Deflategate Central (one thread, merged, moderated)

[ColtRider]

And by the way...the Judge told both sides to tone it down...i.e. Brady and Goodell. The Patriots organization isn't involved in the court case.

Tell that to Robert Kraft and the rest of Patriot Nation that they're not involved in the court case from a "public perception" and their own.

[Bad Morty]

Tell that to Robert Kraft and the rest of Patriot Nation that they're not involved in the court case from a "public perception" and their own.

yeah...but I'm addressing the fact that the judge who ordered the rhetoric toned down has no jurisdiction over the Patriots. They aren't involved in the case legally.

[ColtRider]

yeah...but I'm addressing the fact that the judge who ordered the rhetoric toned down has no jurisdiction over the Patriots. They aren't involved in the case legally.

Good question/and/or point. Since I see Yehoodi here, I'll revert to him. Since the judge has ordered that the rhetoric be toned down from both sides, does that include the Patriots organization/NFL/NFLPA/Brady? Since Brady is part of the Patriot franchise, which in turn, is part of the NFL, does this order include all/and/or part of all parties concerned?

[ViriLudant]

Good question/and/or point. Since I see Yehoodi here, I'll revert to him. Since the judge has ordered that the rhetoric be toned down from both sides, does that include the Patriots organization/NFL/NFLPA/Brady? Since Brady is part of the Patriot franchise, which in turn, is part of the NFL, does this order include all/and/or part of all parties concerned?

I would think that the Patriots will (after the huge bombshell they unleashed today , which is oddly being ignored here, since it only demonstrates further that the NFL was biased against the Patriots) quiet down the rhetoric. Even though they're not directly involved , I'm sure that Berman will be listening .

[NewColtsFan]

I would think that the Patriots will (after the huge bombshell they unleashed today , which is oddly being ignored here, since it only demonstrates further that the NFL was biased against the Patriots) quiet down the rhetoric. Even though they're not directly involved , I'm sure that Berman will be listening .

 

Can you share the "huge bombshell"?     Since it's being ignored,  I'd like to learn about this.

 

So, I went and searched for whatever you think is a "huge bombshell"....    you mean the e-mails that the Pats released?    The e-mails they sent to the NFL?     You think those are a "huge bombshell"????

 

Believe me,  if they were,  they would've been released months ago when they might've made a difference in the case. 

 

It's not close to a "huge bombshell".....

 

The claim that the NFL was trying to spin the matter through ESPN  is no different than Bob Kraft standing up at the Super Bowl and demanding an apology from the NFL.    Or stating that the NFL could only punish the Patriots if the NFL found "overwhelming evidence and conclusive proof"....    As one of 32 NFL owners,  Kraft knew full well,  that conclusive proof was NOT the standard that the NFL needed to achieve.

 

But Kraft did all that to spin matters and try and shape the argument.     Spin.

 

More proof of the Patriots lack of cooperation which continues to this day...  especially this week when Kraft blasted the NFL yet again.      I tell you,  if this were the NBA and Mark Cuban was saying the same things Kraft was,  the NBA would fine Cuban millions and say his comments were not in the best interest of the NBA.

 

But Kraft knows that won't happen to him, so he says things that no other NFL owner does.   Once again,  pure spin.

 

What you think is a "huge bombshell" is not even a 4th of July firework.

 

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/13356212/new-england-patriots-release-emails-expressing-frustration-nfl-reporting

[ColtRider]

I would think that the Patriots will (after the huge bombshell they unleashed today , which is oddly being ignored here, since it only demonstrates further that the NFL was biased against the Patriots) quiet down the rhetoric. Even though they're not directly involved , I'm sure that Berman will be listening .

I hear ya, VL. But, that doesn't give me the answer from a legal perspective. Maybe someone with the answers can chime in?

[Superman]

Can you share the "huge bombshell"?     Since it's being ignored,  I'd like to learn about this.

 

So, I went and searched for whatever you think is a "huge bombshell"....    you mean the e-mails that the Pats released?    The e-mails they sent to the NFL?     You think those are a "huge bombshell"????

 

Believe me,  if they were,  they would've been released months ago when they might've made a difference in the case. 

 

It's not close to a "huge bombshell".....

 

The claim that the NFL was trying to spin the matter through ESPN  is no different than Bob Kraft standing up at the Super Bowl and demanding an apology from the NFL.    Or stating that the NFL could only punish the Patriots if the NFL found "overwhelming evidence and conclusive proof"....    As one of 32 NFL owners,  Kraft knew full well,  that conclusive proof was NOT the standard that the NFL needed to achieve.

 

But Kraft did all that to spin matters and try and shape the argument.     Spin.

 

More proof of the Patriots lack of cooperation which continues to this day...  especially this week when Kraft blasted the NFL yet again.      I tell you,  if this were the NBA and Mark Cuban was saying the same things Kraft was,  the NBA would fine Cuban millions and say his comments were not in the best interest of the NBA.

 

But Kraft knows that won't happen to him, so he says things that no other NFL owner does.   Once again,  pure spin.

 

What you think is a "huge bombshell" is not even a 4th of July firework.

 

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/13356212/new-england-patriots-release-emails-expressing-frustration-nfl-reporting

 

What's funny is that once the Wells report came out and those PSI numbers were released, they did nothing to exonerate the Patriots. They only reinforced the thinking that the Patriots had done something wrong.

 

The Patriots wanted to let the PSI numbers come out so that they could 'change the narrative' -- their words. 

 

In other words 'we want you to let us defend ourselves publicly so that we can get ahead of the media on this.' They were under investigation. I don't understand why they expected the league to bow to their wishes. When the authorities are investigating someone for potential charges, they don't share all their information with them and everyone else.

[jabbanobadda]

Can you share the "huge bombshell"?     Since it's being ignored,  I'd like to learn about this.

 

So, I went and searched for whatever you think is a "huge bombshell"....    you mean the e-mails that the Pats released?    The e-mails they sent to the NFL?     You think those are a "huge bombshell"????

 

Believe me,  if they were,  they would've been released months ago when they might've made a difference in the case. 

 

It's not close to a "huge bombshell".....

 

The claim that the NFL was trying to spin the matter through ESPN  is no different than Bob Kraft standing up at the Super Bowl and demanding an apology from the NFL.    Or stating that the NFL could only punish the Patriots if the NFL found "overwhelming evidence and conclusive proof"....    As one of 32 NFL owners,  Kraft knew full well,  that conclusive proof was NOT the standard that the NFL needed to achieve.

 

But Kraft did all that to spin matters and try and shape the argument.     Spin.

 

More proof of the Patriots lack of cooperation which continues to this day...  especially this week when Kraft blasted the NFL yet again.      I tell you,  if this were the NBA and Mark Cuban was saying the same things Kraft was,  the NBA would fine Cuban millions and say his comments were not in the best interest of the NBA.

 

But Kraft knows that won't happen to him, so he says things that no other NFL owner does.   Once again,  pure spin.

 

What you think is a "huge bombshell" is not even a 4th of July firework.

 

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/13356212/new-england-patriots-release-emails-expressing-frustration-nfl-reporting

Bwahahahahahaha! So let me get this straight...an e-mail from the Patriots complaining about ESPN reports about them cheating and the NFL says they didn't do it is a huge bombshell? LOL! Talk about grasping at straws...

What planet are these guys from?

I find it hilarious that even the Patriot organization blames it on everyone else and refuses to take any responsibility.

You did the crime, now do the time...

Hahahahahahahaahahaha!

[ColtsBlueFL]

Is this real life?

 

Hmm let me see.... uh yup!  what dimension you living in?

 

[jabbanobadda]

Patriots arguement..."Yeah we cheated, but not as bad as originally reported...we should be exonerated!

Unbelievable....Hahahahahahahaahahaha

[crazycolt1]

I find these comments by the Patriot fans quite amusing. It must be a tough job to sit for hours just thinking of ways to deflect and construe things to mean things they want to see and believe. I think some of it is just pure horse dung because deep down they do know the real truth they are just not going to admit it. When this whole thing started we got to hear about what the NFL couldn't do and what was gonna happen if they do. We got to hear how Brady and Kraft would not put up with none of this and those two would own the NFL. We got to hear about how their high priced lawyers would put Goodell in his place. Now what we see is Goodell and the rest of the NFL not being pushed by either Kraft or Brady. It has become very apparent that no one cares that Kraft gets mad. It has also become apparent that very few of NFL fans think Brady is being truthful. The truly sad part is this was all started by Brady himself. He had the chance to clear all of this up and chose not to. He has cost Kraft 1 million dollars. He has cost the Patriots two draft picks. Now even with given a chance to clear all of this up and reduce his 4 game suspension he still chooses to not cooperate. What is the real comedy is the Patriot fans who don't seem to care what Brady has cost his own team by doing one simple thing. Cooperate with a NFL investigation. He has turned this into a mountain when it didn't have to be that way. Patriot fans can make excuses, point fingers, deflect and do anything they want except accepting reality. Fandom has made too many Patriot fans turn the blind eye.

[weslo1812]

Stop listening to ESPN for once and read the actual reports.

I don't have TV and I don't listen to Radio..so I haven't been to listening to anything FYI. But it really doesn't take alot to see the lack of Integrity and honesty. Brady can't even keep his dang story straight for Peet sake. The dude is spitting lies to try and cover his rear aND find a way out of his suspension.

And even with thier being the possibility of Brady and the NFLPA getting this arbitration ruling overturned, it still will NOT clear his name from having had knowledge of the balls being deflated. The longer this goes on, the worse it gets for Brady, especially if they get nothing outta going to court. And he's only got himself to blame for NOT being completely compliant and open at the start.

[weslo1812]

Article from ESPN with some quotes from Moon on Brady dragging this out and how it's not helping his legacy!!

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13351658/tom-brady-hurting-only-deflategate-defiance

[Bad Morty]

What's funny is that once the Wells report came out and those PSI numbers were released, they did nothing to exonerate the Patriots. They only reinforced the thinking that the Patriots had done something wrong.

 

The Patriots wanted to let the PSI numbers come out so that they could 'change the narrative' -- their words. 

 

In other words 'we want you to let us defend ourselves publicly so that we can get ahead of the media on this.' They were under investigation. I don't understand why they expected the league to bow to their wishes. When the authorities are investigating someone for potential charges, they don't share all their information with them and everyone else.

We disagree on whether or not the numbers exonerate the Pats, and you have to acknowledge that there are many many people who know a lot more about science than you or I do who believe the actual PSI numbers DO exonerate them. But that aside, let's focus on "when the authorities are investigating someone for potential charges, they don't share their information with them"....This describes the relationship between the police and suspected criminals. Is that the relationship that an NFL team and the NFL league office should have with one another? They are supposed to be partners, aren't they? And you are ignoring the fact that the Patriots weren't actually looking for information to be shared...they were looking for FALSE information to STOP being shared.

 

There's an underlying narrative starting to emerge here that given Goodell's history shouldn't be dismissed out of hand...and that is that some higher ups in the league office with an axe to grind against the Patriots (i.e. Kensil) set out to trap the Patriots and catch them red-handed at something. Then when it backfired on them and they didn't get the results they were expecting, they went into cover up and spin mode and here we are.These emails and the smoke that's building around Kensil as the source of Mort's original report paint a pretty ugly picture of the league in all this.

[amfootball]

Not for nothing AM but I think you'll be eating popcorn during the whole first round of the 2016 draft and at least the first two games of 2015 with no Brady. 

The court case is all nothing. The judge either rules to uphold the suspension or vacates it. So Brady either serves 4 games or nothing. That is why in some respects it is surprising that Goddell did not lower the games on appeal to 2 as that number would have seemed more feasible and reasonable to the courts than him trying to compare ball deflation to PEDs. But then again the NFL has never been that smart as their motion to have this heard in NY actually helped Brady.

[Bad Morty]

The court case is all nothing. The judge either rules to uphold the suspension or vacates it. So Brady either serves 4 games or nothing. That is why in some respects it is surprising that Goddell did not lower the games on appeal to 2 as that number would have seemed more feasible and reasonable to the courts than him trying to compare ball deflation to PEDs. But then again the NFL has never been that smart as their motion to have this heard in NY actually helped Brady.

Either that or Goodell needed a way to get out of this mess without appearing to the bloodthirsty mobs as though he caved in to the Patriots. A judge vacating the suspension allows Roger to shrug and say "well...I did what I could guys...sorry"

[amfootball]

Either that or Goodell needed a way to get out of this mess without appearing to the bloodthirsty mobs as though he caved in to the Patriots. A judge vacating the suspension allows Roger to shrug and say "well...I did what I could guys...sorry"

I really don't believe that narrative anymore if I ever did. I think with Roger you have a power drunk commish who lacks all common sense when it comes to player relations as it relates to discipline which is why the PA loathes the guy. Now finally they have an owner in Kraft who has said the exact same things they have been saying for years that this league is simply unable to handle disciplinary affairs in a way that is fair and independent. The talk now is for the NFL to get an independent disciplinary arm and strip the commish of that power which would be the first time that has happened in 50 years, http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2535987-insider-buzz-owners-want-to-reduce-goodells-power-after-deflategate-debacle

 

Apparently the owners have had enough of him bungling literally everything he touches and turning simple violations like ball tampering into a national story for 7 months costing them millions in the process ...

[Cynjin]

so no thoughts on the actual content of what was released? I mean, if you are one who can readily "put the pieces together" and conclude that a guy going into a bathroom with footballs = a major cheating scandal headed up by Brady, then this should be even easier math here...it's pretty obvious the league engaged in a deliberate misinformation campaign against one of its own franchises, which calls into serious question their objectivity.

 

Oh this has turned into a *ing contest by both sides.  If it is found out that a high ranking official of the NFL purposely leaked false information to the press then he should be fired.  That does not take away from the other evidence and the I don't have to cooperate with this attitude of the Patriots as a whole.

[Cynjin]

And by the way...the Judge told both sides to tone it down...i.e. Brady and Goodell. The Patriots organization isn't involved in the court case.

 

 

Oh yeah, I'm sure the judge will look at it that way.  Because it's not like the Pats organization and Brady aren't on the same side.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Tell me, if a spiked ball goes from 13.5 to 13.2, is it deflated ?

 

Deflated, yes. Under inflated, No.

 

Tell me, if a spiked ball goes from 12.5 to 12.2, is it deflated?  Is it under inflated?

[BPindy]

I really don't believe that narrative anymore if I ever did. I think with Roger you have a power drunk commish who lacks all common sense when it comes to player relations as it relates to discipline which is why the PA loathes the guy. Now finally they have an owner in Kraft who has said the exact same things they have been saying for years that this league is simply unable to handle disciplinary affairs in a way that is fair and independent. The talk now is for the NFL to get an independent disciplinary arm and strip the commish of that power which would be the first time that has happened in 50 years, http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2535987-insider-buzz-owners-want-to-reduce-goodells-power-after-deflategate-debacle

Apparently the owners have had enough of him bungling literally everything he touches and turning simple violations like ball tampering into a national story for 7 months costing them millions in the process ...

Where on earth are you even getting these ideas? Even if Kraft wasn't completely alone in his thoughts about Goodell, the vast majority of owners back the commissioners stance on this case and wanted him to bring down punishment.

And just because some people in the PA have angrily discussed reducing the commissioner's power, it does NOT mean that 50 years of precedent is just going to be overturned.

[crazycolt1]

I really don't believe that narrative anymore if I ever did. I think with Roger you have a power drunk commish who lacks all common sense when it comes to player relations as it relates to discipline which is why the PA loathes the guy. Now finally they have an owner in Kraft who has said the exact same things they have been saying for years that this league is simply unable to handle disciplinary affairs in a way that is fair and independent. The talk now is for the NFL to get an independent disciplinary arm and strip the commish of that power which would be the first time that has happened in 50 years, http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2535987-insider-buzz-owners-want-to-reduce-goodells-power-after-deflategate-debacle

 

Apparently the owners have had enough of him bungling literally everything he touches and turning simple violations like ball tampering into a national story for 7 months costing them millions in the process ...

You keep forgetting it was Brady who turned this into a national story. Self explanatory.

[Bubbz]

Now for some humor. Rolling Stone has written an article on this saga and its title and subtitle are hilarious.

Tom Brady: Sympathy for the Devil

In the wake of 'Deflategate,' turns out all it took was Roger Goodell to make us not hate the man who has it all

This is the best excerpt of the piece (please note that I cleaned up the foul language)

"Tom Brady is easily one of the most aggressively unsympathetic people imaginable. He dumped an extraordinarily beautiful actress and married arguably the most famous supermodel in the world. His house looks as large as Charles Foster Kane's Xanadu, and it looks as tasteful as Olivia Newton-John's Xanadu. He dreamed of one day of being like his idol – who won four Super Bowls – got the same job as his idol, then won four super Bowls. That's not like dreaming of one day becoming an astronaut and then becoming an astronaut: that's like dreaming of becoming the first male astronaut to be in a reverse * in space, then blasting off into 69 redheaded Soviet cosmonauts in a rocket modeled after your own [expletive]. He could drag a team to a 9-7 record at age 45, and he will beat your team that season. Twice, if yours is the Jets. He models Uggs, for [expletive] sakes. On top of all that, the [expletive] is also good-looking.

Full story here, http://www.rollingstone.com/sports/features/tom-brady-sympathy-for-the-devil-20150731

Well damn, after reading that and all the other links u and ViriLudant have posted I have done a complete about face and now believe everything the pats organization has stated from the jump.

U guys realize that hardly anyone is reading your links? I'll bet some links have gone completely unread. I think everyone has formed their opinion at this point and it's kind of disturbing the lengths And amount of time y'all are putting in to convince people otherwise.

I think that it's realatively disturbing how much effort and time you guys have devoted into convincing a board of colts fans of the patriots innocence. I think that unfortunately it could serve as a metaphor for your life or outside persona, and I think it's something that you really need to explore in your free time And may quite possibly need professional help to overcome.

I am not flaming I am being seirous. The amount of delusion and paranoia that has surfaced in your guys posts is frightening and I am realatively concerned. I'm not even talking about the deniAl of that u all have over the situation, but the absurdity in your thought process that makes u think u are going to change people's minds here. Try to have a nice couple weeks over the course of the time leading up to the hearing. May I recommend Valium and clonidine?

[ColtsBlueFL]

The court case is all nothing. The judge either rules to uphold the suspension or vacates it. So Brady either serves 4 games or nothing. That is why in some respects it is surprising that Goddell did not lower the games on appeal to 2 as that number would have seemed more feasible and reasonable to the courts than him trying to compare ball deflation to PEDs. But then again the NFL has never been that smart as their motion to have this heard in NY actually helped Brady.

 

In essence, not really.  Judge  Berman has already 'sent it back' via his statement below in a court order-

 

Richard Berman, the U.S. District Court Judge who will be hearing the case in New York, issued a court order telling "all parties involved in this case to tone down their rhetoric."

He also ordered the two sides to try to resolve the situation on their own, using bold letters on the word "forthwith" to show he means business.

"If they have not already done so, the parties and counsel are directed forthwith actively to begin to pursue a mutually acceptable resolution of this case," he wrote.

 

I feel he wants a compromis, one we all thought we'd see. Reduction of 4 games to two.  He knows a mutually acceptable resolution is not dropping everything, that is why the case is before him.

 

Also, either side can appeal his ruling either way it goes.  And he knows his decision will be under scrutiny of law and precedent. 

[NFLfan]

In essence, not really. Judge Berman has already 'sent it back' via his statement below in a court order-

Richard Berman, the U.S. District Court Judge who will be hearing the case in New York, issued a court order telling "all parties involved in this case to tone down their rhetoric."

He also ordered the two sides to try to resolve the situation on their own, using bold letters on the word "forthwith" to show he means business.

"If they have not already done so, the parties and counsel are directed forthwith actively to begin to pursue a mutually acceptable resolution of this case," he wrote.

I feel he wants a compromis, one we all thought we'd see. Reduction of 4 games to two. He knows a mutually acceptable resolution is not dropping everything, that is why the case is before him.

Also, either side can appeal his ruling either way it goes. And he knows his decision will be under scrutiny of law and precedent.

Yep, the judge wants a compromise. See the following article. I don't always trust what Mike Florio writes, as he seems so biased in favor of Brady and the Pats. Like Pats fans he has lost credibility. But this is an interesting article by him. He appears to believe that the NFLPA and Brady have the upper hand here but seems to think the two sides will come to a settlement.

I hope an end is near because this has gone on far too long.

Quote:

Fifth, it’s clear that Judge Berman won’t be inclined to keep any documents under seal, based on this sentence: “I always have considerable difficulty approving any sealed documents, given the keen public interest in these matters and the public’s right to know.” In other words, the full transcript of the Tom Brady appeal hearing eventually will be released, if the case isn’t settled.

That’s a win for the NFLPA and Brady. Although the NFL would say that the parties agreed to seal the transcript, a source with knowledge of the situation tells PFT that the NFLPA agreed to seal the transcript at the insistence of the NFL.

The best way to keep the transcript from ever being released to the public (barring a leak) would be to settle the case before the judge has to decide whether to approve the filing of the transcript under seal. And Judge Berman knows that. And now the NFL and NFLPA know that he knows that.

I’m tempted to think the case could settle this week, without Goodell and Brady having to appear before Judge Berman. But if the two sides are at an impasse over whether a settlement would include a suspension of any duration, it won’t be easy to break that log jam without getting an idea of how Judge Berman feels about what amounts to an all-or-nothing proposition decision in court.

Eventually, Judge Berman may have to privately inform the side against which he’s inclined to rule that it will either accept the best deal it can get, or it will get nothing and like it.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/08/01/judge-berman-takes-full-control-of-brady-case/

[amfootball]

In essence, not really.  Judge  Berman has already 'sent it back' via his statement below in a court order-

 

Richard Berman, the U.S. District Court Judge who will be hearing the case in New York, issued a court order telling "all parties involved in this case to tone down their rhetoric."

He also ordered the two sides to try to resolve the situation on their own, using bold letters on the word "forthwith" to show he means business.

"If they have not already done so, the parties and counsel are directed forthwith actively to begin to pursue a mutually acceptable resolution of this case," he wrote.

 

I feel he wants a compromis, one we all thought we'd see. Reduction of 4 games to two.  He knows a mutually acceptable resolution is not dropping everything, that is why the case is before him.

 

Also, either side can appeal his ruling either way it goes.  And he knows his decision will be under scrutiny of law and precedent. 

Sure. I was not talking about the NFL and PA coming to a settlement which I desperately hope happens. That obviously could happen with a reduction in games but I was talking about the case going before the court. If Berman does rule on the four games it is an all or nothing deal. Either he vacates it or upholds the 4 games.

[amfootball]

Yep, the judge wants a compromise. See the following article. I don't always trust what Mike Florio writes, as he seems so biased in favor of Brady and the Pats. Like Pats fans he has lost credibility. But this is an interesting article by him. He appears to believe that the NFLPA and Brady have the upper hand here but seems to think the two sides will come to a settlement.

I hope an end is near because this has gone on far too long.

Quote:

Fifth, it’s clear that Judge Berman won’t be inclined to keep any documents under seal, based on this sentence: “I always have considerable difficulty approving any sealed documents, given the keen public interest in these matters and the public’s right to know.” In other words, the full transcript of the Tom Brady appeal hearing eventually will be released, if the case isn’t settled.

That’s a win for the NFLPA and Brady. Although the NFL would say that the parties agreed to seal the transcript, a source with knowledge of the situation tells PFT that the NFLPA agreed to seal the transcript at the insistence of the NFL.

The best way to keep the transcript from ever being released to the public (barring a leak) would be to settle the case before the judge has to decide whether to approve the filing of the transcript under seal. And Judge Berman knows that. And now the NFL and NFLPA know that he knows that.

I’m tempted to think the case could settle this week, without Goodell and Brady having to appear before Judge Berman. But if the two sides are at an impasse over whether a settlement would include a suspension of any duration, it won’t be easy to break that log jam without getting an idea of how Judge Berman feels about what amounts to an all-or-nothing proposition decision in court.

Eventually, Judge Berman may have to privately inform the side against which he’s inclined to rule that it will either accept the best deal it can get, or it will get nothing and like it.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/08/01/judge-berman-takes-full-control-of-brady-case/

Thanks for posting. Great take here from Florio. I do get the sense that judge wants this settled without him having to do it. And that is a win for the PA for sure about the documents not getting sealed from the appeal. So he is more or less strong arming the two sides to come to some sort of a settlement. That last line about him informing the losing side they will get nothing so just settle is intriguing to say the least. I really, really like this judge. It is nice to see common sense up close for a change versus the kangaroo court that is the NFL.

[amfootball]

Well damn, after reading that and all the other links u and ViriLudant have posted I have done a complete about face and now believe everything the pats organization has stated from the jump.

U guys realize that hardly anyone is reading your links? I'll bet some links have gone completely unread. I think everyone has formed their opinion at this point and it's kind of disturbing the lengths And amount of time y'all are putting in to convince people otherwise.

I think that it's realatively disturbing how much effort and time you guys have devoted into convincing a board of colts fans of the patriots innocence. I think that unfortunately it could serve as a metaphor for your life or outside persona, and I think it's something that you really need to explore in your free time And may quite possibly need professional help to overcome.

I am not flaming I am being seirous. The amount of delusion and paranoia that has surfaced in your guys posts is frightening and I am realatively concerned. I'm not even talking about the deniAl of that u all have over the situation, but the absurdity in your thought process that makes u think u are going to change people's minds here. Try to have a nice couple weeks over the course of the time leading up to the hearing. May I recommend Valium and clonidine?

You can always choose to not click on the thread ... and I am not sure why it would surprise you that Pats fans are here with a thread about their team and QB that was started by a Colts fan ...

[jabbanobadda]

You keep forgetting it was Brady who turned this into a national story. Self explanatory.

Please don't confuse AM with facts.

[ColtsBlueFL]

I really don't believe that narrative anymore if I ever did. I think with Roger you have a power drunk commish who lacks all common sense when it comes to player relations as it relates to discipline which is why the PA loathes the guy. Now finally they have an owner in Kraft who has said the exact same things they have been saying for years that this league is simply unable to handle disciplinary affairs in a way that is fair and independent. The talk now is for the NFL to get an independent disciplinary arm and strip the commish of that power which would be the first time that has happened in 50 years, http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2535987-insider-buzz-owners-want-to-reduce-goodells-power-after-deflategate-debacle

 

Apparently the owners have had enough of him bungling literally everything he touches and turning simple violations like ball tampering into a national story for 7 months costing them millions in the process ...

 

So, 3 owners is the level necessary to 'Strip the commissioner' of his power?  First off, tjhis is a collectively bargained item.  Owners may take away Goodells power to hear an Appeal, but they won't take away his power to discipline in the first place.  And Second, if the owners do want to bargain moving appeals to an independent arena, what will the NFLPA give back to the owners in return?  Something fairly substantial, I'm sure.  The NFLPA cannot 'Strip' powers from Goodell without  giving something in return in the bargaining process.  These owners are smart businessmen, and know how to negotiate.  It will be bargained, if it indeed even happens.

[amfootball]

So, 3 owners is the level necessary to 'Strip the commissioner' of his power?  First off, tjhis is a collectively bargained item.  Owners may take away Goodells power to hear an Appeal, but they won't take away his power to discipline in the first place.  And Second, if the owners do want to bargain moving appeals to an independent arena, what will the NFLPA give back to the owners in return?  Something fairly substantial, I'm sure.  The NFLPA cannot 'Strip' powers from Goodell without  giving something in return in the bargaining process.  These owners are smart businessmen, and know how to negotiate.  It will be bargained, if it indeed even happens.

I have no idea. I quoted the article because news like this does not materialize out of thin air and if you look at the past 12 months this has been a horrific year for the league in terms of disciplinary actions so I don't think it is surprising that some owners want something more independent. You are right though it would have to be collectively bargained.

[GoColts8818]

Please don't confuse AM with facts.

facts. Those are the things you make up to support whatever point you want right?

[dw49]

The court case is all nothing. The judge either rules to uphold the suspension or vacates it. So Brady either serves 4 games or nothing. That is why in some respects it is surprising that Goddell did not lower the games on appeal to 2 as that number would have seemed more feasible and reasonable to the courts than him trying to compare ball deflation to PEDs. But then again the NFL has never been that smart as their motion to have this heard in NY actually helped Brady.

 

I realize that but I think 2 still might be a possibly as the judge instructed the two parties to work it out ?

 

 

******   sorry all as I posted this without reading forward in the thread and seeing others already covered this for me.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Thanks for posting. Great take here from Florio. I do get the sense that judge wants this settled without him having to do it. And that is a win for the PA for sure about the documents not getting sealed from the appeal. So he is more or less strong arming the two sides to come to some sort of a settlement. That last line about him informing the losing side they will get nothing so just settle is intriguing to say the least. I really, really like this judge. It is nice to see common sense up close for a change versus the kangaroo court that is the NFL.

 

Well Florio believes the NFLPA has the upper hand, but I've been doing some checking on my own.  There's a few hurdles for the NFLPA-

 

First forum shopping.  The NFLPA lost in it's bid to gain the venue of their choice in Minnesota.  It is now n the Southern District NY.

 

Next is destruction of his cell phone.  "Goodell’s finding that Brady had destroyed a cellphone with nearly 10,000 text messages that Wells had requested on the day before he was set to meet with Wells could also prove to be more significant in the Southern District of New York, which has taken a hard line against the destruction of electronic evidence, according to Ricardo Cestero, a sports and media litigator with Greenberg Glusker Fields Claman & Machtinger LLP."

 

The NFL knew what it was doing there, and the court will not be moved by Brady's 'explanations.'

 

“I think the destruction of the cellphone is going to be a real problem for Brady in the Southern District,” Cestero said. “I think it would have been a problem for him in Minnesota also, but I think it will be an even bigger problem for him in the Southern District.”

 

Finally, proving unfairness in the NFLPA's main points to vacate the award - that Brady was not on notice that under inflating footballs could result in a suspension; that the NFL lacks consistency in testing the air pressure of game balls; and that the decision is the “product of a fundamentally unfair process and was issued by an evidently partial arbitrator” or, in other words, that Goodell was biased.

 

The NFL contends the decision was based upon the conclusions of the independent Wells report, and a process agreed to in collective bargaining allowing Commissioner wide discretion to punish under the Conduct Detrimental to the League clause. The CBA does also allow him to sit in as Arbitrator to hear appeals of disciplinary decisions.

 

"With federal courts generally giving deference to arbitration judgments, attorneys say it is unlikely the court will question Goodell’s evidentiary conclusions and credibility judgments, but attorneys are split on whether the suspension will be overturned."  And in earlier threads I've pointed out 3 separate U.S. Supreme Court rulings essentially asking Courts to leave arbitration agreements and awards alone.

 

OTOH, Some out there feel the NFLPA did not bargain away ther rights to a neutral Arbitrator in appeal, and the Goodell is not neutral.  That's what Kessler needs to push through in order to prevail, IMO. But then NFL can appeal that Supreme court rulings state the District court overstepped their bounds. So yes, this could get nasty, and it appears the Judge wants it resolved before court date arrives.

 

"However, Cestero said he believes the only way that Brady has any real chance of having the suspension overturned is to convince the judge that the punishment somehow exceeded the commissioner’s authority and that the CBA does not allow for this sort of penalty."

“Given the factual findings [Goodell] made and the credibility determinations he made, I would be very surprised if any judge looks at it and finds that a four-game suspension is excessive, particularly in light of the cellphone destruction,” Cestero said.

 

Finally, to get an injunction, (If Brady's team feels it becomes necessary at some point in time) Brady will have to show that there's a good chance he will win the suit and that sitting out the four games will result in irreparable harm to him, the first of which is unclear to me, the second an easier target to hit.  Kessler could probably get this accomplished, if needed. 

 

"But Judge Berman has agreed to Fast Track the case.  The deadline for final written submissions is now set for Aug. 14, with oral arguments set for Aug. 19, according to Judge Berman’s order. A pretrial conference is scheduled for Aug. 12.

The parties had said they hoped the expedited process would allow a decision to be made by Sept. 4, “when Mr. Brady’s team must prepare for its first regular season game.” The Patriots are set to play in the NFL Thursday night opener on Sept. 10 against the Pittsburgh Steelers."

 

And I found this nugget as well on the second district, despite some reports from amfootball to the contrary-

 

"Michael Devorkin, a partner at Golenbock Eiseman Assor Bell & Peskoe LLP, told Law360 on Thursday that Brady and the NFLPA are likely facing an uphill battle because the Southern District of New York has historically been very deferential to arbitration awards and to processes established by the collective bargaining agreement, and somewhat deferential to business."

 

 

The NFL is represented by Robert Hardy Pees of Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld LLP.

The NFLPA is represented by Jeffrey L. Kessler of Winston & Strawn LLP.

[amfootball]

Well Florio believes the NFLPA has the upper hand, but I've been doing some checking on my own.  There's a few hurdles for the NFLPA-

 

First forum shopping.  The NFLPA lost in it's bid to gain the venue of their choice in Minnesota.  It is now n the Southern District NY.

 

Next is destruction of his cell phone.  "Goodell’s finding that Brady had destroyed a cellphone with nearly 10,000 text messages that Wells had requested on the day before he was set to meet with Wells could also prove to be more significant in the Southern District of New York, which has taken a hard line against the destruction of electronic evidence, according to Ricardo Cestero, a sports and media litigator with Greenberg Glusker Fields Claman & Machtinger LLP."

 

The NFL knew what it was doing there, and the court will not be moved by Brady's 'explanations.'

 

“I think the destruction of the cellphone is going to be a real problem for Brady in the Southern District,” Cestero said. “I think it would have been a problem for him in Minnesota also, but I think it will be an even bigger problem for him in the Southern District.”

 

Finally, proving unfairness in the NFLPA's main points to vacate the award - that Brady was not on notice that under inflating footballs could result in a suspension; that the NFL lacks consistency in testing the air pressure of game balls; and that the decision is the “product of a fundamentally unfair process and was issued by an evidently partial arbitrator” or, in other words, that Goodell was biased.

 

The NFL contends the decision was based upon the conclusions of the independent Wells report, and a process agreed to in collective bargaining allowing Commissioner wide discretion to punish under the Conduct Detrimental to the League clause. The CBA does also allow him to sit in as Arbitrator to hear appeals of disciplinary decisions.

 

"With federal courts generally giving deference to arbitration judgments, attorneys say it is unlikely the court will question Goodell’s evidentiary conclusions and credibility judgments, but attorneys are split on whether the suspension will be overturned."  And in earlier threads I've pointed out 3 separate U.S. Supreme Court rulings essentially asking Courts to leave arbitration agreements and awards alone.

 

OTOH, Some out there feel the NFLPA did not bargain away ther rights to a neutral Arbitrator in appeal, and the Goodell is not neutral.  That's what Kessler needs to push through in order to prevail, IMO. But then NFL can appeal that Supreme court rulings state the District court overstepped their bounds. So yes, this could get nasty, and it appears the Judge wants it resolved before court date arrives.

 

"However, Cestero said he believes the only way that Brady has any real chance of having the suspension overturned is to convince the judge that the punishment somehow exceeded the commissioner’s authority and that the CBA does not allow for this sort of penalty."

“Given the factual findings [Goodell] made and the credibility determinations he made, I would be very surprised if any judge looks at it and finds that a four-game suspension is excessive, particularly in light of the cellphone destruction,” Cestero said.

 

Finally, to get an injunction, (If Brady's team feels it becomes necessary at some point in time) Brady will have to show that there's a good chance he will win the suit and that sitting out the four games will result in irreparable harm to him, the first of which is unclear to me, the second an easier target to hit.  Kessler could probably get this accomplished, if needed. 

 

"But Judge Berman has agreed to Fast Track the case.  The deadline for final written submissions is now set for Aug. 14, with oral arguments set for Aug. 19, according to Judge Berman’s order. A pretrial conference is scheduled for Aug. 12.

The parties had said they hoped the expedited process would allow a decision to be made by Sept. 4, “when Mr. Brady’s team must prepare for its first regular season game.” The Patriots are set to play in the NFL Thursday night opener on Sept. 10 against the Pittsburgh Steelers."

 

And I found this nugget as well on the second district, despite some reports from amfootball to the contrary-

 

"Michael Devorkin, a partner at Golenbock Eiseman Assor Bell & Peskoe LLP, told Law360 on Thursday that Brady and the NFLPA are likely facing an uphill battle because the Southern District of New York has historically been very deferential to arbitration awards and to processes established by the collective bargaining agreement, and somewhat deferential to business."

 

 

The NFL is represented by Robert Hardy Pees of Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld LLP.

The NFLPA is represented by Jeffrey L. Kessler of Winston & Strawn LLP.

Nothing is a sure thing either way. Brady has a very good case. But who knows? None of us are lawyers and the media people and so called legal analysts have been wrong at just about every turn. And Brady and the PA are not arguing about the CBA but the violation of the CBA by the commissioner as well as other league precedents that he has made up as he has gone along, i.e. equating an equipment violation to PED use. So there is that as well to factor as well. Due process was sorely lacking here.

 

I do think this judge is doing an outstanding job with forcing the two sides to talk and reach a settlement. He is also pressuring as well as he urges for the settlement with the potential for the appeal records to be released. I really do hope cooler minds prevail and a settlement is reached but there is a part of me that would also love to see Goodell have to testify as well. I od think Kraft and the other owners are behind this thing getting solved before the season starts but I don't have my hopes up just yet ...

[ColtsBlueFL]

Nothing is a sure thing either way. Brady has a very good case. But who knows? None of us are lawyers and the media people and so called legal analysts have been wrong at just about every turn. And Brady and the PA are not arguing about the CBA but the violation of the CBA by the commissioner as well as other league precedents that he has made up as he has gone along, i.e. comparing an equipment violation to PED use. So there is that as well to factor as well. Due process was sorely lacking here.

 

I do think this judge is doing an outstanding job with forcing the two sides to talk and reach a settlement. He is also pressuring as well as he urges for the settlement with the potential for the appeal records to be released. I really do hope cooler minds prevail and a settlement is reached but there is a part of me that would also love to see Goodell have to testify as well. I od think Kraft and the other owners are behind this thing getting solved before the season starts but I don't have my hopes up just yet ...

 

That's why I subscribed to a Legal news service website, one that specifically deals in NY cases with a preference on Sports.  I can follow full details of this case and opinions of other NY attorneys (who know and deal in those courts) and not rely on second hand information from the Florio's of the world...

 

Law360

 

BTW, there are indeed a few lawyers on board here as members, but they are staying quiet, and I can understand why.  This isn't an extension of their job, it is a place to come forget the job and talk football.  Now that training camp is starting, the Colts forum should be really starting to flourish.

[amfootball]

That's why I subscribed to a Legal news service website, one that specifically deals in NY cases with a preference on Sports.  I can follow full details of this case and opinions of other NY attorneys (who know and deal in those courts) and not rely on second hand information from the Florio's of the world...

 

Law360

That is great. Please continue to share what they say as the case progresses.

[ColtRider]

That's why I subscribed to a Legal news service website, one that specifically deals in NY cases with a preference on Sports.  I can follow full details of this case and opinions of other NY attorneys (who know and deal in those courts) and not rely on second hand information from the Florio's of the world...

 

Law360

 

BTW, there are indeed a few lawyers on board here as members, but they are staying quiet, and I can understand why.  This isn't an extension of their job, it is a place to come forget the job and talk football.  Now that training camp is starting, the Colts forum should be really starting to flourish.

Thanks for all the information, ColtsBlueFL! I for one, will be following your posts very closely from now on (like I haven't already) concerning the rest of this debacle. Appreciate the sharing of your subscription.

[weslo1812]

Nothing is a sure thing either way. Brady has a very good case. But who knows? None of us are lawyers and the media people and so called legal analysts have been wrong at just about every turn. And Brady and the PA are not arguing about the CBA but the violation of the CBA by the commissioner as well as other league precedents that he has made up as he has gone along, i.e. equating an equipment violation to PED use. So there is that as well to factor as well. Due process was sorely lacking here.

I do think this judge is doing an outstanding job with forcing the two sides to talk and reach a settlement. He is also pressuring as well as he urges for the settlement with the potential for the appeal records to be released. I really do hope cooler minds prevail and a settlement is reached but there is a part of me that would also love to see Goodell have to testify as well. I od think Kraft and the other owners are behind this thing getting solved before the season starts but I don't have my hopes up just yet ...

Except Goodell did NOT violate the CBA in issuing this punishment. This case was unique and different from any other cases. Goodell states this and he also states in his report how it is different from many of the cases that are being brought up. So Goodell went with the punishment of a violation that he though was closest to what Brady had done. A first time PED violator. And he gives clear reasoning as to why. Here are two quotes from his report stating where he within the bounds of the CBA and has the authority to issue that punishment that was issued.

"Second, the CBA does not require itemization of specific catagories of misconduct that may be deemed "conduct detrimental" and subject to discipline. As the CBA-Perscribed standard."

Also he says: "NFL player contracts make clear, such determinations are left to the "reasonable judgment" of the commissioner. Mr. Brady had knowledge and notice of that fact."

Roger clearly states and proves his authority to make the decision for punishment that was made. It's pretty dang clear!!!

[southwest1]

Now for some humor. Rolling Stone has written an article on this saga and its title and subtitle are hilarious.

 

Tom Brady: Sympathy for the Devil

In the wake of 'Deflategate,' turns out all it took was Roger Goodell to make us not hate the man who has it all

 

This is the best excerpt of the piece (please note that I cleaned up the foul language)

 

"Tom Brady is easily one of the most aggressively unsympathetic people imaginable. He dumped an extraordinarily beautiful actress and married arguably the most famous supermodel in the world. His house looks as large as Charles Foster Kane's Xanadu, and it looks as tasteful as Olivia Newton-John's Xanadu. He dreamed of one day of being like his idol – who won four Super Bowls – got the same job as his idol, then won four super Bowls. That's not like dreaming of one day becoming an astronaut and then becoming an astronaut: that's like dreaming of becoming the first male astronaut to be in a reverse * in space, then blasting off into 69 redheaded Soviet cosmonauts in a rocket modeled after your own [expletive]. He could drag a team to a 9-7 record at age 45, and he will beat your team that season. Twice, if yours is the Jets. He models Uggs, for [expletive] sakes. On top of all that, the [expletive] is also good-looking.

Full story here, http://www.rollingstone.com/sports/features/tom-brady-sympathy-for-the-devil-20150731

 

 

This paragraph from your linked Rolling Stone Magazine story is more than a bit over the top AMF: 

 

"Worse, the Wells Report – which, astoundingly, was three times longer than the report on Ray Rice knocking his fiancée out – then concluded that there was no direct evidence of Brady's cheating, after Ted Wells stated that Brady answered every question put to him and provided "substantial cooperation." Attorney, sometime-sportswriter and avowed Houston Texans fan Steph Stradley has devoted months to aggregating all the ways in which the prosecutorial presentation of the "independent" report and Goodell's judgments and assertions based on it can be torn into tissue paper. Further, Goodell's leaning on Brady's cellphone as evidence of some sinister obstruction of the investigation contradicts Wells' own disinterest in physically obtaining the phone and just basic common sense. On the latter, the NFL had access to the phones of the equipment personnel Brady supposedly conspired with. Have you ever gotten a text from someone? Have you noticed that their words then show up on your phone?" 

 

How many times must NE fans be reminded of this. [Not all but many] that beyond a reasonable doubt is not the legal standard here. More probable than not is due to Spy Gate. If "substantial cooperation" was indeed utilized by Brady with Mr. Wells why did Troy Vincent recommend an additional suspension after reading the Wells Report then? I'm get sick & tired of this misguided notion that since Ted Wells had text messages from the deflator Brady is somehow off the hook for providing any evidence on his end confirming the actual text messaging interaction between the other 2 equipment managers for NE. You promised to comply Tom don't throw attitude & legal jargon my way. Just shut up & comply. Thank you.  

 

You keep forgetting it was Brady who turned this into a national story. Self explanatory.

Bingo CC1! Brady couldn't have ended all this nonsense at the 1st conference but he chose not to. He gave the scandal legs not Goodell, not the refs, not the Colts, & not Ted Wells or Troy Vincent. 

 

It astounds me that no NE fan yet has said "You know Brady put his own behind in hot water & he created his own nightmare here."