Le'Raven Clark Update

[TKnight24]

 

[AKB]

Thanks for the read.

[Coffeedrinker]

In the Philly preseason game that was one of the worst performances that I have ever seen from an NFL tackle.  As bad as former Colts like Justice, Linkonhisbach and others have had, Clark's game was worse.

 

That being said it wasn't  bad performance because he didn't know what to do, just the opposite, he was very quick off the snap and was often in the correct place and engaging the correct defender... he just did absolutely nothing to slow the defender down once he was in position.  I made the comment several times on the game chat that it looked like Clark was on roller skates because he just got pushed back regularly.

 

Since he is on the scout team going against the #1 D, I'm assuming he hasn't improved that much as the year has progressed.

[Fisticuffs111]

Yeah, they're gonna say good things about him and his development as long as he's on the team. Hopefully they mean what they say though. Although credit to the coaches for being truthful about where he's at right now, sounds like he just can't be relied on at all at the moment.

Also I didn't realize he was already 23. For some reason I thought he was really young for a rookie, like 21 when he was drafted. 

[MacDee1975]

Another wasted early round pick for Grigson:

 

Le'Raven Clark

Bjorn Werner

Hugh Thornton

1st Rounder that was traded for Trent Richardson

Phillip Dorsett

D'Joun Smith

 

No wonder we suck.....missing on that many early draft picks that you need to hit on in order to be any good.

 

[ColtsFanMikeC]

16 minutes ago, MacDee1975 said:

Another wasted early round pick for Grigson:

 

Le'Raven Clark

Bjorn Werner

Hugh Thornton

1st Rounder that was traded for Trent Richardson

Phillip Dorsett

D'Joun Smith

 

No wonder we suck.....missing on that many early draft picks that you need to hit on in order to be any good.

 

 

Clark was a 3rd rounder (I guess we can call that early), who is way too early to make final judgement on.  Everyone knew when he was drafted that he was a 'project pick', coming out of a school where he pretty much never lined up like a traditional NFL Tackle. 

 

He has athleticism, size and reach for sure.  I don't think he has all the fundamentals an NFL player needs to be a starter in this league quite yet, and maybe lacks some strength.  If he can master his fundamentals (being an athlete doesn't cut it as an OL in the NFL, you have to be very fundamentally sound, as well), and get stronger (that is why NFL teams have coaches being paid good money to develop strength and conditioning), there is little reason why he cannot become at least an OK NFL player.  Sounds like he has pretty good work ethic, and I think (given our OL woes) he would have been cut by now to bring someone else in if the coaches didn't believe in his potential.

 

It is also too early to tell on Dorsett (remember the future HOF WR that played for us, also out of Miami, Reggie Wayne -- he averaged 12.8 ypc with 27 receptions and 0 TDs as a rookie, compared to Dorsett's 12.5 ypc, 18 receptions, and a TD as a rookie in less games -- half way through this season, he is not too far behind Reggie's pace as a 2nd year WR).  He hasn't lit it up yet, but I also don't think the coaches have quite figured out how best to use him yet... a lot of routes he runs are designed to take time, which Luck isn't consistently getting a lot of from the OL.

 

D'Joun Smith and Thornton both haven't been able to stay healthy (not something you can really project as a GM on draft day).  Werner was a bust, who I just don't think had the athleticism the coaches/scouts/GM thought he had when they picked him up.  When T-Rich was traded for, it was out of necessity due to injury to other RBs on our roster -- the move didn't work out, but it wasn't like it didn't make at least a little sense.

 

Nobody's perfect when it comes to being a GM in the NFL Draft.  Grigs hasn't been the best in the world, but he is far from the worst.  Also, to his credit, he was pretty much handed a large pile of trash from Polian.

[RockThatBlue]

36 minutes ago, MacDee1975 said:

Another wasted early round pick for Grigson:

 

Le'Raven Clark

Bjorn Werner

Hugh Thornton

1st Rounder that was traded for Trent Richardson

Phillip Dorsett

D'Joun Smith

 

No wonder we suck.....missing on that many early draft picks that you need to hit on in order to be any good.

 

Wow. Already giving up on him? We haven't even seen the guy play yet.

 

Everyone knew he was essentually a project and would be redshirted this year.

[JMichael557]

You do not draft a "project" in the 3rd Round.

[Coltfreak]

23 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Wow. Already giving up on him? We haven't even seen the guy play yet.

 

Everyone knew he was essentually a project and would be redshirted this year.

shouldn't have drafted a redshirt type of guy in round 3 when there was obvious need at other positions now

[chad72]

34 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Wow. Already giving up on him? We haven't even seen the guy play yet.

 

Everyone knew he was essentually a project and would be redshirted this year.

 

I kind of agree. Let me explain.

 

RBs like Jordan Howard were available, an ILB like Joshua Perry of Ohio State was available, could have used some talent like that. I like the fact Grigson addressed OL with several picks but I hope Clark has a great ceiling for us to draft a project that early. A 5th or 6th round draft pick for a project is different than a 3rd rounder. I am glad they brought T.J.Green along better than just leaving him out there as a "project". But then, OL and DL are far more harder positions to transition to the NFL than the secondary or skill positions. So I hope it is worth it.

 

We just lucked out that Haeg was still out there, IMO, and Grigson had no way to know that, Haeg has been more useful to us than Blythe or Clarke right now. Blythe, it was a 7th rounder, back up center at worst (not what they tried to use him for). So this one is a push for me with Grigson. One more offseason for Clarke and if he is still not ready to crack the rotation, that would not be good.

 

So, I do agree with you, a bit too early to judge.

[ClaytonColt]

I still remember the video from pre-season of the scouts giving their insight into why he was picked.

 

It was basically 6 minutes of them pointing out that he's got long arms. With insight and expertise like that I'm genuinely surprised he's failing. 

[Jason_]

36 minutes ago, JMichael557 said:

You do not draft a "project" in the 3rd Round.

 

LOL..   You don't pay much attention do you?  teams draft projects in EVERY round.  Dontari Poe was considered a project coming out of Kentucky but was taken early first round.  Ezekial Ansah was a project...also taken in the first round.  That's just 2 very quick, off the top of my head examples. 

[Jason_]

1 hour ago, MacDee1975 said:

Another wasted early round pick for Grigson:

 

Le'Raven Clark

Bjorn Werner

Hugh Thornton

1st Rounder that was traded for Trent Richardson

Phillip Dorsett

D'Joun Smith

 

No wonder we suck.....missing on that many early draft picks that you need to hit on in order to be any good.

 

 

[Coffeedrinker]

3 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

LOL..   You don't pay much attention do you?  teams draft projects in EVERY round.  Dontari Poe was considered a project coming out of Kentucky but was taken early first round.  Ezekial Ansah was a project...also taken in the first round.  That's just 2 very quick, off the top of my head examples. 

Jared Goff as well.

[crazycolt1]

43 minutes ago, JMichael557 said:

You do not draft a "project" in the 3rd Round.

Every player drafted is a "project'.

[COLTS449]

Coulda had Fackrell

[COLTS449]

21 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

LOL..   You don't pay much attention do you?  teams draft projects in EVERY round.  Dontari Poe was considered a project coming out of Kentucky but was taken early first round.  Ezekial Ansah was a project...also taken in the first round.  That's just 2 very quick, off the top of my head examples. 

 

Memphis

[Jason_]

Just now, COLTS449 said:

 

Memphis

 

I knew it was one of those smaller, who cares about them KY schools lol

[jskinnz]

1 hour ago, JMichael557 said:

You do not draft a "project" in the 3rd Round.

 

DJ Humphries was drafted in the first round by the Cardinals and he did not play at all last year.  He is now their starting RT.  The fact is playing Oline in college spread offenses is much different than it is in the NFL.  There is a steep learning curve and I think Clark is exactly where they expected him to be this year.  I firmly believe they want him to be inactive all year.  

[BrentMc11]

After further review and careful considerations and training, we may need to trade him to the Le'Ravens.

 

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, MacDee1975 said:

Another wasted early round pick for Grigson:

 

Le'Raven Clark

Bjorn Werner

Hugh Thornton

1st Rounder that was traded for Trent Richardson

Phillip Dorsett

D'Joun Smith

 

No wonder we suck.....missing on that many early draft picks that you need to hit on in order to be any good.

 

 

It's not a waste if that's been the plan all along --- and it has.

 

This was known and predicted back when Clark was drafted.

 

It's not the least bit fair comparing Clark to the others.

 

Oh, and you can take Dorsett off he list too.    It's way too early to be down on Dorsett long term.

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

44 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

LOL..   You don't pay much attention do you?  teams draft projects in EVERY round.  Dontari Poe was considered a project coming out of Kentucky but was taken early first round.  Ezekial Ansah was a project...also taken in the first round.  That's just 2 very quick, off the top of my head examples. 

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS!!!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Ding!    Ding!    Ding!       Winner!     Winner!     Chicken Dinner!      Ding!     Ding!     Ding!

 

Thanks to Jason S for the Post of the Day!!          

 

 

[TKnight24]

7 minutes ago, BrentMc11 said:

After further review and careful considerations and training, we may need to trade him to the Le'Ravens.

 

 

If they give us Perriman, Moseley, & a 1st rounder  they can have Le'Raven, Dwayne Allen, Phillip Dorsett, & Robert Mathis 

 

 

[BrentMc11]

1 minute ago, TKnight24 said:

 

If they give us Perriman, Moseley, & a 1st rounder  they can have Le'Raven, Dwayne Allen, Phillip Dorsett, & Robert Mathis 

 

 

Take the sarcasm off...trade them...HA HA!

[MacDee1975]

1 hour ago, JMichael557 said:

You do not draft a "project" in the 3rd Round.

 

Exactly.

 

 

[RockThatBlue]

2 hours ago, Coltfreak said:

shouldn't have drafted a redshirt type of guy in round 3 when there was obvious need at other positions now

That wasn't my point at all. I didn't draft him, tell Grigson that.

 

I'm just saying its silly to say its a wasted pick when we haven't even seen the guy play yet. For all we know he could turn out to be a great RT. Or he could end up horrible. Theres nothing to base either opinion on yet. Putting him on the same list as Werner is ridiculous.

[MacDee1975]

As atrocious as this offensive line is, a 3rd round pick can't even log a single second of playing time.  You all think this was a wise draft pick?

 

There's a reason the Colts are 4-5 and look like garbage 2/3 of the time.  They are not a good team and they are not talented.  They are not talented because of their GM stupidly drafting guys like Dorsett and Clark, guys who can't contribute one iota despite having every opportunity in the world to do so.

 

Reminds of when people on here used every excuse in the book to explain why Bjorn Werner sucked and/or didn't play. Occam's razor.....the simplest explanation is usually the correct one.  All these guys don't play / look lost when they do play / aren't productive because......they aren't good.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

I'd say tj green is more of a project than Clark honestly. But gotta give them both a little time atleast to show they can be starters. 

[jimmy g]

1 hour ago, Jason_S said:

 

I knew it was one of those smaller, who cares about them KY schools lol

Memphis moved to Ky?????

[RockThatBlue]

8 minutes ago, MacDee1975 said:

As atrocious as this offensive line is, a 3rd round pick can't even log a single second of playing time.  You all think this was a wise draft pick?

 

There's a reason the Colts are 4-5 and look like garbage 2/3 of the time.  They are not a good team and they are not talented.  They are not talented because of their GM stupidly drafting guys like Dorsett and Clark, guys who can't contribute one iota despite having every opportunity in the world to do so.

 

Reminds of when people on here used every excuse in the book to explain why Bjorn Werner sucked and/or didn't play. Occam's razor.....the simplest explanation is usually the correct one.  All these guys don't play / look lost when they do play / aren't productive because......they aren't good.

Heres a crazy idea.

 

 

How about we wait to see if the plan works with Clark before we decide its a failure?

[Jason_]

6 minutes ago, jimmy g said:

Memphis moved to Ky?????

 

lol...wow I'm really off today

[Coltfreak]

26 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

That wasn't my point at all. I didn't draft him, tell Grigson that.

 

I'm just saying its silly to say its a wasted pick when we haven't even seen the guy play yet. For all we know he could turn out to be a great RT. Or he could end up horrible. Theres nothing to base either opinion on yet. Putting him on the same list as Werner is ridiculous.

It was a terrible pick because he was not going to play this year.  It doesnt matter that he may one day be good.... there will be other players in the drafts to come that could be just as good if not better and we wouldnt have to wait on him to develop   Yes I have given up on him   It pisses me off he was drafted

[JMichael557]

I don't know of any 3rd round pick that when drafted cannot play. I understand that sometimes you draft a player where you have players ahead of him and let him learn instead of starting. However in those cases if needed the player can still be used on the field. Clark has been with the team since May and is not able to be uses in November even if the need arises. Makes Zero sense.

[NewColtsFan]

13 minutes ago, JMichael557 said:

I don't know of any 3rd round pick that when drafted cannot play. I understand that sometimes you draft a player where you have players ahead of him and let him learn instead of starting. However in those cases if needed the player can still be used on the field. Clark has been with the team since May and is not able to be uses in November even if the need arises. Makes Zero sense.

 

I'm going to explain it,  but I'm confident you won't understand it,  because you're not interested in understanding it.

 

You take someone like Clark if you think he could someday be a 1st round talent.     Someone with a really high ceiling.       Someone who you think is dramatically better than a pick in the early 80's where he was taken.

 

It's a gamble.     But it came with the recommendation of Joe Philbin,  one of the better OL coaches in the NFL.

A rare shot at landing a 1st round talent with a 3rd round pick.    All that is required is a little patience.

 

It was signed-off by Irsay,  who knew we weren't going to get anything out of our 3rd round pick.

 

So, everyone was on board ---- expect you an a few others.

 

 

[JMichael557]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm going to explain it,  but I'm confident you won't understand it,  because you're not interested in understanding it.

 

You take someone like Clark if you think he could someday be a 1st round talent.     Someone with a really high ceiling.       Someone who you think is dramatically better than a pick in the early 80's where he was taken.

 

It's a gamble.     But it came with the recommendation of Joe Philbin,  one of the better OL coaches in the NFL.

A rare shot at landing a 1st round talent with a 3rd round pick.    All that is required is a little patience.

 

It was signed-off by Irsay,  who knew we weren't going to get anything out of our 3rd round pick.

 

So, everyone was on board ---- expect you an a few others.

 

 

I understand a little bit in that I have coached football for 15 years. I have worked with multiple players that need to develop. Can you name a player who had zero ability to play when drafted that later rose to the talent of a first round pick? My point is you do not gamble with a 3rd round pick. You gamble with a 7th round pick. In todays NFL with free agency and salary caps you need players in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd who can play. Green taken in the second is an example. He has a lot of ability but was raw. The Colts drafted him with the thought that he would be brought along slowly. However due to injuries he had to play sooner rather than later and while he will get better he has been able to play.  Clark as of this moment in time is not good enough to even play when we had massive injuries to the o-line.    “Teams are drafting on potential. College coaches have known it a while and it’s going to be known in the pro ranks soon, potential is what gets coaches fired down the line.” (Said by Kansas University head basketball coach Roy Williams.—ed.)

[BOTT]

4 hours ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

 

Clark was a 3rd rounder (I guess we can call that early), who is way too early to make final judgement on.  Everyone knew when he was drafted that he was a 'project pick', coming out of a school where he pretty much never lined up like a traditional NFL Tackle. 

 

He has athleticism, size and reach for sure.  I don't think he has all the fundamentals an NFL player needs to be a starter in this league quite yet, and maybe lacks some strength.  If he can master his fundamentals (being an athlete doesn't cut it as an OL in the NFL, you have to be very fundamentally sound, as well), and get stronger (that is why NFL teams have coaches being paid good money to develop strength and conditioning), there is little reason why he cannot become at least an OK NFL player.  Sounds like he has pretty good work ethic, and I think (given our OL woes) he would have been cut by now to bring someone else in if the coaches didn't believe in his potential.

 

It is also too early to tell on Dorsett (remember the future HOF WR that played for us, also out of Miami, Reggie Wayne -- he averaged 12.8 ypc with 27 receptions and 0 TDs as a rookie, compared to Dorsett's 12.5 ypc, 18 receptions, and a TD as a rookie in less games -- half way through this season, he is not too far behind Reggie's pace as a 2nd year WR).  He hasn't lit it up yet, but I also don't think the coaches have quite figured out how best to use him yet... a lot of routes he runs are designed to take time, which Luck isn't consistently getting a lot of from the OL.

 

D'Joun Smith and Thornton both haven't been able to stay healthy (not something you can really project as a GM on draft day).  Werner was a bust, who I just don't think had the athleticism the coaches/scouts/GM thought he had when they picked him up.  When T-Rich was traded for, it was out of necessity due to injury to other RBs on our roster -- the move didn't work out, but it wasn't like it didn't make at least a little sense.

 

Nobody's perfect when it comes to being a GM in the NFL Draft.  Grigs hasn't been the best in the world, but he is far from the worst.  Also, to his credit, he was pretty much handed a large pile of trash from Polian.

If Grigson isn't the worst, he is in the discussion.

[richard pallo]

I never liked the idea of taking a project player in the first three rounds.  Especially when we are in a rebuilding mode and need new starters and playmakers at a number of positions.   I have always been a proponent of drafting a potential starter in the first two rounds.  Given our draft position that could have been achieved.  That said, Irsay let them do it. That tells me Grigson and Pagano both have been given time to accomplish their goal.  Long enough to let them develop Clark and Green primarily for next year and beyond.  Hopefully both of those players should be major contributors next year.  It will be interesting to see if we draft project players again in rounds two and three or opt for a potential starter. 

[throwing BBZ]

3 hours ago, Jason_S said:

 

LOL..   You don't pay much attention do you?  teams draft projects in EVERY round.  Dontari Poe was considered a project coming out of Kentucky but was taken early first round.  Ezekial Ansah was a project...also taken in the first round.  That's just 2 very quick, off the top of my head examples. 

 

 Thank you Jason.
 There are many * posts found on this subject. Most 1st rd picks are Projects!! Good grief!
  I am sorry he isn`t ready to replace you know who at LT yet.
  I`m hoping in his 3rd season, barring injury.
  

[RomanianColtsFan]

I'm not optimistic about this guy. If they don't trust him in a limited role, when half of OL is injured, then it's not a good sign.

Didn't Adongo eventually play on special teams a couple of times in his first year? Or was it in the 2nd year?

Anyway, I think of Clark as a bust unless proven otherwise.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, JMichael557 said:

I understand a little bit in that I have coached football for 15 years. I have worked with multiple players that need to develop. Can you name a player who had zero ability to play when drafted that later rose to the talent of a first round pick? My point is you do not gamble with a 3rd round pick. You gamble with a 7th round pick. In todays NFL with free agency and salary caps you need players in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd who can play. Green taken in the second is an example. He has a lot of ability but was raw. The Colts drafted him with the thought that he would be brought along slowly. However due to injuries he had to play sooner rather than later and while he will get better he has been able to play.  Clark as of this moment in time is not good enough to even play when we had massive injuries to the o-line.    “Teams are drafting on potential. College coaches have known it a while and it’s going to be known in the pro ranks soon, potential is what gets coaches fired down the line.” (Said by Kansas University head basketball coach Roy Williams.—ed.)

 

As has bee noted in this thread already....

 

Arizona used it's FIRST round pick last year on OT DJ Humphrey from Florida.     He's now starting this year.

 

Detroit used it's FIRST round pick a few years ago (5th overall)  on Iggy Ansah out of BYU.   He had pretty much just learned how to play football his senior year.     Ansah is now one of top DE's in football.

 

Jared Goff was taken FIRST OVERALL, and sat the first 10 weeks of the season.     Honestly,  I think Fisher has had his hand forced.     I don't get the feeling Goff is ready,  but they're throwing him in.

 

Teams take projects all the time.     It happens in every draft these days.    It's a new world in the NFL.

 

Finally,   why should I, or anyone for that matter,  care about what a College basketball coach said year ago.  Williams left Kansas, what?    A decade ago?      He doesn't even coach football.

 

HIs comments are completely irrelevant.     And besides,  his comments help MY ARGUMENT and not yours.

 

Teams are drafting on potential.    That's what teams are doing.    Including the Colts with Clark.    Your argument is that doing this gets coaches fired.    OK.     But they're still doing it.     Whether it's good or bad is a different argument.      But teams are doing it.