5 time champion Charles Haley says Tom Brady's titles are tainted.

[Jaric]

yeah you could interpret it that way. It can go both ways. Which is why Bill said he misinterpreted the rule and gave in to the NFL wishes/fines since they are sole arbitrator.

 

So Bill gets the memo- ok.   reads the rule ok.

 

 

A memo is tricky. A rule would have to be amended by who writes the rules in this case the rules comm. Not Goodell.

 

Rozelle would have simply called the Patriots and tell them to stop.

I miss Tags.

[-JJ-]

I miss Tags.

Not that I dislike Goodell as a person... he's just a mess in this new age.  Tags was more direct.

 

At ant rate they didn't cheat- unless they could use it during the game but that looks silly because the Jets are waving.

 

Actually it should be called camera gate, Spying for signals was legal. Still is except their are no more signals lol.

[Jaric]

Not that I dislike Goodell as a person... he's just a mess in this new age.  Tags was more direct.

I am not a fan of the Ginger Hammer.

[ViriLudant]

I am not a fan of the Ginger Hammer.

Did you watch the Hitler video?

[GwinnettColt]

He didn't have to say it.  We already know that they are.  People remember these things that seem so minor at the time.  

[BloodyChamp]

OMG the 2nd biggest talk on this forum besides the SB latley was the injustice of him not being in the HoF, his disorder, etc. But now that he took a deuce on Brady he's a nut job and overrated.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

What Haley said is not exactly Breaking News,lol.

But the more players, coaches, executives that come out publicly the better.

This Behavior by the cheaters cannot be tolerated any more.

It's Bad for the Shield!

[ViriLudant]

Jerry Rice admits that Stickum was actually illegal when he used it.

80's and 90's 49ers = ***

[ViriLudant]

What Haley said is not exactly Breaking News,lol.

But the more players, coaches, executives that come out publicly the better.

This Behavior by the cheaters cannot be tolerated any more.

It's Bad for the Shield!

What behavior? You mean the Colts possibly deflating a ball to implicate the Patriots? Yep, that can't be tolerated.

[Gramz]

But Mommy look at what Bobby did.   

[ViriLudant]

But Mommy look at what Bobby did.

The hypocrisy is that Rice is one of those former players that LJ above wants to speak out.

Yet Rice is an admitted cheater. In fact, he has since taken down Tweets because of his admitted cheating .

Never mind that nothing has been proven about the Patriots at all.

[Ant Ave]

yeah you could interpret it that way. It can go both ways. Which is why Bill said he misinterpreted the rule and gave in to the NFL wishes/fines since they are sole arbitrator.

 

So Bill gets the memo- ok.   reads the rule ok.

 

 

A memo is tricky. A rule would have to be amended by who writes the rules in this case the rules comm. Not Goodell.

 

Rozelle would have simply called the Patriots and tell them to stop.

 

Agree 100% ...Tagliubue would have done the same.

[Gramz]

The hypocrisy is that Rice is one of those former players that LJ above wants to speak out.

Yet Rice is an admitted cheater. In fact, he has since taken down Tweets because of his admitted cheating .

Never mind that nothing has been proven about the Patriots at all.

Yes, I know.   And my comment wasn't directed at anyone in particular.

 

It just seems to be a pattern here, and I have probably been guilty myself on occasion,  I just find it humorous every time someone is "accused" of something,  there immediately needs to be other incidents, whether relevant or not,  brought into discussions.  Reminds me of a kid getting caught red handed and wanting to remind mom that his brother isn't exactly an angel.   :GoodBad:

[pacolts56]

Dungy had a cheater as a DC. Or is lip reading an acceptable form of cheating ?

So that was the secret of Ron Meeks' dominant defense, huh?

 

[numbercrunch]

After a series of articles by Warren Sharp concerning the New England Patriots unusually low rate of fumbling since 2007, I looked at Tom Brady's regular season passer ratings and found something equally interesting. From 2001-2006 Brady had an average passer rating of 88.5 and a touchdown to interception ratio of 1.9/1.

From 2007-1014 (discounting the 2008 season when Brady was hurt) the numbers improved to an average rating of 101.8 and a touchdown to interception ratio of 3.8 to 1.

In contrast, the average quarterback rating for the entire league was 81.3 for the period 2001-2006 and 85.5 for 2007-2014.

During the 2001-2006 period, Brady fumbled about 0.32 times per sack, and during the 2007-2014 period, he only fumbled about 0.20 times per sack.

As Sharp discovered, the team's overall fumbling numbers also have decreased since 2007. From 2001-2006, they fumbled an average of 7.3 times per season on rushing plays and about an average of 4.2 times per season on pass receiving plays. From 2007 on, they averaged 4.4 fumbles rushing per season and 3.4 fumbles per season for pass receiving.

On kick and punt returns, the fumble numbers were relatively unchanged, about 3.2 per season for 2001-2006 and about 3 per season for 2007-2014. It should be noted that on kicking plays, a ball called the K-ball is used and this is secured by an official. Since 2007 footballs used on plays from scrimmage have been supplied by the team on offense.

From 2001-2006 the Patriots averaged about 24 points per game, and from 2007-2014 (discounting 2008) they averaged 31.4 points per game.

Ironically, 2007 was also the year when the Patriots were caught taping opponents' defensive signals in violation of league rules. Presumably the practice stopped that season.

Clearly though, something happened in 2007 that radically improved the Patriots offensive game. Part of it may have been due to improvements in personnel, but even in 2010 and 2013, when the Patriots didn't have a receiver in the top 20 in reception yards, Brady still managed a combined average passer rating of about 99.2, much higher than his average for 2001-2006.

You can make whatever you want to of the numbers, but it will be interesting to see what happens in 2015, as the league is likely to be more vigilant concerning ball security, and whether or not this has any impact on the rate of turnovers for all teams.

Sources for this material include NFL.com, Wikipedia.com and ESPN.com.
 
 

[Kyle]

I am sure Brady is just crushed.

nope, he probably isn't.  The Pats cheated, got away with it, and they don't care.

[ViriLudant]

After a series of articles by Warren Sharp concerning the New England Patriots unusually low rate of fumbling since 2007, I looked at Tom Brady's regular season passer ratings and found something equally interesting. From 2001-2006 Brady had an average passer rating of 88.5 and a touchdown to interception ratio of 1.9/1.

From 2007-1014 (discounting the 2008 season when Brady was hurt) the numbers improved to an average rating of 101.8 and a touchdown to interception ratio of 3.8 to 1.

In contrast, the average quarterback rating for the entire league was 81.3 for the period 2001-2006 and 85.5 for 2007-2014.

During the 2001-2006 period, Brady fumbled about 0.32 times per sack, and during the 2007-2014 period, he only fumbled about 0.20 times per sack.

As Sharp discovered, the team's overall fumbling numbers also have decreased since 2007. From 2001-2006, they fumbled an average of 7.3 times per season on rushing plays and about an average of 4.2 times per season on pass receiving plays. From 2007 on, they averaged 4.4 fumbles rushing per season and 3.4 fumbles per season for pass receiving.

On kick and punt returns, the fumble numbers were relatively unchanged, about 3.2 per season for 2001-2006 and about 3 per season for 2007-2014. It should be noted that on kicking plays, a ball called the K-ball is used and this is secured by an official. Since 2007 footballs used on plays from scrimmage have been supplied by the team on offense.

From 2001-2006 the Patriots averaged about 24 points per game, and from 2007-2014 (discounting 2008) they averaged 31.4 points per game.

Ironically, 2007 was also the year when the Patriots were caught taping opponents' defensive signals in violation of league rules. Presumably the practice stopped that season.

Clearly though, something happened in 2007 that radically improved the Patriots offensive game. Part of it may have been due to improvements in personnel, but even in 2010 and 2013, when the Patriots didn't have a receiver in the top 20 in reception yards, Brady still managed a combined average passer rating of about 99.2, much higher than his average for 2001-2006.

You can make whatever you want to of the numbers, but it will be interesting to see what happens in 2015, as the league is likely to be more vigilant concerning ball security, and whether or not this has any impact on the rate of turnovers for all teams.

Sources for this material include NFL.com, Wikipedia.com and ESPN.com.

*GASP* and it has nothing to do with how the Patriots' offense upgraded its personnel!

Yep, bringing in Moss, Welker, etc, has NOTHING to do with why Brady's INT #'s went down .

Or the mere fact that most good NFL QBs get better over time. Or do you think that Luck will continue to average 22 TOs per season?

Btw, you do realize that teams don't hold onto the punting / kickoff balls, right?

Gee, why didn't any other defender ever notice these deflated balls? OR THE REFS?!?!

The refs handle every ball, and yet they never detected this?!?!?!

Yeah, well-thought out arguments .

[Fx Stryker]

Haley is more than a nut job...

The guy took a dump in teammates cars, he repeatedly exposed himself in meetings and also.... pleasured himself... in the presence of others in the locker room, out in the open.

Hes a total mental case

So did Greg Maddux... Are you saying one of the greatest pitchers of all-time's word, talking baseball of course, would mean nothing because he is a weird, demented person?

[JerodMayo51]

So did Greg Maddux... Are you saying one of the greatest pitchers of all-time's word, talking baseball of course, would mean nothing because he is a weird, demented person?

Yea that's exactly what I'm saying. Haley isn't what anyone with any shred of common sense or decency would call a credible source.

It's also funny that as the Patriots approach or pass other players/teams historic records and ahcievements, the players from that era run to the media and cry foul.

One of the more recent and funnier examples was from Jerry Rice who has been on an anti-Patriot agenda all season long and comparing Brady and Montana. . And was giving his 2 cents on cheating, etc acting like he's the moral police. . Only to find out from his own admittance that he used stickum throughout his career, a subtance banned in 1981..

Where do these people get the nerve? It's truly remarkable how flawed we are as a species and how incredibly self serving and aelf-righteous many people are.

[Surge89]

*GASP* and it has nothing to do with how the Patriots' offense upgraded its personnel!

Yep, bringing in Moss, Welker, etc, has NOTHING to do with why Brady's INT #'s went down .

Or the mere fact that most good NFL QBs get better over time. Or do you think that Luck will continue to average 22 TOs per season?

Btw, you do realize that teams don't hold onto the punting / kickoff balls, right?

Gee, why didn't any other defender ever notice these deflated balls? OR THE REFS?!?!

The refs handle every ball, and yet they never detected this?!?!?!

Yeah, well-thought out arguments .

 

 

So because Brady is so much of a God that he unlike everyone else in the league who routinely betters their rosters has a legitimate reason for his numbers being much higher than anything he has ever put in his football career?

 

The refs were ready and willing to put the previous games inflation issues under the rug... To me it seemed like it has been status quo for a while.  More of an issue of lets just not mess with it not worth the time.  Then again I'm just offering counter arguments because you have done so.  It's very easy to go back and forth on this so why not just the league handle it?  We all have opinions...

 

While you see us as throwing stones from glass houses, we see it as an act that "could"  (huge key word here) have impacted a ton of games over the past 7 years.  Whether or not the teams have been cheating or what not when someone is caught regardless if it is the Patriots or whom else they should be reprimanded.  Plus what harms the Patriots claims are the statistics pointing to anomalies that are extremely hard to explain.  If upgrading your roster is an easy way of reducing fumbles, or increasing QBR, or what not then shouldn't we have seen the exact similar trends from other teams, instead of just seeing a 1/16000 chance occurrence in comparison to the rest of the NFL?

[amfootball]

So because Brady is so much of a God that he unlike everyone else in the league who routinely betters their rosters has a legitimate reason for his numbers being much higher than anything he has ever put in his football career?

 

The refs were ready and willing to put the previous games inflation issues under the rug... To me it seemed like it has been status quo for a while.  More of an issue of lets just not mess with it not worth the time.  Then again I'm just offering counter arguments because you have done so.  It's very easy to go back and forth on this so why not just the league handle it?  We all have opinions...

 

While you see us as throwing stones from glass houses, we see it as an act that "could"  (huge key word here) have impacted a ton of games over the past 7 years.  Whether or not the teams have been cheating or what not when someone is caught regardless if it is the Patriots or whom else they should be reprimanded.  Plus what harms the Patriots claims are the statistics pointing to anomalies that are extremely hard to explain.  If upgrading your roster is an easy way of reducing fumbles, or increasing QBR, or what not then shouldn't we have seen the exact similar trends from other teams, instead of just seeing a 1/16000 chance occurrence in comparison to the rest of the NFL?

Really you could look at the Pats anywhere across the board and see statistical anomalies because they have been the best team in the league for a decade and a half. Their consistency has been unmatched by any other organization for this period of time. If you want to chalk it up to air in footballs that is your right to your opinion but I believe it has much more to do with how the organization is run from its owner to GM/coach to the players.

[ViriLudant]

So because Brady is so much of a God that he unlike everyone else in the league who routinely betters their rosters has a legitimate reason for his numbers being much higher than anything he has ever put in his football career?

The refs were ready and willing to put the previous games inflation issues under the rug... To me it seemed like it has been status quo for a while. More of an issue of lets just not mess with it not worth the time. Then again I'm just offering counter arguments because you have done so. It's very easy to go back and forth on this so why not just the league handle it? We all have opinions...

While you see us as throwing stones from glass houses, we see it as an act that "could" (huge key word here) have impacted a ton of games over the past 7 years. Whether or not the teams have been cheating or what not when someone is caught regardless if it is the Patriots or whom else they should be reprimanded. Plus what harms the Patriots claims are the statistics pointing to anomalies that are extremely hard to explain. If upgrading your roster is an easy way of reducing fumbles, or increasing QBR, or what not then shouldn't we have seen the exact similar trends from other teams, instead of just seeing a 1/16000 chance occurrence in comparison to the rest of the NFL?

Here's your MAJOR issue:

No other teams found issues with the inflation of Patriots' footballs.

Not once.

The ONLY "deflated" ball was in Colts' hands. The only one.

[Surge89]

Here's your MAJOR issue:

No other teams found issues with the inflation of Patriots' footballs.

Not once.

The ONLY "deflated" ball was in Colts' hands. The only one.

Agreed. And in all honesty it could've very well been a Colt tampering and should be reprimanded. The issue there though of course is why? You are trying to tell me that someone went out of their way to deflate 12 balls or just one if we chalk it to weather AND accuse an organization that has tons of ties with the league and NFLPA, risk millions of dollars in salary and fines (also ruining their name as I doubt any team would sign then after) just so the Patriots could be distracted before their superbowl???

That seems more far fetched than the latter. Again I don't know but I'm almost 90% sure this will end with inconclusive evidence and never be talked about again in the media so it's moot lol...

The whole point and while I quoted you it was directed to both you and colts fans is shouldn't we just leave it to the NFL? The back and forth is more in I'll spirits than discussion.

[JerodMayo51]

So because Brady is so much of a God that he unlike everyone else in the league who routinely betters their rosters has a legitimate reason for his numbers being much higher than anything he has ever put in his football career?

 

The refs were ready and willing to put the previous games inflation issues under the rug... To me it seemed like it has been status quo for a while.  More of an issue of lets just not mess with it not worth the time.  Then again I'm just offering counter arguments because you have done so.  It's very easy to go back and forth on this so why not just the league handle it?  We all have opinions...

 

While you see us as throwing stones from glass houses, we see it as an act that "could"  (huge key word here) have impacted a ton of games over the past 7 years.  Whether or not the teams have been cheating or what not when someone is caught regardless if it is the Patriots or whom else they should be reprimanded.  Plus what harms the Patriots claims are the statistics pointing to anomalies that are extremely hard to explain.  If upgrading your roster is an easy way of reducing fumbles, or increasing QBR, or what not then shouldn't we have seen the exact similar trends from other teams, instead of just seeing a 1/16000 chance occurrence in comparison to the rest of the NFL?

 

 

You're putting too much weight into that article written that described the Patriots fumble statistics compared to the rest of the league.  The person doing that analysis didn't even measure it properly, they completely removed dome teams rather than just remove games played in a dome and nit picked the stats he wanted to in order to get the results to match his theory/agenda.

 

The story has been debunked and proven incredibly inaccurate, and once the actual numbers were crunched properly, the Patriots were right in the range of everyone else that has had a good turnover differential in that time period

 

[-JJ-]

You're putting too much weight into that article written that described the Patriots fumble statistics compared to the rest of the league.  The person doing that analysis didn't even measure it properly, they completely removed dome teams rather than just remove games played in a dome and nit picked the stats he wanted to in order to get the results to match his theory/agenda.

 

The story has been debunked and proven incredibly inaccurate, and once the actual numbers were crunched properly, the Patriots were right in the range of everyone else that has had a good turnover differential in that time period

 

Stats are good because...well just ask Ridley why he went to the bench.

 

Plus if you knock a ball out you knock it out at 10.5 psi or whatever.  Gimme a break.

 

Unless the RB is carrying it with his fingers it might make a difference lol

[lollygagger8]

As crazy as you want to make Haley out to be, he's right. This SB XLIX (and Brady's others) will forever have asterisks on them for the NE Cheaters.  

 

 

Brady should've given his MVP award to Pete Carroll since Pete handed the SB over to the pats. 

[Jaric]

By the way, this article kinda goes into a bit more detail about what I was talking about earlier regarding Haley being crazy for real. Fair warning, there is quite a bit of "adult language" so don't say you haven't been warned.

http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/2008/08/charles-haley-would-like-you-to-watch-him-*.html

[JerodMayo51]

By the way, this article kinda goes into a bit more detail about what I was talking about earlier regarding Haley being crazy for real. Fair warning, there is quite a bit of "adult language" so don't say you haven't been warned.

http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/2008/08/charles-haley-would-like-you-to-watch-him-*.html

Seems like a real stable guy with a good head on his shoulders lol

A credible source if I ever saw one. I'd feel confident going into any debate knowing that I could fall back on "Well Charles Haley said...."

[Jaric]

Seems like a real stable guy with a good head on his shoulders lol

A credible source if I ever saw one. I'd feel confident going into any debate knowing that I could fall back on "Well Charles Haley said...."

Yeah, he clearly needs medication. (Not joking)

Here's another article detailing Haley. (And again, adult language)

http://deadspin.com/389840/and-toward-me-he-charged-charles-haleys-bananas

[GoPats]

By the way, this article kinda goes into a bit more detail about what I was talking about earlier regarding Haley being crazy for real. Fair warning, there is quite a bit of "adult language" so don't say you haven't been warned.

http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/2008/08/charles-haley-would-like-you-to-watch-him-*.html

 

Well that's... not normal. At all. 

[Fx Stryker]

LClearly though, something happened in 2007 that radically improved the Patriots offensive game.

Yeah the league became cup cake. Players not known to be great passers became great passers from the new rules. Drew Brees, Tom Brady....

[BloodyChamp]

O come on hasn't everybody used human excrement for entertainmemt atleast once lol!

[Jaric]

Well that's... not normal. At all.

Yeah, that behavior is definitely frowned upon at my office.

[GoPats]

Yeah, that behavior is definitely frowned upon at my office.

 

It would be an interesting question to ask when interviewing. 

 

"What are your thoughts on workplace self gratification?" 

[Jaric]

It would be an interesting question to ask when interviewing.

"What are your thoughts on workplace self gratification?"

Pro!

I'm also pro "30 minute nap breaks."

[GoPats]

Pro!

I'm also pro "30 minute nap breaks."

 

Well the two go hand in hand. (Ha!)