What did ya'll think of haeg and goode on the right side?

[GoColts8818]

12 hours ago, VaAllDay757 said:

I think haeg has some things to clean up but he will get it eventually 

I think you are right.  This is what comes with playing rookies they are learning so they will have games where they struggle but if you survive that it normally pays off for years to come.

[jameszeigler834]

10 hours ago, dudeski said:

Why would you have that?

 

reitz is better. Haeg has a brighter future 

Reitz is a piece of crap people were going around him lie he wasn't even trying out there atleast Haeg is giving some effort Kelly and Haeg are both rookies give them a few years to develop.

[achcolts]

I like what I saw from the oline as a whole.. Andrew was gettin nice time most snaps

[VaAllDay757]

10 hours ago, ColtJ82 said:

I thought he had some nice plays today (some bad ones too). What do you think about him at RT over Joe R?

 

I think haeg will take the job eventually chuck wanted to see those guys start together which is good thing

[GoColts8818]

4 minutes ago, achcolts said:

I like what I saw from the oline as a whole.. Andrew was gettin nice time most snaps

giving up five sacks to a team that had gotten just six all year to that point is too much for me to say the line played well.

[Valpo2004]

Seems like it was feast or famine.  

 

Either Luck would have great protection or someone would miss an assignment and he'd have a guy in his face as soon as he snapped the ball.  

 

That having been said, they where not exactly facing some top NFL pass rushers.  

[OffensivelyPC]

Haeg is physically so outmatched right now.  It's hard to imagine him being more than a backup.  

[Archangel]

IMOP You have a rookie at RT in only his 2nd game did pretty good in the first half, Good at RG who was basically playing in his 3rd game got beat on a couple of stunts and a center who is also a rookie. Kelly will be able to eventually help the line by pointing out were the blitz are coming from, this in turn will help the line pick it up and help luck. Good and Haeg need a couple more games together and practices in order to feel each other weakness and strength. Now that said in the 2nd half the colts got away from the run game when the QB drops back 50 times during the game and starts throwing routes of 15 to 20 yards and is holding the ball 6 to 8 seconds what would you expect. The bears were coming after luck in the second half with blitz after blitz and luck did not use his hot routes or draw plays and or any screens. Do not know who you fault for that but I do know the first half the holes were open and the line was protecting. The 2nd half the run disappeared the Bears blitzed and stunted and the colts did not adjust. So I am not going to go after the line for what I saw a very good performance in the first half. If their is no adjustments.   

[achcolts]

4 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

giving up five sacks to a team that had gotten just six all year to that point is too much for me to say the line played well.

 

Right, was expecting someone to point this out. Werent those sacks mainly on blitzes or when luck couldn't find an open receiver? Going off memory so could be totally wrong. 

 

Either way, aside from those, it seemed like he had a good pocket and time to go through his reads.

[throwing BBZ]

Andrew was running all over the place because Good had trouble all game long.
He is too slow to get out on screens or to pull or trap.
 Lard___ needs to prove he can pass and run block at 330 lbs. MAX!!!
This is on Grigs and Chuck for not busting his chops by training camp if not sooner.
 A Proud member of Chuckies failed Eating school of Chapman, Hughes, Thornton & Good.
  At his size he could Easily drop 15lbs in a month and 25lbs by Christmas. A BIG disappointment.
   Yes Haig looked like a Rookie and is at best a tossup compared to a not so good Reitz.
  Chuckie will go with Reitz ASAP. He Lives for his Vets. I`m just enjoying our $5.25M ol' ILB.

[GoColts8818]

6 minutes ago, achcolts said:

 

Right, was expecting someone to point this out. Werent those sacks mainly on blitzes or when luck couldn't find an open receiver? Going off memory so could be totally wrong. 

 

Either way, aside from those, it seemed like he had a good pocket and time to go through his reads.

Atleast one was just a flat out miss with Haeg.

 

Still, I agree there were bright spots to be seen with the line which is why I think the answer is there for the line but it's going to take time for them to develop.  Unfortunately that means we are going to see good play mixed with bad play.

 

Still, even with the bright spots I am not going to say they had a game when they let a team almost double their season sack total in one game.

[JPFolks]

15 hours ago, ColtJ82 said:

I thought he had some nice plays today (some bad ones too). What do you think about him at RT over Joe R?

 

I thought it was very telling because I saw Reitz in on a few special plays, but it appears as I predicted that Haeg has overcome Reitz at RT.  That said, both Haeg and Good played poorly in pass coverage against average rushers.  I saw Haeg get lit up about and badly as any play this season (he was literally just blasted backwards, in the air and off his feet as his man crushed Luck all in about 2 steps... it was brutal.  Good was a sieve all day long.  He is not the answer at RG.  Haeg really shouldn't be playing this soon either, but I think he's an eventual RT in this league and likely is planned to take that job long term if he can get it together.  That leaves RG as still the biggest problem on Offense.  Exactly the same as all off season.  Even after using 4 draft picks, Grigson hasn't plugged the hole sufficiently.  But in terms of Haeg, as I predicted, he seems to be taking that job at RT, even sooner than I thought.  I think they are desperate to make Good work at RG, because they want long term solutions and Reitz who I think would likely be better still at RT or RG isn't a long term answer for anything.  Harrison isn't either.  Blythe looks like a career backup at most.  Clark looks more and more like a bust.  Haeg for now is the man along with Kelly.  TJ Green is the best defender.  They look like our 3 best draft picks from this year.  The jury is out on our DT and LB.  

[COLTS449]

I like him better at RG. But I think he will develop into a pretty good RT if that's the plan.

[jskinnz]

4 hours ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Reitz is a piece of crap people were going around him lie he wasn't even trying out there atleast Haeg is giving some effort Kelly and Haeg are both rookies give them a few years to develop.

 

Once again some beautiful insight even with the dramatic issues of grammar and spelling. 

 

The idea of calling anyone a "piece of crap" because they don't play football good enough for you is comical at best, completely asinine at worst.  And the notion that Reitz is not giving effort is just nonsense.  He is obviously lacking in some physical tools but effort is not a problem.  Hell, effort is what has him in the league in the first place.

[MTC]

Haeg hasn't played that good, but he's a rookie from a FCS school.. so I'll give him a pass.

[cbear]

15 hours ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Breaking Down OL tape was my job for nearly 10 years so I do it every week

 What team did you work for? 

[MTC]

I still believe Colts should start Reitz at RG and Good at RT. It worked well last season.

[Jdubu]

1 hour ago, JPFolks said:

I thought it was very telling because I saw Reitz in on a few special plays, but it appears as I predicted that Haeg has overcome Reitz at RT.  That said, both Haeg and Good played poorly in pass coverage against average rushers.  I saw Haeg get lit up about and badly as any play this season (he was literally just blasted backwards, in the air and off his feet as his man crushed Luck all in about 2 steps... it was brutal.  Good was a sieve all day long.  He is not the answer at RG.  Haeg really shouldn't be playing this soon either, but I think he's an eventual RT in this league and likely is planned to take that job long term if he can get it together.  That leaves RG as still the biggest problem on Offense.  Exactly the same as all off season.  Even after using 4 draft picks, Grigson hasn't plugged the hole sufficiently.  But in terms of Haeg, as I predicted, he seems to be taking that job at RT, even sooner than I thought.  I think they are desperate to make Good work at RG, because they want long term solutions and Reitz who I think would likely be better still at RT or RG isn't a long term answer for anything.  Harrison isn't either.  Blythe looks like a career backup at most.  Clark looks more and more like a bust.  Haeg for now is the man along with Kelly.  TJ Green is the best defender.  They look like our 3 best draft picks from this year.  The jury is out on our DT and LB.  

"Clark looks like a bust". Seriously, the team knew this guy wasn't starting at all this year and that he had to get a lot of technical things down before playing in the NFL but seen his upside as too much too pass up. If he isn't an option to fill in for next season as a swing tackle guy and perhaps as a starter in year 3, then you can say he looks like a bust but in no uncertain terms did this team expect anything from him this season so your response to this guy is ridiculous. As for Blythe, where was he picked? Udfa I believe. Man you act like these guys should come in here and operate like a 5 years starter or they are busts. This team and draft class will be judged in 3-4 years as to bad avg good or great but Kelly and Tj Green have been solid as have a couple others playing for the first time. I'm satisfied with the draft picks at this point. 

[Jdubu]

59 minutes ago, MTC said:

I still believe Colts should start Reitz at RG and Good at RT. It worked well last season.

I too think Good should be at the RT spot but they have to see better potential in Haeg at that spot or they would have tried Haeg at RG instead. I think at this juncture, you leave Reitz as the swing guy and let him fully heal in case we have to use him later in the season due to injury or a player just hitting a wall as a rookie. 

[jbaron04]

I think the oline with heag and goode was ok I seem some good things and some not so good things but some of them sacks was because luck holds the ball to long. But I think we will be better on the oline 

[jskinnz]

2 hours ago, JPFolks said:

I thought it was very telling because I saw Reitz in on a few special plays, but it appears as I predicted that Haeg has overcome Reitz at RT.  That said, both Haeg and Good played poorly in pass coverage against average rushers.  I saw Haeg get lit up about and badly as any play this season (he was literally just blasted backwards, in the air and off his feet as his man crushed Luck all in about 2 steps... it was brutal.  Good was a sieve all day long.  He is not the answer at RG.  Haeg really shouldn't be playing this soon either, but I think he's an eventual RT in this league and likely is planned to take that job long term if he can get it together.  That leaves RG as still the biggest problem on Offense.  Exactly the same as all off season.  Even after using 4 draft picks, Grigson hasn't plugged the hole sufficiently.  But in terms of Haeg, as I predicted, he seems to be taking that job at RT, even sooner than I thought.  I think they are desperate to make Good work at RG, because they want long term solutions and Reitz who I think would likely be better still at RT or RG isn't a long term answer for anything.  Harrison isn't either.  Blythe looks like a career backup at most.  Clark looks more and more like a bust.  Haeg for now is the man along with Kelly.  TJ Green is the best defender.  They look like our 3 best draft picks from this year.  The jury is out on our DT and LB.  

 

Dear God...

 

Your Clark take was discussed last week and it was silly then and not any less silly this week.  

Follow me here - they knew full well that he needed to be developed this year.  And I firmly believed they hope for him to be inactive all season if injuries make that possible.  Saying he looks more and more like a bust at this point is just, well.... silly.  Or complete nonsense.  Or pure bovine excrement - whichever best fits.   

[JPFolks]

1 hour ago, jskinnz said:

 

Once again some beautiful insight even with the dramatic issues of grammar and spelling. 

 

The idea of calling anyone a "piece of crap" because they don't play football good enough for you is comical at best, completely asinine at worst.  And the notion that Reitz is not giving effort is just nonsense.  He is obviously lacking in some physical tools but effort is not a problem.  Hell, effort is what has him in the league in the first place.

I agree... Reitz went to my high school and didn't even play Football (and it's a football school).  For a basketball player he's carved out a nice NFL career.  He was never really meant to be a regular starter but desperation put him there. Haeg is still rough especially since he dealt with early injuries, but it may be our best option in the long run to roll with him and keep Reitz ready to fill in wherever the next inevitable injury happens.

[JPFolks]

47 minutes ago, Jdubu said:

"Clark looks like a bust". Seriously, the team knew this guy wasn't starting at all this year and that he had to get a lot of technical things down before playing in the NFL but seen his upside as too much too pass up. If he isn't an option to fill in for next season as a swing tackle guy and perhaps as a starter in year 3, then you can say he looks like a bust but in no uncertain terms did this team expect anything from him this season so your response to this guy is ridiculous. As for Blythe, where was he picked? Udfa I believe. Man you act like these guys should come in here and operate like a 5 years starter or they are busts. This team and draft class will be judged in 3-4 years as to bad avg good or great but Kelly and Tj Green have been solid as have a couple others playing for the first time. I'm satisfied with the draft picks at this point. 

We started 3 rookies on the o-line including a 5th and 7th rounder playing out of position... If our third rounder can't compete with a near Mr. Irrelevant playing out of position, then he looks more and more like a bust.  Projects with that level of ineptitude in that dire if a situation are usually late round picks not 3rd rounders. Did I say he was definitely a bust? No. So don't misquote me or take it out of context.

[JPFolks]

23 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

 

Dear God...

 

Your Clark take was discussed last week and it was silly then and not any less silly this week.  

Follow me here - they knew full well that he needed to be developed this year.  And I firmly believed they hope for him to be inactive all season if injuries make that possible.  Saying he looks more and more like a bust at this point is just, well.... silly.  Or complete nonsense.  Or pure bovine excrement - whichever best fits.   

When they started Blythe at RG and moved Haeg to RT out of pure desperation (and I believe Clark was the only healthy lineman) then it is clear he's looking more and more like a bust.  He's a 3rd round pick, not a 7th round project.  Good God, Blythe has been garbage since day 1, but rather than putting Clark in a RT, and keeping Haeg in at RG, they used a guy a few picks away from Mr. Irrelevant, our 3rd team center, to start.  That illustrates just how inept and currently unqualified Clark is to even step foot on the field in the most desperate circumstance.  I don't recall them saying "Clark will not be capable of playing this year even when we're totally decimated down to our last healthy lineman, he'll still be the guy who sits out" when they drafted him in the 3rd round.  If Haeg continues to grow, he'll be the RT and Clark, if he remains on the team at all (look at all the lost picks by Grigson including many 'projects') he'll be a career backup or playing for someone else.  But I didn't say he was definitely a bust, I said he was looking more and more like one.  If you can't see that, the excrement you talk about is on you. 

[Superman]

13 hours ago, Gavin said:

Haeg also looked like he got caught up on the balls of his feet which lead to a sack early in the 4th quarter. What would you do if you were the coach? Leave him in and let him grow or put Reitz back in? I would think  Reitz would be better in the short term particularly for Lucks health but the way he has played this year I don't know. Haeg is the future I think but again that's causing Luck to be under a lot of duress and take abuse. I'd probably just leave Haeg in but that's clearly more an indictment of Reitz play this year than more so than anything to do with Haeg

 

Yeah he was off balance at times. He also just got plain overpowered other times. 

[jskinnz]

3 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

When they started Blythe at RG and moved Haeg to RT out of pure desperation (and I believe Clark was the only healthy lineman) then it is clear he's looking more and more like a bust.  He's a 3rd round pick, not a 7th round project.  Good God, Blythe has been garbage since day 1, but rather than putting Clark in a RT, and keeping Haeg in at RG, they used a guy a few picks away from Mr. Irrelevant, our 3rd team center, to start.  That illustrates just how inept and currently unqualified Clark is to even step foot on the field in the most desperate circumstance.  I don't recall them saying "Clark will not be capable of playing this year even when we're totally decimated down to our last healthy lineman, he'll still be the guy who sits out" when they drafted him in the 3rd round.  If Haeg continues to grow, he'll be the RT and Clark, if he remains on the team at all (look at all the lost picks by Grigson including many 'projects') he'll be a career backup or playing for someone else.  But I didn't say he was definitely a bust, I said he was looking more and more like one.  If you can't see that, the excrement you talk about is on you. 

 

I am not sure how I can say this any differently.  What they are currently doing with Clark is all part of the plan.  Saying he looks more and more like a bust when this what was expected is premature at best and frankly, just wrong.  

 

Follow me here.  The college game is getting miles and miles away from how the NFL is played which describes exactly what Clark was in at TTU.  There is a developmental period for all players but especially the guys up front who come from the college spread-type systems.  But Clark has measurables along with athleticism that warranted a higher selection even with his waiting period and "Do Not Open Until 2017" label.  

 

I think he and Green also represent a different draft strategy from Grigson with speed and athleticism being weighted more heavily in their player projections than what they showed on tape.   

 

In other words, you are at least 365 days from being able to try and make this argument, but even then it might still be too soon.

[Jdubu]

38 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

We started 3 rookies on the o-line including a 5th and 7th rounder playing out of position... If our third rounder can't compete with a near Mr. Irrelevant playing out of position, then he looks more and more like a bust.  Projects with that level of ineptitude in that dire if a situation are usually late round picks not 3rd rounders. Did I say he was definitely a bust? No. So don't misquote me or take it out of context.

Sometimes the later round guys surprise you and just work out better initially. Now, I'm not a very big fan of picking players in the third round unless they are starters or should be at least capable of filling in here and there. Saying that, this scouting team and the coaches had to see something really good in the guy to basically say we will take a redshirt flyer on him and get him coached up and get stronger over his first season. IMO, you can't even judge him nearing anything resembling a bust yet. He was tagged as a project (right or wrong). 3rd rd is kinda high for that IMO but I will give him another offseason and a preseason workout before casting an opinion. 

[JPFolks]

22 hours ago, jskinnz said:

 

I am not sure how I can say this any differently.  What they are currently doing with Clark is all part of the plan.  Saying he looks more and more like a bust when this what was expected is premature at best and frankly, just wrong.  

 

Follow me here.  The college game is getting miles and miles away from how the NFL is played which describes exactly what Clark was in at TTU.  There is a developmental period for all players but especially the guys up front who come from the college spread-type systems.  But Clark has measurables along with athleticism that warranted a higher selection even with his waiting period and "Do Not Open Until 2017" label.  

 

I think he and Green also represent a different draft strategy from Grigson with speed and athleticism being weighted more heavily in their player projections than what they showed on tape.   

 

In other words, you are at least 365 days from being able to try and make this argument, but even then it might still be too soon.

You say all this as if Clark is in a unique vacuum.  We have 4 rookie linemen.  3 have started. They had enough talent not only to start, but in two cases, as lower draft picks (meaning everyone else in the league felt they were no better than where we picked them) playing new positions they didn't play in college.  If they can step up and start and learn a brand new position, there is zero excuse for Clark.  Playing line is playing line.  That is why these guys are starting up and down the line even though there's significant differences between Guard and Tackle in the NFL (not to mention Center where Blythe was still 3rd team).  If these other guys can learn entirely new positions on a moment's notice with almost no warning, there is no reason this far into the season that Clark can't step up and play his natural position that he's played since PreSeason.  What you seem to be saying is he is simply too dumb to learn his own position (let alone other spots on the line) compared to lower picks who step up anywhere we need them with a play's notice.  He's not a QB, even though we are seeing rookie QB's (why ironically were also not supposed to play this year, such as Wentz and Prescott) playing a dramatically tougher position (and in Dak's case as a lower pick than Clark) and who are flourishing.  Maybe in a perfect world none of these rookies except for Kelly would have started, but we needed them and they have stepped up, with one exception., Clark.  The guy obviously is not good enough or smart enough as a football player to step up and help the team.  At best picking him was a tremendous over-reach and Haeg in particular was a massive steal.  Haeg is dramatically better than Clark (he has been since pre-season) and unless he gets hurt or regresses, he's the starting RT of the future and in the end Clark will be a bust.  Call it whatever you want, but you have it wrong if you ignore all of the above.  

[JPFolks]

22 hours ago, Jdubu said:

Sometimes the later round guys surprise you and just work out better initially. Now, I'm not a very big fan of picking players in the third round unless they are starters or should be at least capable of filling in here and there. Saying that, this scouting team and the coaches had to see something really good in the guy to basically say we will take a redshirt flyer on him and get him coached up and get stronger over his first season. IMO, you can't even judge him nearing anything resembling a bust yet. He was tagged as a project (right or wrong). 3rd rd is kinda high for that IMO but I will give him another offseason and a preseason workout before casting an opinion. 

Jd, think about who you are talking about.  Grigson has had huge numbers of busts.  There's nothing to support they brilliantly see something correctly about Clark.  It is far more likely he's a disappointment and in the end will be another high profile bust.  

[jskinnz]

1 minute ago, JPFolks said:

You say all this as if Clark is in a unique vacuum.  We have 4 rookie linemen.  3 have started. They had enough talent not only to start, but in two cases, as lower draft picks (meaning everyone else in the league felt they were no better than where we picked them) playing new positions they didn't play in college.  If they can step up and start and learn a brand new position, there is zero excuse for Clark.  Playing line is playing line.  That is why these guys are starting up and down the line even though there's significant differences between Guard and Tackle in the NFL (not to mention Center where Blythe was still 3rd team).  If these other guys can learn entirely new positions on a moment's notice with almost no warning, there is no reason this far into the season that Clark can't step up and play his natural position that he's played since PreSeason.  What you seem to be saying is he is simply too dumb to learn his own position (let alone other spots on the line) compared to lower picks who step up anywhere we need them with a play's notice.  He's not a QB, even though we are seeing rookie QB's (why ironically were also not supposed to play this year, such as Wentz and Prescott) playing a dramatically tougher position (and in Dak's case as a lower pick than Clark) and who are flourishing.  Maybe in a perfect world none of these rookies except for Kelly would have started, but we needed them and they have stepped up, with one exception., Clark.  The guy obviously is not good enough or smart enough as a football player to step up and help the team.  At best picking him was a tremendous over-reach and Haeg in particular was a massive steal.  Haeg is dramatically better than Clark (he has been since pre-season) and unless he gets hurt or regresses, he's the starting RT of the future and in the end Clark will be a bust.  Call it whatever you want, but you have it wrong if you ignore all of the above.  

 

Dear God...

 

You wrote a lot of words - not much of them made sense but you sure wrote a lot.

 

The idea that Clark is a bust or on his way to being a bust 5 game into his rookie season is a comically flawed argument.  That is my basic premise and it is not wrong.  Nor is the assertion that this apparently "lost" season for Clark unexpected. 

[JPFolks]

3 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

 

Dear God...

 

You wrote a lot of words - not much of them made sense but you sure wrote a lot.

 

The idea that Clark is a bust or on his way to being a bust 5 game into his rookie season is a comically flawed argument.  That is my basic premise and it is not wrong.  Nor is the assertion that this apparently "lost" season for Clark unexpected. 

Grigson's long history of picking busts makes this look pretty typical.  People don't hide away linemen that are picked in the 3rd to develop them.  What you seem to be saying is he should be on the practice squad because he is incapable of actually playing this year for an NFL team.  I played lineman enough to know, in the end, either you can block the man in front of you or not.  The only thing to learn is which lineman you're assigned to.  If he had 3rd round raw talent, that means he can block NFL talent.  If we're 5 weeks into the season and he's too dumb to learn who to block, he's looking more like a bust.   If he can't play, put him on the practice squad.  Bust-Happy Grigson is the last guy to trust that he got it right.  

[Steamboat_Shaun]

I dunno, a lot of people are bashing the line this week, but I saw a lot of this going on... great pocket, but either guys not getting open downfield, or Luck just holding on for a split second too long. This is an obvious passing down, and the line honestly couldn't have done their job any better, especially considering that they didn't even get a holding penalty.