T.Y. Hilton/Marvin Harrison/Reggie Wayne Stats

[Caleb3502]

T.Y. Hilton, Marvin Harrison, and Reggie Wayne through their first 78 games:

 

Hilton: 374 catches, 5,861 yards, 30 TDs

Harrison: 424 catches, 5,735 yards, 50 TDs

Wayne:  308 catches, 4,231 yards, 28 TDs

 

T.Y. Hilton, Marvin Harrison, and Reggie Wayne career numbers (Hilton's total is based on what he is on pace for if he plays 200 career games.  Wayne played 211 games and Harrison played 190 games, so I took the average of the two numbers):

 

Hilton: 956 catches, 15,028 yards, 77 TDs 

Harrison: 1,102 catches, 14,507 yards, 128 TDs

Wayne: 1,070 catches, 14,345 yards, 82 TDs

 

[csmopar]

Just shows how special Marvin really was

[BOTT]

So you are saying those 3 are pretty good?

[Andrew Luck fan club]

Marvin was amazing. Sharpest cuts ever.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

TY has certainly had an impressive start to his career.  I still don't think he is ready to be put in the 'Marvin' category, but every year when he is doubted as a #1 WR (I have been a doubter myself) he seems to come back and show more and more.

 

While some knock his size, which I don't really think is fair, my biggest criticism of TY is that he still can be shut down and is not always very consistent from week to week.  This past season for example, he had one game with 1 catch for 20 yards and 0 TD and three 3 catch games (granted one was with a backup QB) where he wasn't getting in the endzone or really doing much to change the game (that is 25% of the season where he didn't really have a meaningful impact, IMO, too much for a true #1).  TY has some 'monster' games and then other weeks it seems like he's almost taken out of the game -- he has improved at this over his career, but to me, this is where he is being kept away from reaching 'Marvin status'.

 

If you go back and look at Marv's stats when from Peyton's second year for about 6 years, he had that one monster year (143 receptions, where he had 1 game with 4 catches and a TD and no other games with less than 6 catches), and then most other years he was just a little more consistent than TY.  Even in the few games he was held to little receptions, he usually had at least 1 big one (e.g., look at 2003 -- if you take out the meaningless week 17, he had 2 games where he had 3 receptions or fewer but he scored a TD of 30 yards or more in both... in 2000, he like TY had 4 games with 3 or less catches, but he scored long TDs in 2 of the games.. if you really start to dissect Marv's stats after Peyton's second year until the time he got injured, he is always just a little more consistent than TY was).

 

To TY's credit, he started his career with a rookie QB and was a 3rd round pick from a relatively small school (compared to Marv being a 1st round pick out of Syracuse with D. McNabb as his QB the year before he was drafted).  TY also played last season mostly with either a banged up Luck or a back-up, compared to Marv who started with an average QB in Harbaugh for 2 years before a shaky rookie season with Peyton -- the rest of his career he had consistency.  To TY's detriment (in comparing him to Marv, but not to his detriment as a player), he came into the league with Reggie Wayne being a serious threat next to him and has played most of his career with at least one other solid pass catching option in the offense, compared to Marv who really didn't have any legit threat as a pass catcher to take pressure off him until his 6th or 7th year when Wayne started to produce.

 

Overall, I love TY -- glad he's a Colt.  He seems like a great guy, and I think he's hilarious.  He's put up very impressive stats to start his career, and it is a huge accomplishment for him to have won the receiving award for most yards this season.  However, IMO, he needs to improve his consistency (just a little bit) and prove himself over a longer duration before we start comparing him to Marv the HOFer (and Reggie for that matter, who I think will be in the HOF after 2 or 3 years of eligibility). 

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, 12to13 said:

Marvin was amazing. Sharpest cuts ever.

And hands like glue. Some of those catches just left you speechless

[csmopar]

13 minutes ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

TY has certainly had an impressive start to his career.  I still don't think he is ready to be put in the 'Marvin' category, but every year when he is doubted as a #1 WR (I have been a doubter myself) he seems to come back and show more and more.

 

While some knock his size, which I don't really think is fair, my biggest criticism of TY is that he still can be shut down and is not always very consistent from week to week.  This past season for example, he had one game with 1 catch for 20 yards and 0 TD and three 3 catch games (granted one was with a backup QB) where he wasn't getting in the endzone or really doing much to change the game (that is 25% of the season where he didn't really have a meaningful impact, IMO, too much for a true #1).  TY has some 'monster' games and then other weeks it seems like he's almost taken out of the game -- he has improved at this over his career, but to me, this is where he is being kept away from reaching 'Marvin status'.

 

If you go back and look at Marv's stats when from Peyton's second year for about 6 years, he had that one monster year (143 receptions, where he had 1 game with 4 catches and a TD and no other games with less than 6 catches), and then most other years he was just a little more consistent than TY.  Even in the few games he was held to little receptions, he usually had at least 1 big one (e.g., look at 2003 -- if you take out the meaningless week 17, he had 2 games where he had 3 receptions or fewer but he scored a TD of 30 yards or more in both... in 2000, he like TY had 4 games with 3 or less catches, but he scored long TDs in 2 of the games.. if you really start to dissect Marv's stats after Peyton's second year until the time he got injured, he is always just a little more consistent than TY was).

 

To TY's credit, he started his career with a rookie QB and was a 3rd round pick from a relatively small school (compared to Marv being a 1st round pick out of Syracuse with D. McNabb as his QB the year before he was drafted).  TY also played last season mostly with either a banged up Luck or a back-up, compared to Marv who started with an average QB in Harbaugh for 2 years before a shaky rookie season with Peyton -- the rest of his career he had consistency.  To TY's detriment (in comparing him to Marv, but not to his detriment as a player), he came into the league with Reggie Wayne being a serious threat next to him and has played most of his career with at least one other solid pass catching option in the offense, compared to Marv who really didn't have any legit threat as a pass catcher to take pressure off him until his 6th or 7th year when Wayne started to produce.

 

Overall, I love TY -- glad he's a Colt.  He seems like a great guy, and I think he's hilarious.  He's put up very impressive stats to start his career, and it is a huge accomplishment for him to have won the receiving award for most yards this season.  However, IMO, he needs to improve his consistency (just a little bit) and prove himself over a longer duration before we start comparing him to Marv the HOFer (and Reggie for that matter, who I think will be in the HOF after 2 or 3 years of eligibility). 

I don't think anyone was saying he was in the Marvin category. I think the OP was simply showing just how good TY is despite the doubters. I agree with the rest of your posts but keep in mind what really makes Marv special is that he did this with the likes of a Dallas Clark, Reggie Wayne, Brandon Stokely, Ben utech and others . But it also speaks to TY as well, he simply can be double teamed because who does he have consistently making plays along side him?

[Andrew Luck fan club]

5 minutes ago, csmopar said:

And hands like glue. Some of those catches just left you speechless

And the best work ethic you could ask for. That's why he's in the hof

[ColtsFanMikeC]

1 minute ago, csmopar said:

I don't think anyone was saying he was in the Marvin category. I think the OP was simply showing just how good TY is despite the doubters. I agree with the rest of your posts but keep in mind what really makes Marv special is that he did this with the likes of a Dallas Clark, Reggie Wayne, Brandon Stokely, Ben utech and others . But it also speaks to TY as well, he simply can be double teamed because who does he have consistently making plays along side him?

 

Marv was consistently doubled for many years.  Marv came into the league in 1996... Reggie didn't get drafted until 2001, and didn't really do anything to solidify himself as a true threat until 2003 (he had 27 catches and 49 catches in 2001 and 2002, which were 2 of Marv's best years).  Clark didn't come into the league until 2003.  Ben Utecht was OK, but wasn't around long and was never more than just OK.... so even in years when Marv could be doubled (2002 a prime example, when he was doubled or tripled every week and still hauled in 143 catches), he was effective against it... that is a knock I have on TY, sometimes when defenses focus on him, he gets taken out of the game almost all together.

[dgambill]

4 hours ago, csmopar said:

Just shows how special Marvin really was

Don't forget the rules were VASTLY different when Marvin and Peyton first came into the league. The hits on QBs, the holding and grabbing in the secondary, the hits on defenseless players. Totally different game back then. It is why Luck and Hiltons early career numbers look so incredible up against Manning and company's numbers. With the OL we have had not sure Luck would still be playing if he came in the league back then. He's a tough kid but he couldn't take the number of his he has under the rules back in the day...and certainly the passing game is much much easier now. Heck even Kirk Cousins is throwing for like 4000 yds. It's not even close....nobody is in marvins category on this team. Marvin was Antonio brown before Antonio...ina different era too.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

My god.  Marvin truly is Marvelous.  

 

I miss that man.  I remember forcing my Steelers fan dad buying me a Chinese knockoff Harrison Jersey when I was just a tike.  I still have it in my keepsakes box 

[BOTT]

1 hour ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

 

Marv was consistently doubled for many years.  Marv came into the league in 1996... Reggie didn't get drafted until 2001, and didn't really do anything to solidify himself as a true threat until 2003 (he had 27 catches and 49 catches in 2001 and 2002, which were 2 of Marv's best years).  Clark didn't come into the league until 2003.  Ben Utecht was OK, but wasn't around long and was never more than just OK.... so even in years when Marv could be doubled (2002 a prime example, when he was doubled or tripled every week and still hauled in 143 catches), he was effective against it... that is a knock I have on TY, sometimes when defenses focus on him, he gets taken out of the game almost all together.

They had ken Dilger and Marcus Pollard for a time....Ben Utecht? And being the #1 in a Tim Moore offense means you are going to catch a ton of passes.....see Herman Moore.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

8 hours ago, BOTT said:

They had ken Dilger and Marcus Pollard for a time....Ben Utecht? And being the #1 in a Tim Moore offense means you are going to catch a ton of passes.....see Herman Moore.

 

The guy I was quoting threw Utecht into this, which is why I used his name.  Ken Dilger and Pollard were good, but really not much (if any) better than Fleener/Allen/Doyle.  

 

Herman Moore is one example, and Herman Moore was a very good WR in his prime and one of the first very tall/big athletic WRs in the league.  

 

Being a #1 WR in any system should mean you are going to catch a ton of passes.  Marvin likely faced more double teams (and triple teams) in the same amount of games that TY has, and Marvin was more consistent and was almost never shut down... most times he was 'shut down' in terms of catches, he still managed to make a big play or two to get in the end zone or impact the game.  TY has shown he is capable of being pretty much taken out of a game several times throughout his young career.

Again, I like TY, and very glad he's a Colt.  My point was, for those who like to try to compare TY to Marvin, is that TY has had just as much (perhaps more) support around him in terms of WRs/TEs, and while he puts up good numbers, he is still a bit more inconsistent than Marvin was.

[Mr Coffee]

8 hours ago, dgambill said:

Don't forget the rules were VASTLY different when Marvin and Peyton first came into the league. The hits on QBs, the holding and grabbing in the secondary, the hits on defenseless players. Totally different game back then. It is why Luck and Hiltons early career numbers look so incredible up against Manning and company's numbers. With the OL we have had not sure Luck would still be playing if he came in the league back then. He's a tough kid but he couldn't take the number of his he has under the rules back in the day...and certainly the passing game is much much easier now. Heck even Kirk Cousins is throwing for like 4000 yds. It's not even close....nobody is in marvins category on this team. Marvin was Antonio brown before Antonio...ina different era too.

I'm glad you mentioned this.  The game has changed, which is why it's annoying when people compare PM's and Luck's first five years in the L and try to say that Luck had a better start to his career.  Same with comparing TY to Marvin and Wayne. 

 

That being said, TY and Luck are good players, and the sky is the limit for both of them, as long as things change in the FO.  I could see TY being as good as Wayne one day, but man, Marvin was something truly special, as others have said.  

[ReMeDy]

Several of those 50 Marvin TD's came from Peyton throwing the corner fade route to Harrison in the endzone. They talked about how they worked on that route so much, and Harrison's athleticism combined with Peyton's accuracy and their preparation made it seem like child's play. Even when defenses knew it was coming, it was hard to stop.

[Mr Coffee]

Just now, ReMeDy said:

Several of those 50 Marvin TD's came from Peyton throwing the corner fade route to Harrison in the endzone. They talked about how they worked on that route so much, and Harrison's athleticism combined with Peyton's accuracy and their preparation made it seem like child's play. Even when defenses knew it was coming, it was hard to stop.

Does anyone know if Luck practices with TY and gus other receivers as much as Peyton did?  What Peyton did with Marvin and the Edge wasn't the norm.  I know that Luck is a diligent student if the game, but I wonder if he puts in the time with other players that Manning did.

[Mr Coffee]

Just now, Mr Coffee said:

Does anyone know if Luck practices with TY and his other receivers as much as Peyton did?  What Peyton did with Marvin and the Edge wasn't the norm.  I know that Luck is a diligent student of the game, but I wonder if he puts in the time with other players that Manning did.

 

[James]

TY's playoff production beats Marvin's. That's impressive.

[BOTT]

8 minutes ago, Mr Coffee said:

I'm glad you mentioned this.  The game has changed, which is why it's annoying when people compare PM's and Luck's first five years in the L and try to say that Luck had a better start to his career.  Same with comparing TY to Marvin and Wayne. 

 

That being said, TY and Luck are good players, and the sky is the limit for both of them, as long as things change in the FO.  I could see TY being as good as Wayne one day, but man, Marvin was something truly special, as others have said.  

 

Considering the circumstances and the way the seasons ended, I don't thinks it's unwarranted to say Luck was more impressive than Peyton his first few years.  I honestly thought the colts offense was somewhat of a paper tiger until yr 5-6 of Manning.....and it showed in the playoffs.

[BOTT]

2 minutes ago, James said:

TY's playoff production beats Marvin's. That's impressive.

 

That's not saying a whole lot

[Mr Coffee]

11 minutes ago, BOTT said:

 

Considering the circumstances and the way the seasons ended, I don't thinks it's unwarranted to say Luck was more impressive than Peyton his first few years.  I honestly thought the colts offense was somewhat of a paper tiger until yr 5-6 of Manning.....and it showed in the playoffs.

That's a good point.  I just don't like when people base their assumption on stats alone, since stats are more of an apples vs oranges type of comparison. 

 

But yeah, with Luck walking into the situation that he did, fewer weapons than Peyton had, and actually WINNING playoff games, I can see your point. 

[Mr Coffee]

17 minutes ago, James said:

TY's playoff production beats Marvin's. That's impressive.

Unfortunately, Marvin had a history of disappearing in a lot of big playoff games.  

[BOTT]

5 minutes ago, Mr Coffee said:

That's a good point.  I just don't like when people base their assumption on stats alone, since stats are more of an apples vs oranges type of comparison. 

 

But yeah, with Luck walking into the situation that he did, fewer weapons than Peyton had, and actually WINNING playoff games, I can see your point. 

Yeah, I hate when people rely on stats alone.  I remember when people were comparing Blair White's rookie stats to Reggie's as proof that White was a quality player.....

[LockeDown]

19 minutes ago, Mr Coffee said:

Unfortunately, Marvin had a history of disappearing in a lot of big playoff games.  

Marvin was held by Ty Law and company a lot in the playoffs. Infuriated Polian.  

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, Mr Coffee said:

I'm glad you mentioned this.  The game has changed, which is why it's annoying when people compare PM's and Luck's first five years in the L and try to say that Luck had a better start to his career.  Same with comparing TY to Marvin and Wayne. 

 

That being said, TY and Luck are good players, and the sky is the limit for both of them, as long as things change in the FO.  I could see TY being as good as Wayne one day, but man, Marvin was something truly special, as others have said.  

Marvin...wow. In his prime maybe only jerry rice id take ahead of him. With these rules now...hands off defense...dang Peyton and company would be destroying the league. It's a different game. It's why records that Marino and Favre for the most part put up were so impressive. Even Peyton wouldn't have had the numbers without the rule change....but people forget the first 6 or 7 years were played under a different rule system. It's a completely different game.

[ReMeDy]

19 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Marvin...wow. In his prime maybe only jerry rice id take ahead of him. With these rules now...hands off defense...dang Peyton and company would be destroying the league. It's a different game. It's why records that Marino and Favre for the most part put up were so impressive. Even Peyton wouldn't have had the numbers without the rule change....but people forget the first 6 or 7 years were played under a different rule system. It's a completely different game.

 

I wonder if that's another reason why Belichick favors so many TE receivers, is because not only do defenses have to respect the passing rules, but they have to walk a fine line in out-muscling the TE's when it comes to defending the pass, and for some of these undersized CB's, that's a hard responsibility.

[Valpo2004]

The guys on the other side of TY have not really been that great after Reggie got hurt in 2013.  

 

Reggie was never really the same in 2014 and TY has never really had a strong #2 receiver since that injury.

 

Maybe his best #2 since that injury was Moncrief last year, but this year Moncrief was hurt for about half the year and Dorsett has not picked up the slack.

 

And I'm not even sure Moncrief has been that good.  This year when he was playing he's only averaged 34.1 yards per game.  Compare that with some other #2 guys.  

 

Brandon Lafell: 53.9 yards per game - (To be fair he was the #1 for some of the season while AJ Green was hurt)

Will Fuller - 45.4 yards per game

Allen Hurns - 43.4 yards per game

 

Plus we lacked Fleener's receiving ability on the field.  TY got all the yards he did because he was the only decent target much of the time.  

 

 

 

 

 

[GoColtsWin]

13 hours ago, BOTT said:

 

That's not saying a whole lot

Was gonna say the same thing lol! Love Marvelous, but dude did a disappearing act in the playoffs it seemed. 

[dgambill]

21 hours ago, ReMeDy said:

 

I wonder if that's another reason why Belichick favors so many TE receivers, is because not only do defenses have to respect the passing rules, but they have to walk a fine line in out-muscling the TE's when it comes to defending the pass, and for some of these undersized CB's, that's a hard responsibility.

I think belicheck actually prefers hard nosed shifty receivers. Watch NE and u will instantly see much of their passing yards are YAC. He loves to put pressure on your defense to tackle. How many times do you see corners that can't tackle give up a first down. Honestly he likes to exploit mismatches and the easiest mismatch in football is to get a lb on an athletic TE or as NE loves as well on a shifty RB out of the backfield. 

[lollygagger8]

Man, those stats are awesome. Thanks for posting! 

 

It'd be interesting to see which one leads in YAC. 

[Vinatieri4]

18 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

Man, those stats are awesome. Thanks for posting! 

 

It'd be interesting to see which one leads in YAC. 

 

Marvin used to fall down after catching to avoid a big hit. I would imagine TY, but would definitely be interesting to see. 

 

 

It is crazy looking at the amount of yardage TY gets on way less catches, yet the amount of touchdowns Marvin caught. 

[BullsColtsFan1]

Three of the best right there! 

[Caleb3502]

6 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

Man, those stats are awesome. Thanks for posting! 

 

It'd be interesting to see which one leads in YAC. 

 

6 hours ago, Vinatieri4 said:

 

Marvin used to fall down after catching to avoid a big hit. I would imagine TY, but would definitely be interesting to see. 

 

 

It is crazy looking at the amount of yardage TY gets on way less catches, yet the amount of touchdowns Marvin caught. 

 

According to Fox Sports & Sporting Charts: 

 

Through their first 5 seasons

T.Y. Hilton has 1,893 yards after the catch

Marvin Harrison had 1,319 yards after the catch

Reggie Wayne had 1,206 yards after the catch

[Vinatieri4]

3 great wide outs, getting it done 3 different ways!