Colt's New Strategy With Luck

[King Colt]

I read last week on NFL.com  Luck will be more of a rollout QB  this coming season and his running ability will get more chances. To me this is long over due and I never understood if he is a mobile QB why they did not option that more. Hopefully the new center will provide the necessary talent to help make this work. 

[Narcosys]

This seems counterproductive.

 

Considering when he runs he gets a broken rib and exploded kidney.  Exaggeration I know

[Valpo2004]

He's also pretty solid from the pocket too if the interior of the line can keep the pocket from collapsing on him.  

 

You can run almost any offense with Luck.  

[Jason_]

16 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

This seems counterproductive.

 

Considering when he runs he gets a Berrien rib and exploded kidney.  Exaggeration I know

 

Surely you understand the difference between running designed roll-outs and the play in which Luck was injured (a non-designed scramble)...right?

[Narcosys]

8 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

Surely you understand the difference between running designed roll-outs and the play in which Luck was injured (a non-designed scramble)...right?

And our designed runs suck as well. I don't trust our blocking yet.  

[Jason_]

1 hour ago, Narcosys said:

And our designed runs suck as well. I don't trust our blocking yet.  

 

well, this is a new point that you've brought up that was non-existent in your first post....I barely even recall any actual designed runs last year with Luck.  we also have a new OL coach with a new OL scheme, to go along with 4 newly drafted offensive linemen.  I get "not trusting" them yet, but don't get deeming this to be counter productive this early in the process...when none of us on this forum have really seen any of their blocking yet this offseason.

 

[Ollonesomeme]

3 hours ago, Narcosys said:

This seems counterproductive.

 

Considering when he runs he gets a broken rib and exploded kidney.  Exaggeration I know

I agree. I think his days of running the ball are over except on broken plays. You cannot be getting your franchise player injured. He know has an injury history and those things tend to repeat.

[Superman]

3 hours ago, Narcosys said:

And our designed runs suck as well. I don't trust our blocking yet.  

 

Getting your QB on the move is actually a way of taking pressure off of the blocking.

[dgambill]

31 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Getting your QB on the move is actually a way of taking pressure off of the blocking.

That's a good point...however Luck already has accuracy issues...now that could be because he is rushing his throws or more likely he doesn't have room to properly step into his throws but I'm not sure rolling him out is a magic bullet for our issues. Honestly I think its to buy time for TY and Dorsett to utilize their break away speed and gain more separation and bigger windows for Luck (kinda like Pitts does for AB) although we could be thinking about going very young on the OL and we may deem it necessary to help the line out. Adding it as a small part of our offense I'm ok with...but I don't see this being a big fix for the offense. I still think the best way to protect your qb is for them to get rid of the ball quickly from the pocket...any roll outs expose your qb and injuries don't just happen from getting hit...the more AL runs around the more chances he can misstep or plant wrong etc.

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, dgambill said:

That's a good point...however Luck already has accuracy issues...now that could be because he is rushing his throws or more likely he doesn't have room to properly step into his throws but I'm not sure rolling him out is a magic bullet for our issues. Honestly I think its to buy time for TY and Dorsett to utilize their break away speed and gain more separation and bigger windows for Luck (kinda like Pitts does for AB) although we could be thinking about going very young on the OL and we may deem it necessary to help the line out. Adding it as a small part of our offense I'm ok with...but I don't see this being a big fix for the offense. I still think the best way to protect your qb is for them to get rid of the ball quickly from the pocket...any roll outs expose your qb and injuries don't just happen from getting hit...the more AL runs around the more chances he can misstep or plant wrong etc.

 

To the bolded, can't just wrap him in bubble wrap...

 

As for his accuracy, I'm pretty sure Luck is as accurate as any other QB when he's on the move. 

 

I don't think anyone is suggesting the Colts are going to transition to a heavy roll out team. I don't get why these kind of articles always create so much angst and extremism. Adding some rollouts and bootlegs would be a good thing for Luck and for the offense, and it can be done with moderation.

[dgambill]

17 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

To the bolded, can't just wrap him in bubble wrap...

 

As for his accuracy, I'm pretty sure Luck is as accurate as any other QB when he's on the move. 

 

I don't think anyone is suggesting the Colts are going to transition to a heavy roll out team. I don't get why these kind of articles always create so much angst and extremism. Adding some rollouts and bootlegs would be a good thing for Luck and for the offense, and it can be done with moderation.

I do actually like getting him out of the pocket against some teams that we struggle blocking. As of now I can't say AL is good or not good throwing on the move. Everything I've seen is that he REALLY struggles with accuracy when he doesn't set his feet but maybe that is just me misremembering from games in the past. Seems like he has had a real knack for throwing high when he hasn't been able to plant and step into his throws when his mechanics break down. I would think his mechanics wouldn't just get better by having him throw on the move. If the team feels its the best thing to keep him healthy and improve the offense by all means that's great....and I do think it would have the benefit of forcing defenses to try to stay with our burners on the outside.

 

Yes you can't protect him from everything but qbs with the most longevity have been guys like Peyton, Eli, Tom, Phillip, Drew, Matt Ryan...typically pocket qbs that like to get rid of the ball on time or quickly. Guys that like to hold the ball longer (Big Ben) or move outside the pocket have typically taken hits or injuries I would say at a higher level. Personally I'd just like to see us up tempo the offense a little more...more quick throws and let Andrew read the defenses faster and learn to get the ball out quickly. Then when he does hold it make it be because he is going deep to TY. Andrew has a long way to go to being the cerebral assassin...but physically he is as gifted as any we've seen before. If we get him to that level where he is recognizing whats going on before the snap and playing ahead of the defense...then we will see a SB contender again here in Indy....even if the defense isn't lights out.

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, Ollonesomeme said:

I agree. I think his days of running the ball are over except on broken plays. You cannot be getting your franchise player injured. He know has an injury history and those things tend to repeat.

Taking Luck away from being who he is physically and mentally is not good IMO. That aspect is what makes him who he is. He is a QB with a linebacker mentality. When a QB is a gun slinger like Luck is all you can do try and keep him as safe as possible but taking that away is not letting him play at what makes him great. Farve was that way. You just have to live with what draws fans to watch him play.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

I do actually like getting him out of the pocket against some teams that we struggle blocking. As of now I can't say AL is good or not good throwing on the move. Everything I've seen is that he REALLY struggles with accuracy when he doesn't set his feet but maybe that is just me misremembering from games in the past. Seems like he has had a real knack for throwing high when he hasn't been able to plant and step into his throws when his mechanics break down. I would think his mechanics wouldn't just get better by having him throw on the move. If the team feels its the best thing to keep him healthy and improve the offense by all means that's great....and I do think it would have the benefit of forcing defenses to try to stay with our burners on the outside.

 

Yes you can't protect him from everything but qbs with the most longevity have been guys like Peyton, Eli, Tom, Phillip, Drew, Matt Ryan...typically pocket qbs that like to get rid of the ball on time or quickly. Guys that like to hold the ball longer (Big Ben) or move outside the pocket have typically taken hits or injuries I would say at a higher level. Personally I'd just like to see us up tempo the offense a little more...more quick throws and let Andrew read the defenses faster and learn to get the ball out quickly. Then when he does hold it make it be because he is going deep to TY. Andrew has a long way to go to being the cerebral assassin...but physically he is as gifted as any we've seen before. If we get him to that level where he is recognizing whats going on before the snap and playing ahead of the defense...then we will see a SB contender again here in Indy....even if the defense isn't lights out.

 

Getting rid of the ball quickly and using designed rollouts aren't mutually exclusive. Everyone should know that I'm the biggest advocate for Luck getting rid of the ball quickly, making hot throws, etc. But there's nothing wrong with putting him on the move as part of a balanced passing attack.

 

I don't think he has issues with accuracy while on the move. There's plenty of this on his highlight reel: 

 

 

And Luck is not like Peyton, Eli, Brady, Brees, Rivers, etc. He has physical gifts that none of them have, and one of those is his feet. 

 

[throwing BBZ]

Manning used to roll out and throw on the run pretty often in his younger days.
 

Luck has done it plenty to escape the rush, with Great success his Rookie year.
 The ONLY thing that allowed us to have a winning record.

[wig]

6 hours ago, Narcosys said:

And our designed runs suck as well. I don't trust our blocking yet.  

 

I can remember one designed QB run with Luck and it went for like 30 yards against KC in the playoffs. 

 

Oh, and like Superman said, rolling out alleviates pressure and isn't designed to be a QB run. 

[Narcosys]

6 hours ago, Jason_S said:

 

well, this is a new point that you've brought up that was non-existent in your first post....I barely even recall any actual designed runs last year with Luck.  we also have a new OL coach with a new OL scheme, to go along with 4 newly drafted offensive linemen.  I get "not trusting" them yet, but don't get deeming this to be counter productive this early in the process...when none of us on this forum have really seen any of their blocking yet this offseason.

 

I meant blocking in general. Mostly being sarcastic.  However,  look at RG3 and his designed run/rollout plays.   I don't want that same thing to happen to luck. 

 

Any designed runs/rollouts will inherently put him at greater risk.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I cant wait for Andrew to get back to 2014 Andrew. Football is getting closer guys!

[Lucky Colts Fan]

As long as the only thing Luck has to run against is the sideline.

 

I am all for Luck bootlegging out and going through his progressions before realizing the defense is giving him a lane to the first down marker on the sideline.

 

I hope Luck rushes for like 500 yds, 50 first downs, and ZERO hits outside the pocket.

 

I do NOT want to see what we saw last year, where he can't find an open receiver and just takes off up into the middle of the field where there are linebackers and safeties just waiting for a big lumbering target like Luck.

[southwest1]

Just a question: Why is this topic titled "Colts New Strategy with Luck" located in NFL General instead of say Colts Football? 

 

Not a negative reflection on King's Colt BTW. It happens. Misplacement I mean. I was just looking for this thread where I expected to find it & thought I was going nuts when I couldn't pinpoint it. That's all. 

[NewColtsFan]

 

Part of the reason to roll Luck both right and left is to slow up the pass rush.

 

If we never roll Luck out,  then defenses know he'll always be 5 to 7 steps behind center.   It makes the job of the pass rush easier.

 

We don't have to do it a lot.    Perhaps just 4-6 times a game.     Just enough to get the attention of the defense and make them be honest.

 

Sometimes there's a method to the madness.      I've been wanting this since the day Luck was drafted.

 

[Chucklez]

12 hours ago, dgambill said:

That's a good point...however Luck already has accuracy issues...now that could be because he is rushing his throws or more likely he doesn't have room to properly step into his throws but I'm not sure rolling him out is a magic bullet for our issues. Honestly I think its to buy time for TY and Dorsett to utilize their break away speed and gain more separation and bigger windows for Luck (kinda like Pitts does for AB) although we could be thinking about going very young on the OL and we may deem it necessary to help the line out. Adding it as a small part of our offense I'm ok with...but I don't see this being a big fix for the offense. I still think the best way to protect your qb is for them to get rid of the ball quickly from the pocket...any roll outs expose your qb and injuries don't just happen from getting hit...the more AL runs around the more chances he can misstep or plant wrong etc.

I agree he sometimes sails the ball a bit, but Luck is one of the most accurate throwers when on the move... counter-intuitive i know, but he is. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Andy Dalton was #35 on the NFL Channels top 100. Andrew #92.  Dalton couldn't carry Andrew's jockstrap. What a dumb list. I cant wait for this season to start!

[Jason_]

14 hours ago, Narcosys said:

I meant blocking in general. Mostly being sarcastic.  However,  look at RG3 and his designed run/rollout plays.   I don't want that same thing to happen to luck. 

 

Any designed runs/rollouts will inherently put him at greater risk.

 

no...they don't

[throwing BBZ]

11 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Part of the reason to roll Luck both right and left is to slow up the pass rush.

 

If we never roll Luck out,  then defenses know he'll always be 5 to 7 steps behind center.   It makes the job of the pass rush easier.

 

We don't have to do it a lot.    Perhaps just 4-6 times a game.     Just enough to get the attention of the defense and make them be honest.

 

Sometimes there's a method to the madness.      I've been wanting this since the day Luck was drafted.

 

 

  Exactly. And it is why you want to run the ball close to 50-50. That also slows the rush. Ya think!
Denver win. 40 rushes at 3 yds per. 36 passes. Gave up 1 sack.
Zero turnovers for Luck. Hmmm!  Only 4 penalties.Chud ball!!
And it made our tackles look good. WOW!!

[Ollonesomeme]

19 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Taking Luck away from being who he is physically and mentally is not good IMO. That aspect is what makes him who he is. He is a QB with a linebacker mentality. When a QB is a gun slinger like Luck is all you can do try and keep him as safe as possible but taking that away is not letting him play at what makes him great. Farve was that way. You just have to live with what draws fans to watch him play.

Then prepare to watch him have a short career and not play out his upcoming contract. Those were serious injuries that he suffered last year. That shoulder could reinjured on any hit.

[crazycolt1]

40 minutes ago, Ollonesomeme said:

Then prepare to watch him have a short career and not play out his upcoming contract. Those were serious injuries that he suffered last year. That shoulder could reinjured on any hit.

Injuries can and do happen every game played. A player cant play the game like the next play is going to be an injury or they become ineffective. The way Luck plays is what makes him who he is.

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, Ollonesomeme said:

Then prepare to watch him have a short career and not play out his upcoming contract. Those were serious injuries that he suffered last year. That shoulder could reinjured on any hit.

 

 

If Ben Roethlisberger can last this long,  so can Andrew Luck.....

 

[Ollonesomeme]

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

If Ben Roethlisberger can last this long,  so can Andrew Luck.....

 

Big Ben is even stronger than Luck but even he had to change the way he played to avoid injury. Luck isn't Superman and it astounding that he wasn't seriously injured much sooner. He now has a shoulder that will get the attention of defensive players league wide, all of them wanting to end his season. I don't think that separations ever really heal. The coaching staff needs to get control of him and limit the number and severity of the hits he takes.

[Jason_]

8 minutes ago, Ollonesomeme said:

Big Ben is even stronger than Luck but even he had to change the way he played to avoid injury. Luck isn't Superman and it astounding that he wasn't seriously injured much sooner. He now has a shoulder that will get the attention of defensive players league wide, all of them wanting to end his season. I don't think that separations ever really heal.

 

Can you share which medical degree(s) you have that you're basing that off of?

 

Quote

The coaching staff needs to get control of him and limit the number and severity of the hits he takes.

They already have...they made that a point of emphasis pretty much from his 2nd season on.  And, as others have already tried to explain, we're talking about bootlegs...designed roll-outs.  These type of plays, used correctly, will help to LIMIT the number of hits he takes, not add to it.  We're talking about the coaches putting Luck on the move in a controlled manner.  Not implementing a read-option style defense where Luck will get 10+ carries per game.  

[Coltfreak]

Why is this thread in the NFL General forum?

[Ollonesomeme]

7 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

Can you share which medical degree(s) you have that you're basing that off of?

 

They already have...they made that a point of emphasis pretty much from his 2nd season on.  And, as others have already tried to explain, we're talking about bootlegs...designed roll-outs.  These type of plays, used correctly, will help to LIMIT the number of hits he takes, not add to it.  We're talking about the coaches putting Luck on the move in a controlled manner.  Not implementing a read-option style defense where Luck will get 10+ carries per game.  

 

7 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

Can you share which medical degree(s) you have that you're basing that off of?

 

They already have...they made that a point of emphasis pretty much from his 2nd season on.  And, as others have already tried to explain, we're talking about bootlegs...designed roll-outs.  These type of plays, used correctly, will help to LIMIT the number of hits he takes, not add to it.  We're talking about the coaches putting Luck on the move in a controlled manner.  Not implementing a read-option style defense where Luck will get 10+ carries per game.  

No medical degrees, just unfortunate personal experience. A shoulder that was separated that is prone to going out at any time. I also tore a rotator cuff in my throwing shoulder and I can only lob a tennis ball a few feet underhanded to my dog. I also know people who have been dealing with shoulder problems for most of their lives. I hope I am wrong but now that Andrew's invincibility has been cracked, I think he will have more and ore problems. This is just my opinion from years of observation.

[Narcosys]

8 hours ago, Jason_S said:

 

no...they don't

Ok, if you say so.  

[Jason_]

15 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

Ok, if you say so.  

 

Well, even in this thread I'm not the only one who's saying so. 

[Jason_]

55 minutes ago, Ollonesomeme said:

 

No medical degrees, just unfortunate personal experience. A shoulder that was separated that is prone to going out at any time. I also tore a rotator cuff in my throwing shoulder and I can only lob a tennis ball a few feet underhanded to my dog. I also know people who have been dealing with shoulder problems for most of their lives. I hope I am wrong but now that Andrew's invincibility has been cracked, I think he will have more and ore problems. This is just my opinion from years of observation.

 

Well here's the thing. Unless you were previously a professional athlete then your personal experience isn't going to mean much of anything. And I'm merely stating that factually...not trying to be condescending or anything. The same would absolutely apply to me and pretty much anyone else on here. 

 

[crazycolt1]

56 minutes ago, Ollonesomeme said:

 

No medical degrees, just unfortunate personal experience. A shoulder that was separated that is prone to going out at any time. I also tore a rotator cuff in my throwing shoulder and I can only lob a tennis ball a few feet underhanded to my dog. I also know people who have been dealing with shoulder problems for most of their lives. I hope I am wrong but now that Andrew's invincibility has been cracked, I think he will have more and ore problems. This is just my opinion from years of observation.

The NFL only use the top medical professionals that money can pay for. These are world renown medical people who handle the top athletes in the world. Can you say the same of the medical people who you have dealing with? I am not saying you have had shabby work or anything of the nature but there is a reason the NFL uses specific medical people.

[Superman]

I think it's documented that shoulder injuries can be recurrent, even among pro athletes.

 

The thing is, that's beside the point. As I said earlier, you can't wrap the QB in bubble wrap. He has to be a playmaker, and no matter how good your line is, no matter how quickly he intends to get rid of the ball, the QB is going to be hit. Bottom line. He's also going to scramble from time to time. That doesn't mean he's going to become a running QB.

[BOTT]

New strategy was getting him a competent OC.

 

broken record I know....

[-JJ-]

On ‎6‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 4:25 PM, Superman said:

 

To the bolded, can't just wrap him in bubble wrap...

 

As for his accuracy, I'm pretty sure Luck is as accurate as any other QB when he's on the move. 

 

I don't think anyone is suggesting the Colts are going to transition to a heavy roll out team. I don't get why these kind of articles always create so much angst and extremism. Adding some rollouts and bootlegs would be a good thing for Luck and for the offense, and it can be done with moderation.

Plus rollouts aren't that dangerous because you can just throw it away. In fact it's easier to throw it away- out of the pocket and all..........

[Defjamz26]

Andrew Luck is deadly throwing on the move. I don't know why it took this long for them to start rolling him out more. He just needs to get better rolling to his left, because he tends to always rollout to his right.

[Ollonesomeme]

On June 21, 2016 at 5:49 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Andy Dalton was #35 on the NFL Channels top 100. Andrew #92.  Dalton couldn't carry Andrew's jockstrap. What a dumb list. I cant wait for this season to start!

I think that was mostly based on last year's performance. If healthy Luck might be better but they are not as far separated as you believe. Luck has to show that he is healthy and he MAY move ahead of Dalton but not by much. After last year, Luck only made this list on his prior rep alone. I do agree with you that the list doesn't have much basis in fact.