Grigson Has Some Explaining To Do

[K-148]

Everyone has some explaining to do.

Aaron Dobson, Logan Ryan, Duron Harmon, Jake Bequette, Ras-I Dowling, Jermaine Cunningham, Taylor Price, Ron Brace, Brandon Tate, Tyrone McKenzie, Terrence Wheatley, Shawn Crable, Kevin O'Connell all were 1st - 3rd rounders for the Patriots since 2008. WRs are a mess, qustionable DBs. Fire Belichick?

Matt Elam, Arthur Brown, Courtney Upshaw, Jah Reid, Sergio Kindle, Terrence Cody, Ed Dickson, Tavares Gooden, Tom Zbikowski, Oniel Cousins all were 1st - 3rd rounders for the Ravens since 2008. WRs? Do they have any? Fire Newsome?

[K-148]

It is impossible to have dominant OL, dominant WRs, dominant run game, dominant DL, dominant DBs... So, when you have great QB and play in dome, you should have dominant passing offence and dominant pass rush. Everything else - luxury. Or you waste your QB. Manning's Colts can't win because of personel, not because of strategy.

In his last (played) season with the Colts Manning has Austin "Concussion" Collie, Anthony "A(lways)IR" Gonzalez, Tom "Crocodile hands" Santi, Taj "Who?" Smith, Blair "Thank you, mr. Manning" White, Dallas "Decline" Clark, Brody "Swing tackle" Eldridge, Jacob "Jack of all trades" Tamme, Gijon "Cut him ASAP" Robinson behind Reggie Wayne and Pierre Garcon. Not good.

[Pacergeek]

Grigson traded a first round pick for Richardson. Grigson drafted Werner in the first round. Grigson signed Laron Landry. Grigson traded Jerry Hughes for Kelvin Sheppard. Are these good deals? Do these deals actually give confidence to people that Grigson knows what he is doing. I'm sorry, but Grigson is horrible at deals

[BOTT]

It is impossible to have dominant OL, dominant WRs, dominant run game, dominant DL, dominant DBs... So, when you have great QB and play in dome, you should have dominant passing offence and dominant pass rush. Everything else - luxury. Or you waste your QB. Manning's Colts can't win because of personel, not because of strategy.

In his last (played) season with the Colts Manning has Austin "Concussion" Collie, Anthony "A(lways)IR" Gonzalez, Tom "Crocodile hands" Santi, Taj "Who?" Smith, Blair "Thank you, mr. Manning" White, Dallas "Decline" Clark, Brody "Swing tackle" Eldridge, Jacob "Jack of all trades" Tamme, Gijon "Cut him ASAP" Robinson behind Reggie Wayne and Pierre Garcon. Not good.

That first paragraph is total crap

[GoColts8818]

Grigson traded a first round pick for Richardson. Grigson drafted Werner in the first round. Grigson signed Laron Landry. Grigson traded Jerry Hughes for Kelvin Sheppard. Are these good deals? Do these deals actually give confidence to people that Grigson knows what he is doing. I'm sorry, but Grigson is horrible at deals

i think just about everyone who supported Grigson has pointed out he has made mistakes and that some have been big. No one has claimed that he is perfect. Also, I noticed you left out the Davis trade, signing Mike Adams, Darrius Butler, re-signing Reggie when everyone thought he was gone, re-signing Adam, McAfee,and Marhis. Not over paying for Garçon. Signing Freeman and Jackson. Trading up to get Hilton h the draft. That's not Including good draft picks like Fleener, Allen, Mewhort, Moncrief, or Newsome either. Those are some significant deals he got right. So the idea that you seem to be suggesting that he is horrible at deals seems to be false. No he's perfect when it comes to deals and yes he's made mistakes but the idea he botches every move he makes is false, This has almost completely turned over its roster in the three years he's been here. Yet, they have gone deeper into the playoffs every year since he took over. They clearly have talent some where and since he's the GM he gets credit for that. Yes they still have holes to fill and yes he has made mistakes but show me one GM in sports who has never made a mistake.

[Hoose]

i think just about everyone who supported Grigson has pointed out he has made mistakes and that some have been big. No one has claimed that he is perfect. Also, I noticed you left out the Davis trade, signing Mike Adams, Darrius Butler, re-signing Reggie when everyone thought he was gone, re-signing Adam, McAfee,and Marhis. Not over paying for Garçon. Signing Freeman and Jackson. Trading up to get Hilton h the draft. That's not Including good draft picks like Fleener, Allen, Mewhort, Moncrief, or Newsome either. Those are some significant deals he got right. So the idea that you seem to be suggesting that he is horrible at deals seems to be false. No he's perfect when it comes to deals and yes he's made mistakes but the idea he botches every move he makes is false, This has almost completely turned over its roster in the three years he's been here. Yet, they have gone deeper into the playoffs every year since he took over. They clearly have talent some where and since he's the GM he gets credit for that. Yes they still have holes to fill and yes he has made mistakes but show me one GM in sports who has never made a mistake.

Well said. Every GM has their mistakes. Its part of the reality of the NFL. Grigson has had one very high profile gaff in trading a number one for Richardson. Other than that, his judgement has been pretty solid. The team needs to get better on the O-line, and I wish he'd picked a good one in the draft to groom for the future. But other than that, I think he deserves kudos for the team the Colts have today. And his cap management is spot on. 

[GoColts8818]

Well said. Every GM has their mistakes. Its part of the reality of the NFL. Grigson has had one very high profile gaff in trading a number one for Richardson. Other than that, his judgement has been pretty solid. The team needs to get better on the O-line, and I wish he'd picked a good one in the draft to groom for the future. But other than that, I think he deserves kudos for the team the Colts have today. And his cap management is spot on.

he did take Mewhort and Holmes looks like he's starting to come around. If they keep progressing that's three with Castonzo with his only really miss being Thornton in terms of higher level picks on the online. Still has to find two more long term answers though.

[K-148]

 

Grigson traded a first round pick for Richardson. Grigson drafted Werner in the first round. Grigson signed Laron Landry. Grigson traded Jerry Hughes for Kelvin Sheppard. Are these good deals? Do these deals actually give confidence to people that Grigson knows what he is doing. I'm sorry, but Grigson is horrible at deals

New England traded 29^th pick of the 2013 NFL Draft to Minnesota in exchange for Minnesota's 2013 second- (52^nd – Jamie Collins), third- (83^rd – Logan Ryan), fourth- (102^nd – Josh Boyce), and seventh- (229^th – traded with Jeff Demps for LeGarrette Blount) round selections. The Patriots spent their own 59^th pick (2^nd round) on Aaron Dobson, 91^st pick (3^rd round) on Duron Harmon, 226^th pick (7^th round) on Michael Buchanan.

Why not take Jamie Collins with own 59^th pick, and do not take Aaron Dobson? Why not trade own 226^th pick for LeGarrette Blount, and do not take Michaael Buchanan? In fact, the Patriots spent 1^st round pick of the 2013 NFL Draft on Aaron Dobson, Logan Ryan and Josh Boyce. It looks dumb… in 2015.

In 2010, the Patriots traded 4^th round pick of the 2011 NFL Draft for Deion Branch (48-706-5, 51-702-5, 16-145-0). Worth it?

In 2011, the Patriots traded two draft picks, a 5th round pick in 2012, and a 6th round pick in 2013 for 15 passes, 276 yards, 1 touchdown… 3 years, 12M, 4,75M signing bonus, 4,75M guaranteed… I mean Chad Johnson.

In 2012, the Patriots trade 4^th round pick of the 2013 NFL Draft for a big name… I mean Aqib Talib:

“To be fair, Talib isn’t exactly the model of consistency either. Last year he started strong with a +8.2 grade but then missed three games and earned a -8.5 grade in his remaining seven games (-0,3 for 2013 season with NE). A similar trajectory occurred in 2012, though under different circumstances: He started the season with a healthy 4.6 grade for the Bucs, got suspended for Adderall use and was subsequently traded to the Pats, and graded a -6.8 over the final six regular season games with his new club (-6,8 for 2012 season with NE)”.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/03/11/broncos-sign-aqib-talib/

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/player/17017/aqib-talib

Belichick is horrible at deals?

[K-148]

That first paragraph is total crap

Maybe "yes". Maybe "no". Show me even 1 team to be dominant in all areas in cap era.

[Pacergeek]

i think just about everyone who supported Grigson has pointed out he has made mistakes and that some have been big. No one has claimed that he is perfect. Also, I noticed you left out the Davis trade, signing Mike Adams, Darrius Butler, re-signing Reggie when everyone thought he was gone, re-signing Adam, McAfee,and Marhis. Not over paying for Garçon. Signing Freeman and Jackson. Trading up to get Hilton h the draft. That's not Including good draft picks like Fleener, Allen, Mewhort, Moncrief, or Newsome either. Those are some significant deals he got right. So the idea that you seem to be suggesting that he is horrible at deals seems to be false. No he's perfect when it comes to deals and yes he's made mistakes but the idea he botches every move he makes is false, This has almost completely turned over its roster in the three years he's been here. Yet, they have gone deeper into the playoffs every year since he took over. They clearly have talent some where and since he's the GM he gets credit for that. Yes they still have holes to fill and yes he has made mistakes but show me one GM in sports who has never made a mistake.

All GM's make mistakes, but Grigson makes the same mistakes over and over again. You say Mewhort is good, the jury is still out. All of his offensive line guys have been mediocre or sucked. Our best tackle was a friggin Bill Polian pick. Grigson has truly done a terrible job improving the line

[Pacergeek]

Our pass rush was terrible, and Grigson traded Jerry Hughes for someone no longer in football. Jerry Hughes is now one of the top pass rushers in football. Does this sound like a good deal? I don't want to hear the "different system" nonsense explaining that it was correct to trade Hughes. Grigson gave up on him way too soon. For whatever reason, this blunder has not gotten the attention that it deserves, but it was still a terrible deal. Also, he drafted Werner to be a pass rusher, which has also been a disaster. In summary, Grigson traded Hughes for a bum, and drafted another bum to replace Hughes. Are these good deals?

[The Fish]

Our pass rush was terrible, and Grigson traded Jerry Hughes for someone no longer in football. Jerry Hughes is now one of the top pass rushers in football. Does this sound like a good deal? I don't want to hear the "different system" nonsense explaining that it was correct to trade Hughes. Grigson gave up on him way too soon. For whatever reason, this blunder has not gotten the attention that it deserves, but it was still a terrible deal. Also, he drafted Werner to be a pass rusher, which has also been a disaster. In summary, Grigson traded Hughes for a bum, and drafted another bum to replace Hughes. Are these good deals?

Different systems. 

[BOTT]

Maybe "yes". Maybe "no". Show me even 1 team to be dominant in all areas in cap era.

That's not what I was referencing. Your take on dome teams is crap

[Jason_]

It's kinda ironic you say this...

We get it already too.

Can I like this post twice?

[SteelCityColt]

Can I like this post twice?

For a small donation to the "Bring back Lawrence Guy" fund, sure.

[crazycolt1]

Our pass rush was terrible, and Grigson traded Jerry Hughes for someone no longer in football. Jerry Hughes is now one of the top pass rushers in football. Does this sound like a good deal? I don't want to hear the "different system" nonsense explaining that it was correct to trade Hughes. Grigson gave up on him way too soon. For whatever reason, this blunder has not gotten the attention that it deserves, but it was still a terrible deal. Also, he drafted Werner to be a pass rusher, which has also been a disaster. In summary, Grigson traded Hughes for a bum, and drafted another bum to replace Hughes. Are these good deals?

No they were not good moves but as long as you dwell on the negative you wont see the positive. It's easy to nit pick your agenda and overlook the good things Grigson has done. Name me one GM in the league that has totally rebuilt a team and advanced deeper into the playoffs his first three seasons. I will wait for your answer and the explanation for your inability to see the whole picture.

[Jason_]

For a small donation to the "Bring back Lawrence Guy" fund, sure.

Damn, I already contribute to the "bring back Caesar rayford" fund....guess I chose the wrong horse....HEY, I made a pun

[SteelCityColt]

Our pass rush was terrible, and Grigson traded Jerry Hughes for someone no longer in football. Jerry Hughes is now one of the top pass rushers in football. Does this sound like a good deal? I don't want to hear the "different system" nonsense explaining that it was correct to trade Hughes. Grigson gave up on him way too soon. For whatever reason, this blunder has not gotten the attention that it deserves, but it was still a terrible deal. Also, he drafted Werner to be a pass rusher, which has also been a disaster. In summary, Grigson traded Hughes for a bum, and drafted another bum to replace Hughes. Are these good deals?

It's been said several times and is fairly evident from the player's comments he was not happy here. This despite a change of FO, there is no guarantee at all he'd have performed like he has at the Bills (with superior talent around him).

This accusation of Grigson mismanaging the trade is as lazy as it is old.

Players are people, not pieces on a chess board.

[SteelCityColt]

Damn, I already contribute to the "bring back Caesar rayford" fund....guess I chose the wrong horse....HEY, I made a pun

We already honour Caesar by naming our forum pre-season MVP trophy the "Caesar Rayford trophy for kids who don't post so good".

[RockThatBlue]

Everyone has some explaining to do.

Aaron Dobson, Logan Ryan, Duron Harmon, Jake Bequette, Ras-I Dowling, Jermaine Cunningham, Taylor Price, Ron Brace, Brandon Tate, Tyrone McKenzie, Terrence Wheatley, Shawn Crable, Kevin O'Connell all were 1st - 3rd rounders for the Patriots since 2008. WRs are a mess, qustionable DBs. Fire Belichick?

Matt Elam, Arthur Brown, Courtney Upshaw, Jah Reid, Sergio Kindle, Terrence Cody, Ed Dickson, Tavares Gooden, Tom Zbikowski, Oniel Cousins all were 1st - 3rd rounders for the Ravens since 2008. WRs? Do they have any? Fire Newsome?

And you posted this in a thread about grigson why exactly?

[Buck Showalter]

Our pass rush was terrible, and Grigson traded Jerry Hughes for someone no longer in football. Jerry Hughes is now one of the top pass rushers in football. Does this sound like a good deal? I don't want to hear the "different system" nonsense explaining that it was correct to trade Hughes. Grigson gave up on him way too soon. For whatever reason, this blunder has not gotten the attention that it deserves, but it was still a terrible deal. Also, he drafted Werner to be a pass rusher, which has also been a disaster. In summary, Grigson traded Hughes for a bum, and drafted another bum to replace Hughes. Are these good deals?

Grigson gives up too soon on Hughes, but Werner (whose first two seasons are comparable to Hughes) is a complete bum...

Contradiction much???

[Buck Showalter]

It's been said several times and is fairly evident from the player's comments he was not happy here. This despite a change of FO, there is no guarantee at all he'd have performed like he has at the Bills (with superior talent around him).

This accusation of Grigson mismanaging the trade is as lazy as it is old.

Players are people, not pieces on a chess board.

Hughes probably had a bad attitude & wanted traded after reading this forum, which was not kind to him during his tenure as a Colt...

Oh the irony...

[K-148]

And you posted this in a thread about grigson why exactly?

Quod licet Belichick, non licet Grigson. There's not much justice in a world.

[K-148]

That's not what I was referencing. Your take on dome teams is crap

Luck: 25 M/y.

Hilton:13 M/y.

#2 WR: 8 M/y.

TE: 7 M/y.

AC: 10 M/y.

That's 63 M/y for 5 players. More than 45% of the cap. It's up to you to choose, whom do you want to pay. Dominant OL? Ask SF. Dominant DL? I'll go with dominant pass rush (quality DBs included).

[BOTT]

Luck: 25 M/y.

Hilton:13 M/y.

#2 WR: 8 M/y.

TE: 7 M/y.

AC: 10 M/y.

That's 63 M/y for 5 players. More than 45% of the cap. It's up to you to choose, whom do you want to pay. Dominant OL? Ask SF. Dominant DL? I'll go with dominant pass rush (quality DBs included).

umm, ok

[BOTT]

Grigson gives up too soon on Hughes, but Werner (whose first two seasons are comparable to Hughes) is a complete bum...

Contradiction much???

Because Werner doesn't have any of the raw ability of Hughes.

[K-148]

umm, ok

Agree to disagree? ;)

[BOTT]

Agree to disagree? ;)

Sure

[Buck Showalter]

Because Werner doesn't have any of the raw ability of Hughes.

Maybe, Hughes may have all the raw talent in the world, but the fact remains that the two have comparable beginnings to their NFL careers, which are/were underwhelming for their first round status...

I'm still not gonna use that as a basis as an argument to exemplify the GM's shortcomings...

[GoColts8818]

Our pass rush was terrible, and Grigson traded Jerry Hughes for someone no longer in football. Jerry Hughes is now one of the top pass rushers in football. Does this sound like a good deal? I don't want to hear the "different system" nonsense explaining that it was correct to trade Hughes. Grigson gave up on him way too soon. For whatever reason, this blunder has not gotten the attention that it deserves, but it was still a terrible deal. Also, he drafted Werner to be a pass rusher, which has also been a disaster. In summary, Grigson traded Hughes for a bum, and drafted another bum to replace Hughes. Are these good deals?

Who said it sounded like a good deal?  That would be one of those mistakes that people have acknowledged Grigson has made.  However, it only looks like a mistake in retrospect.  This forum rejoiced when they saw Hughes was traded and frankly were being harsh on Grigson for not having cut him before then.  So just about everyone here would have made that trade.  Also, many of the people now bashing Grigson for trading Hughes are the same people would use Hughes to bash Polian for drafting busts.  It's not like people were saying Hughes needs more time people were pleading for him to go.  So let's not try to rewrite history and act like people thought he was going to become the player he has become they thought was bust left over from the Polian era.  That's why it doesn't get much attention because a lot of people know they would be hypocrites to bash that trade because they were calling for the Colts to give up on Hughes long before Grigson traded him. 

 

No one has ever said Grigson was perfect.  People keep admitting mistakes.  However, based on the Colts on the field under him people feel like his good moves out weigh his mistakes.  Again, this team keeps winning and keeps going in the further in the playoffs every year since he took over.  Since he took over a 2-14 team that was aging and in deep trouble with the salary cap he clearly didn't take over team that had a tone of talent.  He had to rebuild the roster from ground up and they keep getting better under him.  That talent didn't just appear out of thin air.  Someone had to bring them here.  That's the job of the GM which is why Grigson gets credit. 

 

However, it seems like you and a very vocal minority want to just harp on three or four moves and ignore anything good he did.  That's not looking at the whole picture that's want to push an agenda that Grigson isn't good at his job even though the larger picture doesn't support that.  It seems like there is a group of people that expect perfection out of the GM and you aren't going to get that.  All GMs in all sports make mistakes. 

 

Let's also be honest here for a second.  The Colts have had four bad none playoff seasons since 1995 and three of them happened prior to 2002.  Let's not kid ourselves we don't know what a bad GM looks like because we haven't seen one in 20 years.  In a lot of ways we are those kids who wake up on Christmas morning and throw and fit because we just got an X-Box One and didn't get the PS4 to go with it.  We are beyond spoiled.  We are so spoiled that we are inventing things to complain about because we don't know what real problems look like in terms of management. 

[jmac_48]

Damn, I already contribute to the "bring back Caesar rayford" fund....guess I chose the wrong horse....HEY, I made a pun

Hey Caesar was just released by Minn. today maybe we could get him back to cover for Jones injury.

[BOTT]

Who said it sounded like a good deal?  That would be one of those mistakes that people have acknowledged Grigson has made.  However, it only looks like a mistake in retrospect.  This forum rejoiced when they saw Hughes was traded and frankly were being harsh on Grigson for not having cut him before then.  So just about everyone here would have made that trade.  Also, many of the people now bashing Grigson for trading Hughes are the same people would use Hughes to bash Polian for drafting busts.  It's not like people were saying Hughes needs more time people were pleading for him to go.  So let's not try to rewrite history and act like people thought he was going to become the player he has become they thought was bust left over from the Polian era.  That's why it doesn't get much attention because a lot of people know they would be hypocrites to bash that trade because they were calling for the Colts to give up on Hughes long before Grigson traded him. 

 

No one has ever said Grigson was perfect.  People keep admitting mistakes.  However, based on the Colts on the field under him people feel like his good moves out weigh his mistakes.  Again, this team keeps winning and keeps going in the further in the playoffs every year since he took over.  Since he took over a 2-14 team that was aging and in deep trouble with the salary cap he clearly didn't take over team that had a tone of talent.  He had to rebuild the roster from ground up and they keep getting better under him.  That talent didn't just appear out of thin air.  Someone had to bring them here.  That's the job of the GM which is why Grigson gets credit. 

 

However, it seems like you and a very vocal minority want to just harp on three or four moves and ignore anything good he did.  That's not looking at the whole picture that's want to push an agenda that Grigson isn't good at his job even though the larger picture doesn't support that.  It seems like there is a group of people that expect perfection out of the GM and you aren't going to get that.  All GMs in all sports make mistakes. 

 

Let's also be honest here for a second.  The Colts have had four bad none playoff seasons since 1995 and three of them happened prior to 2002.  Let's not kid ourselves we don't know what a bad GM looks like because we haven't seen one in 20 years.  In a lot of ways we are those kids who wake up on Christmas morning and throw and fit because we just got an X-Box One and didn't get the PS4 to go with it.  We are beyond spoiled.  We are so spoiled that we are inventing things to complain about because we don't know what real problems look like in terms of management.

So because random fans on forum would have made the trade we shouldn't hold Grigson to a higher standard? I have never gotten bent out of shape over the Hughes trade, but that's setting the bar pretty low.

[BleedBlu8792]

Luck: 25 M/y.

Hilton:13 M/y.

#2 WR: 8 M/y.

TE: 7 M/y.

AC: 10 M/y.

That's 63 M/y for 5 players. More than 45% of the cap. It's up to you to choose, whom do you want to pay. Dominant OL? Ask SF. Dominant DL? I'll go with dominant pass rush (quality DBs included).

 

To the bolded... Pure speculation right now. I HIGHLY doubt either TE will make 7MIL in Indy. Besides, it costs MONEY when it comes to GOOD players. On top of that, and it seems this has to be reiterated continuously, playes still have to WANT to come play here. Money isn't the only deciding factor for these guys.

 

And SF's O-line has been garbage the last two years. Don't let Gore's numbers fool you. The same with Seattle's, to which both have progressively gotten worse.

[K-148]

To the bolded... Pure speculation right now. I HIGHLY doubt either TE will make 7MIL in Indy. Besides, it costs MONEY when it comes to GOOD players. On top of that, and it seems this has to be reiterated continuously, playes still have to WANT to come play here. Money isn't the only deciding factor for these guys.

 

And SF's O-line has been garbage the last two years. Don't let Gore's numbers fool you. The same with Seattle's, to which both have progressively gotten worse.

Speculation for sure. But logic is the same: huge part of the cap will be spent on offense core.

[RockThatBlue]

Should pagano and grigson still be fired after beating the rams? Or is it OK to keep them?

[BleedBlu8792]

Speculation for sure. But logic is the same: huge part of the cap will be spent on offense core.

 

Actually it will more than likely balance it out. Luck is going to skew the offensive side, but that's it. The defensive side is getting the majority of the money right now.

[Pacergeek]

Trent Richardson is out of the NFL after 3 seasons. Grigson traded a first round pick for this bust. A worse trade than the infamous Hershel Walker trade. Grigson is truly horrible at evaluating talent

[crazycolt1]

So because random fans on forum would have made the trade we shouldn't hold Grigson to a higher standard? I have never gotten bent out of shape over the Hughes trade, but that's setting the bar pretty low.

It's not a point to hold Grigson responsible for his mistakes, it's saying he is a bad GM and he don't know what he is doing. Some even are calling for his firing. Why should anyone hold Grigson to a higher standard anymore than any other GM? Whine and cry about 3 or 4 moves but overlook everything else is what the problem is. From the way some talk about the Colts you would think they are the worst team in the league and Grigson is the bottom of the barrel. It's like giving someone a check and then they whine because they have to cash it.

[crazycolt1]

Trent Richardson is out of the NFL after 3 seasons. Grigson traded a first round pick for this bust. A worse trade than the infamous Hershel Walker trade. Grigson is truly horrible at evaluating talent

Then explain why the players that Grigson has brought in have been as successful as they have been. You nit pick one bad move and then negate everything else?  You need a dose of reality and learn something about the NFL before commenting on things you don't know anything about.

[BOTT]

It's not a point to hold Grigson responsible for his mistakes, it's saying he is a bad GM and he don't know what he is doing. Some even are calling for his firing. Why should anyone hold Grigson to a higher standard anymore than any other GM? Whine and cry about 3 or 4 moves but overlook everything else is what the problem is. From the way some talk about the Colts you would think they are the worst team in the league and Grigson is the bottom of the barrel. It's like giving someone a check and then they whine because they have to cash it.

That has nothing to do with what I wrote