To give a little perspective on Denver's D (found on Stampedeblue comments)

[PeterBowman]

Here's the comparison for how Cam Newton and Luck did against Denver so far this year.............yes their D is that good....but it also helps they played both the Colts and Panthers at home.

 

Luck vs. Newton

For some perspective (from Reddit).

Against Denver
Newton 54.5% 194 yds 1 TD 1 INT
Luck 52.5% 197 yds 1 TD 1 INT

Against Detriot/SF:
Newton 60% 353 yds 4 TD 1 Int
Luck 66% 385 yds 4 TD 0 Int

 

[masterlock]

15 minutes ago, PeterBowman said:

Here's the comparison for how Cam Newton and Luck did against Denver so far this year.............yes their D is that good....but it also helps they played both the Colts and Panthers at home.

 

Luck vs. Newton

For some perspective (from Reddit).

Against Denver
Newton 54.5% 194 yds 1 TD 1 INT
Luck 52.5% 197 yds 1 TD 1 INT

Against Detriot/SF:
Newton 60% 353 yds 4 TD 1 Int
Luck 66% 385 yds 4 TD 0 Int

 

Yeah, to all the people criticizing Luck, it's easy to forget how ridiculous this Denver D is--it's a friggin' Super Bowl D, for god's sake.

[RockThatBlue]

Denvers defense is legendary. If they win another super bowl this year they will be up there with the 85 bears. 

[21isSuperman]

@Gabriel Alexander Morillo you might want to take a look at this

[bayone]

pointed out same stats post game on nfl network & announcers defended Luck & team for staying in the game so long and keeping Broncos out of endzone on offense save 1

 

Mille never sacked Luck before, announcer in game was right at beginning, then recanted

 

Heres a stat  

 . 

 

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

2 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

@Gabriel Alexander Morillo you might want to take a look at this

Why? I don't think I really criticized Luck for playing badly. 

 

That being said, Luck buffed his completion percentage and yards with all those crappy dinks after the game was literally over and we were down by 14.  

 

IIRC Carolina lost on a fg attempt after Cam put them into a position to go up by two and win the game. So Cam didn't get those easy dinks at the end of a lost game. 

 

I also don't understand why anyone, including you, are forcing this Cam/Luck comparison. They're completely different players in completely different situations. 

[PeterBowman]

and also remember Carolina has an upper tier running game too.

[21isSuperman]

2 minutes ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

Why? I don't think I really criticized Luck for playing badly. 

 

That being said, Luck buffed his completion percentage and yards with all those crappy dinks after the game was literally over and we were down by 14.  

 

IIRC Carolina lost on a fg attempt after Cam put them into a position to go up by two and win the game. So Cam didn't get those easy dinks at the end of a lost game. 

 

I also don't understand why anyone, including you, are forcing this Cam/Luck comparison. They're completely different players in completely different situations. 

Apologies.  I tagged the wrong person.

 

@Jared Cisneros, you should take a look at this

[Superman]

That being the case -- and it's a legitimate point -- the gameplan and play calling were generally awful yesterday. Seeing the Broncos make plays doesn't bug me, because they're really good, but the offense missed a bunch of opportunities. 

[crazycolt1]

3 minutes ago, PeterBowman said:

and also remember Carolina has an upper tier running game too.

Not to over look their pretty good defense too.

[krunk]

8 minutes ago, Superman said:

That being the case -- and it's a legitimate point -- the gameplan and play calling were generally awful yesterday. Seeing the Broncos make plays doesn't bug me, because they're really good, but the offense missed a bunch of opportunities. 

I feel the same exact way.  We could have blessed the scoreboard more than we did yesterday if we did things the right way.  Too many wasted throws downfield when we could have gained good yardage on some short throws and check downs that were available.  Some of the crossing routes we dropped the football.  Make more usage of the running backs in the passing game.   As I saw you mention earlier, the screen game was under utilized.  Ferguson could be deadly on those screens if he'd quit falling down all the time!  We gotta mix it up.....

[WoolMagnet]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

That being the case -- and it's a legitimate point -- the gameplan and play calling were generally awful yesterday. Seeing the Broncos make plays doesn't bug me, because they're really good, but the offense missed a bunch of opportunities. 

Luck had guys open but needed literally a second more time. I attribute that more to denver's pass rush that our OL. Also, our "rush" on many occasions were a second from getting to their QB. I attribute this to our lack of pass rush and also the fact that we have guys off the street in our secondary.

the comparison between luck and cam is justified, imo, because they both played denver, in denver.  Funny how cams and lucks stats are so similar.  Inwish andrew had that defense right now.  I believe we'd be 2-0. Its kind of obvious to me.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

Our line looked fine for the majority of plays. There were just no quick throw options, and that is nonsensical game planning against a team like Denver 

[dgambill]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

That being the case -- and it's a legitimate point -- the gameplan and play calling were generally awful yesterday. Seeing the Broncos make plays doesn't bug me, because they're really good, but the offense missed a bunch of opportunities. 

I was begging for the offense to keep running the ball and to get the ball out to our TEs and RBs. The weakest part of that defense is the safeties and LBs in coverage. TJ Ward can be exploited in coverage along with Marshall. If we could have forced them to play a little zone or slow down that pass rush....TY and Dorsett were coming open just we didn't have time to get it out to them. As soon as you abandon the running game and let Von and company tee off its over....especially if your not going to put a TE in tight to force Von to line up inside or to chip on him. Carolina did this early on in the game and Cam had some success. They would force Von inside where he had OL help from the guard....but when they tried to open it up late...and they went 1-1 that's when Von wins. Why we think Reitz can handle him 1-1 the whole game I don't know. And why we gave up on the running game when it was still a 1 score game through most of the second half I don't understand....those 3 yd runs are important against a team like Denver...you have to wear them down and force them to be honest. What things were you seeing I'm curious?

[krunk]

11 minutes ago, Superman said:

That being the case -- and it's a legitimate point -- the gameplan and play calling were generally awful yesterday. Seeing the Broncos make plays doesn't bug me, because they're really good, but the offense missed a bunch of opportunities. 

I think we'd do a better job if we played them again.  Especially with how we chose to block them.  Just can't leave those tackles on an island so much.  We've got the people to do it. Gotta make some adjustments to the strategy.

[krunk]

I don't know how far that Simien is going to get Denver though.  He's only okay to me if that.  Has to be able to put more points on the board.

[Defjamz26]

9 minutes ago, krunk said:

I feel the same exact way.  We could have blessed the scoreboard more than we did yesterday if we did things the right way.  Too many wasted throws downfield when we could have gained good yardage on some short throws and check downs that were available.  Some of the crossing routes we dropped the football.  Make more usage of the running backs in the passing game.   As I saw you mention earlier, the screen game was under utilized.  Ferguson could be deadly on those screens if he'd quit falling down all the time!  We gotta mix it up.....

Isn't that always the story with the Colts though? Missed opportunities, not executing, etc... We just lost the game doing Colts things. There was no "factor " that lead to that loss I'm afraid.

[snkdy]

Rodgers is probably the best QB in the NFL and he only passed for 77 yards against that defense last season. 

[bayone]

2 minutes ago, krunk said:

I don't know how far that Simien is going to get Denver though.  He's only okay to me if that.  Has to be able to put more points on the board.

 

he does fine between the 30's he can make a drive, but when he gets close to scoring a td he tends to hold ball longer and well just not as decisive

 

i thought announcer made an interesting point that he twice got intercepted, 1 per game on thros near line od scrimmage like butler did yesterday

 

 

[krunk]

4 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Isn't that always the story with the Colts though? Missed opportunities, not executing, etc... We just lost the game doing Colts things. There was no "factor " that lead to that loss I'm afraid.

That pick 6 killed pretty much everything. You're right that's typical Colts Stuff

 

And then choosing to block Miller 1 on 1 on the final drive was typical Colts Stuff too.

 

But I see small progress.  As aggressive as Andrew played a game like this last year would have produced about 4 picks from Andrew.  Hopefully Philbin  learned about the blocking scheme in this one and makes the proper changes.

[Malakai432]

Many are complaining about Luck, some trolls stating he is the problem must've not seen how Rodgers played against Minnesota!?  Yes, good QBs can play like turtle crap against an elite defense. 

[krunk]

4 minutes ago, bayone said:

 

he does fine between the 30's he can make a drive, but when he gets close to scoring a td he tends to hold ball longer and well just not as decisive

 

i thought announcer made an interesting point that he twice got intercepted, 1 per game on thros near line od scrimmage like butler did yesterday

 

 

Keep in mind he was playing our backups to the backups and doing that stuff.  I think at some point this year he'll have a pretty bad game and they'll replace him with Paxton Lynch.  Just my gut feeling!  Demariyous Thomas was already on an article on NFL.com talking about they need to score more points.  If the production keeps remaining low and they lose a game or two(could be sunday against cincy maybe) I think they may call the Sand Man out for him. Just my take on the issue.

[krunk]

3 minutes ago, Malakai432 said:

Many are complaining about Luck, some trolls stating he is the problem must've not seen how Rodgers played against Minnesota!?  Yes, good QBs can play like turtle crap against an elite defense. 

I've noticed over the last 2 or 3 years Aaron Rodgers plays like crap against an Elite Defense.   Especially when San Fran had Patrick Willis and some of the other guys they always shut down A. Rodgers.  Denver has made him look bad as well as Minnesota.

[1959Colts]

To be honest... I'm sick of hearing how awesome Denver's defense is.

Fact is, the Colts have been just plain awful so far this season.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

6 minutes ago, krunk said:

I've noticed over the last 2 or 3 years Aaron Rodgers plays like crap against an Elite Defense.   Especially when San Fran had Patrick Willis and some of the other guys they always shut down A. Rodgers.  Denver has made him look bad as well as Minnesota.

Rodgers has no heart. Looking at his performances when he has chances to lead game winning drives, he just can't will it to happen. It took a Steelers team that shot themselves in the foot, hands, back, face, etc for him to get a Superbowl. 

 

He's a Pecho Frio. 

[Defjamz26]

20 minutes ago, krunk said:

That pick 6 killed pretty much everything. You're right that's typical Colts Stuff

 

And then choosing to block Miller 1 on 1 on the final drive was typical Colts Stuff too.

 

But I see small progress.  As aggressive as Andrew played a game like this last year would have produced about 4 picks from Andrew.  Hopefully Philbin  learned about the blocking scheme in this one and makes the proper changes.

I mean INTs and pick 6s are bad but I don't necessarily put the blame on Andrew or even on Philbin. I think sometimes because of how poorly our team plays we forget that Andrew is allowed to make mistakes. Philbin is new so I don't blame the blocking on him. I blame it on Chudzinski who called the play. As an OC you always need to have a plan for Miller.

 

But again, it's not really a one person blame game. It's kind of just become of the nature of this team to not consistently play good football. If anyone should shoulder a significant portion of the blame it's the GM. Granted we usually beat the Broncos, but a team that lacks elite players isn't going to beat a team that has several.

[Superman]

34 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

needed literally a second more time

 

I'm not sure if you're aware of what you're asking for. That's a big request in the NFL. 

 

IMO, Luck needed to get rid of the ball, and the play calling needed to account for the team's shortcomings. Good coaches try to minimize weaknesses and maximize strengths. I feel like Chud didn't do that at all. 

[Malakai432]

Just now, krunk said:

I've noticed over the last 2 or 3 years Aaron Rodgers plays like crap against an Elite Defense.   Especially when San Fran had Patrick Willis and some of the other guys they always shut down A. Rodgers.  Denver has made him look bad as well as Minnesota.

 

Yeah I think there were multiple games where he played pretty bad last year, Min, Den, Det (35-61 comp), Az, Chicago and even some of the wins vs St Louis, Oakland ect. 

 

I think us as Colts fans have been spoiled over the years.  That being said I really don't feel to confident about this current team, coaching staff/management ect.  I really hope they can turn things around next week.

 

[krunk]

11 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

I mean INTs and pick 6s are bad but I don't necessarily put the blame on Andrew or even on Philbin. I think sometimes because of how poorly our team plays we forget that Andrew is allowed to make mistakes. Philbin is new so I don't blame the blocking on him. I blame it on Chudzinski who called the play. As an OC you always need to have a plan for Miller.

 

But again, it's not really a one person blame game. It's kind of just become of the nature of this team to not consistently play good football. If anyone should shoulder a significant portion of the blame it's the GM. Granted we usually beat the Broncos, but a team that lacks elite players isn't going to beat a team that has several.

I don't think it came down to Elite vs Non Elite players overall as far as that Denver game.  It had some bearing, but I think we should have and could have won.  We had that game right in our grasps late in the 4th quarter.  What it came down to really for the whole game in my opinion(because I think we should have scored more) was execution and how we chose to approach the defense that was presented in a lot of cases.  There were some game planning and coaching mistakes made out there.  Miller hasn't been the only person beating Joe Reitz to the punch.  He's been getting beat the entire preseason and into the regular season!  I really think they had no business leaving him alone.  But I must admit even after that play on the very next drive we tried to block/chip Miller with a tight end first and then had Reitz help out and he ran around both of them so...................,

[Superman]

43 minutes ago, krunk said:

I think we'd do a better job if we played them again.  Especially with how we chose to block them.  Just can't leave those tackles on an island so much.  We've got the people to do it. Gotta make some adjustments to the strategy.

 

If not for Miller ending that last drive, I thought the offense might do something... All they had to do was chip him, and Luck might have made a play.

[krunk]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

If not for Miller ending that last drive, I thought the offense might do something... All they had to do was chip him, and Luck might have made a play.

Just gotta learn how to pull these types of games out.  Got to get a hold on these Killer Mistakes.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

1 hour ago, RockThatBlue said:

Denvers defense is legendary. If they win another super bowl this year they will be up there with the 85 bears. 

 

I'd say better. It's almost impossible to keep an elite defense like the one that they have right now intact for more than a season. That's why you always hear '85 Bears, '01 Ravens, '13 Seahawks, etc. But Denver legitimately has a chance to be the best 2, possibly 3 years in a row, which is totally unheard of in the salary cap era.

[21isSuperman]

14 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I'm not sure if you're aware of what you're asking for. That's a big request in the NFL. 

 

IMO, Luck needed to get rid of the ball, and the play calling needed to account for the team's shortcomings. Good coaches try to minimize weaknesses and maximize strengths. I feel like Chud didn't do that at all. 

Is it the offensive playcalling, or is it Luck?  Last year, I think Sunday Night Football had a visual showing Hasselbeck had something like the 7th fastest time in the league from snap to throw, but Luck was 6th slowest.  And I think both times were under Chud.  So I don't know if Chud is calling plays with deeper routes because of Luck's superior arm strength compared to Hasselbeck, or if this is Luck's problem and he isn't getting the ball out on time

[Defjamz26]

20 minutes ago, krunk said:

I don't think it came down to Elite vs Non Elite players overall as far as that Denver game.  It had some bearing, but I think we should have and could have won.  We had that game right in our grasps late in the 4th quarter.  What it came down to really for the whole game in my opinion(because I think we should have scored more) was execution and how we chose to approach the defense that was presented in a lot of cases.  There were some game planning and coaching mistakes made out there.  Miller hasn't been the only person beating Joe Reitz to the punch.  He's been getting beat the entire preseason and into the regular season!  I really think they had no business leaving him alone.  But I must admit even after that play on the very next drive we tried to block/chip Miller with a tight end first and then had Reitz help out and he ran around both of them so...................,

And I'm glad you mentioned that because that was another thing. Going back to what I said about the nature of the Colts, that's a big one. Once again the Colts were trying to catch up and win a game at the end. Injuries and the talent of Denver's D factor in but that's where you have to talk about talent. Like you I've noticed how bad Reitz has played. There aren't many people who can handle Miller 1-on-1 but a better RT might have held out a little more. 

 

Sieman? Good pass rushers would have gotten to him or at least moved the pocket. Anderson and Booker looked unstoppable on the ground at times. A better NT and more explosive LBs might have held them to smaller gains. It's all heresy but it's not that unimaginable.

 

There were coaching mistakes, injuries, and a talented team on the other side of the ball. However, talent lost the Colts this game as it does most games. I almost feel like it's insulting to insinuate that the Colts could have beat the defending Super Bowl champs with the number one defense with the roster they put on the field Sunday. I believe in Any Given Sunday but if the Colts had won that game against the Broncos with a decimated secondary, no pash rush, non existent run game, and shaky O-Line plus an overall mediocre roster than there would be more cause for concern in Denver than Indy.

[krunk]

3 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

And I'm glad you mentioned that because that was another thing. Going back to what I said about the nature of the Colts, that's a big one. Once again the Colts were trying to catch up and win a game at the end. Injuries and the talent of Denver's D factor in but that's where you have to talk about talent. Like you I've noticed how bad Reitz has played. There aren't many people who can handle Miller 1-on-1 but a better RT might have held out a little more. 

 

Sieman? Good pass rushers would have gotten to him or at least moved the pocket. Anderson and Booker looked unstoppable on the ground at times. A better NT and more explosive LBs might have held them to smaller gains. It's all heresy but it's not that unimaginable.

 

There were coaching mistakes, injuries, and a talented team on the other side of the ball. However, talent lost the Colts this game as it does most games. I almost feel like it's insulting to insinuate that the Colts could have beat the defending Super Bowl champs with the number one defense with the roster they put on the field Sunday. I believe in Any Given Sunday but if the Colts had won that game against the Broncos with a decimated secondary, no pash rush, non existent run game, and shaky O-Line plus an overall mediocre roster than there would be more cause for concern in Denver than Indy.

What else can you ask of the defense yesterday?  They gave up 7 points and a couple field goals.  I don't even think Carolinas "Elite Defense" did that. Did They?

[krunk]

 I'm all for the Colts upgrading the personnel, but we knew that was the case going into the draft.  Just weren't going to get to every need.  Most of us were aware it would take at least 2 drafts to get the youth back on the defense so it's hard for me to get frustrated.   Even with our needs I think enough was laid on the plate yesterday to get that W with the personnel we currently have.   Would have been cool to have an Elite right tackle to make that block, but who's to say the block couldn't have been made by giving the dude some help?  Got to be able to skin a cat multiple ways.  It's like that Female you like with the Elite beauty and you are only an average looking guy.  You can't sell her on your looks so you got to get her attention with some of your other qualities.   Seen it done many times.

[Coltfreak]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I'm not sure if you're aware of what you're asking for. That's a big request in the NFL. 

 

IMO, Luck needed to get rid of the ball, and the play calling needed to account for the team's shortcomings. Good coaches try to minimize weaknesses and maximize strengths. I feel like Chud didn't do that at all. 

Exactly.  You don't go into a game with a great Defense and serious pass rushers and expect this mediocre OL To be able to block while Luck is in 7 Step drops and the long ball almost every play 

 

where is all the short quick passes?  Isn't Luck averaging almost 4 seconds to get it out of his hand?   This is poor game plan. Not sure who's fault it is. Luck? Chud? Pags?   But at any rate I hate this offense

This offense is loaded with playmakers and no one is taking advantage of it 

 

 

[WoolMagnet]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I'm not sure if you're aware of what you're asking for. That's a big request in the NFL. 

 

IMO, Luck needed to get rid of the ball, and the play calling needed to account for the team's shortcomings. Good coaches try to minimize weaknesses and maximize strengths. I feel like Chud didn't do that at all. 

I it's not that big a request when comparing ware/Miller to ALL other combos in the league.  These two are way above the others.  My point was we're close even with no help from the defense.  I think we've all noticed a marked improvement in our OL which should only improve with reps.

actually, less than a second would have worked in some.  I can picture Hilton open for a touchdown on one play that a split second more was all that was needed.

[oldunclemark]

2 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

Denvers defense is legendary. If they win another super bowl this year they will be up there with the 85 bears. 

..and they have faced 2 elite QBs...They'll se Big Ben and Brady but they have contained two pretty good players.....

...and they still have the big rookie in the bullpen if things go south at QB

[oldunclemark]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

If not for Miller ending that last drive, I thought the offense might do something... All they had to do was chip him, and Luck might have made a play.

we really did have a chance....much closer than the final score