Le'Raven Clark Update

[BOTT]

3 hours ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

 

I am not a big Grigson fan, trust me.

 

However, he took the worst (this isn't even a discussion, the Colts were such a joke when he took over) team in the league which was full of players that don't fit the model of what the new coaching staff was planning to build.

 

In spite of that, he had a very, very good draft in his first year (sure, we got "Luck"y having the first pick -- but that was mainly a product of how awful the team was) and built a 2 win team into an 11 win team.  Won 11 games for the next 2 years and advanced a round further in the playoffs each time.  That is impressive.

 

Sure, he has made some bonehead moves.... but for the majority of the time, his logic has been pretty sound.  His 2nd year, Bjoern Werner was a bust of a first round pick.... but used the 2nd round pick on Vontae (having a top 10 NFL CB from a 2nd round pick is a steal), and then drafted 2 OL -- neither of them have been able to stay healthy (that is not Grigson's fault - had either or both of those guys worked out, our OL would not be in the shape it is now). 

 

I could go on, but don't have the time.... moral of the story is, sure Grigs has made some bad decisions, but he has also made some excellent decisions.  He's signed some old FA's, but guess what? They were (with exception of Landry over Bethea) better than what we had on the roster Grigs was dealt with.  The man has never had a losing season, and in 3 of 4 years he's been here this team has been in the NFL Playoffs (not an easy thing to accomplish when inheriting a load of garbage, not an easy thing to accomplish for anyone, really -- winning games in the NFL is not easy.... oh, and the 1 year the team didn't make the playoffs, we were playing without our franchise QB for half the season).

 

I think we could argue that there is 32 teams in the NFL, only 12 a year make the playoffs -- for Grigs first 3 years, there were 20 teams who did not do what we did in terms of making the playoffs -- meaning there might just be 20 NFL GM's on teams we don't follow as closely who have fans that think there GM is worse than Grigs.

I stopped reading fairly quickly.  It seemed you were going down the path of a well worn defense of Grigson that I have heard on this forum a gazillion times.

 

Find me anyone that isn't a colts fan that believes Grigson is anything but a poor GM.  Anyone.

[NewColtsFan]

27 minutes ago, BOTT said:

I stopped reading fairly quickly.  It seemed you were going down the path of a well worn defense of Grigson that I have heard on this forum a gazillion times.

 

Find me anyone that isn't a colts fan that believes Grigson is anything but a poor GM.  Anyone.

 

 

I'm not trying to be clever here,  but define "poor"....

 

Or,  put another way,   approx where would he rank among the league's 32 GM's.....?

 

[Creekside]

I've been reading the back and forth arguments, and it seems to come down to this: Clark is now a project and could possibly become a good player....and...ugh...that's about it...

[NewColtsFan]

8 minutes ago, egg said:

I've been reading the back and forth arguments, and it seems to come down to this: Clark is now a project and could possibly become a good player. But because he was drafted in the 3rd, the Colts surely expected him to at least contribute to some degree in games this year and to develop his skills with some real playing time, (like Haeg is now doing). Many of us believe it is a bad sign that Clark can't crack the 53 man roster. It's not like the Colts have a surplus of good tackles. This is not a Grigson bash. I don't expect him to hit on every pick. I personally think Haeg will become the player they had hoped Clark would become. If they miss on Clark, but hit on Haeg, that's fine with me.

 

How did you come to the conclusion that the Colts drafted him expecting to get something out of him this year?

 

They said when they drafted him -- project.

 

They said when he made the 53 -- project.

 

All he plays is special teams and that's all he will play this year.

 

What do you mean "can't crack the 53"....    Clark is not on the Practice Squad.     Clark IS on the 53.    He plays on ST teams in most every game.

 

Somehow, day is night and up is down on the post......        

 

[Creekside]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

 

How did you come to the conclusion that the Colts drafted him expecting to get something out of him this year?

 

They said when they drafted him -- project.

 

They said when he made the 53 -- project.

 

All he plays is special teams and that's all he will play this year.

 

What do you mean "can't crack the 53"....    Clark is not on the Practice Squad.     Clark IS on the 53.    He plays on ST teams in most every game.

 

Somehow, day is night and up is down on the post......        

 

Thanks for the correction.. I thought I read that he was on the practice squad..

[BOTT]

40 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

I'm not trying to be clever here,  but define "poor"....

 

Or,  put another way,   approx where would he rank among the league's 32 GM's.....?

 

 

 

i don't know where he ranks, nor do I really care.  I know he belongs in a GM category that headlines "not good".

[twfish]

10 hours ago, MacDee1975 said:

Got it.  Draft "projects" like Clark in the third round, but immediate contributors who play the same position in Haeg in the 5th round.  Makes a ton of sense. No wonder the Colts are such a talented football team, as evidenced by their stellar record of 4-5.

Haeg's ceiling is not much higher than what he's at now. Maybe, MAYBE run of the mill, middle of the pack guard that can play some tackle solid but not a difference maker. Clark's ceiling is a top tackle in the league. So I guess you don't get it...

[BOTT]

Just now, twfish said:

Haeg's ceiling is not much higher than what he's at now. Maybe, MAYBE run of the mill, middle of the pack guard that can play some tackle solid but not a difference maker. Clark's ceiling is a top tackle in the league. So I guess you don't get it...

 

Two big leaps

[Coltfreak]

4 minutes ago, twfish said:

Haeg's ceiling is not much higher than what he's at now. Maybe, MAYBE run of the mill, middle of the pack guard that can play some tackle solid but not a difference maker. Clark's ceiling is a top tackle in the league. So I guess you don't get it...

Where on earth do you see top tackle in the league?

[BOTT]

20 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

Where on earth do you see top tackle in the league?

Because he has Tony Ugoh like raw ability........

[jskinnz]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

How did you come to the conclusion that the Colts drafted him expecting to get something out of him this year?

 

They said when they drafted him -- project.

 

They said when he made the 53 -- project.

 

All he plays is special teams and that's all he will play this year.

 

What do you mean "can't crack the 53"....    Clark is not on the Practice Squad.     Clark IS on the 53.    He plays on ST teams in most every game.

 

Somehow, day is night and up is down on the post......        

 

 

Actually I think he has only been active for 4 games this season and that was only because they were in dire straits with injuries.  

[Gavin]

Keep running on them this quarter!! Give them no hope in the 4th!. Find mismatches on offense with Paul George on Richardson Jefferson

 

Loved that defense by Thad on Love pressuring him on that last possession by Cleveland though it ended in points by Cleveland, Love got the pass off but Thad made in more difficult rather than just allow him to pass it freely

[Gavin]

That's 1 of two things that frustrates me about this team. They fall asleep on guys that can shoot the 3 and over help. Man up and just play solid 1 on one defense, Trust your teammates to win their matchups. Just Man Defense without Lebron can beat this team 

[WoolMagnet]

1 hour ago, twfish said:

Haeg's ceiling is not much higher than what he's at now. Maybe, MAYBE run of the mill, middle of the pack guard that can play some tackle solid but not a difference maker. Clark's ceiling is a top tackle in the league. So I guess you don't get it...

I find it hard to believe Haeg has reached his celing half way thru his rookie year.  Unless he stops practicing and going to meetings, he'll improve.  Maybe he'll never be a pro bowler but who cares.

i'm really not rating or judging him or Clark.  But at this point, my money is on Haeg for the longer career.

with the struggles we've had on the line, Clark would gave been in the mix if he was anywhere near ready.  Meanwhile, Haeg has played all over the line it seems.

i'm. Hoping Clark pans out, next years camp will say alot.  I guess i eould think if Clark gad a ceiling of a "top tackle in league", he should be good enuff, at the very least, for backup or spot duties... Now.

i think he's just struggling with something. I dont know what, but even Blythe has seen reps.

[southwest1]

3 hours ago, BOTT said:

I stopped reading fairly quickly.  It seemed you were going down the path of a well worn defense of Grigson that I have heard on this forum a gazillion times.

 

Find me anyone that isn't a colts fan that believes Grigson is anything but a poor GM.  Anyone.

Bingo! Outside of the Hoosier State, no former GM, lineman, or pass rusher turned football analyst is gloating about Ryan's management of this organization. Mark Sherelth slams our failure to protect Luck all the time. 

 

Also, as a former linemen himself, you'd think Ryan would be better at pinpointing talent on our line. I've seen enough. Grigson needs to be dismissed after this yr. He knows how to draft TEs & WRs & that's about it. 

 

Basically, what you're saying is that most coaches don't view INDY as a threat more like a joke since our pass rush is almost nonexistent, we can't run the ball for 100 yards week to week, & if secondaries just wait long enough they can pick chewy off late in the 3rd since Luck's arm is our only reliable saving grace. 

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

I'm not trying to be clever here,  but define "poor"....

 

Or,  put another way,   approx where would he rank among the league's 32 GM's.....?

 

I don't really think front office rankings really matter at all NCF. Just a reduction in QB hits which keeps accelerating under Grigson's watch. If your GM can't protect your franchise, why keep him around? Isn't that his #1 job? 

[Yoshinator]

24 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

Bingo! Outside of the Hoosier State, no former GM, lineman, or pass rusher turned football analyst is gloating about Ryan's management of this organization. Mark Sherelth slams our failure to protect Luck all the time. 

 

Also, as a former linemen himself, you'd think Ryan would be better at pinpointing talent on our line. I've seen enough. Grigson needs to be dismissed after this yr. He knows how to draft TEs & WRs & that's about it. 

 

Basically, what you're saying is that most coaches don't view INDY as a threat more like a joke since our pass rush is almost nonexistent, we can't run the ball for 100 yards week to week, & if secondaries just wait long enough they can pick chewy off late in the 3rd since Luck's arm is our only reliable saving grace. 

I don't really think front office rankings really matter at all NCF. Just a reduction in QB hits which keeps accelerating under Grigson's watch. If your GM can't protect your franchise, why keep him around? Isn't that his #1 job? 

Basically getting a franchise qb and building a team around him are the two main goals. If you do these things, the rest fall in place if your drafting is true to an extent. We couldn't screw up getting Luck, Irsay wouldn't of let Grigson get RGIII if he wanted. Building a team  around him is the thing. Year 5 and we have a year 1 team with a few young guys that are actually great and most of them that are role players at best. There was no rhyme or reason to anything Grigs did in 5 years in the draft. He didn't build the O-Line until now, he didn't build the defense. Just random hits it seems sprinkled in here and there that haven't made much of a difference. Really old. I put part of the blame on Pagano as he can't develop players, but both need to go.

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, Coltfreak said:

Where on earth do you see top tackle in the league?

 

You see it in the profiles that were written about Clark for this past draft.

 

If you were going to assemble a tackle, he'd look a lot like Clark.     Height,  weight,  arm length,  hand size,  athleticism,   smarts,   experience,   passion for football.     Physically and mentally he's the complete package.

 

But.....

 

He played in a system so far away from the NFL that he'd be eaten alive if he was playing now.    The plan was to give him a redshirt year,  like Arizona gave DJ Humphrey last year and now Humphrey is starting for the Cardinals now.

 

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

31 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

Bingo! Outside of the Hoosier State, no former GM, lineman, or pass rusher turned football analyst is gloating about Ryan's management of this organization. Mark Sherelth slams our failure to protect Luck all the time. 

 

Also, as a former linemen himself, you'd think Ryan would be better at pinpointing talent on our line. I've seen enough. Grigson needs to be dismissed after this yr. He knows how to draft TEs & WRs & that's about it. 

 

Basically, what you're saying is that most coaches don't view INDY as a threat more like a joke since our pass rush is almost nonexistent, we can't run the ball for 100 yards week to week, & if secondaries just wait long enough they can pick chewy off late in the 3rd since Luck's arm is our only reliable saving grace. 

I don't really think front office rankings really matter at all NCF. Just a reduction in QB hits which keeps accelerating under Grigson's watch. If your GM can't protect your franchise, why keep him around? Isn't that his #1 job? 

 

I was only asking Bott for his opinion as to how "poor" he thought Grigson was.

 

Remember,  I jumped off the Grigson bandwagon in January.     I'm not defending him.     And, in a few months, I'll start another discussion about Grigson that I'm sure will lead to an interesting conversation.    But I want to wait until after the season.

 

No need to start it now.

 

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I was only asking Bott for his opinion as to how "poor" he thought Grigson was.

 

Remember,  I jumped off the Grigson bandwagon in January.     I'm not defending him.     And, in a few months, I'll start another discussion about Grigson that I'm sure will lead to an interesting conversation.    But I want to wait until after the season.

 

No need to start it now.

 

Yep, Grigson can't screw this team up in a monumental way anyway right unless he releases a solid player. Can't make a boneheaded trade, can't draft players until April. So it's not an issue til the offseason. If he tries to release a valuable player, Irsay can intervene. He's not the main problem anyway.

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, twfish said:

Haeg's ceiling is not much higher than what he's at now. Maybe, MAYBE run of the mill, middle of the pack guard that can play some tackle solid but not a difference maker. Clark's ceiling is a top tackle in the league. So I guess you don't get it...

 

I don't know why you would think his ceiling is this low?     Why come to that conclusion on any rookie at this point?

 

He's started at three different positions.      Which to me says he's floor is no longer than Joe Reitz,  and his ceiling is that he'd be at least average, if not above average at whatever his best position turns out to be.

 

 

[Yoshinator]

5 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I don't know why you would think his ceiling is this low?     Why come to that conclusion on any rookie at this point?

 

He's started at three different positions.      Which to me says he's floor is no longer than Joe Reitz,  and his ceiling is that he'd be at least average, if not above average at whatever his best position turns out to be.

 

 

He's just quoting what he heard from a scouting report. Haeg is a 5th rounder with a low ceiling that is ready for the NFL and Clark is the 3rd rounder with high potential that needs to sit for a year. Yada, yada, yada. What he fails to take into account is sample size and how Haeg is actually succeeding in the NFL and outperforming his draft position. Once you play in the NFL, your scouting report can become obsolete very quickly. Like it has with Haeg. Clark is still a project guy until proven otherwise though. He's the one who needs to step up.

[southwest1]

11 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I was only asking Bott for his opinion as to how "poor" he thought Grigson was.

 

Remember,  I jumped off the Grigson bandwagon in January.     I'm not defending him.     And, in a few months, I'll start another discussion about Grigson that I'm sure will lead to an interesting conversation.    But I want to wait until after the season.

 

No need to start it now.

 

Yeah, I know that my friend. I wasn't really calling you out. My only point was this: GMs are only useful or can only be judged based on what team they currently work for & how well they keep their QB healthy. Yes, I realize that GMs are tasked with bringing in athletic talent for a HC to mold & put in a position to help the organization win several games. 

 

I know it seems like I'm harping on Luck's hits & I'll admit I am on purpose probably to a fault. I just revere Andrew & I want to see him flourish & not get beaten down & shell shocked like David Carr in Houston did. 

 

I look forward to your Grigs discussion in a few months. I value your insights & rest assured. I will chime in once the thread appears in due course. 

[southwest1]

32 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Basically getting a franchise qb and building a team around him are the two main goals. If you do these things, the rest fall in place if your drafting is true to an extent. We couldn't screw up getting Luck, Irsay wouldn't of let Grigson get RGIII if he wanted. Building a team  around him is the thing. Year 5 and we have a year 1 team with a few young guys that are actually great and most of them that are role players at best. There was no rhyme or reason to anything Grigs did in 5 years in the draft. He didn't build the O-Line until now, he didn't build the defense. Just random hits it seems sprinkled in here and there that haven't made much of a difference. Really old. I put part of the blame on Pagano as he can't develop players, but both need to go.

I guess it just bothers me that it took Ryan so long before he really focused on the OL. Okay sure, on defense Parry & Anderson were good picks & I know that unlike Dallas...Most linemen don't automatically slide into place & produce from jump street almost immediately. I get that. 

 

You're right, Pags & Philbin sole responsibility is to protect Luck. I just wish Anthony Castonzo was giving better protection right now & that Ryan's WR draft successes would translate in some minor way to our line. Look at Tom Cable in Seattle. He can take no name guys up front & by week 10 they look competent & give RW time to go thru his progressions & throw the ball with confidence. 

 

I just think change is in order since Chuck & Ryan have taken this club as far as they are capable & we need new blood on both fronts. 

[Superman]

Why are people acting like a redshirt rookie season is something unique to Le'Raven Clark and the 2016 Colts?

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

I guess it just bothers me that it took Ryan so long before he really focused on the OL. Okay sure, on defense Parry & Anderson were good picks & I know that unlike Dallas...Most linemen don't automatically slide into place & produce from jump street almost immediately. I get that. 

 

You're right, Pags & Philbin sole responsibility is to protect Luck. I just wish Anthony Castonzo was giving better protection right now & that Ryan's WR draft successes would translate in some minor way to our line. Look at Tom Cable in Seattle. He can take no name guys up front & by week 10 they look competent & give RW time to go thru his progressions & throw the ball with confidence. 

 

I just think change is in order since Chuck & Ryan have taken this club as far as they are capable & we need new blood on both fronts. 

No, you are correct 100%. There was no plan. We did take offensive players in 2012 to surround Luck yes, but the next 3 drafts were random picks for the most part before we focused on the line. We wasted the 2014 draft from the Trent Richardson trade, that limited us to Mewhort and Moncrief with no defense. 2013 was worthless. 2015 is looking worse and worse besides Anderson and Geathers. Seems all our draft classes get worse instead of better. Pagano can't develop a defensive player to save his life that we draft. Even Vontae was more mental than physical. Time to start over for sure.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

5 hours ago, BOTT said:

I stopped reading fairly quickly.  It seemed you were going down the path of a well worn defense of Grigson that I have heard on this forum a gazillion times.

 

Find me anyone that isn't a colts fan that believes Grigson is anything but a poor GM.  Anyone.

Find anyone who is a fan of any of the 20 other teams in Grigs' first three years which didn't make the playoffs who thinks they have a better GM than Grigs.

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

Find anyone who is a fan of any of the 20 other teams in Grigs' first three years which didn't make the playoffs who thinks they have a better GM than Grigs.

You or I could of made the playoffs drafting Andrew Luck 1st overall. Sorry, that means nothing. Luck carried the team, and if you really want to get down to it, Grigson screwed up the 2013 and crippled the 2014 draft in his first 3 years while he was here. Most of the reason had nothing to do with Grigson that we made the playoffs. In fact, a draft class is normally graded 3 years down the line correctly. So most of Grigson's effects, besides Luck weren't realized until 2015-2016 when it all caught up to him and we all realized Grigson missed on most of his picks the 1st three years. Luck was just so good, so fast, that he hid our weaknesses until the draft picks failed and we are where we are now.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

7 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

You or I could of made the playoffs drafting Andrew Luck 1st overall. Sorry, that means nothing. Luck carried the team, and if you really want to get down to it, Grigson screwed up the 2013 and crippled the 2014 draft in his first 3 years while he was here. Most of the reason had nothing to do with Grigson that we made the playoffs. In fact, a draft class is normally graded 3 years down the line correctly. So most of Grigson's effects, besides Luck weren't realized until 2015-2016 when it all caught up to him and we all realized Grigson missed on most of his picks the 1st three years. Luck was just so good, so fast, that he hid our weaknesses until the draft picks failed and we are where we are now.

 

I may have been able to make the playoffs if I was GM and had Luck overall, I highly doubt you could, though ;).

 

I get it, Luck is a stud.  There are many GMs who would not have made playoffs first 3 years with Luck, given what Grigs was given.

 

I get tired of his 'find the diamond in the rough' type of deal (Adango, etc..), but he hasn't really done anything too terrible when you look at his drafting, signings,etc. (T-Rich was a disaster, but it made sense at the time... several guys haven't stayed healthy, but he surrounded Luck with some play-makers in the 1st draft and tried to build the line in year 2).  Overall, this team isn't very far away from being a very solid team.  He had to rebuild pretty much from scratch -- sure, Luck was a very nice ingredient to start with, but you don't take the laughing stock of the league and make it a power-house overnight... that takes 5-6 years to do.

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

 

I may have been able to make the playoffs if I was GM and had Luck overall, I highly doubt you could, though ;).

 

I get it, Luck is a stud.  There are many GMs who would not have made playoffs first 3 years with Luck, given what Grigs was given.

 

I get tired of his 'find the diamond in the rough' type of deal (Adango, etc..), but he hasn't really done anything too terrible when you look at his drafting, signings,etc. (T-Rich was a disaster, but it made sense at the time... several guys haven't stayed healthy, but he surrounded Luck with some play-makers in the 1st draft and tried to build the line in year 2).  Overall, this team isn't very far away from being a very solid team.  He had to rebuild pretty much from scratch -- sure, Luck was a very nice ingredient to start with, but you don't take the laughing stock of the league and make it a power-house overnight... that takes 5-6 years to do.

^-^ Had to give you a like. The problem I have is that we don't have a single defensive starter from Grigson's 1st three drafts (unless you count Vontae). Even Fleener and Allen are basically busts or aren't on the team anymore. So that leaves us with Luck, Hilton, Vontae, Mewhort, and Moncrief. It's a base, but over 3 years, it's not great. We needed to do better, especially when Luck was a given and we had the 1st pick in every round that year. 

 

The last two drafts are better it seems, but the holes are starting to appear. Dorsett is looking more and more like a bust. D'Joun Smith is gone. Parry and Good are nice role players while it seems Geathers and Anderson can be starters. That's a good draft, especially if Dorsett figures it out. You can also see the difference when grigson makes a solid, safe pick in the 1st. Ryan Kelly is doing wonderful and T.J. green is looking good as well. The problem that Grigson always seems to make is he takes these project guys and it burns him. Every time. We may have a solid draft again, but the problem is we focused on O-Line late (5th year), defense late (5th year), and most importantly pass rush way too late (hasn't happened yet). The team is full of holes and it's not progressing quick enough. Luck's career will be 25-33% over after this year, and he still has a lackluster team around him. Something needs to happen soon.

[Superman]

9 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

We may have a solid draft again, but the problem is we focused on O-Line late (5th year), defense late (5th year), and most importantly pass rush way too late (hasn't happened yet).

 

This is a pet peeve of mine. Grigson has made plenty of bad draft picks, and that is the reason the team isn't better now. But he didn't wait five years to focus on the OL, the defense or the pass rush.

 

However, in his second draft, he took a pass rusher in the first, and OL in the 3rd and 4th; he didn't have a 2nd rounder, that was represented by Vontae Davis. In his third draft, he used a 2nd on Mewhort (didn't have a 1st), which a lot of people hated, and his 5th rounder was a decent edge rusher who smoked his way out of the league. There were FA signings that were supposed to supplement those picks, also, most of which didn't work out, unfortunately.

[Yoshinator]

19 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

This is a pet peeve of mine. Grigson has made plenty of bad draft picks, and that is the reason the team isn't better now. But he didn't wait five years to focus on the OL, the defense or the pass rush.

 

However, in his second draft, he took a pass rusher in the first, and OL in the 3rd and 4th; he didn't have a 2nd rounder, that was represented by Vontae Davis. In his third draft, he used a 2nd on Mewhort (didn't have a 1st), which a lot of people hated, and his 5th rounder was a decent edge rusher who smoked his way out of the league. There were FA signings that were supposed to supplement those picks, also, most of which didn't work out, unfortunately.

He technically took Thornton and Holmes in the 3rd and 4th, the problem was that they were massive reaches and the wrong move at that time. They were scheme fits and they didn't pay off. One thing you have to know is how to plan out your draft strategy and where to take your players in the best possible combination. Grigson left himself in a spot where he had to reach twice to get the guys he wanted. The best thing we could of done was just play it safe there. The 4 picks after Werner were all safe picks (which is what we needed in 2013). Unfortunately, it was a bad draft overall, so I won't fault Grigson too much. 

 

It took 4 years to focus on the defense. Besides Davis (in a trade) and werner, we took no one in the first 4 rounds on defense from 2012-2014. We completely avoided it. Can't imagine why it stinks. Even in 2015-2016 drafts we didn't use a 1st rounder on a defensive player. We have no pass rush, the O-Line is ehh, and the defense is young and still very weak at this time. Definitely a lot of mistakes. The last 2 drafts are promising, but it's too little too late unless something changes quick.

[NewColtsFan]

5 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

He technically took Thornton and Holmes in the 3rd and 4th, the problem was that they were massive reaches and the wrong move at that time. They were scheme fits and they didn't pay off. One thing you have to know is how to plan out your draft strategy and where to take your players in the best possible combination. Grigson left himself in a spot where he had to reach twice to get the guys he wanted. The best thing we could of done was just play it safe there. The 4 picks after Werner were all safe picks (which is what we needed in 2013). Unfortunately, it was a bad draft overall, so I won't fault Grigson too much. 

 

It took 4 years to focus on the defense. Besides Davis (in a trade) and werner, we took no one in the first 4 rounds on defense from 2012-2014. We completely avoided it. Can't imagine why it stinks. Even in 2015-2016 drafts we didn't use a 1st rounder on a defensive player. We have no pass rush, the O-Line is ehh, and the defense is young and still very weak at this time. Definitely a lot of mistakes. The last drafts are promising, but it's too little too late unless something changes quick.

 

Thornton and Holmes were not reaches.      They went just where they were supposed to go.

 

Based on what I was reading,  I called Thornton to the Colts in the 3rd round with the pick we took him.     And Holmes was supposed to go even higher, but the year he came out he was playing with a high ankle sprain, so he fell to the 4th round.   

 

Neither guy was a reach.        Unfortunately,  neither has worked out.     But that doesn't mean we reached for them.       And given the large FA money Grigson threw around (again, didn't pay off)   the idea that Grigson waited years to address the line is false.      He made a massive move in his 2nd season,  but none of the 4th moves worked out.     Sucks for us. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Yoshinator]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

 

Thornton and Holmes were not reaches.      They went just where they were supposed to go.

 

Based on what I was reading,  I called Thornton to the Colts in the 3rd round with the pick we took him.     And Holmes was supposed to go even higher, but the year he came out he was playing with a high ankle sprain, so he fell to the 4th round.   

 

Neither guy was a reach.        Unfortunately,  neither has worked out.     But that doesn't mean we reached for them.

 

 

I remember reading that Holmes shouldn't of been drafted. I'll try to provide a link if i can find one. Wasn't on the site yet when you predicted Thornton. Let me see If i can find that. scouting report.

[Superman]

Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

the problem was that they were massive reaches and the wrong move at that time

 

No they weren't. I don't know where you get that from, but both players went right in the range they were projected to go. 

 

And for a team starting AQ Shipley/Samson Satele at center, and Seth Olsen/Mike McGlynn at guard, in what world is drafting two OL in the 3rd and 4th "the wrong move"? You just said Grigson waited five years to address the line, but now you're saying drafting OL in 2013 was the wrong move at the time... 

 

This is all revisionist history.

[Yoshinator]

4 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I remember reading that Holmes shouldn't of been drafted. I'll try to provide a link if i can find one. Wasn't on the site yet when you predicted Thornton. Let me see If i can find that. scouting report.

Yeah, you're right. I must of had some false info at the time. Guessing it was from a bad source in my first year of scouting players. Can't seem to find it anywhere. Everywhere I'm looking has him as a 4th-5th round player. So I apologize. That's what I get for taking advice from random sites, lol.

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

No they weren't. I don't know where you get that from, but both players went right in the range they were projected to go. 

 

And for a team starting AQ Shipley/Samson Satele at center, and Seth Olsen/Mike McGlynn at guard, in what world is drafting two OL in the 3rd and 4th "the wrong move"? You just said Grigson waited five years to address the line, but now you're saying drafting OL in 2013 was the wrong move at the time... 

 

This is all revisionist history.

Yeah i just saw my info was wrong. Give me a break Superman, first year of scouting that year, had some bad info. Kinda took in what everyone told me at that time. Didn't have a site like this to get good opinions and viewpoints, I was trying to build a draft and put together 7 rounds of info based on scouting reports and combines on tv.

[Superman]

Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

Yeah i just saw my info was wrong. Give me a break Superman, first year of scouting that year, had some bad info. Kinda took in what everyone told me at that time. Didn't have a site like this to get good opinions and viewpoints, I was trying to build a draft and put together 7 rounds of info based on scouting reports and combines on tv.

 

Break given.

[NewColtsFan]

19 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Yeah, you're right. I must of had some false info at the time. Guessing it was from a bad source in my first year of scouting players. Can't seem to find it anywhere. Everywhere I'm looking has him as a 4th-5th round player. So I apologize. That's what I get for taking advice from random sites, lol.

 

No worries.......    there's a lot of info out there,  and,  IMHO,  most of it is just not very good.     Especially this far out.         Things don't get better until around a month away from the draft.

 

By that time,  all the Pro-Days are done and you have a better feel.     But until then,  a lot of the info is sketchy at best.

 

Just today,  a writer from Sports Illustrated did a top-10 at every position.    He listed a running back from Ohio State.     The kid has roughly 100 carries in 3 years.     And suddenly he's a top-10 RB in one of the best classes of running backs in a long, long time?      Really?     Seriously?      

 

Lots of sketchy stuff out there.....    and sometimes it's hard to figure out what is legit and what is not so good....

 

Thanks for your post.....    

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

No worries.......    there's a lot of info out there,  and,  IMHO,  most of it is just not very good.     Especially this far out.         Things don't get better until around a month away from the draft.

 

By that time,  all the Pro-Days are done and you have a better feel.     But until then,  a lot of the info is sketchy at best.

 

Just today,  a writer from Sports Illustrated did a top-10 at every position.    He listed a running back from Ohio State.     The kid has roughly 100 carries in 3 years.     And suddenly he's a top-10 RB in one of the best classes of running backs in a long, long time?      Really?     Seriously?      

 

Lots of sketchy stuff out there.....    and sometimes it's hard to figure out what is legit and what is not so good....

 

Thanks for your post.....    

Absolutely! Thanks for taking it in stride, and can't wait to chat with you about the draft next year!

[BOTT]

4 hours ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

Find anyone who is a fan of any of the 20 other teams in Grigs' first three years which didn't make the playoffs who thinks they have a better GM than Grigs.

Well, fans are usually pretty dumb.