Chuck Pagano the Next Marvin Lewis?

[1959Colts]

Chuck Pagano could be the next Marvin Lewis | Cover32

[Jason_]

Chucks already won some playoff games so....no

[2006Coltsbestever]

No, Chuck made it to the Championship Game. Lewis has had better teams than us and has never won a Playoff game.

[21isSuperman]

While Lewis has never won a playoff game as a head coach, I think he's a better coach than Pagano.  Lewis helped rebuild the Bengals from the basement of the NFL to one of the more talented rosters in the game today.  He had a lot of headaches to deal with, including Carson Palmer demanding a trade and Ocho being Ocho, and has still overcome them to make the roster what it is now.  He's also never had a QB like Luck.

[indyagent17]

Marvin Lewis is in a class by himself. So many years with nothing to show for it. Regular season wins are not Playoff wins

[YourNextGM]

Marvin Lewis is a better coach than Pagano.  

[GoColts8818]

2 hours ago, Jason_S said:

Chucks already won some playoff games so....no

Including one over Marvin Lewis.

[Synthetic]

Lewis at least has a ring with a historic great defense. Pagano isn't getting a ring weather a coordinator or head coach. 

[ReMeDy]

"And if you take away Pagano’s 23-6 division record, his overall record is a mediocre 26-24."

 

Hmm, I didn't know it was that mediocre. I'm beginning to have second-thoughts about winning the Superbowl with this team, like ever...

[Superman]

I can't believe there are people defending Marvin Lewis in this thread. And I'm accused of being content with mediocrity...

 

He's been the head coach for 14 years, and has never won a playoff game. Rex Ryan, Mike Smith, Wade Phillips, Norv Turner, Ken Whisenhunt -- all coaches who have been hired and fired, some twice, since Lewis has been in Cincinnati, and all of them have more playoff wins than him. 

In 14 years, he's exactly 14 games over .500. He's basically a perennial 9-7 coach. He has 3 ties; this board would melt down like the Wicked Witch of the West if the Colts ever had a tie. He has four losing seasons and three 8-8 seasons. They've missed the playoffs 7 of his 14 years.

 

This is the definition of mediocre. And it's been going on for a decade and a half, so there's no hope of him getting better.

 

The only defense for Marvin Lewis keeping his job is 'but they were so awful before he got there!' Wow.

 

If the Bengals had gotten rid of him anytime after his 6th year, in which they won 4 games, they could have hired Jon Harbaugh, Mike Tomlin, Whisenhunt, Pete Carroll, Jim Harbaugh, John Fox, Gary Kubiak -- all coaches who have at least been to the SB. 

 

SMH...

[AZColt11]

What's the point?  Both are very average to below average.  Neither for me.

[jvan1973]

8 hours ago, Synthetic said:

Lewis at least has a ring with a historic great defense. Pagano isn't getting a ring weather a coordinator or head coach. 

I heard the same thing about many coaches.  You can't see into the future "weather" you believe it or not

[chad72]

The closest similarity is Norv Turner, IMO. Had a few years of decent playoff success, 1 AFCCG appearance, no SB appearance, some playoff wins but highly inconsistent performances out of his Chargers squads after 2009 especially. He had a good run from 2007-2009 but then the inconsistency took over.

 

He'll have a good win vs the Colts, then turn around and lose to the Browns, I find remarkable similarities between Norv and Pagano.

[jameszeigler834]

10 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

Including one over Marvin Lewis.

But lets face facts he is terrible at his job.

[indyagent17]

35 minutes ago, chad72 said:

The closest similarity is Norv Turner, IMO. Had a few years of decent playoff success, 1 AFCCG appearance, no SB appearance, some playoff wins but highly inconsistent performances out of his Chargers squads after 2009 especially. He had a good run from 2007-2009 but then the inconsistency took over.

 

He'll have a good win vs the Colts, then turn around and lose to the Browns, I find remarkable similarities between Norv and Pagano.

That is a great analogy. Norv and Chuck are very much alike but they are not good head coaches, Norv is a solid coordinator but with Chuck being a defensive specialist and creating a such a poor defense I am not sure Chuck should be working anywhere else once he leaves here

[jvan1973]

19 minutes ago, indyagent17 said:

That is a great analogy. Norv and Chuck are very much alike but they are not good head coaches, Norv is a solid coordinator but with Chuck being a defensive specialist and creating a such a poor defense I am not sure Chuck should be working anywhere else once he leaves here

The world's best chef can't make lasagna with rice and kale 

[RockThatBlue]

I think the best comparison to Pagano is actually Jim Caldwell. Good enough to get you to the playoffs sometimes, but a guy that will probably not win a super bowl. 

 

 

[chad72]

29 minutes ago, indyagent17 said:

That is a great analogy. Norv and Chuck are very much alike but they are not good head coaches, Norv is a solid coordinator but with Chuck being a defensive specialist and creating a such a poor defense I am not sure Chuck should be working anywhere else once he leaves here

 

Chuck's reputation was earned because of his secondary pedigree first, then his DC job with talent like Ray Lewis, Ed Reed and Ngata to boost. I do think he can be a great secondary coach but when you are a HC, you delegate to your DC, tell him what you want in your D and tend to not micromanage unless necessary. Being a HC brings up a totally different set of responsibilities outside defensive play calling. We don't know that given the right talent and being able to focus on just D, if Pagano would be a better DC. History says he should be.

 

Since HC and DC are two different balls of wax, it is hard to extrapolate how he will do as DC in the future based on his current performance at HC.

[1959Colts]

Looks like even after a bad 5-9 season,

Marvin is coming back

 

Marvin Lewis: 'I'll be back' with Cincinnati Bengals - NFL.com

[chad72]

13 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

The world's best chef can't make lasagna with rice and kale 

 

There is gluten free lasagna that you can make with rice flour with crushed kale or spinach thrown in, just won't taste like the regular thing, I have had it and it tastes fine if you make it right. 

 

However, I do get your point.

[#12.]

10 hours ago, ReMeDy said:

"And if you take away Pagano’s 23-6 division record, his overall record is a mediocre 26-24."

 

Hmm, I didn't know it was that mediocre. I'm beginning to have second-thoughts about winning the Superbowl with this team, like ever...

Just now?

 

The Norv Charger teams were so much better than this team.  The '06 team the Pats thankfully knocked out for us was probably one of the best teams ever to not win a Super Bowl.

[21isSuperman]

10 hours ago, Superman said:

I can't believe there are people defending Marvin Lewis in this thread. And I'm accused of being content with mediocrity...

 

He's been the head coach for 14 years, and has never won a playoff game. Rex Ryan, Mike Smith, Wade Phillips, Norv Turner, Ken Whisenhunt -- all coaches who have been hired and fired, some twice, since Lewis has been in Cincinnati, and all of them have more playoff wins than him. 

In 14 years, he's exactly 14 games over .500. He's basically a perennial 9-7 coach. He has 3 ties; this board would melt down like the Wicked Witch of the West if the Colts ever had a tie. He has four losing seasons and three 8-8 seasons. They've missed the playoffs 7 of his 14 years.

 

This is the definition of mediocre. And it's been going on for a decade and a half, so there's no hope of him getting better.

 

The only defense for Marvin Lewis keeping his job is 'but they were so awful before he got there!' Wow.

 

If the Bengals had gotten rid of him anytime after his 6th year, in which they won 4 games, they could have hired Jon Harbaugh, Mike Tomlin, Whisenhunt, Pete Carroll, Jim Harbaugh, John Fox, Gary Kubiak -- all coaches who have at least been to the SB. 

 

SMH...

Marvin helped take the Bengals from perennial loser to one of the better rosters in the league.  Pagano's team actually seems to be getting worse each year, and his coaching decisions are playing a big part in it.  In 2002, the Bengals went 2-14 and they hired Lewis.  He didn't have a losing season until 2007, where he went 7-9.  He also has 5 consecutive seasons of making the playoffs from 2011 to 2015, which Pagano can't claim.  He's also been coaching in one of the league's toughest divisions, which Pagano can't claim.  He has also done all of this without a QB of Luck's caliber.

 

Are you really going to claim the Bengals would have been better off hiring Whisenhunt or John Fox?

[jvan1973]

27 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

There is gluten free lasagna that you can make with rice flour with crushed kale or spinach thrown in, just won't taste like the regular thing, I have had it and it tastes fine if you make it right. 

 

However, I do get your point.

No,   just.... No

[jvan1973]

4 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

Marvin helped take the Bengals from perennial loser to one of the better rosters in the league.  Pagano's team actually seems to be getting worse each year, and his coaching decisions are playing a big part in it.  In 2002, the Bengals went 2-14 and they hired Lewis.  He didn't have a losing season until 2007, where he went 7-9.  He also has 5 consecutive seasons of making the playoffs from 2011 to 2015, which Pagano can't claim.  He's also been coaching in one of the league's toughest divisions, which Pagano can't claim.  He has also done all of this without a QB of Luck's caliber.

 

Are you really going to claim the Bengals would have been better off hiring Whisenhunt or John Fox?

Fox has been to two superbowls

[jvan1973]

5 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

Marvin helped take the Bengals from perennial loser to one of the better rosters in the league.  Pagano's team actually seems to be getting worse each year, and his coaching decisions are playing a big part in it.  In 2002, the Bengals went 2-14 and they hired Lewis.  He didn't have a losing season until 2007, where he went 7-9.  He also has 5 consecutive seasons of making the playoffs from 2011 to 2015, which Pagano can't claim.  He's also been coaching in one of the league's toughest divisions, which Pagano can't claim.  He has also done all of this without a QB of Luck's caliber.

 

Are you really going to claim the Bengals would have been better off hiring Whisenhunt or John Fox?

Lewis hasn't won ONE playoff game as a head coach.  Cmon man

[21isSuperman]

6 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Fox has been to two superbowls

Fox was just along for the ride when Peyton took them to the Super Bowl.  And his awful Super Bowl week preparations contributed to the beat down we all witnessed

 

6 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Lewis hasn't won ONE playoff game as a head coach.  Cmon man

I understand Lewis' shortcomings, but I strongly disagree that Pagano is a better coach.  Pagano was gifted with Luck.  Lewis was given the headache that was Ochocinco

[Jason_]

22 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

Pagano's team actually seems to be getting worse each year,

 

No, it doesn't

[Colts_Fan12]

They both suck so who cares. I was thinking the point of the article is Irsay will never fire Pagano just like Cincinnati won't fire Lewis. 

[jvan1973]

14 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

Fox was just along for the ride when Peyton took them to the Super Bowl.  And his awful Super Bowl week preparations contributed to the beat down we all witnessed

 

I understand Lewis' shortcomings, but I strongly disagree that Pagano is a better coach.  Pagano was gifted with Luck.  Lewis was given the headache that was Ochocinco

You forget that Chad Johnson had some pretty awesome seasons in cincy,  as did Carson Palmer.    If we had a coach go 13 years without a single playoff win,  this place would go nuts.

[21isSuperman]

12 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

You forget that Chad Johnson had some pretty awesome seasons in cincy,  as did Carson Palmer.    If we had a coach go 13 years without a single playoff win,  this place would go nuts.

Put this team in the AFC North and put Lewis' Bengals in the AFC South.  Do you really think our Colts teams could compete with the Steelers and Ravens teams of years past?

 

25 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

No, it doesn't

You can make the case it is.  It's certainly not getting much better.

[Superman]

45 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

Marvin helped take the Bengals from perennial loser to one of the better rosters in the league.  Pagano's team actually seems to be getting worse each year, and his coaching decisions are playing a big part in it.  In 2002, the Bengals went 2-14 and they hired Lewis.  He didn't have a losing season until 2007, where he went 7-9.  He also has 5 consecutive seasons of making the playoffs from 2011 to 2015, which Pagano can't claim.  He's also been coaching in one of the league's toughest divisions, which Pagano can't claim.  He has also done all of this without a QB of Luck's caliber.

 

He is the standard bearer for mediocrity, and he's been carrying that flag for 14 years. It's amazing that one can deride Pagano while defending Lewis.

 

Quote

Are you really going to claim the Bengals would have been better off hiring Whisenhunt or John Fox?

 

I made no such claim. But since Lewis got hired by the Bengals, Whisenhunt has been to the SB, then been fired, then re-hired and fired again. Fox, went to the SB the year Lewis was hired, then was fired, then hired by the Broncos, went to the SB, then fired, and has been hired again, and is probably about to be fired again. They both have more playoff wins than Lewis, obviously.

 

Meanwhile, over the course of 14 years, Lewis has been in charge of the Bengals, and they have zero playoff wins, and look worse now than they did a year ago. 

 

There is a clear double standard here. 

[jvan1973]

5 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

Put this team in the AFC North and put Lewis' Bengals in the AFC South.  Do you really think our Colts teams could compete with the Steelers and Ravens teams of years past?

 

You can make the case it is.  It's certainly not getting much better.

He has been to the playoffs 7 times.   He didn't play against the Steelers or ravens in all those games.  They lost to the Texans with TJ yates under center

[NewColtsFan]

43 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

They both suck so who cares. I was thinking the point of the article is Irsay will never fire Pagano just like Cincinnati won't fire Lewis. 

 

I don't know about or care about Cincy.....

 

But I care about the Colts and I can flat out guarantee that Irsay can and will fire Pagano.     Maybe not on your timeline,  but he will fire him.

 

Look,  Irsay was THIS CLOSE to firing Pagano a year ago.     He may be close to firing him now.     If we lose Sunday,  I wouldn't put it past him.     But if we win,  I think Pagano is safe.

 

But even then,  Pagano would be year to year.    His job would be on the line in 2017 and he could easily get fired a year from now.       

 

Irsay can and will fire Pagano someday if things don't get better soon..    The question is when and not if.

 

 

[#12.]

1 hour ago, #12. said:

Just now?

 

The Norv Charger teams were so much better than this team.  The '06 team the Pats thankfully knocked out for us was probably one of the best teams ever to not win a Super Bowl.

Correction:  '06 was Schottenheimer's last year.

[#12.]

51 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

He has been to the playoffs 7 times.   He didn't play against the Steelers or ravens in all those games.  They lost to the Texans with TJ yates under center

Hell, he lost to Chuck himself.

[jvan1973]

31 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I don't know about or care about Cincy.....

 

But I care about the Colts and I can flat out guarantee that Irsay can and will fire Pagano.     Maybe not on your timeline,  but he will fire him.

 

Look,  Irsay was THIS CLOSE to firing Pagano a year ago.     He may be close to firing him now.     If we lose Sunday,  I wouldn't put it past him.     But if we win,  I think Pagano is safe.

 

But even then,  Pagano would be year to year.    His job would be on the line in 2017 and he could easily get fired a year from now.       

 

Irsay can and will fire Pagano someday if things don't get better soon..    The question is when and not if.

 

 

As it is with most every coach 

[Superman]

31 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I don't know about or care about Cincy.....

 

But I care about the Colts and I can flat out guarantee that Irsay can and will fire Pagano.     Maybe not on your timeline,  but he will fire him.

 

Look,  Irsay was THIS CLOSE to firing Pagano a year ago.     He may be close to firing him now.     If we lose Sunday,  I wouldn't put it past him.     But if we win,  I think Pagano is safe.

 

But even then,  Pagano would be year to year.    His job would be on the line in 2017 and he could easily get fired a year from now.       

 

Irsay can and will fire Pagano someday if things don't get better soon..    The question is when and not if.

 

I have to laugh at some of this. People reach the conclusion that, because Irsay didn't fire Pagano after one bad season -- in which the QB missed 9 games, and they went 6-3 without him -- he'll never get rid of him. It's amazing to me.

 

Somehow, Irsay is being painted as a detached owner who doesn't care about winning, simply because he didn't fire his coach after one bad season (that wasn't even that bad). 

 

A year ago, people were accusing Irsay of being some impetuous and unpredictable owner who dared not to extend this same coach after an AFCCG appearance. 

 

I'm at a loss...

[21isSuperman]

49 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

He is the standard bearer for mediocrity, and he's been carrying that flag for 14 years. It's amazing that one can deride Pagano while defending Lewis.

 

 

I made no such claim. But since Lewis got hired by the Bengals, Whisenhunt has been to the SB, then been fired, then re-hired and fired again. Fox, went to the SB the year Lewis was hired, then was fired, then hired by the Broncos, went to the SB, then fired, and has been hired again, and is probably about to be fired again. They both have more playoff wins than Lewis, obviously.

 

Meanwhile, over the course of 14 years, Lewis has been in charge of the Bengals, and they have zero playoff wins, and look worse now than they did a year ago. 

 

There is a clear double standard here. 

 

You actually did make the suggestion...

Quote

If the Bengals had gotten rid of him anytime after his 6th year, in which they won 4 games, they could have hired Jon Harbaugh, Mike Tomlin, Whisenhunt, Pete Carroll, Jim Harbaugh, John Fox, Gary Kubiak -- all coaches who have at least been to the SB. 

 

You're suggesting the Bengals would have been better off with Whiz or Fox since those guys made the Super Bowl.  I think we would both agree Lewis is a better head coach than Whis and Fox, so to make that suggestion doesn't make sense.  Put Lewis on the 2013 Broncos and you'll get a few playoff wins too.  Fox was there for the ride while Peyton and the offense led the team.  And Whiz has been a bad head coach everywhere he's gone after Arizona.  Just because those guys have been in good situations - both of whom had Hall of Fame QBs take them to the Super Bowl - doesn't mean they're good coaches.

 

And if you want to claim that the Bengals look worse this year than they did last year, which is a fair claim, you'd certainly have to say the same about the Colts.  The 2015 Colts were 4-2 against their division, but the 2016 Colts are currently 2-3.  We went 8-8 last year without Luck for a significant portion of the year.  We can go 8-8 this year with Luck for all 16 games.

 

47 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

He has been to the playoffs 7 times.   He didn't play against the Steelers or ravens in all those games.  They lost to the Texans with TJ yates under center

Pagano's team lost to Brock Osweiler twice and Blake Bortles in the same year.  I'm not putting Lewis as the top coach in the league, but I definitely put him ahead of Pagano.

[Superman]

11 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

 

You actually did make the suggestion...

 

You're suggesting the Bengals would have been better off with Whiz or Fox since those guys made the Super Bowl.  I think we would both agree Lewis is a better head coach than Whis and Fox, so to make that suggestion doesn't make sense.  Put Lewis on the 2013 Broncos and you'll get a few playoff wins too.  Fox was there for the ride while Peyton and the offense led the team.  And Whiz has been a bad head coach everywhere he's gone after Arizona.  Just because those guys have been in good situations - both of whom had Hall of Fame QBs take them to the Super Bowl - doesn't mean they're good coaches.

 

No, I did not. I simply pointed out that the Bengals have kept zero wins Marvin for 14 years, while other teams have hired and fired coaches who have had far more playoff success. 

 

Quote

And if you want to claim that the Bengals look worse this year than they did last year, which is a fair claim, you'd certainly have to say the same about the Colts.  The 2015 Colts were 4-2 against their division, but the 2016 Colts are currently 2-3.  We went 8-8 last year without Luck for a significant portion of the year.  We can go 8-8 this year with Luck for all 16 games.

 

Fifteen games. 

 

Don't make the mistake of viewing my comments here as a defense of Pagano. They are only a condemnation of Lewis, who has had less success than Pagano, and who has been in his position three times longer than Pagano, whom you consider to be a lost cause. Yet, you defend Lewis... muy interesante...

 

Quote

Pagano's team lost to Brock Osweiler twice and Blake Bortles in the same year.  I'm not putting Lewis as the top coach in the league, but I definitely put him ahead of Pagano.

 

LOL, the Bengals have never lost games they should have won, right? With a better roster than the Colts, by the way. Like the Texans, last week... or the dysfunctional Bills... How many times did they lose to Brian Hoyer when he was with the Browns? Then they lost to Hoyer's Texans last year.

 

There's no defense for a coach with Marvin Lewis' resume, and there's no reason to be optimistic about his future.

[VaAllDay757]

2 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

You forget that Chad Johnson had some pretty awesome seasons in cincy,  as did Carson Palmer.    If we had a coach go 13 years without a single playoff win,  this place would go nuts.

Palmer is not that good he had one maybe 2 good seasons with the bengals other than that he was not that good they lost quite a few games because of him