Where would Duron Carter rank among WRs in this years draft?

[Dustin]

Let's just say on talent and tape alone. Pretend he has no off the field issues and that his CFL tape is his college tape. Where would he rank? 

[PrincetonTiger]

Pretty High

[Mr.Debonair]

That's a good question

[The Peytonator]

5th round

[Everyone]

I'm not going to pretend to know where he'd rank but Matt Miller has a pretty high opinion of him.

[COLTS449]

I'd say a late 1st or a 2nd rounder. I think he's going to be a very, very good WR. I know its the Canada league and all that, but he does look good in some of those highlight videos I've seen.

[Valpo2004]

It's hard to say.  Don't get your hopes up too high.

[Gavin]

Probably 3rd round

[Iancolts]

Carter is a gamble at best. People like him because of his dad. Carter to be is a 5-6 rounder.

[NewColtsFan]

I think the problem is no here knows how to evaluate CFL caliber play?    How good, or NOT good is it?    So it's tough to judge Carter based on his CFL tape.

 

Since no one really knows, but all we read is that few CFL players come into the NFL and become stars (Cameron Wake at Miami?)  it feels like we're talking about a 4th to 6th rounder.

 

That's not to say he might not way out perform that.    The kid was courted by all the top schools....  and I think spent a few minutes at Alabama.     So, no questions he's got talent.    The questions are "how much talent?"  and "how much polishing is still needed to bring out all that talent?"

[AntonMcG]

He is similar in many ways to Dorial Green-Beckham, so that may be a good gauge, though I think DGB is better.

 

Top of the third I would imagine.

[Dark Superman]

Put him with Luck and he will be a first round talent.

Put him with Bridgewater and he will look like Da'Rick Rogers.

[Dark Superman]

5th round

Yeah that's a joke.

[Dark Superman]

Probably 3rd round

He's got the potential to be our #1

[akcolt]

If he could have made it on a college field we'd have an idea that alone should tell you something I reallly hope this kid is someone else's headache

[Gavin]

He's got the potential to be our #1

Draft status or ranking don't dictate if your capable of being a #1 wr, I question his speed but I do really like his tackle breaking ability

[NewColtsFan]

He's got the potential to be our #1

 

Goodness gracious....    Seriously?

 

What has he done that would give you any idea that he's more than our #3?

 

Did you know that the Colts have a WR named TY Hilton?     How about Dante Moncrief?

 

What has Carter done to make you think he could be BETTER than them?

 

Respectfully,  I think you're thinking with your heart and not your head....

[akcolt]

Why is everyone so high on Carter? The weed? Grades? His daddy? First round talent really

He went undrafted in 2013 then couldn't even make a PS not even daddy's Vikings now he's a top NFL WR

[Manning1887]

I am guessing a late round pick since only a handful of teams expressed interest in signing him.

 

I hope we still consider drafting a player like Phillip Dorsett from Miami if we sign Carter. There are some really good receivers in this draft.

[Dark Superman]

Draft status or ranking don't dictate if your capable of being a #1 wr, I question his speed but I do really like his tackle breaking ability

He looks pretty fast to me..

[Dark Superman]

Goodness gracious....    Seriously?

 

What has he done that would give you any idea that he's more than our #3?

 

Did you know that the Colts have a WR named TY Hilton?     How about Dante Moncrief?

 

What has Carter done to make you think he could be BETTER than them?

 

Respectfully,  I think you're thinking with your heart and not your head....

Respectfully, it would be nice if you could properly spell our players names correctly.

Donte* you're welcome.

[Superman]

Respectfully, it would be nice if you could properly spell our players names correctly.

Donte* you're welcome.

 

Wow.

[Superman]

I think the problem is no here knows how to evaluate CFL caliber play?    How good, or NOT good is it?    So it's tough to judge Carter based on his CFL tape.

 

Since no one really knows, but all we read is that few CFL players come into the NFL and become stars (Cameron Wake at Miami?)  it feels like we're talking about a 4th to 6th rounder.

 

That's not to say he might not way out perform that.    The kid was courted by all the top schools....  and I think spent a few minutes at Alabama.     So, no questions he's got talent.    The questions are "how much talent?"  and "how much polishing is still needed to bring out all that talent?"

 

To me, it's the same as evaluating collegiate play, especially small school players. The differences in the game aren't really important. You're still looking for what the player can and can't do, evaluating his strengths and weaknesses, and seeing how he stacks up against competition. Then you adjust for the level of competition.

 

Me personally, forgetting about the off field stuff and pretending he's just a normal draft prospect, I'd put him in the 9-13 range this year. Behind Jaelen Strong and Sammie Coates, ahead of Nelson Agholar and Josh Harper and Tyler Lockett. I don't think he has exceptional speed or quickness, and he doesn't have a great build. He's long and can explode to high-point the ball, has great hands, understands route running and getting open, though isn't a consistent route runner and doesn't always come out of his breaks cleanly... He's physically talented and plays the position well, but isn't an elite athlete.

 

I'd put him in the 75-90 range.

[Defjamz26]

Why is everyone so high on Carter? The weed? Grades? His daddy? First round talent really

He went undrafted in 2013 then couldn't even make a PS not even daddy's Vikings now he's a top NFL WR

People here are WR crazy. I don't know what the obsession with WRs is with Colts fans. And people talk about Carter as if he's the answer to all our problems. Gimme a cheap FA or a guy from the draft without character concerns.

[Superman]

People here are WR crazy. I don't know what the obsession with WRs is with Colts fans. And people talk about Carter as if he's the answer to all our problems. Gimme a cheap FA or a guy from the draft without character concerns.

 

Nah, it's not being WR crazy. We literally have two receivers with NFL game experience under contract for 2015. Assume we tender Griff Whalen, and it's three, but one of them would be Griff Whalen. Neither of the two veteran free agents -- Wayne and Nicks -- had seasons that would demand that they be re-signed.

 

Receiver is one of the biggest needs on the team, going into the offseason. 

[NewColtsFan]

To me, it's the same as evaluating collegiate play, especially small school players. The differences in the game aren't really important. You're still looking for what the player can and can't do, evaluating his strengths and weaknesses, and seeing how he stacks up against competition. Then you adjust for the level of competition.

 

Me personally, forgetting about the off field stuff and pretending he's just a normal draft prospect, I'd put him in the 9-13 range this year. Behind Jaelen Strong and Sammie Coates, ahead of Nelson Agholar and Josh Harper and Tyler Lockett. I don't think he has exceptional speed or quickness, and he doesn't have a great build. He's long and can explode to high-point the ball, has great hands, understands route running and getting open, though isn't a consistent route runner and doesn't always come out of his breaks cleanly... He's physically talented and plays the position well, but isn't an elite athlete.

 

I'd put him in the 75-90 range.

 

Thanks.   I appreciate the post.    But allow me to think out loud for a bit....   There are certain things I'm not understanding...

 

A few weeks ago you and I discussed here what Carter might command by way of salary and bonus.   And you were saying he's not going to get much of a signing bonus (little guaranteed money) and base pay or a little more than that.    That's my rough recollection of what we talked about.

 

Now, today,  you're saying he's a 3rd round guy (75-90).....   if he's that good,  shouldn't NFL teams be bidding him up?   He's a free agent,  doesn't cost a team a draft pick.   It's just money.    So, if he's as good as some here think (and I'm NOT saying he's not,  and I certainly hope everyone is right)  then why aren't team throwing big money at him?

 

By the way,  I haven't seen tape on Carter since his name first surfaced months ago,  so my rough guess is more on anecdotal information than it is on tape evaluation....

[Superman]

Thanks.   I appreciate the post.    But allow me to think out loud for a bit....   There are certain things I'm not understanding...

 

A few weeks ago you and I discussed here what Carter might command by way of salary and bonus.   And you were saying he's not going to get much of a signing bonus (little guaranteed money) and base pay or a little more than that.    That's my rough recollection of what we talked about.

 

Now, today,  you're saying he's a 3rd round guy (75-90).....   if he's that good,  shouldn't NFL teams be bidding him up?   He's a free agent,  doesn't cost a team a draft pick.   It's just money.    So, if he's as good as some here think (and I'm NOT saying he's not,  and I certainly hope everyone is right)  then why aren't team throwing big money at him?

 

By the way,  I haven't seen tape on Carter since his name first surfaced months ago,  so my rough guess is more on anecdotal information than it is on tape evaluation....

 

He's not a draft pick. He's a free agent coming from another pro league. There's a clear market for these guys. Our own Freeman and Muamba were celebrated CFL players, and both of their contracts are right in line with the market for CFL guys.

 

And not only that, but Dustin's criteria were to forget that he is who he is, and just grade his ability to play the game. That means we're not talking about the fact that he was dismissed from TWO major collegiate programs, we're not talking about the fact that he went undrafted two years ago, and then basically goofed around at tryouts for at least two different teams, etc. We're ignoring all the reasons that he's in the CFL to begin with.

 

Because of those things, I don't think he has a whole lot of leverage. Yes, he's talented, but he also has a history of being a bit of a knucklehead. Maybe he'll get a little bit more of a bonus, but I don't think there's going to be any wild bidding war for him. He's still a guy coming out of the CFL. As of right now, he's only negotiating with two teams.

 

Also, I believe that the total value of the contract is determined by the CBA. The signing bonus is negotiable, but there's a maximum per league rules, and the guaranteed money is negotiable, but the total money and number of years are the same as they would be for a UDFA. I could be wrong about that, but I think they're treated as UDFAs.

[NewColtsFan]

He's not a draft pick. He's a free agent coming from another pro league. There's a clear market for these guys. Our own Freeman and Muamba were celebrated CFL players, and both of their contracts are right in line with the market for CFL guys.

 

And not only that, but Dustin's criteria were to forget that he is who he is, and just grade his ability to play the game. That means we're not talking about the fact that he was dismissed from TWO major collegiate programs, we're not talking about the fact that he went undrafted two years ago, and then basically goofed around at tryouts for at least two different teams, etc. We're ignoring all the reasons that he's in the CFL to begin with.

 

Because of those things, I don't think he has a whole lot of leverage. Yes, he's talented, but he also has a history of being a bit of a knucklehead. Maybe he'll get a little bit more of a bonus, but I don't think there's going to be any wild bidding war for him. He's still a guy coming out of the CFL. As of right now, he's only negotiating with two teams.

 

Also, I believe that the total value of the contract is determined by the CBA. The signing bonus is negotiable, but there's a maximum per league rules, and the guaranteed money is negotiable, but the total money and number of years are the same as they would be for a UDFA. I could be wrong about that, but I think they're treated as UDFAs.

 

Well....   everything was interesting (as always)  but if your last paragraph is true,  then that pretty much trumps all other reasons for not having to pay more in a bidding war?!      If there's a max, per league rules,  then that is that......

 

Thanks again....   always appreciate the good 411...

 

I hope we get the kid and Carter turns out to be all that we hope he can be....

[Superman]

Well....   everything was interesting (as always)  but if your last paragraph is true,  then that pretty much trumps all other reasons for not having to pay more in a bidding war?!      If there's a max, per league rules,  then that is that......

 

Thanks again....   always appreciate the good 411...

 

I hope we get the kid and Carter turns out to be all that we hope he can be....

 

Yup.

 

I was looking at previous CFL signings, and up comes Armond Armstead. He chose the Pats over us a couple years ago, and some of the articles noted that his contract was limited per league rules. I haven't dug through the whole CBA to confirm that, but it seems to hold up. He was a highly touted prospect, despite his health situation, and that's reflected in the fact that the Pats guaranteed half his contract. But the total value and number of years is right in line with a UDFA.

[akcolt]

Nah, it's not being WR crazy. We literally have two receivers with NFL game experience under contract for 2015. Assume we tender Griff Whalen, and it's three, but one of them would be Griff Whalen. Neither of the two veteran free agents -- Wayne and Nicks -- had seasons that would demand that they be re-signed.

Receiver is one of the biggest needs on the team, going into the offseason.

We should bring in a WR then not another head case kid has who happens to have a HOF dad

[Superman]

We should bring in a WR then not another head case kid has who happens to have a HOF dad

 

Have you ever watched him play?

[akcolt]

Highlights same as most. I just don't think character changes Rogers Purifoy keep searching for the gold at the end of the rainbow some talent just can't put it together upstairs and usually they leave a trail that makes it easy to see this one doesn't seem to be to difficult

Give me Crabby or even Nicks back Carter is fools gold. IMO

[Superman]

Highlights same as most. I just don't think character changes Rogers Purifoy keep searching for the gold at the end of the rainbow some talent just can't put it together upstairs and usually they leave a trail that makes it easy to see this one doesn't seem to be to difficult

Give me Crabby or even Nicks back Carter is fools gold. IMO

 

I'm just saying, you said "bring in a WR," as if Carter isn't a WR. He's a pretty good one, to be honest. Not a world beater, but he's good for a CFL free agent.

 

Even if we sign him, it's not like we'd be married to him or forced to rely on him. And it's not like we can't bring in other receivers. We have to fill out a 90 man roster, and we have 8-9 draft picks, and we have free agency and collegiate free agency. Just add talent. I see no need to exclude Duron Carter from that talent pool.

[akcolt]

I'm just saying, you said "bring in a WR," as if Carter isn't a WR. He's a pretty good one, to be honest. Not a world beater, but he's good for a CFL free agent.

Even if we sign him, it's not like we'd be married to him or forced to rely on him. And it's not like we can't bring in other receivers. We have to fill out a 90 man roster, and we have 8-9 draft picks, and we have free agency and collegiate free agency. Just add talent. I see no need to exclude Duron Carter from that talent pool.

I have no problem bringing him in but come on we have posters calling him 1st round talent talking like he's the next someone I'm just saying if you wanna no what your getting 9x out of 10 look at history that says another wasted spot on the roster for talent that will never be realized.

I for one would love to see Crabby with a real QB

[Defjamz26]

Nah, it's not being WR crazy. We literally have two receivers with NFL game experience under contract for 2015. Assume we tender Griff Whalen, and it's three, but one of them would be Griff Whalen. Neither of the two veteran free agents -- Wayne and Nicks -- had seasons that would demand that they be re-signed.

 

Receiver is one of the biggest needs on the team, going into the offseason.

If you're talking depth than definitely. But I don't think we need 1st round talent. Considering Wayne was basically invisible most of the season and Nicks didn't come on until late, we've seen what the offense looks with just T.Y. and Moncrief.

And it isn't bad tbh. Plus you have Fleener and Allen. If we could actually get a run game going, we'd be pretty potent. I'd be fine with a guy like Rashad Green in the 3rd or 4th round, but nothing higher than that.

[Dark Superman]

Wow.

What? I can't stand it! What kills me even more is when people spell it Payton Manning. Absolutely kills me.

[Superman]

I have no problem bringing him in but come on we have posters calling him 1st round talent talking like he's the next someone I'm just saying if you wanna no what your getting 9x out of 10 look at history that says another wasted spot on the roster for talent that will never be realized.

I for one would love to see Crabby with a real QB

 

I'm torn on Crabtree. Haven't formed a strong opinion on that angle, yet.

 

As for Carter, the OP asks posters to evaluate his play, without regard for the off the field stuff. I don't think he's a first round talent, but I didn't think Johnny Manziel was a first round talent, either, just based on his ability to play the position. Either way, the point is, what do you think of his ability to play football, not what do you think of his long-term prospects in the NFL.

 

For what it's worth, I agree that history is against him. If he were a draft prospect, I wouldn't want to spend a third rounder on him because of the off the field stuff. But I do think he has third round talent.

[Superman]

What? I can't stand it! What kills me even more is when people spell it Payton Manning. Absolutely kills me.

 

You just completely left off discussing the topic so you could point out a spelling error. Struck me as odd...

[Superman]

If you're talking depth than definitely. But I don't think we need 1st round talent. Considering Wayne was basically invisible most of the season and Nicks didn't come on until late, we've seen what the offense looks with just T.Y. and Moncrief.

And it isn't bad tbh. Plus you have Fleener and Allen. If we could actually get a run game going, we'd be pretty potent. I'd be fine with a guy like Rashad Green in the 3rd or 4th round, but nothing higher than that.

 

I think it's bad. I think it's 7 points in the championship game bad. And given what we have on the roster, WR is a definite need. It's one of the thinnest positions on the roster.

 

Setting that aside, I don't think that a team should set up their draft board based on what their biggest needs are. Except for in specific situations -- like QB, for instance -- you don't say "we don't need a (blank), so we shouldn't draft one until the fourth round." If you have a need and want a guy who can make a difference right away, you need to sign a free agent. You don't pass up on good players in the draft, and you don't reach for need. You take the best players you can, and you take care of roster mechanics later. Add the best talent, and know that you've made your roster better now and in the long term.

[dgambill]

I'm not high on the kid but I have no problem giving him an incentive laden deal...with tons of clauses/language about staying out of trouble etc. Hard to say where he would land in the draft...mid to late I would imagine...he should have a prove it deal imo.