DeflateGate: Brady suspension expected (mega merge / updated)

[jvan1973]

lol. Where was your outrage over Seattle last year when they won having multiple players suspended for PEDs and holding illegal practices?

the players were suspended yes? That's how it works. Brady will be among those other players who violated the rules and misses games because of it

[amfootball]

Irrelevant.  First, I wasn't aware of it so I didn't comment on it.  Had I, nothing would change.  

 

Cheating is cheating.  There are varying levels of impact of cheating, thus there will be varying levels of punishment.

 

You still haven't answered:

 

Do you believe Tom Brady is innocent or guilty of this?

Now that you are, how do you feel about the Seahawks and integrity of the game?

 

I have already answered about Brady through this thread ...

[AndreRison]

2.) FACT: Brady lied. He said he never knew one of the equipment personnel, and didn't even know what the man's responsibilities were! This is despite the guy working for New England the entirety of Tom Brady's career, and despite the fact Tom Brady is referenced in text messages and referenced having provided sports memorabilia as gifts.

I think Tom thought he could use the other texter as a buffer between him and McNally, allowing himself plausible deniability. He should have bought them,

there very own Motorola Razors back when this started.

[amfootball]

the players were suspended yes? That's how it works. Brady will be among those other players who violated the rules and misses games because of it

Not really has Sherman got off BUT who is arguing that? But the integrity of the game? That has always been soiled every year by teams, SB winning teams.

[Warhorse]

I am not enjoying this roasting of Tommy near as much as I am pi$$ed about that teams lack of regard for an even playing field. In my eyes, the last decade or more of contests between our teams stands forever questioned. 

[amfootball]

Umm, they still catch flak for that.  All you have to do is go to any major sports website's game day chat room for any seahawks playoff game.  And that one clown that traversed these forums was reminded of it plenty when he clowned around in here too.

I think that SB forever ridded this board of Seahwaks fans. I think his name was srobinson and he was a good poster. I miss him. But really what is left to say after the pick by Wilson? At this point hard not to see Luck as volumes better than Wilson after his lousy last 2 playoff games ... and that pick ...

[jvan1973]

Not really has Sherman got off BUT who is arguing that? But the integrity of the game? That has always been soiled every year by teams, SB winning teams.

No not every team has soiled the integrity of the game. A few have. The patriots multiple times now

[amfootball]

No not every team has soiled the integrity of the game. A few have. The patriots multiple times now

Most offending teams have done a lot worse than camera location and ball air pressure violations ...

[OffensivelyPC]

I think that SB forever ridded this board of Seahwaks fans. I think his name was srobinson and he was a good poster. I miss him. But really what is left to say after the pick by Wilson? At this point hard not to see Luck as volumes better than Wilson after his lousy last 2 playoff games ... and that pick ...

It wasn't srobinson, his name was the dude or something.  He trolled quite a bit.  Don't remember, maybe didn't know, the srobinson guy. 

 

The pick was bad, but I think it was more a receiver error and a good play by butler.  Not a great choice, but I think the play calling is mroe questionable than anything else.  Don't buy the justification that they wanted to get 3 plays...  you put the ball in your best players hands, and they didn't do that.

[amfootball]

It wasn't srobinson, his name was the dude or something.  He trolled quite a bit.  Don't remember, maybe didn't know, the srobinson guy. 

 

The pick was bad, but I think it was more a receiver error and a good play by butler.  Not a great choice, but I think the play calling is mroe questionable than anything else.  Don't buy the justification that they wanted to get 3 plays...  you put the ball in your best players hands, and they didn't do that.

Yes, I remember the Dude.   He was a character. Thought Vontae Davis was a bum if I remember correctly. lol

 

srobinson was cool. Very knowledgeable about the game and his team. I miss him. We had some good conversations right before the SB and then he disappeared after.

 

Yeah, def. good play by Butler but Wilson can't throw that ball there. The pick/rub was blown up by Browner and he just threw blindly and then asked Carroll what happened. It was second down. Just toss it to the stands. But for sure terrible, terrible play call. Not sure how that teams recovers from that. Just brutal.

[jvan1973]

Most offending teams have done a lot worse than camera location and ball air pressure violations ...

the cover up is the bigger issue.

[wig]

Most offending teams have done a lot worse than camera location and ball air pressure violations ...

How many teams have had a first round pick taken away and their QB suspended for compromising the integrity of the game?

[BlueShoe]

The long-awaited Ted Wells report is in, and we have had plenty of time to read the details of the investigation. A lot of people are debating the wording of "More probable then not", but those are the NFL's words, not Ted's. According to the NFL rules, if the violation is "More probable then not", then sanctions will be issued.

So essentially, the report says that Tom Brady, Jim McNally, and John Jastremski should be subject to NFL punishment. Troy Vincent, as reported, will "hand down" any and all punishment, Roger Goodell will not be directly involved.

So after I read the entire report (skipped the scientific study at the end), here's my best guess:

McNally and Jastremski: Both will be gone, never to work for an NFL team again, probably banned from even attending the games. Will likely be hit by fines, but on a smaller scale. It will be easy to "banish" these guys, considering the fans don't pay to see the equipment managers.

Robert Kraft/Patriots Organization: The report suggests that the Patriots organization withheld McNally from a follow-up interview, and this was a violation of the league's investigation rules. They were not "fully cooperating" with the investigation, and even withheld the identity of "Jastremski's Friend." This is probably good enough for a $100,000 fine, paid by Robert Kraft. I don't believe a draft pick should be forfeited, and Kraft should not be suspended.

Bill Belichick: There's no evidence that ties Belichick to this, he will probably not get fined, or suspended.

Tom Brady: This is the hardest one to pinpoint, because at this point, 'deflating footballs' is not his only violation. On my count we got:

o Conspiracy to circumvent the rules, along with McNally and Jastremski.

o Withheld cell phone records from investigators, not "fully cooperating" with their efforts.

o Lied to Head Coach Bill Belichick, denying any involvement.

o Lied to the press, in his press conferences regarding the controversy in the days leading up to the Superbowl.

o Lied to the investigators, claiming that he did not know McNally before the AFCCG, while Jastremski's account directly contradicts Brady's claims. Several of Tom's claims made to the investigators directly contradicted what he said during the press conferences.

o By repeatedly denying involvement, he forced the NFL to bring in an independent investigating team. That investigation took over three months, cost the NFL several thousands (or millions) of dollars. The whole time the investigation went on, speculation and the image of a "cheating champion" stained a league that has hit an all-time low from a PR perspective. This would certainly qualify as "conduct detrimental to the league", which got Greg Hardy a 10-game ban.

So this is what I would propose.

$100,000 fine, paid by Tom Brady ("Conspiring" and insisting on using deflated, non-approved footballs)

Unpaid Suspension, 6 Games (For violating the "integrity of the game" in regards to Rule 2, Section 1)

Consecutive Unpaid Suspension, 10 Games (For "conduct detrimental to the league", his deceit led to a costly and time-consuming investigation that makes the league look awful. The fact that your World Champion is a "cheater" is something some fans can't get past, and suggests to young fans that "cheaters" will, in fact, prosper.)

Out for an entire season, eligible for return in 2016 season would send the message. And you factor in that he lied to Belichick, and by proxy, lied to Robert Kraft...it's possible we have seen the last of Tom Brady as a New England Patriot.

What do you think? Would these sanctions be appropriate? Too light, too heavy?

Your proposal makes a lot of sense. I doubt Brady will even get suspended at all though. He should. If Andrew Luck ever pulled a stunt like this and the patriots were on the other side then I am sure they would be calling for his head. They would probably want him banned from the NFL.

The only people who are even fighting this are people somehow tied to the patriots organization or fan base.

[amfootball]

the cover up is the bigger issue.

What cover up? The Pats said they did not tamper with the balls and the report was ultimately inconclusive.

[jvan1973]

What cover up? The Pats said they did not tamper with the balls and the report was ultimately inconclusive.

the league won't see it that way

[wig]

What cover up? The Pats said they did not tamper with the balls and the report was ultimately inconclusive.

No, it's not.

Didn't you just say you were tired of the whole thing, anyways?

[Gramz]

the league won't see it that way

No they won't.  But then there are also those who refuse to see what is happening, what has already happened, and what is about to happen.

 

 I have been biting my tongue for the past two hours  

[amfootball]

the league won't see it that way

THe league is going to have a fight and a half on its hands if they go over the top with punishment based on that report ...

[GoColts8818]

WOW!  

Golic comes off like and ignorant person.   

I don't ever listen to their show, because I think it's terrible banter, but what world does Golic live in?  

Most people already associate the Patriots with cheating.   

It's not going away.   

  

When people look back on the record books they'll say, "Yeah they won those Super Bowls, BUT..."   

  

But being the key word. Their accomplishments are mired.

yeah, I just listened to the Hassleback interview this morning they were having a hard time being quiet and letting him make his points but Tims stuff was good and put some basic knowledge out there that needed to be out there. Like the part before each game officials ask teams about concerns going into the game and they are under obligation to either act on those concerns or inform the other team those concerns exist pretty much destroying the whole sting operation argument.

[NFLfan]

Yes. 20 minutes before and that is when Walt lost track of the balls. Firs time apparently in 19 years for him and he did not think to re-gauge after Grigson gave him a heads-up before the game ...

If everyone is playing by the rules, it is not necessary to re-gauge. Anderson had already checked the balls. The only people who are to blame for this are those who intentionally and deliberately broke the rules: Brady and the Pats.

[amfootball]

yeah, I just listened to the Hassleback interview this morning they were having a hard time being quiet and letting him make his points but Tims stuff was good and put some basic knowledge out there that needed to be out there. Like the part before each game officials ask teams about concerns going into the game and they are under obligation to either act on those concerns or inform the other team those concerns exist pretty much destroying the whole sting operation argument.

The problem is the officials did neither. They did not tell the Pats and they did not gauge the balls prior to kickoff after Anderson lost track of them after the pre-game inspection. This is where the league failed big time and as a result the game was played with what might have been illegal footballs and then the need for the investigation because of the elements getting to the balls and the science, etc.

[jvan1973]

THe league is going to have a fight and a half on its hands if they go over the top with punishment based on that report ...

no they won't. they don't need concrete proof. The 2008 memo from Goodell explains that. And aa you have pointed out many times in the past, the PA voted to give Roger all the power

[ColtsBlueFL]

The October game was vs the Jets and it was after the game that Brady was complaining that the refs blew the balls up to 16 psi well above the limit. But the "report" never got an explanation from the ref doing that game as to why that happened.

 

I expect you can support your claim with evidence for a viable source of this transgression?  You know the official PSI for every football is 13psi !!  They allow up to .5 psi less, and .5 psi more.  Every game ball receives the Referees mark that the ball falls within that spec. Every game ball, for both teams. There's no way I believe any game ball was pumped up to 3 psi greater then official limit, and 3.5 psi over maximum allowed.  I need real proof, not a Pats Jr equipment guys swag Txt saying it was so.

[Coltsman1788]

It's amazing that some still can't grasp or rather conveniently choose to ignore the fact that "more probable than not" is the standard of proof that the NFL sets on matters pertaining to league violations.  This is not a court of law where the burden of proof is the "preponderance of the evidence" or even "beyond a reasonable doubt". This was a league investigation and based on the findings of the Wells Report the threshold of "more probable than not" was met in terms of the two Patriot equipment guys and Brady was determined to have been generally aware of what was going on.  There is nothing inconclusive about the Wells Report findings. 

 

Kraft and Belicheck were exonerated.  Brady was not.  He will be dealt with by Troy Vincent.  Pat fans need wrap their heads around that and accept it before they end up looking even more foolish in a few days.

 

No player is above the franchise.  If I was a Pat fan, I'd be like Tom mucked up and needs to pay for his actions.  I'd be distancing myself from him and clinging to the fact that my owner, coach and franchise were found to be unaware of  the actions of Brady and his two stooges.  

 

Humbly support your guy while he pays his pentence and stop trying to justify his wrong actions in the midst of the mounting evidence against him.  But I guess that's too much to expect from Pats fans.  Stop hanging on Brady's jock...his balls are sagging.  

[amfootball]

I expect you can support your claim with evidence for a viable source of this transgression?  You know the official PSI for every football is 13psi !!  They allow up to .5 psi less, and .5 psi more.  Every game ball receives the Referees mark that the ball falls within that spec. Every game ball, for both teams. There's no way I believe any game ball was pumped up to 3 psi greater then official limit, and 3.5 psi over maximum allowed.  I need real proof, not a Pats Jr equipment guys swag Txt saying it was so.

I agree 100 percent. Unfortunately the "report" did not give that information - explaining or denying the 16 psi inflation. What it did provide was Brady's texts to his guys telling them to make sure the refs don't pump up the balls that high as they were like bricks to throw. The report never said Brady was wrong about the psi of those balls ...

[amfootball]

no they won't. they don't need concrete proof. The 2008 memo from Goodell explains that. And aa you have pointed out many times in the past, the PA voted to give Roger all the power

Roger has had a history of his punishments being over turned. This one will be a lay up for the PA if he chooses to go heavy. The report  has holes everywhere ...

[Gramz]

THe league is going to have a fight and a half on its hands if they go over the top with punishment based on that report ...

Okay  I'll bite.  What is your idea of "over the top" punishment?

[GoColts8818]

no they won't. they don't need concrete proof. The 2008 memo from Goodell explains that. And aa you have pointed out many times in the past, the PA voted to give Roger all the power

like has been said before this isn't a legal trial where you have to be guilty beyond reasonable doubt. The league can act anytime they feel a rule has been broken. In theory Goodell could have suspended Brady the day after the AFCCG. However, being responsible he ordered an investsgation to uncover what happened. What that has uncovered is that while there might not be a smoking gun there is a whole lot of evidence that suggests there was a smoking gun and that just about any logical person can reach that conclusion when they looked at all that was found.

Also just building on your point not disagreeing with anything you said.

[jvan1973]

Roger has had a history of his punishments being over turned. This one will be a lay up for the PA if he chooses to go heavy. The report has holes everywhere ...

The PA can't even get Adrian Peterson back on the field . He was convicted of a misdemeanor.

Greg Hardy is about to miss more games and his conviction was overturned

Mickey loomis and Sean Payton missed a year with nothing tying either to bountugate.

The punishment for Brady and the pats will be harsh

[ricker182]

What cover up? The Pats said they did not tamper with the balls and the report was ultimately inconclusive.

Inconclusive? More probable than not is guilty in the league's eyes. That's what they were investigating. More probable than not or not probable.

[amfootball]

The PA can't even get Adrian Peterson back on the field . He was convicted of a misdemeanor.

Greg Hardy is about to miss more games and his conviction was overturned

Mickey loomis and Sean Payton missed a year with nothing tying either to bountugate.

The punishment for Brady and the pats will be harsh

 

 

Based on some of the NFL’s recent investigations, expect NFL commissioner Roger Goodell’s response to the New England Patriots’ ball scandal to be tepid, writes Yahoo Sports’ Charles Robinson. Lower-level personnel will bear the brunt of the punishment, and the league will most likely fall short of charging the franchise with a mortal sin. Brady? That’s where things get complicated. But what Goodell does have is this: Brady refused to cooperate when asked to turn over phone communications. And if the league wants to take the broad view of that action, it could say Brady hindered the investigation.

However, “more probable,” “generally” and “unlikely” are three huge qualifiers that scream at the lack of a smoking gun when it comes to Brady. And it’s a far cry from being able to say that he orchestrated the entire thing. Goodell clearly will have to do something, but he’s armed with a report that has some significant limitations. If he steps too far, he risks a union-backed fistfight with arguably the league’s biggest superstar.

 

http://yahoonewsdigest-us.tumblr.com/post/118388741489/deflate-gate-dont-expect-harsh-punishment-for

[GoColts8818]

Okay  I'll bite.  What is your idea of "over the top" punishment?

I think Pats fans should be glad Goodell and not Colts fans are handling this.  Anything less than blood isn't going to be enough for Colts fans.

[ricker182]

It's amazing that some still can't grasp or rather conveniently choose to ignore the fact that "more probable than not" is the standard of proof that the NFL sets on matters pertaining to league violations.  This is not a court of law where the burden of proof is the "preponderance of the evidence" or even "beyond a reasonable doubt". This was a league investigation and based on the findings of the Wells Report the threshold of "more probable than not" was met in terms of the two Patriot equipment guys and Brady was determined to have been generally aware of what was going on.  There is nothing inconclusive about the Wells Report findings. 

 

Kraft and Belicheck were exonerated.  Brady was not.  He will be dealt with by Troy Vincent.  Pat fans need wrap their heads around that and accept it before they end up looking even more foolish in a few days.

 

No player is above the franchise.  If I was a Pat fan, I'd be like Tom mucked up and needs to pay for his actions.  I'd be distancing myself from him and clinging to the fact that my owner, coach and franchise were found to be unaware of  the actions of Brady and his two stooges.  

 

Humbly support your guy while he pays his pentence and stop trying to justify his wrong actions in the midst of the mounting evidence against him.  But I guess that's too much to expect from Pats fans.  Stop hanging on Brady's jock...his balls are sagging.  

Exactly. They weren't investigating "without any doubt". That's not how the league works.  

  

People need to quit calling the report "inconclusive" because it definitely was not.  

I have a feeling those people didn't actually read the report, just turn their ears to their favorite talking heads. Critical thinking in this country has always been a problem and it's really showing in a lot of sports fans right now.

[Gramz]

I think Pats fans should be glad Goodell and not Colts fans are handling this.  Anything less than blood isn't going to be enough for Colts fans.

Agree.  I've said all along, I believe he'll get a 4 game suspension, and I think that is fair.

 

and btw... thanks for responding.   a certain someone on here has not answered one question I've asked her today.

[ricker182]

 

 

http://yahoonewsdigest-us.tumblr.com/post/118388741489/deflate-gate-dont-expect-harsh-punishment-for

A TUMBLR?!?!?! SERIOUSLY?!?!?!  

It doesn't even say who wrote that blog post.

[jvan1973]

Based on some of the NFL’s recent investigations, expect NFL commissioner Roger Goodell’s response to the New England Patriots’ ball scandal to be tepid, writes Yahoo Sports’ Charles Robinson. Lower-level personnel will bear the brunt of the punishment, and the league will most likely fall short of charging the franchise with a mortal sin. Brady? That’s where things get complicated. But what Goodell does have is this: Brady refused to cooperate when asked to turn over phone communications. And if the league wants to take the broad view of that action, it could say Brady hindered the investigation.

However, “more probable,” “generally” and “unlikely” are three huge qualifiers that scream at the lack of a smoking gun when it comes to Brady. And it’s a far cry from being able to say that he orchestrated the entire thing. Goodell clearly will have to do something, but he’s armed with a report that has some significant limitations. If he steps too far, he risks a union-backed fistfight with arguably the league’s biggest superstar.

http://yahoonewsdigest-us.tumblr.com/post/118388741489/deflate-gate-dont-expect-harsh-punishment-for

keep telling yourself that. lol

[amfootball]

keep telling yourself that. lol

It will happen if they go heavy with Brady. PA will be all over it and it will be a lay up for them ...

[amfootball]

A TUMBLR?!?!?! SERIOUSLY?!?!?!  

It doesn't even say who wrote that blog post.

Those sentiments are all over the Internet. I just picked that article because it was the most succinct.

[jvan1973]

It will happen if they go heavy with Brady. PA will be all over it and it will be a lay up for them ...

I don't think you understand how mediation works.

[ricker182]

Those sentiments are all over the Internet. I just picked that article because it was the most succinct.

That's a blog, not an article.

There's a huge group of people who think 9/11 was an inside job. Doesn't make it anymore true.