Center has to be a priority

[byrddawg]

I have continued to state that Andrew Luck deserves as good as center as Peyton Manning had

Where is the next Jeff Saturday?

Free Agents   Look at Chris Hubbard of the Steelers or Patrick Lewis of the Seahawks and there are 21 more

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/center/

 

Who is the best college prospect?

I like Nick Martin from the Fighting Irish (brother plays for Cowboys)  or Ryan Lewis Crimson Tide and there are others

http://walterfootball.com/draft2016C.php

 

We must get better at this position before are o-line will get any better   and they are in the right rounds

 

[CoachLite]

Center is tricky because you need someone with all the physical skills plus the football intelligence to make good reads and calls. This is a full, trusted partnership with the quarterback. I think the Colts have gone with the reads and calls over the physical skills, and this has created a trust problem for Andrew Luck, causing him to be in "panic mode", after the snap.

[MPStack]

26 minutes ago, byrddawg said:

 

Where is the next Jeff Saturday?

 

My guess is it won`t be another undrafted rookie like Saturday was. Polian hit the lottery with J. Saturday as he went undrafted. I think everyone is on board that Holmes and Harrison don`t fit the bill.

[Gavin]

I think people have to remember Peyton got rid of the ball quick so the hits he took and sacks were often minimal. Luck hitches....and hitches again sometimes. Some of that is because our wr's sometimes fail to get open and other times its as if Luck don't trust who he is throwing to so he holds onto the ball an extra second to long. The other times O Linemen just get beat off the snap. Its certainly not all on the O Line

[MPStack]

1 minute ago, Gavin said:

I think people have to remember Peyton got rid of the ball quick so the hits he took and sacks were often minimal. Luck hitches....and hitches again sometimes. Some of that is because our wr's sometimes fail to get open and other times its as if Luck don't trust who he is throwing to so he holds onto the ball an extra second to long. The other times O Linemen just get beat off the snap. Its certainly not all on the O Line

Luck definitely hangs onto the ball to long. This year he seemed to go for the big play far to often. Also, for whatever reason the TE`s were not utilized enough IMO. Hopefully, next season we see a emphasis of more short passing game, TE`s involved and more screens. This would take pressure off of the Oline. 

[Track Guy]

I think Nick Martin will be a good center at the next level, if Grigson is willing to invest an early day 2 pick in that position (I have my doubts that he is). 

[ClaytonColt]

Centre is definitely the key position we need to upgrade on the offensive line. At the beginning of the year I felt either Harrison or Holmes still had enough potential to improve but they've either gone backwards or at very best stood still.

 

I don't see a lot of good options in free agency though and Mack is going to get over paid because of the lack of options for centre needy teams causing competition for his services.

 

I originally liked Jack Allen from Michigan state as a mid round pick but I'm getting less sure about him as time goes on.

[BOTT]

1 hour ago, Gavin said:

I think people have to remember Peyton got rid of the ball quick so the hits he took and sacks were often minimal. Luck hitches....and hitches again sometimes. Some of that is because our wr's sometimes fail to get open and other times its as if Luck don't trust who he is throwing to so he holds onto the ball an extra second to long. The other times O Linemen just get beat off the snap. Its certainly not all on the O Line

MH is known for getting the ball out quickly and they didn't protect him very well either.

[MPStack]

5 minutes ago, ClaytonColt said:

Centre

 

Clayton, are you from Canada? Just curious, because of the way you spelled center. 

[ClaytonColt]

1 minute ago, MPStack said:

Clayton, are you from Canada? Just curious, because of the way you spelled center. 

 

Ha, good spot. Nope, I'm over in the UK. 

[GoColts8818]

100% agree.  I think it's the biggest weakness on this team.

[Smonroe]

13 minutes ago, ClaytonColt said:

Centre is definitely the key position we need to upgrade on the offensive line. At the beginning of the year I felt either Harrison or Holmes still had enough potential to improve but they've either gone backwards or at very best stood still.

 

I don't see a lot of good options in free agency though and Mack is going to get over paid because of the lack of options for centre needy teams causing competition for his services.

 

I originally liked Jack Allen from Michigan state as a mid round pick but I'm getting less sure about him as time goes on.

 

Yeah, I think you're right, there aren't a lot of great option for FA centers.  

 

Mack seems like he wants to stay in Cleveland for some reason, but he may change his mind.  He will be overpaid, but so what?  If he's available he's the best out there, and we should get him IMHO. 

[Gavin]

I actually think its unlikely Mack will stay In Cleveland, He even said winning is really important to him...That's not Cleveland

[ClaytonColt]

13 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

Yeah, I think you're right, there aren't a lot of great option for FA centers.  

 

Mack seems like he wants to stay in Cleveland for some reason, but he may change his mind.  He will be overpaid, but so what?  If he's available he's the best out there, and we should get him IMHO. 

 

He's had a poor year by his standard though hasn't he?

 

I'd like us to get away from paying top, top, money to 30 year old free agents who are coming off poor seasons with a recent major injury. Too many red flags for the money in my mind. 

 

I don't think he's worth the money he'll get paid and as tempting as it is to get a big name in surely it's these types of free agents you have to be wary of. He could quite easily end up being the Art Jones or Andre Johnson of the offensive line. 

[James Harden]

I'm really hope Grigsons is interested in Reese Dismukes. He is currently on on the Panthers practice squad. Just like Jeff Saturday, Dismukes went undrafted. He is like a clone of Jeff Saturday from body measurements to draft status. Dismukes was consider one of the best Centers coming out of college but the reason he went undrafted was because of his personality. I'm sure spending time with the Steelers and Panthers practice squads have changed him. I say sign him and give him a chance with us. 

[OffensivelyPC]

12 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

100% agree.  I think it's the biggest weakness on this team.

I'd say edge rusher is a bigger need. But we definitely need to fortify the OL from the middle to the right.

[Smonroe]

9 minutes ago, ClaytonColt said:

 

He's had a poor year by his standard though hasn't he?

 

I'd like us to get away from paying top, top, money to 30 year old free agents who coming off poor seasons with a recent major injury. Too many red flags for the money in my mind. 

 

I don't think he's worth the money he'll get paid and as tempting as it is to get a big name in surely it's these types of free agents you have to be wary of. He could quite easily end up being the Art Jones or Andre Johnson of the offensive line. 

 

It's not a great year for centers in the draft.  Both Tuerk and Martin are a bit undersized.  I'd love to get an experienced FA but that market is small too.

 

Yes, Mack didn't have a great year but I think he was selected to the pro bowl by the coaches, which means more than the fans playing favorites

 

I don't think you can play money ball in the NFL.  If Mack is the best available, I think you have to overpay for him.   As long as he's vetted better than AJ or Herremens.  

[ClaytonColt]

4 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

It's not a great year for centers in the draft.  Both Tuerk and Martin are a bit undersized.  I'd love to get an experienced FA but that market is small too.

 

Yes, Mack didn't have a great year but I think he was selected to the pro bowl by the coaches, which means more than the fans playing favorites

 

I don't think you can play money ball in the NFL.  If Mack is the best available, I think you have to overpay for him.   As long as he's vetted better than AJ or Herremens.  

I don't think it's necessarily moneyball, it's just a bad year for centers and someone will probably end up making him the highest paid center this year when he probably isn't worthy of that level.

 

I just look at it and just see another Gosder Cherilus. Maybe out previous failings with expensive free agents on the down slopes of their careers have made me gun shy but I just think we should be more creative in trying to find a player on the up who could be of similar effectiveness but for a fraction of the price.

[OLD FAN MAN]

irsay has had enough of our hurt qbs, I look for upgrades  at every position on the o-line except casto who we paid high for.

[NagelHausForge]

I really don't want to see the team pay for another high dollar FA only to see them come in and play like crap.  I would rather draft a C in the first 2 or 3 rounds and go from there.

[dw49]

3 hours ago, MPStack said:

Luck definitely hangs onto the ball to long. This year he seemed to go for the big play far to often. Also, for whatever reason the TE`s were not utilized enough IMO. Hopefully, next season we see a emphasis of more short passing game, TE`s involved and more screens. This would take pressure off of the Oline. 

 

go "to" the store 

 

I ate "too" much candy

[Smonroe]

54 minutes ago, ClaytonColt said:

I don't think it's necessarily moneyball, it's just a bad year for centers and someone will probably end up making him the highest paid center this year when he probably isn't worthy of that level.

 

I just look at it and just see another Gosder Cherilus. Maybe out previous failings with expensive free agents on the down slopes of their careers have made me gun shy but I just think we should be more creative in trying to find a player on the up who could be of similar effectiveness but for a fraction of the price.

 

Your last sentence would be true for every position, unfortunately it's easier said.  I don't know why people are so worried about cap, it goes up every year and one thing we can say about Grigson, he gets cap friendly deals.

 

I get what you're saying, I'm just saying we should get the best option available.  Cost shouldn't matter as much as effectiveness.  We've gone the cheaper FA, rookie, and UDFA routes.  We need to quit hoping these guys work out and go with a proven commodity.  Just my opinion.

[NorthernColt]

Agreed 100%. I personally would kick the tires on stefan wisniewski in FA. If not, look to draft one on day 2.

 

btw first post, lurked here for a long time, finally decided to join.

[MPStack]

8 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

go "to" the store 

 

I ate "too" much candy

B O O H O O!

[OffensivelyPC]

1 hour ago, ClaytonColt said:

I don't think it's necessarily moneyball, it's just a bad year for centers and someone will probably end up making him the highest paid center this year when he probably isn't worthy of that level.

 

I just look at it and just see another Gosder Cherilus. Maybe out previous failings with expensive free agents on the down slopes of their careers have made me gun shy but I just think we should be more creative in trying to find a player on the up who could be of similar effectiveness but for a fraction of the price.

What do you think Greg Toler, Erik Walden, and Joe Thomas were all about? Grigs does that, and it's like any other FA, some work, some don't. 

[TD]

23 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

Your last sentence would be true for every position, unfortunately it's easier said.  I don't know why people are so worried about cap, it goes up every year and one thing we can say about Grigson, he gets cap friendly deals.

 

I get what you're saying, I'm just saying we should get the best option available.  Cost shouldn't matter as much as effectiveness.  We've gone the cheaper FA, rookie, and UDFA routes.  We need to quit hoping these guys work out and go with a proven commodity.  Just my opinion.

 

4 hours ago, CoachLite said:

Center is tricky because you need someone with all the physical skills plus the football intelligence to make good reads and calls. This is a full, trusted partnership with the quarterback. I think the Colts have gone with the reads and calls over the physical skills, and this has created a trust problem for Andrew Luck, causing him to be in "panic mode", after the snap.

QB's usually get that way when either the play that is called takes too long to develop, or the key receivers get perpetually jammed up.  In Luck's case I think both things were happening.  Which makes it real difficult to find an easy answer.  The 0-Line isn't all that good, the receivers really didn't run crisp routes that cleared them from defenders, and play selection often took too long to develop.  We really need to improve in all three areas to my judgement.... a better 0-line,  receivers that actually manage to get open, and a selection of plays that make for quicker ball release by the QB.  Sounds to me like the O-Coordinator is aware of the problem, we have some receivers that just don't run great routes, and obviously an O-Line that needs revamping.  I don't think it's one thing fixes the whole problem.  Of course one of the main elements to the O-line is the center; so hope who is at that position can deliver and has a back-up that can as well.  That's my 2 cents worth.  Go Colts!

[ClaytonColt]

20 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

What do you think Greg Toler, Erik Walden, and Joe Thomas were all about? Grigs does that, and it's like any other FA, some work, some don't. 

Joe Thomas?

 

I agree, free agency is very much an inexact science. I just find so many of the top free agents disappoint so regularly, not even just here but across the league, so unless they're nailed on (which isn't very often) I'd prefer to shop in that second tier and try to get guys who still have improvement in them and something to prove. Either way there's no guarantees, it's just my opinion.

[COLTS449]

I think we have 3 options. 1st option - Sign Alex Mack. We get one of the best Centers in the league, but it wont come cheap. 2nd option - Sign Stefen Wisnewski. We get a quality starting center for a decent price. He isn't a top 5 Center or anything, but he's an above average quality starter, and in between 2 good guards he'd be even better IMO. 3rd option - draft our starting Center in the 2nd round. Either Nick Martin or Ryan Kelly. Personally I think this is our best option. I think both of those guys are going to be really, really good players in the NFL. I prefer Martin myself. I think if we sign an elite guard like Osemele and draft Nick Martin. I think our OL would go from a major weakness to a strength. Castanzo-Mewhort-Martin-Osemele-Reitz. I'd also probably draft Haeg if he's there in the 4th.

[TD]

18 minutes ago, ClaytonColt said:

Joe Thomas?

 

I agree, free agency is very much an inexact science. I just find so many of the top free agents disappoint so regularly, not even just here but across the league, so unless they're nailed on (which isn't very often) I'd prefer to shop in that second tier and try to get guys who still have improvement in them and something to prove. Either way there's no guarantees, it's just my opinion.

I never envy the GM's that try to wade though the mine field of Free Agency.   There are so many horror stories that it chills the blood.  I mean you pick a running back that set every record in college, you look at his size, his speed, his physical health, and totally forget to look at the O-Line that opened holes for him and the fantastic downfield blocking he got.  And, he turns out to be a zero.  I mean it's easy to do because you're really not evaluating line-men when making this decision.  Sometimes the chemistry just isn't right for a player and sometimes their personal life is a mess and until it gets fixed nothing is going to help.  There are just so many variable besides salary caps that a good GM has to measure before holding out a contract.  I don't envy them their job, but it would be fun when you get a Jeff Saturday and see the flower bloom into a dominant figure on the field. Go Colts!

[GoColts8818]

2 hours ago, OffensivelyPC said:

I'd say edge rusher is a bigger need. But we definitely need to fortify the OL from the middle to the right.

I'd say one A one B.  I think you can manufacture a little path rush with Mathis if it comes to that and hopefully the new coaches can figure out what happened to Newsome and get him going again.  

 

They dont have a NFL level center on the roster IMO.  So that's why I'd lean center over pass rusher but pass rusher would be number two on that list.

[OffensivelyPC]

32 minutes ago, ClaytonColt said:

Joe Thomas?

 

I agree, free agency is very much an inexact science. I just find so many of the top free agents disappoint so regularly, not even just here but across the league, so unless they're nailed on (which isn't very often) I'd prefer to shop in that second tier and try to get guys who still have improvement in them and something to prove. Either way there's no guarantees, it's just my opinion.

Sorry, I meant Donald Thomas (there was a Joe Thomas thread I had just posted in). In general, I do,agree about paying for big names.

[Carlos Danger]

There are a few good FA centers that might be available. I think age is an issue when looking at FA centers, considering that we want a guy who can play with Luck for years in the future.

 

Normally I'd say that center is a very draftable position comparatively. There are bound to be mid/late round prospects that fit the bill. I am hesitant, though because Grigs has whiffed at center before and the rumors about him overriding Chuck (with regard to personnel)at the position in the past. 

 

At any rate, it's a top 3 need, imo. 

1.Edge

2.Corner

3.Center

 

[Jdubu]

6 hours ago, ClaytonColt said:

I don't think it's necessarily moneyball, it's just a bad year for centers and someone will probably end up making him the highest paid center this year when he probably isn't worthy of that level.

 

I just look at it and just see another Gosder Cherilus. Maybe out previous failings with expensive free agents on the down slopes of their careers have made me gun shy but I just think we should be more creative in trying to find a player on the up who could be of similar effectiveness but for a fraction of the price.

The problem with your idea is that trying to get an olineman on the upswing and into their prime in the era we are in now is near impossible. As bad as teams are with their own olines, nobody is cutting loose of a young promising starter in their prime IMO. You almost have to be determined to draft your own prospect and make sure he develops into a real NFL starter or your QB gets killed. We have 2 legit starters on the oline in Costanzo and Mewhort. We have what looks to be a promising surprise starter in the making at RT with Good but he needs more refining during the offseason and into the preseason to know what we really have with him but Reitz can do just enough if he doesn't fly early on. We really badly need to hit on a center this year without fail and he has to start day 1. Thornton is serviceable and could perhaps flourish with a competent quality starter at center

[MR. Blueblood]

6 hours ago, get an 0-line said:

irsay has had enough of our hurt qbs, I look for upgrades  at every position on the o-line except casto who we paid high for.

Mewhort isn't going anywhere either

[crazycolt1]

IMO the top priority has to be the center position. Luck cant be sitting on the sidelines hurt. Not only does Luck need better protection the run game needs a boost. The only way that happens is shoring up the O-line. It also opens up the TE position. It's not rocket science.

[Jdubu]

4 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

I'd say one A one B.  I think you can manufacture a little path rush with Mathis if it comes to that and hopefully the new coaches can figure out what happened to Newsome and get him going again.  

 

They dont have a NFL level center on the roster IMO.  So that's why I'd lean center over pass rusher but pass rusher would be number two on that list.

I'm not sure there is a 1a 1b. If you have no starting QB on the team because he has a lacerated kidney and torn rib cartilage, you have an 8-8 team or worse. A high functioning star QB can overcome the lack of defense by scoring more than the other team but it's tough for a defense to keep sacking an opposing teams QB and stop them from scoring too often if your team isn't staying on the field and scoring on offense. 

 

Center is a clear number 1 need, no two ways about it. 

[Dark Superman]

Alex Mack in a Colts uniform would make me happy.

[GoColts8818]

41 minutes ago, Jdubu said:

I'm not sure there is a 1a 1b. If you have no starting QB on the team because he has a lacerated kidney and torn rib cartilage, you have an 8-8 team or worse. A high functioning star QB can overcome the lack of defense by scoring more than the other team but it's tough for a defense to keep sacking an opposing teams QB and stop them from scoring too often if your team isn't staying on the field and scoring on offense. 

 

Center is a clear number 1 need, no two ways about it. 

Well for starters while there are many plays to pick from to point out how bad the o-line is the play where Luck lacerated his kidney and tore his abdominal muscle is not one of them.  That happened because of the freak way he got hit on a play where he elected to scramble.  If anything that play means the coaches HAVE to teach Luck how to slide this off-season and play a little smarter than he has on the pass and remember he's the QB and not a linebacker and him being healthy is more important than the other team getting a runback on a turnover. 

 

Still like I said there are many plays to pick from and the rib cartilage probably supports that.  The weakest spot on the line is by far the center spot.  So it needs to be addressed in the worst way.

 

Still, not many teams have won Super Bowls out scoring teams 50-45 and the biggest thing the defense is missing is a pass rusher.  Still I think you have more options on the roster in terms of ways to get a pass rush.  However I do think its a major need for the team.  So I would label them as 1A and 1B but 1A would be the center slot but I am not going to complain if they get a pass rusher with their first round pick. 

[hoosierhawk]

Couple thoughts.

1. I like Reitz but he scares me with his durability. This is the only year I remember him not being hurt. I think he is adequate but would like him as a backup as I think he can play every position other than center on the OL and do an OK job.

2. I know everyone likes Mewhart at guard but I know I am in the minority saying I would rather see him at RT. I read that he didn't give up a sack this year and I was surprised but I think he is better at RT and finding a good guard is easier to find than a good RT. I would like us to draft a center and guard at round 2 and 3 and move Mewhart.

3. I see the problem with Luck holding onto the ball to long differently them some. First of all we have no WR that can get open quickly since Reggie. No one seems to get separation off the line. Look at Brady's safety valve Edleman. Edleman seems to be open instantly. Since he has been hurt Brady is a different QB. How has it worked for MH since Luck has been hurt. Same results and MH is known to get rid of the ball quickly.

The problem is neither has any time to wait for separation as the OL gives them no time. We need help in both areas and hopefully some of both is coaching which I think will change some.

4. if I were drafting I would try to get a good Pass rusher in the 1st as they are go higher than interior OL. We should be able to get some good OL in the 2 and 3.

 

[GoColts8818]

7 hours ago, get an 0-line said:

irsay has had enough of our hurt qbs, I look for upgrades  at every position on the o-line except casto who we paid high for.

Yes he has but he also said they will build around Castonzo and Mewhort as they should.  The left side of the line is good.  The other three spots need a major overhaul though. 

 

Although Irsay told Channel 13 they feel like they have a really good player in Good (no pun intended) so he might very well be the right tackle moving forward.