I Don't See Any Potential In Most of our Young Players

[Defjamz26]

Just now, BOTT said:

Allen is a good all around TE who is injury prone.  No need to go all Trump on him.

He's got Stone hands and can't do more than: 2 catches, 26 yards, TD for a stat line. He's a great blocking TE. That's the best I can say about him. 

[Gavin]

11 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

He's got Stone hands and can't do more than: 2 catches, 26 yards, TD for a stat line. He's a great blocking TE. That's the best I can say about him. 

Seriously relax. every player has a couple bad games a year. He is targeted only 4.5 times per game and catches 3 with only 2 dropped passes on the year. He has caught 18 pf 27 targets with 2 drops

[YourNextGM]

Phillip Dorsett appears to be a poor man 's TY Hilton.  But we have TY Hilton,  so why draft a poor man' s TY Hilton? 

[Colts_Fan12]

8 minutes ago, YourNextGM said:

Phillip Dorsett appears to be a poor man 's TY Hilton.  But we have TY Hilton,  so why draft a poor man' s TY Hilton? 

He wishes he was playing like a poor man's TY. 

[Smoke317]

14 hours ago, ReMeDy said:

Depending on your definition of "young," let's give a shout-out to 4th year player Jack Doyle. He is turning into our version of Rob Gronkowski with his sure hands and big frame (6'6" 267 lbs), and unlike Gronk, he isn't a spoiled 8-yr trapped in a man's body!

Wow. Did you just say Doyle is turning into Gronk???  And I thought some of my posts were crazy.  You gotta post.  ***SARCASM*** after saying something like that or people will try to get you committed to the crazy house. 

[Smoke317]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

The point I was making with Ridgeway is that although I said 2 years is the cap, great players usually are good their rookie year. They usually flash a ton. Ridgeway hasn't done what Anderson did when in a similar fashion, he got some opportunities due to injury. No one is expecting every rookie to be a ROTY candidate but the top players in the league usually started off good.

 

If you think I'm being ridiculous I'll prove it with a very simple example:

 

Mathieu, Danielle Hunter, Khalil Mack, Aaron Donald, Dontari Poe, Marcus Peters, Eric Kendricks, CJ Moseley. These are some of the top young talents or rising young defensive (didn't do offense because it would have been overkill) in the league. They all had good rookie years and by year 2 we knew they were "good"

 

 

All those young guys you mentioned besides maybe Donald & Mack are surrounded by Pro Bowlers or even All Pro players. I think it's easier to slide into a situation like that and make plays.

[Colts_Fan12]

2 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

The point I was making with Ridgeway is that although I said 2 years is the cap, great players usually are good their rookie year. They usually flash a ton. Ridgeway hasn't done what Anderson did when in a similar fashion, he got some opportunities due to injury. No one is expecting every rookie to be a ROTY candidate but the top players in the league usually started off good.

 

If you think I'm being ridiculous I'll prove it with a very simple example:

 

Mathieu, Danielle Hunter, Khalil Mack, Aaron Donald, Dontari Poe, Marcus Peters, Eric Kendricks, CJ Moseley. These are some of the top young talents or rising young defensive (didn't do offense because it would have been overkill) in the league. They all had good rookie years and by year 2 we knew they were "good"

 

Dominique Easely, Stanley Jean-Baptiste, Eric Rowe, Quinton Coples, Dorial Green-Beckham. These are young players in the league who have been cut/traded 1-2 years into their rookie contracts. So the same is true for coaches. They're giving most players 2 years to show something and then they move on. Their not even keeping guys as depth.

Phillip Dorsett over Eric Kendricks 

 

Round 2 after the whole Bjoern Werner over Xavier Rhodes thing 

 

PS I hate you Grigson! Way to miss another great player that was right in front of you! 

[Smoke317]

2 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Phillip Dorsett over Eric Kendricks 

 

Round 2 after the whole Bjoern Werner over Xavier Rhodes thing 

 

PS I hate you Grigson! Way to miss another great player that was right in front of you! 

Werner may be the worst pick in Colts history.  That pick still hurts my soul. 

[Stephen]

2 hours ago, Coltfreak said:

You are blind if you dont see the potential....    Good and Haeg are going to make a nice tandem along side another rookie in Kelly.  Mewhort is young as in Moncreif and Dorsett   who will look better once he goes back to his position as the slot receiver.

 

Geather/Green is going to be a top notch safety tandem for yrs to come.

 

Parry Andersen and Ridgeway will be solid. 

 

I think Clark as a 3rd rounder was a waste of a pick  Should have gone corner or pass rush there.

 

 

I might add....  you dont have much potential in talent evaluating 

 

 

I would have liked to see green at wr. With his speed and height he'd probably be a beast.

[Stephen]

10 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 After year 3 was the old school way to look at a draft. And i will stick to that, especially with so many of these

players coming out early.
 We have a number of good prospects on the roster NOW.
They need good coaching, health, and lots of PT ahead. There is NO reason to doubt their potential.
   We just need a dozen more good prospects to build a Monster roster. lol
  Ridgeway has some TOOLS!!!! How about little Chester!  
 

Chester reminds me of garcon

[Stephen]

16 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

Werner may be the worst pick in Colts history.  That pick still hurts my soul. 

that and the richardson trade

[Stephen]

19 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Phillip Dorsett over Eric Kendricks 

 

Round 2 after the whole Bjoern Werner over Xavier Rhodes thing 

 

PS I hate you Grigson! Way to miss another great player that was right in front of you! 

I wanted both those players to

[Smoke317]

3 minutes ago, Stephen said:

that and the richardson trade

Richardson was indeed gross negligence. But even I was fooled on that one. I was thinking Super Bowl here we come.... Lol. Boy was I wrong. I think he would have made a great Fullback blocking for Bradshaw though. Problem is you don't see too many first round fullbacks...

[Hoosiernsavga]

1 hour ago, BOTT said:

Allen is a good all around TE who is injury prone.  No need to go all Trump on him.

I don't care how you sugar coat it. Doyle may not have the physical attributes as Allen. But he has produced more on the football field. You can blame It on injuries or whatever you want. But I'm taking Doyle over Allen all day until Allen shows up which he hasn't so far. Even when healthy Doyle has better hands and has shown to be the better run blocker this season. 

 

 

[Smoke317]

2 minutes ago, Hoosiernsavga said:

I don't care how you sugar coat it. Doyle may not have the physical attributes as Allen. But he has produced more on the football field. You can blame It on injuries or whatever you want. But I'm taking Doyle over Allen all day until Allen shows up which he hasn't so far. Even when healthy Doyle has better hands and has shown to be the better run blocker this season. 

 

 

I can't speak on the blocking. Haven't studied tape to say he's a better run blocker. As evidenced in Houston, Doyle's pass blocking is trash though. But as far as hands and athleticism, it's Doyle all day every day. He needs to be out running routes on every pass play. Screw the max protect. Give me Doyle catching the ball. He's got Dallas Clark like ability.  Maybe not the speed, but I can live with that. 

[Stephen]

6 minutes ago, Hoosiernsavga said:

I don't care how you sugar coat it. Doyle may not have the physical attributes as Allen. But he has produced more on the football field. You can blame It on injuries or whatever you want. But I'm taking Doyle over Allen all day until Allen shows up which he hasn't so far. Even when healthy Doyle has better hands and has shown to be the better run blocker this season. 

 

 

doyle is the better catcher by far. Allen hasn't been the same since the 8 td year.

[Smoke317]

15 hours ago, ReMeDy said:

Depending on your definition of "young," let's give a shout-out to 4th year player Jack Doyle. He is turning into our version of Rob Gronkowski with his sure hands and big frame (6'6" 267 lbs), and unlike Gronk, he isn't a spoiled 8-yr trapped in a man's body!

To be fair to you though ReM, Doyle can be our version of Dallas Clark (not as fast) but I'd take that all day every day.  

[Stephen]

2 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

He's got Stone hands and can't do more than: 2 catches, 26 yards, TD for a stat line. He's a great blocking TE. That's the best I can say about him. 

He's no dallas clark that's for sure. 

[BOTT]

10 minutes ago, Hoosiernsavga said:

I don't care how you sugar coat it. Doyle may not have the physical attributes as Allen. But he has produced more on the football field. You can blame It on injuries or whatever you want. But I'm taking Doyle over Allen all day until Allen shows up which he hasn't so far. Even when healthy Doyle has better hands and has shown to be the better run blocker this season. 

 

 

How was I sugar coating it?  I just saw no reason to call the guy trash.

 

yes, Doyle is performing better than Allen.....I don't think many would deny that.

[OLD FAN MAN]

11 hours ago, #12. said:

 

Yet, the team is worse than ever.  In fact, this team is probably in as bad of shape as it's been since the early 90's.

 

Instead of comparing Grigson to himself, saying his last two years weren't as terrible as his first three years, it makes much more sense to look at the actual results - the current state of the team - and compare the actual results to those of the other 31 GMs and teams.  If all Grigson has to do is outperform his early Millen-esque work, it's not a very high standard.

I agree

[ReMeDy]

11 hours ago, #12. said:

 

Yet, the team is worse than ever.  In fact, this team is probably in as bad of shape as it's been since the early 90's.

 

Instead of comparing Grigson to himself, saying his last two years weren't as terrible as his first three years, it makes much more sense to look at the actual results - the current state of the team - and compare the actual results to those of the other 31 GMs and teams.  If all Grigson has to do is outperform his early Millen-esque work, it's not a very high standard.

 

We also have to consider if we count Bruce Arians internship as the head coach as part of Pagano's resume. In my opinion, that year doesn't count towards Pagano's successes. Bruce Arians made Pagano look good.

[jameszeigler834]

16 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

This is to expand on a point I made in another topic. I know people here love using the wait and see approach with everything, and think that after another season a lot of our young players will be better, more comfortable in the system, etc...

 

However that's not the case here. You usually know within the first 2 years (unless you're talking about QBs) whether or not a player is going to be really good. If a guy isn't playing "good" by the end of his second season then you're probably looking at at an average or less type player who won't see a second contract. That's what I see with our roster. We've let Grigson off the hook by saying "but his last 2 drafts have been promising " but I don't see it anymore.

 

Now I do think that both Mewhort and Moncrief are great players who have already showed that they can be really good. And Kelly is the future at center. But if we start looking at the guys from the last two drafts it doesn't look as good.

 

Dorsett-I've tried to like this pick but I can't anymore. There's no reason a guy with the tools he had isn't producing. Moncrief is out and he hasn't stepped up. All he does is catch one or two 15-20 yard passes a game but that's it. Bust

 

Parry-He's hit his ceiling and it's not good. While he's better than Chapman he isn't a stout NT. Decent backup but he shouldn't be starting.

 

Good-Extremely overrated by fans. He's been getting worked and had like 2 penalties in the Texans game. He's not the future.

 

D'Joun Smith is already off the team and I won't except injuries or a bad attitude as an excuse because teams usually exercise patience with young guys drafted high.

 

TJ Green hasn't shown anything in coverage but looks like a good run defender. If he doesn't show anything in coverage next year then he was a wasted pick

 

Clark is getting outplayed by Haeg.  I understand his scheme in college was really bad compared to the pro level but we haven't seen anything promising from him

 

Ill admit I liked the Morrison pick at first but he's looked like nothing more than a slow LB who can't cover.

 

Ridgeway hasn't flashed big play potential and had plenty of opportunities the first 4 games with Jones and Anderson out. I'll give him more time but he's trending towards being a Zach Kerr: good depth player.

 

Not much could be expected from Blythe and Bates so I'll leave them alone.

 

But I see good things from Anderson and Geathers but aside from the names I mentioned earlier, no one from these last 2 drafts impresses me and makes me think that we've got plenty of young talent waiting to break out.

You really don't know if a player is a bust until 4 years after they are drafted but I do agree on Dorsett.

[Smoke317]

8 minutes ago, ReMeDy said:

 

We also have to consider if we count Bruce Arians internship as the head coach as part of Pagano's resume. In my opinion, that year doesn't count towards Pagano's successes. Bruce Arians made Pagano look good.

They say it was an ear infection that caused BA to miss that playoff game against the ravens but I really wonder if he wasn't a little angry to have Pagano come back to get the credit for the playoff run and just decided to sit the game out???  I know my conspiracy theories can go overboard lol but I think Chuck should have sat out that full year and let BA finish the job.

[jameszeigler834]

4 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

You really don't know if a player is a bust until 4 years after they are drafted but I do agree on Dorsett.

Also I will say give Ridgeway another year or two remember Kerr wasnt good right off the bat and TJ Green I will give him more time too I think he has played pretty well all things considered Clark give him until next year will see where he is at Morrison has been ok Good he was decent last game gave up a few pressured and had a couple of penalties other than that he was decent Bates was a terrible pick he stinks Maggitt even for an undrafted player hasn't shown me a single thing where ability come in he doesn't really seem to be able to beat pro blockers I was high on the kid but I just don't think he is what we are looking for. Now Rogers has shown ability he looks like he could be an upgrade over Dorsett.

[BOTT]

1 hour ago, jameszeigler834 said:

You really don't know if a player is a bust until 4 years after they are drafted but I do agree on Dorsett.

Sometimes you do.  You could tell Werner was a bust after one season.

[Defjamz26]

9 hours ago, Gavin said:

Seriously relax. every player has a couple bad games a year. He is targeted only 4.5 times per game and catches 3 with only 2 dropped passes on the year. He has caught 18 pf 27 targets with 2 drops

And that's the type of excuses I was talking about. If he was good and really a viable receiving option then he would get more targets. And you can't say "Well our receiving core is loaded" because Moncrief is out and Dorsett isn't taking away targets from him. You know why Hilton gets a lot of targets? Because he's good and produces. If Allen was a good TE who's reliable he'd get more targets.

 

But that's this board in a nutshell. Make 10 million excuses for a guy instead of admitting he's mediocre.

[Defjamz26]

7 hours ago, jameszeigler834 said:

You really don't know if a player is a bust until 4 years after they are drafted but I do agree on Dorsett.

Bust is for 1st round picks mostly. But my cap was for knowing when you have a bonafied good player or just a depth/rotational guy. Either way, it doesn't take 4 years to figure out except with a QB.

 

If you look at the guys around the league who are top 10 at their position, unless they were injured or had an Aron Rodgers situation, they were good their rookie year and by year 2 they were really good. That's not to say they didn't continue to get better but after the 2nd year you saw the play making ability.

[TheRustonRifle#7]

Geez,,,,,

[Gavin]

11 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

And that's the type of excuses I was talking about. If he was good and really a viable receiving option then he would get more targets. And you can't say "Well our receiving core is loaded" because Moncrief is out and Dorsett isn't taking away targets from him. You know why Hilton gets a lot of targets? Because he's good and produces. If Allen was a good TE who's reliable he'd get more targets.

 

But that's this board in a nutshell. Make 10 million excuses for a guy instead of admitting he's mediocre.

That's not how it works and yes sometimes it takes 4 years or more for players to have a break out year. They have to be in the right situation.

[AZColt11]

I'm gonna say I don't get all the hate for Dorsett.  I know what we could have had instead.  But that is not his fault that WE picked him.  Moncrief out is also hurting him IMHO.  I know people thought it would help him but I don't think so.  Now he's being checked by a better CB.  And I don't think he's at that stage in his development yet where he can take on a good CB and just beat them consistently.  I also don't think he's being utilized properly.  He should be in motion more and used in more slants and screens where he can utilize his 4.3 speed.  He is averaging 19.5 ypc and only connecting on 50% of his targets.  This tells me he is running too many deep patterns.  Also, he was hurt most of last year so this is basically an extension of his rookie season.  I don't know how anybody would know if he's a bust or not by this time.  Reg wasn't any good by this time in his career and he wasn't even hurt.  Good thing we didn't go with all the pitchforks and torches mob and run him outta town at this point, eh?  We would be wise to let Dorsett develop and grow too.

[AZColt11]

To add to the above, I went back and compared Wayne and Dorsett thru their first 22 games and it comes out like this:

 

Wayne - 42 catches, 527 yards, 1 TD

Dorsett - 31 catches, 478 yards, 2 TD

 

Now, keep in mind this INCLUDES the 5 games that Dorsett missed last year due to injury.  I don't think he's doing as bad as people think he is.  Again, I think the coaching staff could utilize him better.  But there are signs he has the potential to help us.

[theanarchist]

On 10/18/2016 at 5:55 AM, ReMeDy said:

Depending on your definition of "young," let's give a shout-out to 4th year player Jack Doyle. He is turning into our version of Rob Gronkowski with his sure hands and big frame (6'6" 267 lbs), and unlike Gronk, he isn't a spoiled 8-yr trapped in a man's body!

Boom, love Doyle!. But, he's not a downfield threat like Gronk. But he is a great blocker and he's becoming a good receiver. He's outplaying Dwayne Allen and I'm glad he's getting a chance.

 

[Gavin]

17 minutes ago, theanarchist said:

Boom, love Doyle!. But, he's not a downfield threat like Gronk. But he is a great blocker and he's becoming a good receiver. He's outplaying Dwayne Allen and I'm glad he's getting a chance.

 

Both have played well receiving. Both have struggled blocking

[tfunky14]

really

 

See A. Morrison

[Colt.45]

11 hours ago, Stephen said:

I would have liked to see green at wr. With his speed and height he'd probably be a beast.

 

 

That's not how it works.

[Jdubu]

20 hours ago, digroute88 said:

There have been way too many reaches in the draft . Polian was not one too reach much .

To name polian reaches off the top of my head

1. Morris

2. Gonzales

3. Hughes 

4. Brown

 

could argue that Addai and Jackson as well to a smaller degree but these guys gave us some good production. As for Polian, did he ever hit on a third round pick ever? Polian gets a pass for his body of work during Buffalo and even in Carolina and his early years here but there is no question, he got worse as time went by and allowed his son to do the job jimmy was paying him to do. Had polian not had Manning here, he wouldn't have been the GM here nearly as long because we seen how bad the team was once Manning went down. 

[theanarchist]

51 minutes ago, Gavin said:

Both have played well receiving. Both have struggled blocking

Allen had one good game receiving against chicago. He was terrible against Jacksonville but then again so were most of the other receivers. Allen is too inconsistent in my opinion.

[Jason_]

14 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

Doyle is better than Allen but again if we're talking great players I don't see that with him, especially not our own version of Gronk. He's a solid TE. Allen is a trash one season wonder who gets more excuses made for him than Trump by his supporters. 

 

And with that comment, anyone who gave even the slightest credence to your opinion should have just seen the light.

[Defjamz26]

52 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

And with that comment, anyone who gave even the slightest credence to your opinion should have just seen the light.

Lol you guys overrate every player on here. Go ahead and keep waiting for Allen to return to his rookie year form just like everyone waited for Addai to get back to his.

 

Allen ain't no threat. Especially if an UDFA is outplaying him. Dwayne Allen becoming a top TE in the league is a pipe dream.

[theanarchist]

Just now, Defjamz26 said:

Lol you guys overrate every player on here. Go ahead and keep waiting for Allen to return to his rookie year form just like everyone waited for Addai to get back to his.

 

Allen ain't no threat. Especially if an UDFA is outplaying him. Dwayne Allen becoming a top TE in the league is a pipe dream.

I would have to agree with you