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Defjamz26

Zachary Cunningham: I Don't See the Hype

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So far I'm 3 games in (vs Tennessee 2015, vs Missouri 2016, and Tennessee 2016) and I'm not impressed. This guys overruns everything and all I see is missed tackle after missed tackle. Or he whiffs on them really bad. Doesn't shed blocks and he makes a lot of wrong reads. I watched against Tennessee where he was so busy with a lineman the RB ran right past him.

 

Also He's one of the worst tacklers I've seen in terms of technique. He hits up high and sometimes he's around guy's neck. He doesn't wrap up but instead just tries to sling guys to the ground. I see the speed but it's no good if you can't finish. I'd really like @Dustin take on him because he doesn't look ready to me. He also has a super lean frame for an ILB and seriously lacks power. Looks like a 2nd round prospect to me. He should go back to school.

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Dude, I'm totally with you!  I've watched three games this year (Tenn., his bowl game, and one other), and I haven't seen anything impressive either.  In the two games I watched Reuben Foster and the two I watched Jarrad Davis I was extremely impressed.  I'm glad it's not just me, as scouting reports I've read almost seem to describe a different player than I was seeing.  He did seem to have some good closing burst, but he didn't jump off the tape in any way...

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I've yet to watch his tape since I'm still working in RB'S his think is supposed be that he can cover right? So how does he look in that area?

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6 minutes ago, twfish said:

I've yet to watch his tape since I'm still working in RB'S his think is supposed be that he can cover right? So how does he look in that area?

The thing Pagano has right is that your coverage skills won't ever matter if the other team doesn't have to pass.

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I'm not as high on him now as I was a couple days ago. I 100% agree about his tackling. Sometimes you have to watch the tape rather than just games. It's very strange how he tackles high. I haven't noticed his reads if they're accurate or not yet on tape, but I have noticed missed tackling and poor tackling. I think the combine may hurt him as well, and he'll fall in the draft to perhaps a late 1st round pick. Rapidly losing interest in him as a 1st rounder. 

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33 minutes ago, twfish said:

I've yet to watch his tape since I'm still working in RB'S his think is supposed be that he can cover right? So how does he look in that area?

The reason I started watching him in the first place because I saw on a website someone said he's a liability in coverage. And I thought that was strange because all anyone here had been saying was that he was the best coverage LB in this draft.

 

From what I've seen he doesn't have coverage skills. Didn't see him man to man at all but in zone coverage he struggled. A lot times the pass would go right to an area he was supposed to be covering. He looks lost in coverage tbh.

 

 The m currently working on LBs now, and the best coverage LB I've seen so far is Anthony Walker Jr from Northwestern. I still have to do Reuben Foster and Jarrad Davis though.

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I haven't watch many of the prospects at all yet really. I'll check him out and get back to you.

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34 minutes ago, twfish said:

I've yet to watch his tape since I'm still working in RB'S his think is supposed be that he can cover right? So how does he look in that area?

 

He was in coverage a bit, but I don't remember seeing him running 1-on-1 with a TE or anything.  I'm probably not qualified to judge his zone coverage, but I don't really remember seeing any catches in his area of responsibility or plays on the ball by him.  You bring up a good point, though - maybe that coverage ability of his won't jump out at you like TFLs or bone-rattling hits...

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2 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

The thing Pagano has right is that your coverage skills won't ever matter if the other team doesn't have to pass.

And your tackling skills won't matter if a team doesn't have too run..

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2 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

The reason I started watching him in the first place because I saw on a website someone said he's a liability in coverage. And I thought that was strange because all anyone here had been saying was that he was the best coverage LB in this draft.

 

From what I've seen he doesn't have coverage skills. Didn't see him man to man at all but in zone coverage he struggled. A lot times the pass would go right to an area he was supposed to be covering. He looks lost in coverage tbh.

 

 The m currently working on LBs now, and the best coverage LB I've seen so far is Anthony Walker Jr from Northwestern. I still have to do Reuben Foster and Jarrad Davis though.

 

Anthony Walker Jr and Jaylon Reeves Maybin are my 2 favorite ILBs based on where they could be had in the draft. Walker could be had with the Colts early 3 I believe and Maybin could be had late in the 4th based on rankings I'm seeing. Maybin has been asked to cover RBs and has held up well. He is fast and twitchy so he can occasionally blitz and he is a good sideline to sideline player. 

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32 minutes ago, twfish said:

And your tackling skills won't matter if a team doesn't have too run..

C'mon now....think about the Lions game to start the season.  If a LB can't handle that scenario, it won't matter if you can cover down the field, unless you're just a man cover nickel backer....which wouldn't be a first or second round pick.

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4 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

 

Anthony Walker Jr and Jaylon Reeves Maybin are my 2 favorite ILBs based on where they could be had in the draft. Walker could be had with the Colts early 3 I believe and Maybin could be had late in the 4th based on rankings I'm seeing. Maybin has been asked to cover RBs and has held up well. He is fast and twitchy so he can occasionally blitz and he is a good sideline to sideline player. 

I watched Maybin play a game or two this season and he's another guy I like. I'm putting him on my list of LBs to watch as well. But so far Walker is my favorite overall until I get through the rest of the LBs. Cunningham I said my least favorite.

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26 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

C'mon now....think about the Lions game to start the season.  If a LB can't handle that scenario, it won't matter if you can cover down the field, unless you're just a man cover nickel backer....which wouldn't be a first or second round pick.

That was supposed to be more of a touche moment.. I agree if we take a ilb in the first or second he needs too be able too tackle AND cover. We have a thumper in Morrison to take over Jackson's role. 

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I have to agree. He's decent but he's not a top 15 player by my eye. I'll have to do some more work on him at some point. 

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I watched him vs Georgia and I thought he was very impressive. I later caught some other games and he didn't pop as much. I don't know if there is tape of that game. You seem to be right though... a lot of his tackles are really high and he misses on them. I still like Reuben Foster the best out of this year's inside LBs class.

 

edit: here it is. I will watch some other ones, but here's one where he showed his best if you want to see it(the stop on the last play 4th and 1 was insane):

 

 

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He sounds a lot like Jaylon Smith to me. Which is funny because everyone on here loved Smith. 

 

I haven't scouted him but in the Vandy games I've seen he was constantly making plays and was all over the field. 

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2 minutes ago, SP_21 said:

He sounds a lot like Jaylon Smith to me. Which is funny because everyone on here loved Smith. 

 

I haven't scouted him but in the Vandy games I've seen he was constantly making plays and was all over the field. 

I was definitely not a big fan of Smith I did not like the way he tackled at all he really had hesitation going into tackle but he was a measurables kinda guy and tackling is something as a gm you hope your coaches can teach but I'd much rather draft someone more complete in the first.

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6 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

So far I'm 3 games in (vs Tennessee 2015, vs Missouri 2016, and Tennessee 2016) and I'm not impressed. This guys overruns everything and all I see is missed tackle after missed tackle. Or he whiffs on them really bad. Doesn't shed blocks and he makes a lot of wrong reads. I watched against Tennessee where he was so busy with a lineman the RB ran right past him.

 

Also He's one of the worst tacklers I've seen in terms of technique. He hits up high and sometimes he's around guy's neck. He doesn't wrap up but instead just tries to sling guys to the ground. I see the speed but it's no good if you can't finish. I'd really like @Dustin take on him because he doesn't look ready to me. He also has a super lean frame for an ILB and seriously lacks power. Looks like a 2nd round prospect to me. He should go back to school.

Don't take this as criticism and I haven't even looked at Cunningham yet film wise, but just looking over his measurables at 6'4" and 230lb I'm sure people are looking at Upside.  Weren't you speaking to all of us about Upside in last years draft when it came to Leonard Floyd.  That same guy who put out a bunch of bad tape along with a number of impressive plays at the same time and overall bad stats?  You don't see the upside with this one?  Again I haven't looked over the film I'm just asking the question as I skim over the prospect.

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Dude looks skinny to me for an NFL ILB.  Maybe its just the uniform, but the Georgia RB looks more like a ILB than he does.

 

He moves well and changes direction well.  I'm thinking NFL OLB pass rusher, but I'm no professional scout.

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He is an arm tackler and that won't work in the NFL. Love his sideline to sideline speed but if OL gets ahold of him he's out.

Davis (Florida) & Foster (bama) are far better suited for NFL.

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1 hour ago, krunk said:

Don't take this as criticism and I haven't even looked at Cunningham yet film wise, but just looking over his measurables at 6'4" and 230lb I'm sure people are looking at Upside.  Weren't you speaking to all of us about Upside in last years draft when it came to Leonard Floyd.  That same guy who put out a bunch of bad tape along with a number of impressive plays at the same time and overall bad stats?  You don't see the upside with this one?  Again I haven't looked over the film I'm just asking the question as I skim over the prospect.

Yeah I was a big Floyd fan. But no one really overrated Floyd and he's doing fine in the NFL. Cunningham is extremely overrated based on his tape. Even looking at upside he's in no way a top 20 pick. But Floyd also was usually a factor every play. Cunningham makes 1 decent play a game. I'm not saying I don't see the upside but he's super raw and does not deserve his hype. 2nd round pick at best.

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16 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Yeah I was a big Floyd fan. But no one really overrated Floyd and he's doing fine in the NFL. Cunningham is extremely overrated based on his tape. Even looking at upside he's in no way a top 20 pick. But Floyd also was usually a factor every play. Cunningham makes 1 decent play a game. I'm not saying I don't see the upside but he's super raw and does not deserve his hype. 2nd round pick at best.

Cunningham makes way more plays then Floyd ever did. He's the leader of Vandys defense and had 125 tackles and 16.5 tackles for a loss this season. 

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10 minutes ago, SP_21 said:

Cunningham makes way more plays then Floyd ever did. He's the leader of Vandys defense and had 125 tackles and 16.5 tackles for a loss this season. 

He doesn't want to admit it

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47 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Yeah I was a big Floyd fan. But no one really overrated Floyd and he's doing fine in the NFL. Cunningham is extremely overrated based on his tape. Even looking at upside he's in no way a top 20 pick. But Floyd also was usually a factor every play. Cunningham makes 1 decent play a game. I'm not saying I don't see the upside but he's super raw and does not deserve his hype. 2nd round pick at best.

  A lot of people viewed him as way overated.

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31 minutes ago, SP_21 said:

Cunningham makes way more plays then Floyd ever did. He's the leader of Vandys defense and had 125 tackles and 16.5 tackles for a loss this season. 

Tackles are the most misleading stats there are. Watch the film and you'll see a poor tackler who is tackling guys way after they've gone for big gains. He's might be just as raw, if not more raw than Floyd though.

 

Tbh I shouldn't have compared them based on production though. They play different positions so it'd be unfair to compare them. One was an edge rusher who got moved around a lot and another is an ILB who is pretty much always in that position. JJ Watt might get 16 sacks and 10 TFLs while Keuchly gets 115 tackles, 2 INTs, 4 sacks, and 8 TFLs. You couldn't really say who made more plays because what's expected of them at their respective position varies. Same with Floyd and Cunningham so I'll retract my earlier statement. Instead I'll say they're both raw but Floyd looked more Pro-ready than Cunningham does now. 

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9 minutes ago, krunk said:

  A lot of people viewed him as way overated.

By people on this board but most analysts had him going right around where he went. But his flaws were well documented and people brought it up frequently.

 

Cunningham is overrated by the media and fans IMO. And you rarely hear anything bad about him. Perhaps that'll change around the combine when people really start to look at him.

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So far for me the one I like is Jarrad Davis from Florida.  Seems to bring the wood like I like, sound tackler and athletic.  Maybe my mind might change but as of right now I like Jarrad Davis.  Think he'd be perfect next to Edwin Jackson or Morrison.  Whatever the lineup is I wouldn't mind this kid on the team at all.

 

The other guy I like from small glances is Raekwon Mcmillan.  He's got a lot of the similar type of traits as Jarrad Davis. I'd be cool with picking up either one of them but I prefer Davis by a little bit. 

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11 hours ago, krunk said:

So far for me the one I like is Jarrad Davis from Florida.  Seems to bring the wood like I like, sound tackler and athletic.  Maybe my mind might change but as of right now I like Jarrad Davis.  Think he'd be perfect next to Edwin Jackson or Morrison.  Whatever the lineup is I wouldn't mind this kid on the team at all.

 

The other guy I like from small glances is Raekwon Mcmillan.  He's got a lot of the similar type of traits as Jarrad Davis. I'd be cool with picking up either one of them but I prefer Davis by a little bit. 

 

What I love about Davis is that he's got top-tier leadership qualities.  All the fiery leadership we've gotten from D'Qwell (who is for all intents and purposes done with the Colts IMO), we'd pick right back up with Davis.  He'd be calling the defensive plays and be the emotional leader of the D from Day 1...

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Glad others are seeing it too. I'm not a big fan of taking ILB's in the first round unless they really impress or appear to have elite potential, but Cunningham does not impress much at all. :/

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7 hours ago, funktacious2 said:

Glad others are seeing it too. I'm not a big fan of taking ILB's in the first round unless they really impress or appear to have elite potential, but Cunningham does not impress much at all. :/

Yup. All I see is an athletic guy with a thin frame.

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To be honest I don't give a damn what linebacker we take as long as he can cover! If we draft another run stuffer that blows in coverage then I'll be *.

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What's the seriousness of the shoulder injuries to Jalen Reeves Maybin? Guy was pretty good in coverage and had good instincts last year but was injured this year. Could be had later and could be a great get if his injuries aren't to serious.

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I watched some tape on him last night.  He's got some talent and I like the passion he plays with.  To me he's some where around 3rd round or lower I think.  Could change my mind.

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1 hour ago, krunk said:

I watched some tape on him last night.  He's got some talent and I like the passion he plays with.  To me he's some where around 3rd round or lower I think.  Could change my mind.

Who? Maybin?

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1 hour ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

What's the seriousness of the shoulder injuries to Jalen Reeves Maybin? Guy was pretty good in coverage and had good instincts last year but was injured this year. Could be had later and could be a great get if his injuries aren't to serious.

yes

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1 minute ago, krunk said:

yes

Thought so I really am liking him some say he is undersized but at 6'1 225 if he put some weight on he will be fine. Love that he could be had later too. Dude literally had stats close to the top linebackers this year when he was healthy last year.

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1 hour ago, krunk said:

I watched some tape on him last night.  He's got some talent and I like the passion he plays with.  To me he's some where around 3rd round or lower I think.  Could change my mind.

We waited until the end of 2016 to finally agree on something.

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Cunningham is no R. Foster, for sure... He is still going to be a good pro, imo.

 

Jaylon Smith was an absolute Phenomenon before his injury... better than any of the guys from this class, imo... although I'd put Foster in a category all his own. He's definitely the must compete ILB coming out this year, by a wide margin. 

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31 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

We waited until the end of 2016 to finally agree on something.

we never agree during the season. During the draft we get along okay. During the season I hate you! LOL. Is what it is

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47 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Thought so I really am liking him some say he is undersized but at 6'1 225 if he put some weight on he will be fine. Love that he could be had later too. Dude literally had stats close to the top linebackers this year when he was healthy last year.

My only issue is he reminds me of Geathers. May not be needed if the convert Geathers into a full time backer. We will see. Who knows but Maybin can play.

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