Throwing #18 Under The Bus

[Jaric]

... that doesn't make any sense

Simply being cleared to throw the ball is not the same as being cleared to throw the ball in an NFL game.

If Manning had been cleared to play in games, we wouldn't be having this discussion because the discussion revolves around Manning's ability to be healthy enough to play in a game.

[Jaric]

People seem to forget that it was conveniently swept under a rug that Manning would have got clearance to play in the last two games of the season. He went through the full practice script for a starting QB.

Link?

[hawkeyes]

I gotta say I am a little disappointed at how many people are so willing to just toss Peyton aside after all he did for this Franchise, Indianapolis, Indiana, and all of us Colts fans. I know the season sucked, i know there is no guarentee that he will be healthy. But i am almost sickened by people's readiness to just drop him off and walk away like he was on the practice squad.

This is a business and I've said it before what have you done for me lately is relevant whether you like it or not. The facts are Peyton even if healthy would only have a few more years left in his career so looking for an eventual replacement is not out of the question. On top of that once you have to consider that he hasn't taken a snap in over a year and there is no way of knowing right now if he ever will again. Turning your disappointment around - how is it that some people still want to hang onto him?

IF he were 100% and ready to go I have no doubt he would be a Colt for life, but based on recent history it doesn't appear he is 100% and might never be - does the team have to take that chance? Seriously, is one player really bigger than the entire organization? Before I give the obvious answer I will preface it with I am a HUGE Manning fan, but know the answer to that is no way, no how!

[a06cc]

I don't think anyone is throwing him under the bus. People are just giving up on him. I for one will not do anything of the such. Peyton is the Colts and needs to finish out his career here. Gave his neck for 3 years until needing to have the problem corrected. That says something about someone willing to do that for your organization. You keep someone like that period! Coach or something, Peyton needs to stick around here. However I'm thinking with my heart here. I think he'll play again. I'm praying for you Peyton!

[JoKeR]

[amff]

No one is kicking him to the curb or not wanting him to be here just for kicks. Some of us look at the situation logically and have come to the conclusion that based on his current situation, it would make more sense for the Colts to part ways. Some of us are Colts fans. Not just Peyton Manning fans. I want this team to be good for as long as possible.

Now if you have logical reasons as to why Manning should stay such as based on his salary, health, or other factors I'd love to hear it. Because the reasons I keep hearing we should keep Manning is because it's Peyton Manning. He is an immortal football messiah that is exempt to logic. WE MUST KEEP HIM BECAUSE IT'S PEYTON MANNING. Sorry folks there's 50 something other Colts players too.

I understand that their are other players. Well, other good players, a few decent ones an the few Chris polian picked. Is anyone on this forum #18's trainer? Anyone here have hard proof that he can't play again? Is anyone here in the Fo in the accounting dept.? One person that likes your post doesnt surprise me. I just don't think that it is in the best interest of the club to justpart ways if he is healthy. You get what u pay for. i.e. Curtis Painter. Now correct me if i am wrong but i take it you are implying that i am just a "Peyton Manning fan", well I am a "Colts fan" have been since i can remember. My family is season ticket holders and have been since before Manning. I'm just putting my opinion out there. Just seems like everytime I tr to voice my opinion on tis situation, someone proceedes to tell me how wrong I am and i get all kinds garbage over it. See it how you want. I think for all he has done for this club the least we can do is give this a shot.

[UndecidedFrog]

Around Week 15 Manning was practicing in pads and lobbying to play in the last two games of the season. Players were starting to talk about how he was looking, someone said he was "throwing with good velocity" and it was said that Manning went through the same script that Orlovsky went through. Then boom out came the hammer (Polian/Irsay) and shut down everything and since then Manning's health has been back in question.

I think even if Manning is 100% ready to go March 8th that Irsay might still want Luck and to release Manning. I think Irsay may be trying to leverage things so that public opinion of him is high no matter what happens with Peyton. I hope I am wrong and Peyton is giving at least one more season to prove himself.

1) If the Colts' team doctors cleared him to play in an NFL game, he is cleared medically to play.

Colts management (Polian/Irsay) do not have a say in that.

From everything I have read, I have not come across anything that says that Peyton was medically cleared to play in an NFL game post surgery.

2) If he was medically cleared to play in NFL games, the coaching staff will determine if he has adequate speed/velocity/distance in his throws to warrant starting. Players can provide all the opinions they want. From everything I have read, he did not start any games this past season.

I am more interested in what the team doctors and the coaching staff have to say. Those are the opinions that matter.

3) If Peyton was throwing in Week 15 like he was throwing pre-injury, why do you think he can't throw now to convince Irsay to pay the $28MM option bonus in March?

[amff]

I remember multipul pro luck threads as well. Whats your point?

Nice

[amff]

This is a business and I've said it before what have you done for me lately is relevant whether you like it or not. The facts are Peyton even if healthy would only have a few more years left in his career so looking for an eventual replacement is not out of the question. On top of that once you have to consider that he hasn't taken a snap in over a year and there is no way of knowing right now if he ever will again. Turning your disappointment around - how is it that some people still want to hang onto him?

IF he were 100% and ready to go I have no doubt he would be a Colt for life, but based on recent history it doesn't appear he is 100% and might never be - does the team have to take that chance? Seriously, is one player really bigger than the entire organization? Before I give the obvious answer I will preface it with I am a HUGE Manning fan, but know the answer to that is no way, no how!

No he isn't bigger than the organization, but he has BEEN the organization for the past 13 yrs. What other player in the NFL could cover up for their teams defense, especially when he isn't even on defense? I'm just saying that if he is healthy, it seems like so many people will still want him to go because of his salary. This whole" Let him go to a team to win a SB ring or two" thing could be us. If he is healthy and a new cast to surround him could be OUR two rings.

[amff]

It's a pretty simple concept, noone is throwing Manning under the bus. I think if he's healthy, it's logical to keep him. If he's not 100%, then you don't. He's owed to much $ not to be 100% & the Colts have a chance to pick up a possible stud in Andrew Luck as well. Manning is my favorite player ever and yes it would be hard seeing him on another team, but I feel the organization will do what is in it's best interest whether Manning is still around or not.

Seems like some Manning fans want him to stay on the team even if he will miss another season for crying out loud, thus immensely handicapping the team. If people are more Manning fans than Colts fans anyways, why would you NOT want him to go to another team and possibly win the SB, opposed to stay on a team that seems to be in transition??? Why?? Maybe because they are slightly Colts fans???

Slighly Colts fans? I don't think you got me here. Im talkin about te people who wanna do this simply for sap room. If he can't play again, then fine let him retire. If he is 75% then he is still better than 28 starting QB's in the NFL. What if Luck flops? Then People will be " Oh no! How could we let Manning walk? That was so stupid of Irsay." So in response to your "slightly Colts fans" comment, I am a Colts fan, a Manning Fan, and a Loyalty fan. How many people here weren't fans till Manning took a losing organization and turned it into a dynasty? Wouldn't that make them band wagon fans?

[Smitto]

Simply being cleared to throw the ball is not the same as being cleared to throw the ball in an NFL game.

If Manning had been cleared to play in games, we wouldn't be having this discussion because the discussion revolves around Manning's ability to be healthy enough to play in a game.

Doesnt make sense to think about clearing someone for practice who isnt cleared to throw in an NFL game... i wouldnt be too surprised if something went wrong AGAIN with his neck, that probably isnt the case but you never know.

[GoColts8818]

Doesnt make sense to think about clearing someone for practice who isnt cleared to throw in an NFL game... i wouldnt be too surprised if something went wrong AGAIN with his neck, that probably isnt the case but you never know.

He wasn't cleared to practice. He was cleared to ramp up his rehab. In fact the stories at the time made sure it was know he was NOT cleared to practice.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/14/peyton-manning-still-not-cleared-to-practice/

[UndecidedFrog]

He wasn't cleared to practice. He was cleared to ramp up his rehab. In fact the stories at the time made sure it was know he was NOT cleared to practice.

http://profootballta...ed-to-practice/

Thank you for this. It clarifies my previous post.

If Peyton was not cleared to practice, I doubt he was cleared to play in an NFL game, as some other poster claimed that he "would have" obtained, if not for some management conspiracy.

[Smitto]

He wasn't cleared to practice. He was cleared to ramp up his rehab. In fact the stories at the time made sure it was know he was NOT cleared to practice.

http://profootballta...ed-to-practice/

Never said he was cleared i said it wouldnt make sense to think of clearing someone for practice if he cant be cleared for a game.. looking back at the articles and the one you posted only shows that peyton WILL retire.. i mean after all this time he probably still hasnt made any progress cause im sure irasy or someone one would have said something or leaked it.

[smittywerb]

Well that would suck but would be pretty bad ramifications if Luck got hurt after we drafted him too.

Well, at least he won't cost $28 million.

Personally I am sickened by the way the man is being treated. All of this hype surrounding some rookie is just ridiculous especially when there is a real proven megastar NFL quarterback on the roster rather than the latest media mirage.

Is Peyton Manning's neck proven right now? If we were certain about Manning, we wouldn't have half of the recent threads going on.

I mean seriously, all of the people that are claiming we have "thrown manning under the bus", would you throw $28 million at something that is not certain? Would throw money at a house if you weren't sure it could survive a hurricane and you lived in Florida?

[WSO]

I understand that their are other players. Well, other good players, a few decent ones an the few Chris polian picked. Is anyone on this forum #18's trainer? Anyone here have hard proof that he can't play again? Is anyone here in the Fo in the accounting dept.? One person that likes your post doesnt surprise me. I just don't think that it is in the best interest of the club to justpart ways if he is healthy. You get what u pay for. i.e. Curtis Painter. Now correct me if i am wrong but i take it you are implying that i am just a "Peyton Manning fan", well I am a "Colts fan" have been since i can remember. My family is season ticket holders and have been since before Manning. I'm just putting my opinion out there. Just seems like everytime I tr to voice my opinion on tis situation, someone proceedes to tell me how wrong I am and i get all kinds garbage over it. See it how you want. I think for all he has done for this club the least we can do is give this a shot.

I never said you were a Peyton Manning fan, i'm just stating there are some obvious Manning-first fans on the board and I'm sure whenever Manning decides to leave, the bandwagon will be much lighter. Also Irsay has made it clear he is taking a quarterback with the #1 pick so healthy manning or not there will be a top prospect waiting to start. Obviously everyone wants a healthy Manning back under center, but at what cost? Logically it doesn't make sense to spend $35million on a quarterback who hasn't played in a long time coming off 3 neck surgeries who still isn't healthy right now. Even if Manning is cleared by the 8th, no one knows how he will play post surgery until the 1st game of the season. Too many are proclaiming that just because Manning had a surgery done, he will be back better or more healthy. That is a leap of faith.

[WSO]

People forget all too often that the NFL is a business. Even the best quarterbacks eventually part ways with teams. It happens in all sports. Irsay is not going to make a poor decision that will affect the franchise for years to come. He will do whats best for the franchise long term. Not short term (see Raiders).

[19colt]

Thank you for this. It clarifies my previous post.

If Peyton was not cleared to practice, I doubt he was cleared to play in an NFL game, as some other poster claimed that he "would have" obtained, if not for some management conspiracy.

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2011/12/18/2644453/another-report-says-peyton-manning-was-in-pads-last-week-throwing-to

[Peyton and Eli fan]

I never said you were a Peyton Manning fan, i'm just stating there are some obvious Manning-first fans on the board and I'm sure whenever Manning decides to leave, the bandwagon will be much lighter. Also Irsay has made it clear he is taking a quarterback with the #1 pick so healthy manning or not there will be a top prospect waiting to start. Obviously everyone wants a healthy Manning back under center, but at what cost? Logically it doesn't make sense to spend $35million on a quarterback who hasn't played in a long time coming off 3 neck surgeries who still isn't healthy right now. Even if Manning is cleared by the 8th, no one knows how he will play post surgery until the 1st game of the season. Too many are proclaiming that just because Manning had a surgery done, he will be back better or more healthy. That is a leap of faith.

But, it will be interesting to see how many teams are willing to take a leap of faith if he is released and doesn't retire. (and yes, I realize it wouldn't be $28 million, but it would still be a chance)

[UndecidedFrog]

http://www.stampedeb...eek-throwing-to

Thank you for the article, which clarifies that Peyton was throwing in pads to WRs after practice, as part of his ramped-up rehab.

This confirms my suspicion that Peyton was not cleared to practice, and not cleared to play.

This also makes me question if Peyton "would have" obtained such necessary clearance, if he did not demonstrate capability.

[UndecidedFrog]

But, it will be interesting to see how many teams are willing to take a leap of faith if he is released and doesn't retire. (and yes, I realize it wouldn't be $28 million, but it would still be a chance)

Yes, I would be interested in that too, In addition, I would be interested if Peyton could then pass their medical clearance.

[Malakai432]

Slighly Colts fans? I don't think you got me here. Im talkin about te people who wanna do this simply for sap room. If he can't play again, then fine let him retire. If he is 75% then he is still better than 28 starting QB's in the NFL. What if Luck flops? Then People will be " Oh no! How could we let Manning walk? That was so stupid of Irsay." So in response to your "slightly Colts fans" comment, I am a Colts fan, a Manning Fan, and a Loyalty fan. How many people here weren't fans till Manning took a losing organization and turned it into a dynasty? Wouldn't that make them band wagon fans?

If your a true Colts fan then the comment wasn't referring to you, many people simply seem to be only Manning fans. However, your comment seems to state that if Manning is only at 75%, then we should pay him all the money that's due on his contract and let him play even if unhealthy. If Manning is only 75% then one could also assume a very violent hit could possibly seriously disable Manning for the rest of his life. Why would you want an unhealthy Manning to even step foot on this team, especially if your a Manning fan?? The NFL is not a kind sport and regardless of his health, he will have brutal NFL defenders pursing him on a weekly basis, trying to hurt him, trying to knock him out of the game, hence if Manning isn't 100% you would NOT want him in the game. If any reminents of this neck injury still exist, you do NOT want Manning playing otherwise he could risk sever injury. That is not something any of us want, even if it would mean another playoff appearance.

Hence Manning plays only if he's 100% and cleared to play, nothing else.

[GoColts8818]

Never said he was cleared i said it wouldnt make sense to think of clearing someone for practice if he cant be cleared for a game.. looking back at the articles and the one you posted only shows that peyton WILL retire.. i mean after all this time he probably still hasnt made any progress cause im sure irasy or someone one would have said something or leaked it.

I was just putting it out there what his status was because there seems to be major confusion about his status right now and some people didn't seem to understand that just because he was cleared to throw doesn't mean he was cleared to practice.

[Malakai432]

I was just putting it out there what his status was because there seems to be major confusion about his status right now and some people didn't seem to understand that just because he was cleared to throw doesn't mean he was cleared to practice.

I'm really confused about the whole status thing for instance what if he's cleared to practice but not cleared for full on contact or in gameday shape by March? It seems like the March deadline seems to be a major issue. For example he could be 100% healthy by gameday for the 2012 season, but not cleared to play by March. The whole thing boggles me.

[WSO]

But, it will be interesting to see how many teams are willing to take a leap of faith if he is released and doesn't retire. (and yes, I realize it wouldn't be $28 million, but it would still be a chance)

I agree, if Mannings cap hit was much lower, I'd want the Colts to keep him even being a risky decision.

[ruksak]

He does not want to retire, he wants to be the colts QB. How about we let him do that....

I'm willing to let him try. Just because he was the best to ever play...... He did miss a whole year and probably can't hit the broad side of a barn but we can give the kid a try.

[number28]

I gotta say I am a little disappointed at how many people are so willing to just toss Peyton aside after all he did for this Franchise, Indianapolis, Indiana, and all of us Colts fans. I know the season sucked, i know there is no guarentee that he will be healthy. But i am almost sickened by people's readiness to just drop him off and walk away like he was on the practice squad.

yep, these are our fans. very sad indeed.

[number28]

I'm willing to let him try. Just because he was the best to ever play...... He did miss a whole year and probably can't hit the broad side of a barn but we can give the kid a try.

here is an example of one

[jskinnz]

People seem to forget that it was conveniently swept under a rug that Manning would have got clearance to play in the last two games of the season. He went through the full practice script for a starting QB.

That is categorically wrong.

[Jaric]

http://www.stampedeb...eek-throwing-to

Did you read that link?

Last week, we reported on some credible rumors that Peyton Manning was back in pads and throwing balls to wide receivers. This wasn't done during practice, but was rather part of his ramped up rehab. Later in the week, Colts wide receiver Austin Collie said those rumors weren't true.

[Jaric]

I'm really confused about the whole status thing for instance what if he's cleared to practice but not cleared for full on contact or in gameday shape by March? It seems like the March deadline seems to be a major issue. For example he could be 100% healthy by gameday for the 2012 season, but not cleared to play by March. The whole thing boggles me.

The reason the March deadline is important is because of the way Peyton's contract is structured.

The short version is that if we cut him before the deadline, the cap hit is something like 10 million.

However, if we do not cut him before that date, and have to cut him later (if the neck doesn't get better for example) then all his bonuses and what nots get fast forwarded and we end up having aprox 40 million dollars in dead cap space (aprox a third of the salary cap)

Or we keep him on the roster and have like 28 million in effectively dead cap space again (as it's money on the cap for a player that isn't playing) and try again next season (with potentially the same result if he still can't go)

The important thing to remember is that the march deadline gives us an effective out of his contract with comparably minimal impact to our cap. However, once we get past that date, we're on the hook for the entire contract. Which if he's healthy and slinging the Manning we all know and love isn't an issue. But if he isn't...

[ruksak]

here is an example of one

Sorry. Was being sarcastic. I should've said I was j/k

[Kyle]

I'm willing to let him try. Just because he was the best to ever play...... He did miss a whole year and probably can't hit the broad side of a barn but we can give the kid a try.

lol i think most people could tell u were being sarcastic

[The Fish]

here is an example of one

No, that would be me not ruksac.

Count me in the crowd that thinks that Manning coming back is along shot and it's a good thing we got " lucky".

[OZZ]

I love #18 and all he's done for "The Horseshoe" and the city.

I'm sorry he got hurt, but it is what it is.

Gotta look to the future and that future is Luck.

I don't want the team to be handicapped but an ungodly salary cap # from a huge question mark while trying to find other young players to help us rebuild.

Honestly, it's got to be better for Peyton in the long run as he can go to a team that is ready to win Now. Colts are rebuilding. Gonna take a few years.

I'm all for immediately building Pmoney a statue outside LOS and retiring #18 right away. Throw him the biggest thank you party ever!

[UndecidedFrog]

I love #18 and all he's done for "The Horseshoe" and the city.

I'm sorry he got hurt, but it is what it is.

Gotta look to the future and that future is Luck.

I don't want the team to be handicapped but an ungodly salary cap # from a huge question mark while trying to find other young players to help us rebuild.

Honestly, it's got to be better for Peyton in the long run as he can go to a team that is ready to win Now. Colts are rebuilding. Gonna take a few years.

I'm all for immediately building Pmoney a statue outside LOS and retiring #18 right away. Throw him the biggest thank you party ever!

Nice beard. Do you work for the Colts?

BTW, I agree with what you have said above.

[OZZ]

Nice beard. Do you work for the Colts?

Was thinking of putting an application in after seeing the beard thread.