Le'Raven Clark Update

[Gavin]

47 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

No that's fine, you're absolutely entitled to your opinion. You get a lot of grief because you hold your guns, but that's to be commended.

 

All I'm saying is that Clark wasn't a Day 3 prospect just because you say he was. If you had said that you felt he was a Day 3 prospect I wouldn't have said anything. But general consensus had him as a Day 2 pick, and that's where he went. 

 

Also, to a certain extent, even these "media scouts" are still media. Their opinions are partly informed by what they hear from NFL personnel guys -- team scouts, GMs, coaches, etc. So when McShay or Mayock does a big board, it's at least somewhat influenced by what they're hearing, not just their own evaluations. They don't always get it right, and things change, but in general, if all the main guys are calling a player a top 50 prospect, I'm assuming they're hearing some of the same things.

 

Going back to Jaylon Smith, if I were the Colts GM, I wouldn't have drafted him before the third round. I'm pessimistic about his knee injury, and I had him about 20 spots lower than everyone else did based on the film anyways. So I could say Jaylon Smith was a Day 2 guy -- to me. That doesn't mean he was actually a Day 2 guy, and I wouldn't claim that he was.

Oh I didn't mean to imply he was a day 3 prospect just because I said he was. I just saw him as 4th round O Lineman based on what I saw, What I read and his production. Agreed on Jaylon Smith

[NewColtsFan]

7 hours ago, Superman said:

 

No that's fine, you're absolutely entitled to your opinion. You get a lot of grief because you hold your guns, but that's to be commended.

 

All I'm saying is that Clark wasn't a Day 3 prospect just because you say he was. If you had said that you felt he was a Day 3 prospect I wouldn't have said anything. But general consensus had him as a Day 2 pick, and that's where he went. 

 

Also, to a certain extent, even these "media scouts" are still media. Their opinions are partly informed by what they hear from NFL personnel guys -- team scouts, GMs, coaches, etc. So when McShay or Mayock does a big board, it's at least somewhat influenced by what they're hearing, not just their own evaluations. They don't always get it right, and things change, but in general, if all the main guys are calling a player a top 50 prospect, I'm assuming they're hearing some of the same things.

 

Going back to Jaylon Smith, if I were the Colts GM, I wouldn't have drafted him before the third round. I'm pessimistic about his knee injury, and I had him about 20 spots lower than everyone else did based on the film anyways. So I could say Jaylon Smith was a Day 2 guy -- to me. That doesn't mean he was actually a Day 2 guy, and I wouldn't claim that he was.

 

On ESPN,  Clark was a Day 2 pick with Kiper and McShay.

 

On NFL.com   Clark was a Day 2 pick with ALL of their evaluators.    And they've got 3 or 4.

 

On CBS Sports.com     Clark was a Day 2 pick. 

 

And I don't know why you comment that Kiper and McShay made Clark a Day 2 pick simply on measurable figures when you know that (A)  they both watch a ton of tape and (B)  you note that they both have NFL contacts.   Well, guess what,  you know who also likes players with great measurable numbers?     NFL Scouts and GM's do too. 

 

Here's an observation and I don't think you'll disagree with this.    You want players who have clearly demonstrated it on tape.     You don't want your team or GM to reach for a guy who has yet to show enough on tape, but has great numbers by the tape measure.      Fair assessment of you?

 

OK....   the problem with that is that there are not 32 guys with 1st round tape,  or 32 guys with 2nd round tape, or 32 guys with 3rd round tape.    At some point,  scouts have to project.     Can this player who runs fast and jumps high and has long arms and big hands perform at a higher level if he can devote his life to the NFL and not be distracted by college and he gets NFL quality coaching?     So, a guy like Clark gets a higher grade than you would give him because an OL coach like Philbin says I can turn this clay into a great piece of art.   I can turn this diamond in the rough into a beautiful polished gem.      That's why some of these scouts and front office people are very, very good at their job.     No one bats a thousand,  but the guys who do it well enough find guys like Clark and hopefully turn them into very good players.

 

Sorry this was such a long post.     I wanted to address all the issues here.

 

[Dustin]

Grigson is such a terrible GM lol

[jskinnz]

15 hours ago, Superman said:

One more thing, I've been a little snippy on this subject, but I figured I'd share my actual thoughts.

 

I'm fine with where we drafted Clark. He's projected to be a starting tackle -- probably RT, IMO -- within a year or so. That's a good grab for a third rounder. The Colts were expecting Reitz to be a solid starter this year, then his position would be up for grabs moving forward. As it turns out, Reitz hasn't been that good this year, but that doesn't mean you throw Clark in hurriedly.

 

Truth on Clark is that he needs a year to refine his technique, and probably to get stronger. With coaching, he'll be capable of starting at RT. He has some simple technical issues that he needs to work on. No sense in putting him out there before he gets them ironed out. I said after he was drafted that we shouldn't expect to see him in 2016.

 

And that's fine because drafted players are expected to help the team for several years, not just as a rookie. As a matter of fact, their expectations are the lowest in their rookie year. So any player who doesn't contribute much as a rookie should be graded in accordance with what the team's expectations were when he was drafted. And it's easy to see -- based on the Colts comments when Clark was drafted, and base don pre-draft observations -- that he was expected to basically redshirt in 2016, then compete for a starting spot moving forward.

 

Patience is the key, no matter what you think of the Colts roster at present. 

 

Per usual a very measured and completely reasonable post.

 

I think the fact that there will be football played in 2017, 2018 and beyond is lost on many people.  An NFL team is not just drafting for the current year, even a team with the amount of holes that the Colts have.  What I can't comprehend are those in this thread who think that if Clark becomes a full time contributor next year is still somehow this is a wasted pick.  Complete nonsense.

 

 

[chad72]

8 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

On ESPN,  Clark was a Day 2 pick with Kiper and McShay.

 

On NFL.com   Clark was a Day 2 pick with ALL of their evaluators.    And they've got 3 or 4.

 

On CBS Sports.com     Clark was a Day 2 pick. 

 

And I don't know why you comment that Kiper and McShay made Clark a Day 2 pick simply on measurable figures when you know that (A)  they both watch a ton of tape and (B)  you note that they both have NFL contacts.   Well, guess what,  you know who also likes players with great measurable numbers?     NFL Scouts and GM's do too. 

 

Here's an observation and I don't think you'll disagree with this.    You want players who have clearly demonstrated it on tape.     You don't want your team or GM to reach for a guy who has yet to show enough on tape, but has great numbers by the tape measure.      Fair assessment of you?

 

OK....   the problem with that is that there are not 32 guys with 1st round tape,  or 32 guys with 2nd round tape, or 32 guys with 3rd round tape.    At some point,  scouts have to project.     Can this player who runs fast and jumps high and has long arms and big hands perform at a higher level if he can devote his life to the NFL and not be distracted by college and he gets NFL quality coaching?     So, a guy like Clark gets a higher grade than you would give him because an OL coach like Philbin says I can turn this clay into a great piece of art.   I can turn this diamond in the rough into a beautiful polished gem.      That's why some of these scouts and front office people are very, very good at their job.     No one bats a thousand,  but the guys who do it well enough find guys like Clark and hopefully turn them into very good players.

 

Sorry this was such a long post.     I wanted to address all the issues here.

 

 

I am not a scout, all I can see is that he was listed on the list of top 50 prospects (sorted on grade) on nfl.com which made it a fair choice to draft him in the 3rd round where he was drafted.

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/tracker?icampaign=draft-sub_nav_bar-drafteventpage-tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-grade/dt-by-grade-input:1

 

I don't think they would grade him that high if there was no ceiling to be had. If you look at it, both LeRaven Clark and Hassan Ridgeway were graded in the top 50 and we got them in rounds 3 and 4. A little patience goes a long way. I know that grade is not the be all of evaluation since positional drafting can trump overall evaluation for a few GMs (Kelly was in fact graded lower than those 2, go figure) but it is at least a nod to the potential that scouts saw in him.

[cbear]

I will withhold judgment on Clark since he was a project pick.  However, when you have needs like the Colts did and you take anyone in the third round that you don't expect to play much in year 1 and maybe even year 2, when he does develop, he needs to be one heck of a player.   Here's hoping that turns out to be the case. 

[Coltfreak]

10 hours ago, jskinnz said:

 

Per usual a very measured and completely reasonable post.

 

I think the fact that there will be football played in 2017, 2018 and beyond is lost on many people.  An NFL team is not just drafting for the current year, even a team with the amount of holes that the Colts have.  What I can't comprehend are those in this thread who think that if Clark becomes a full time contributor next year is still somehow this is a wasted pick.  Complete nonsense.

 

 

Ok.   Yes there will be football next year and the next etc.   there will also be a draft next yr and the next etc

 

is it possible that the Colts could have taken a player at a different position with the Clark pick that could have contributed this year and years to come AND next yr drafted an OT than could contribute next year and for yes to come?

 

Why is that so hard for everyone to understand?

 

it wasn't like this was the last OT that the Colts will ever be able to take an OT. 

 

But it we sure could have used some pass rush THIS YEAR!!!!!

[Colts_Fan12]

On 11/19/2016 at 10:14 AM, Dustin said:

Grigson is such a terrible GM lol

And we're gonna be stuck with the *.....

[richard pallo]

4 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

And we're gonna be stuck with the *.....

YES WE ARE!

[Dark Superman]

I forgot about Clark. Huge waste of a pick.

[NewColtsFan]

 

Here's a question......

 

We just won a must win game......    why is any fan posting negative stuff about Grigson or Clark or anyone else for that matter?!?

 

What in the world is the matter with you people?!?

 

The team won.     Save your complaints for another day.    

 

Some of you are simply pathetic.....    pitiful.....

 

[akcolt]

13 hours ago, SupermanLuck12 said:

I forgot about Clark. Huge waste of a pick.

I did not like taking Clark but we took him about where most had him going. Everyone knew he'd need a year. The question is are we in a spot to draft guy's the first 2 days that aren't ready to contribute? 

 

The worst pick in our draft was Morrison in the 4th by far.. You can't find a predraft site that has that guy going before the 6th some had him as an UDFA. He's slow can't play sideline to sideline or cover to save his life. He isn't getting faster. I think he can be added to the growing list of LB's we drafted who ended up out of the league. 

 

We had our choice of RB's minus Zeke and Henry. there was help on the backend still on the board I liked CB's Hall or Robinson there but would not have been upset with Booker or Howard. 

[Valpo2004]

On 11/15/2016 at 4:36 PM, RockThatBlue said:

Heres a crazy idea.

 

 

How about we wait to see if the plan works with Clark before we decide its a failure?

 

Just like we waited on the Trent Richardson plan and several other of Grigson's plans.  

 

After 2012 Grigsn's entire career in Indianapolis has been one big giant failure.