others I absolutely loved this pick from the get go.  Clark has things that you just can't teach and are usually deemed first round worthy.  But then... I saw him play against Philly in the preseason and man was I worried.  I'm very glad he started playing better late in the season and he has a ton of room to grow but I don't think he's going to reach the potential I thought he would.  Either way for a 3rd rounder I'm of the opinion this was a great pick.

 

Morrison: Again let me start with the fact that I'm biased with this one.  From the start I hated this pick.  I'm a big believer that ILB are the meat of your whole team and I value them absurdly high (probably way higher than most GMs).  They need athleticism and instincts.  And while Morrison has great attitude and is aggressive he lacks everywhere else.  He's a less athletic D'Qwell... IMO he is a 2 down backup ILB that would be 4th string on a defense like Pit.

 

Haeg: Oh... my... goodness...  This is a keeper.  I don't care if he's backup, starter, fill in, whatever role he plays I hope he does it in an Indy uniform for the next 10-15 years.  Starting on our oline with little chemistry playing any spot available and never once did he look like a lost cause is impressive for any lineman, veteran or rookie.

[Defjamz26]

18 hours ago, bababooey said:

At least in the first round, BPA didn't work for us in 2015, drafting for need did work for us in 2016.

My feeling is that's what he's going to do in this draft IF he stays. He's going to go status quo and draft the best players at positions of need. I think he might still take Cook if he's there, but if not I'm like 95% positive he's taking a guy like Malik McDowell, Charles Harris, Tak McKinley, or Reuben Foster. And every pick thereafter will be defense except for maybe a RB late.

[OLD FAN MAN]

all below average except kelly who is average 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

43 minutes ago, FACE REALITY said:

all below average except kelly who is average 

It wasnt a great draft, but that's just wrong. Kelly is above average, haeg is atleast average. And Clark at the end of the season looked right around average too..

[bababooey]

47 minutes ago, FACE REALITY said:

all below average except kelly who is average 

lol...this is not true

[Mameluc]

22 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

I liked the Clark and Kelly picks, but I was against the Green pick from the start.  I think he was the lowest ranked safety in pass coverage in college, but I feel like Grigson fell in love with his physical attributes and had pipe dreams of turning him into Kam Chancellor 2.0.  Ridgeway has shown promise too

i think pagano is as guilty as him on this.

[throwing BBZ]

21 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Clark and Kelly are good. I think Morrison is another none athletic LBer that sucks in coverage only starter here. Blythe isn't much of any impotence at all. Haeg is decent for where he was picked but prolly not a starter on any other NFL team. Green was the worst coverage saftey in the draft who in the hell thinks a player that is the worst in coverage at a position like safety is worthy of a 2nd pick.

 

 I see 2 very solid O-Lineman starters and a Good 3 position backup in Haeg. That is a good draft
  Green needs a ton of experience/work, but could be a difference maker by the end of year 3. 
   Not sure i would have Bought on draft day but i like his chances. I believe he has the Desire to be good.
 Ridgeway showed me plenty and has quality potential. A really good pick.
  Morrison or Jordan Howard? This was a real screw up taking a player with such serious limitations.
  Blythe as a 10th O-Lineman and backup center ONLY, looks like a solid move. The kid is tough and actually runs well enough to pull and get out to block on screens. Nice, cheap, insurance at a demanding position.
  I like this draft a Great deal.
  It is ALL about improving the front 7 on D NOW!!!!!

 

[jvan1973]

3 hours ago, FACE REALITY said:

all below average except kelly who is average 

Nonsense

[Steamboat_Shaun]

22 hours ago, rock8591 said:

Grigsom has had far more hits than misses. Look at the Patriots' draft history sometime - literally 1-2 players from each draft are around the team the next year, save for bring no-namers.

 

e.g. Cyrus Jones - 7 tackles through 10 games. Can you imagine if we took Antonio Morrison and puts up 7 tackles in the second round?

 

I agree with this 100% about New England. If they don't immediately see the type progress they want to in a player, they don't even bother to keep them around for the second or third season. But when they hit on a guy in the draft, they hit big. And their FA signings always turn out to be be fantastic.

[BOTT]

23 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

I agree with this 100% about New England. If they don't immediately see the type progress they want to in a player, they don't even bother to keep them around for the second or third season. But when they hit on a guy in the draft, they hit big. And their FA signings always turn out to be be fantastic.

Not so sure about that last sentence.