Reactions to Pagano's presser [Merge]

[DougDew]

Who has fostered the idea that there was going to be change in the front office, other than the media and the fans?    And those two parties don't count.

 

Irsay said several weeks ago to not expect any changes.  He's doesn't have the obligation to say something simply because the media and fans choose not to believe him.

[jvan1973]

Just now, Zach Boyd said:

Your gonna have a really hard time hiring a GM who is told he has to keep the current coach . That almost defeats the purpose of being a GM

It happens.  Also,  There is far more to being GM than hiring a coach

[superrep1967]

21 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

Maybe Irsay hasn't made up his mind yet.

 

He might be working on a new regime who knows. 

[Jason_]

Just now, superrep1967 said:

He might be working on a new regime who knows. 

 

eh he could be, but I doubt he'd put too much effort into putting together a new regime with the current one still in place.

[superrep1967]

Just now, Jason_S said:

 

eh he could be, but I doubt he'd put too much effort into putting together a new regime with the current one still in place.

 

Yeah, Well he was reportedly working with Sean Peyton last year before he kept Grigs and Pagano. 

[Zach Boyd]

3 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

It happens.  Also,  There is far more to being GM than hiring a coach

I can't think of one current GM that it's happened to it would be very rare. Hiring a staff is the GM thumbprint on the team that's all I'm saying

[Old Colt]

7 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Since they were not fired yesterday they are staying bet on it.

Agree... the longer he waits the further behind he gets in looking for a new coach.  all the big names already have several teams requesting permission to discuss their openings.  no news likely means they are staying put...

Remind me the definition of "Insanity" again.  Something about continuing to do the same thing and expecting different results?  I watched the Lions, Texans, Jags games and while i expected different results... they ended up the same.

[Reboot]

I think at this stage they both stay for 2017/18.  Every single time this year when asked, Irsay has supported both men, and has sworn he is patient, and this was going to require patience.  Even after the excruciating loss to Houston at home he supported both, said it's a long process, which requires time.  And I just don't see him working deals behind the curtain while both are still employed.  Sometimes you have to go on what Irsay says, and this whole year he has continued his support of both men. 

 

 

[jvan1973]

4 minutes ago, Zach Boyd said:

I can't think of one current GM that it's happened to it would be very rare. Hiring a staff is the GM thumbprint on the team that's all I'm saying

Lions last year

[Defjamz26]

I'm on the edge of my seat here. I wanna know already. But I take it, Grigson is thinking long and hard.

 

What are guys like Holder saying on Twitter?

[DougDew]

1 minute ago, Dirty Mudflaps said:

I think at this stage they both stay for 2017/18.  Every single time this year when asked, Irsay has supported both men, and has sworn he is patient, and this was going to require patience.  Even after the excruciating loss to Houston at home he supported both, said it's a long process, which requires time.  And I just don't see him working deals behind the curtain while both are still employed.  Sometimes you have to go on what Irsay says, and this whole year he has continued his support of both men. 

 

 

As I said above, the whole idea of firing someone has been created by the fans and the media.  Irsay never alluded to it and an 8-8 record generally doesn't warrant it.

 

Irsay is under no obligation to say anything more, so I'm not sure what everybody's waiting for.

 

[Zach Boyd]

2 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Lions last year

But that was his decision to retain Caldwell as the GM he wasn't told if u take this job you don't have a choice

[Corndog]

12 hours ago, VocableLoki said:

Again, I think we are a solid defense away from being much better than either. We handled the Titans at home this year and should have won by more on the road. Is the division better? Certainly. Is this a big offseason? Without question. I just think things aren't hopeless.

Talent wise, I agree, this team just needs to heavily focus on defense in the draft and it should be pretty complete.  The o-line should improve considering it's youth and for the most part the offense has all of the pieces.  

 

However,I have lost a lot of confidence in Pagano.  I could go rant about his deficiencies, the inconsistency,  poor game planning, decision making, and the fact that Luck isn't really progressing under him.  But I will just say, I don't think he is the right person to take us forward.   Mora was fine for Manning's first few years, but once the team was ready to be truly competitive, time to move on.  

 

 

[csmopar]

33 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

Remember last offseason?  We didn't hear anything for the first few days then either. 

uh no.... We found at at like 1130 pm on Black Monday last year? Remember the late night press conference?

[jvan1973]

3 minutes ago, Zach Boyd said:

But that was his decision to retain Caldwell as the GM he wasn't told if u take this job you don't have a choice

Rex Ryan stayed when Tannenbaum was fired

[coltsva]

Irsay may be trying to get a new regime lined up before firing them, but he is still required to abide by the Rooney rule for both positions. The only exception as far as I know is if Chud or another current Colts assistant has it in their contract that they are promoted to HC if the position opens up.

 

Pretty sure that's how it works, although not 100% sure. 

[JColts72]

I hope he goes. Even in his rambling press conference, he admitted to blowing some games. Right there is proof from sitting at home or preparing for a playoff game. How can Jimmy be happy with this and having the 3rd worst D?

[Zach Boyd]

My personal preference is to have a reset and let both of them go. That being said if they keep one or the other I prefer Grigson simply because he has started to show he is learning from his old mistake a little . There is never a time when Pagano is your coach and you have the upper hand

[Jason_]

5 minutes ago, csmopar said:

uh no.... We found at at like 1130 pm on Black Monday last year? Remember the late night press conference?

 

already been corrected

[Jason_]

1 minute ago, Zach Boyd said:

My personal preference is to have a reset and let both of them go. That being said if they keep one or the other I prefer Grigson simply because he has started to show he is learning from his old mistake a little . There is never a time when Pagano is your coach and you have the upper hand

 

I forgot the Colts went 0-16 the past 5 years with Pagano...never winning a game or even holding a lead.

[deedub75]

McDonalds is gonna be mad a Chuck for mentioning Burger King. LOL!

[pgt_rob]

Something tells me that he stays. Just a weird feeling. Means nothing. It's only been a couple days into the offseason. Tough decisions take a while to process, especially if you want to maintain continuity with your franchise. It would suck to have all new crew after we got a lot of new crew this season. Then to take it all away, new playbook, etc would suck but if it pays off, then it's worth it. Irsay is probably looking at his choices available and chatting with people before he says anything. Could take a while. Remember last offseason? It was a bit of a rollercoaster. 

[Zach Boyd]

3 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Rex Ryan stayed when Tannenbaum was fired

Your missing my point telling a GM he has to retain a coach never happens if the new GM decided that they want to keep the current coach That is his decision .. Far different from telling the new GM what he is gonna do

[JColts72]

Chuck's coaching cost us the division. Even he said so how some games won (Lions/Texans 1) became lost.

[deedub75]

12 hours ago, VocableLoki said:

They have a good, top ten defense. They are not the best in the NFL. Their o line is meh, skill position players aren't great other than Hopkins and QB is a huge hole. They ranked 29th in total offense, suggests they have holes.

 

Football Outsiders rated them the as one of the worst division winner sin history, I'm confident we can overtake them.

 

Had we won the division we would have taken that trophy. 

[jvan1973]

Just now, Zach Boyd said:

Your missing my point telling a GM he has to retain a coach never happens if the new GM decided that they want to keep the current coach That is his decision .. Far different from telling the new GM what he is gonna do

You don't know what the new GMs are told.  It's not like the new GM would make it public if the owner told him he had to keep the coach

[csmopar]

2 minutes ago, pgt_rob said:

Something tells me that he stays. Just a weird feeling. Means nothing. It's only been a couple days into the offseason. Tough decisions take a while to process, especially if you want to maintain continuity with your franchise. It would suck to have all new crew after we got a lot of new crew this season. Then to take it all away, new playbook, etc would suck but if it pays off, then it's worth it. Irsay is probably looking at his choices available and chatting with people before he says anything. Could take a while. Remember last offseason? It was a bit of a rollercoaster. 

Why is it people think it was a while last year before we knew?! It was at 1130pm on the first day of the offseason that we learned everything except for a few lower level staff changes.

[Zach Boyd]

4 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

I forgot the Colts went 0-16 the past 5 years with Pagano...never winning a game or even holding a lead.

Your too close the trees to see the Forrest. Your right he is a great coach 

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, Zach Boyd said:

Your too close the trees to see the Forrest. Your right he is a great coach 

He isn't a terrible coach is the point he was trying to make.   We could do much worse

[Zach Boyd]

2 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

You don't know what the new GMs are told.  It's not like the new GM would make it public if the owner told him he had to keep the coach

If you Google it you will simply see that in both instances the owner says that decision will be left up to the new GM

[jvan1973]

Just now, Zach Boyd said:

If you Google it you will simply see that in both instances the owner says that decision will be left up to the new GM

I'm sure they did say that publicly.  The jets GM liked Ryan so much,  he was fired the next season

[Jason_]

2 minutes ago, Zach Boyd said:

Your too close the trees to see the Forrest. Your right he is a great coach 

 

see, this is what is so aggravating about trying to debate with people like you...it always has to be one extreme or the other.  There is no middle ground.   Pagano either is hot garbage or he's a great coach. 

 

There's a lot of area in between.

[themacs@feathersnfins.net]

Like Where This Poster Is Going. Has A Grip On His  Emotions... Gotta Have Something Better To Make Change.. NOT Change Just To Make Change. Chuck Needs Time To Build MONSTER.. Need time & Another Draft  Gonna Go Make A All Defensive Draft .. Except For RB

[Somewhere ovr the Waynebow]

At this point he is staying.  We'd have an announcement otherwise at this point I think. 

 

When you have him and Griggles under contract for the next few years, you don't need to announce they are staying.  

[csmopar]

6 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

see, this is what is so aggravating about trying to debate with people like you...it always has to be one extreme or the other.  There is no middle ground.   Pagano either is hot garbage or he's a great coach. 

 

There's a lot of area in between.

Pagano isn't hot garbage but the fact that he doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes is my biggest problem with him. For years now, slow starts, lack of game planning and a desire to play 1970s style football that is so outdated that it doesn't work, are the tell tale signs Pagano needs to go

[Fisticuffs111]

24 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

see, this is what is so aggravating about trying to debate with people like you...it always has to be one extreme or the other.  There is no middle ground.   Pagano either is hot garbage or he's a great coach. 

 

There's a lot of area in between.

That brings up an interesting thought. I think Pagano's a below average coach but I feel like I've even seen that opinion get lumped with the "hot garbage" group by some. And vice versa, say anything positive about Pagano and it'll get spun into you thinking he's a great coach.

I think that like other sports blogs I've been to, some people just assume that the "other side" thinks he's either a great coach or a terrible coach, when in reality both sides probably think he's, like you imply, somewhere around the middle. I've defintely seen that here before. I'm guilty of it too at times.

Of course, the guy you're replying to very well could think Pagano is hot garbage. I'm just referring to stuff I've seen in the past.

[OffensivelyPC]

1 hour ago, Nadine said:

Theme song for this thread

 

Literally my first thought when I saw the thread headline...great minds think alike.

[Zach Boyd]

6 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

see, this is what is so aggravating about trying to debate with people like you...it always has to be one extreme or the other.  There is no middle ground.   Pagano either is hot garbage or he's a great coach. 

 

There's a lot of area in between.

I personally like Chuck as a person but as a coach in your words is Hot Garbage not because I think so the games tell us so the game planning tells us so the light are to bright for him . if he was an average coach that's what i would say no one extreme or the other I'm calling what it is . I am about the Horsehoe not about feelings my life has been dedicated to this team and this organization so I don't make these statements carelessly this is my belief my judgement I'm far from perfect but when it comes to this game and the evaluation of it I'm not lacking

[Jason_]

3 minutes ago, Zach Boyd said:

I personally like Chuck as a person but as a coach in your words is Hot Garbage not because I think so the games tell us so the game planning tells us so the light are to bright for him . if he was an average coach that's what i would say no one extreme or the other I'm calling what it is . I am about the Horsehoe not about feelings my life has been dedicated to this team and this organization so I don't make these statements carelessly this is my belief my judgement I'm far from perfect but when it comes to this game and the evaluation of it I'm not lacking

 

[OffensivelyPC]

 

2 minutes ago, Zach Boyd said:

I personally like Chuck as a person but as a coach in your words is Hot Garbage not because I think so the games tell us so the game planning tells us so the light are to bright for him . if he was an average coach that's what i would say no one extreme or the other I'm calling what it is . I am about the Horsehoe not about feelings my life has been dedicated to this team and this organization so I don't make these statements carelessly this is my belief my judgement I'm far from perfect but when it comes to this game and the evaluation of it I'm not lacking

Your problem is not that you agree or disagree with someone, it's that you tell them they are "too close to the trees to see the forrest" (which, is a comical misstatement of the phrase, by the way).  It's aggravating at best, ignorant/condescending/stupid at worst, when someone offers a contrary opinion and you dismiss it by simply saying - you're too biased to know wha'ts right.  Especially when someone's different opinion is a sort of neutral gesture - not too far on one side or the other.  In other words, when someone attempts neutrality and you shoot it down the way you did, you come across as the one who can't "see the forrest for the trees."